Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Jeneki
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Jeneki »

Sima Tuna wrote:I had heard good things about it, but Seibu are the Raiden guys, right? I wouldn't have expected them to turn out such an amazing brawler.
When I introduce Zero Team to people, I always bring this up. "It's the Raiden devs, so everything explodes, because reasons."
Typos caused by cat on keyboard.
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Rastan78
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Rastan78 »

I was in the same boat discovering Zero Team. Like wow these guys were good at everything. I guess back in the day though Seibu wasn't really a shmup dev, they just went more down that road later after the huge success of Raiden. As a big Seibu fan, I'm guilty of sleeping on their non shmup output. Of course it's hard when some stuff remained unemulated for so long. Really got to get around to Dynamite Duke one of these days.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Finally got my Saigo guide up, special thanks to jepjepjep and Volteccer_Jack for encouraging me to keep going. :cool: Took a year but I think it came out better for it. :mrgreen:
Last edited by BIL on Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Searchlike
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Searchlike »

BIL wrote: Took a year but I think it came out better for it
Homeric!
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

First I was like Image but then, after another year on the boat throwin' down with evil skeletons and harpies and shit I was Image :mrgreen:

I love Saigo even more now. It's got a rare balance of simple lunar bombardier pleasure and simmering RNG threat, between which lies a simple tactical suite that'll overcome anything, as long as you're quick and decisive enough. Even watching a master like Gachi nomiss it for a live audience (!) (headphones warning, announcer is loud), I can see the spots where his life was suddenly hanging in the balance, his expertise clearing the cheque as razor death shaved past his topknot. Thrilling, splendidly authentic one man army action - there's no plot armour here sonny, when you dead, you dead!

It's a very loving R2RKMFer - no matter how good you are (and you can get very, very good indeed!), it'll never let you off easy. Image Image Image
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

First impression: Sengoku 3 sucks. It has an amazing combat engine, but terrible stage design and some of the most obnoxious enemies and bosses I've ever seen.
Spoiler
Everything in Sengoku 3 randomly becomes invincible and does unreactable attacks on the first frame while standing. They also outrange you. They will combo you for your entire lifebar off a single hit. I had it happen to me. Even superjoy won't save you. Why? Because you get nothing from superjoy.

Imagine this: You get a combo into a knockdown. Ok, now what? If you stand over the body mashing punch (like in many beat em ups), the enemy or boss will stand up with an invincible attack. Ok. So you superjoy on their wakeup attack. Doesn't matter. Odds are strong they will still be able to combo you after the superjoy ends, OR you will knock them down and be in a worse situation than before? Why worse? Because now you're in this fucking superjoy loop, and superjoys do fucking nothing for damage in this game. It's a net loss to your hp whenever you use a superjoy, because the boss can afford the tiny hp loss and you can't.

Stages are just lazy as hell. You walk forwards about 2 inches, then a wave of enemies spawns all at once. Everything spawns in this game, so you can't use any kind of strategy. You can't trigger enemies early or pull enemies around. Enemies in this game all have weapons. Most have a range attack or a weapon that has at least as much range as you do. You do have shuriken, but only 3 per pickup and you lose all shurikens you're carrying if you grab a stack of a different type. Which is BS. It should overwrite your current shuriken type but add to the total amount. Or just add to the total in a combined shuriken pool. Shurikens do no damage unless you spam them or use the bombs. Anyway, stages. You walk forward and get ambushed for the entire game. Sometimes you walk to the left and get ambushed instead. It always feels horrible because you can only scroll the screen a few inches every time you finally get the "go" signal.

Enemies are assholes. Like I said, they have way too many tools. The samurai enemy is Knife Garcia (SoR3) on crack. He becomes fully invincible when doing his knife charge and he does it every time he's not close to you. But he also has sword combos that will take a ton of your health if you mess up even a little in closing distance. Keep in mind this is one of the most common enemies in the game and also one of the most "fair" because he doesn't spam bullshit when waking up. Naginata guys are dicks too. They outrange you unless you're using meter or doing a jump/dash attack. They can combo you for a fuckton of hp from halfway across the screen and I even had one combo me for 50%+ HP while he was entirely offscreen. The blade of his naginata was the only part onscreen and only for a few seconds after he had already killed me. I was mashing against the edge of the screen too. Nope. He doesn't care. Fuck you. So you can't corner these guys because they can hang out offscreen and still outrange you.

Bosses are absurd. They must be some of the most obnoxious I've seen in a beat em up, and I've seen a few. All of them are the same. They have two strategies:

1) Become invincible
2) Do an unreactable move for 50% to 90% of your health bar

I swear these dickheads spend as much time invincible as they do vulnerable, if not more. Shout outs to bosses turning invincibility cheat on IN MID-FUCKING COMBO, so they can combo me back for my entire lifebar! I'm very tilted by that.

Oh yeah, also the frog enemies are pure trolling from the devs. 90% of character moves fly right over their heads. They also attack with a lingering hitbox that stays on the ground to protect them from walk-ups or dash-ins, and they have a perfect, instant anti-air if you jump in. I have no idea what to do with these dickheads other than spam bombs and superjoys.

There are some other asshole enemies (they all are really) but none particularly memorable. They shoot shit at you super fast, or they rush at you while invincible whenever they feel like it, including while you're comboing them (the multiheads love doing that.)

Beat em ups are my favorite genre, but I don't see anything good about this game other than the animation and theoretical possibilities of the engine.

Oh! Forgot to mention hp boxes are a huge bitch. They take a billion hits to break open and you never have a quiet moment to bash them open. That seems especially unkind in a game where most of the hp items don't seem to heal you much anyway, and items disappear off the ground super fast.
Scrub ranting spoilered, feel free to tell me how wrong I am.

On a positive note, Vendetta is a cool game. Brutal how it gives you no superjoy or recovery mechanic, but the levels overall feel well-crafted and enemies, while relentless, are not blatantly unfair... Although I am not a fan of shotgun coat man. You can scroll/progress at a nice pace and the game will give you weapons and health liberally. It just has zero chill if you fuck up, which I can respect.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

I've only played a bit, but I thought Sengoku 3 seemed alright. third_strike's Kongoh no-miss was what piqued my interest, so I probably went in with a more charitable opinion than I might've on a cold start (come to think of it, I was much the same with Sengoku 2 and andsuchisdeath's 1LC)

(Sengoku 2 is a completely and utterly different sort of beater - it and the original Sengoku's antecedent is probably Jaleco's underratedly intense touch-of-deather Takeda Shingen, one of the best post-DD1/pre-FF1 beaters I've played alongside DD2, Crime Fighters and AC Ninja Gaiden).

EDIT: Good gravy, I must've been hammered writing that Takeda Shingen post :shock: Get to the point ya cunt! I recognise that meandering cadence! I stand by it though, AND the Kagemusha stuff! Image
EDIT2: Oh haha, I'd freshened up for Part II. All good then. Don't abuse yourself too often lads, it's bad for you. Image

I'm more into Double Dragon Advance's reserved combos, where you can tag a couple more bone-crushing hits onto that uppercut or soccer kick (or hell, even arcade DD1's grapple infinites - nice and gritty, knee-bashing the fuck out of zako until their HP's gone before executing them with a parting elbow... rehabilitating DD1 from a Three Stooges simulator into a respectable martial arts game is an entire thread unto itself actually, I'll stop there :mrgreen:). So some of the more "ninja" characters' extended combos aren't quite to my taste. I really like Kongoh's brutal take on grappling though. A couple punishing shots to the body and that Splatterhouse-worthy baseball swing to the dome, I can do that all day. Image

I dunno, not a game I'm compelled (or even equipped) to have strong opinions on one way or another, but I'm looking forward to revisiting it sometime.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

Playing Sengoku 3 and having such a negative impression of it actually makes me want to play Sengoku 2 more. It's just a suspicion based on some gameplay footage I've seen, but I bet Sengoku 2 is closer to my idea of a good beat em up. I noticed enemies die almost instantly in Sen 2, which is the polar opposite of the hp sponges with invincibility hax that you get in the third.

Playing Kongou probably does make help reduce the tedium of Sengoku 3, assuming Kongou deals the highest damage per strike. That would reduce the need to do endlessly long chain combos on every. Single. Enemy. I've looked at 1cc videos of Sengoku 3 and I saw a lot of people abusing dash uppercut -> single jab over and over and over and over. Does that sound like a fun time to you? :lol: I could see myself learning Vendetta or Final Fight well enough to 1cc them someday, but not Sengoku 3. Game is long as fuck too.
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Sumez
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Sengoku 2 is really weird, I think it's barely a beat'em up. I have no idea what's going on in the game from the little I played.
Seems like it's mostly a lot of memorizing specific patterns and how to deal with them.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Sengoku 2 is (almost literally) all about the charge shot. Ready, nock, loose! ("Aieee!") Repeat! Again! Image You can massacre enemy waves and shut down bosses to obscene degrees, if you master the slightly tricky timing. Furthest I've gone on a credit is the onslaught that opens the last stage - was wondering "Hmm, is this the charge shot's limit -" NO LMAO, start bussin the instant you hit the ground and those doggos are SOL.

Kinda daft, but I can't deny the simple violent pleasure of cramming in chargers as screenloads of baddies do the Already Dead.

Takeda Shingen is worth a look for anyone who digs Sengoku 2 (or from what I've seen Sengoku 1). Similar concept of katana-based beltscrolling, where individual hits take ruinous tolls, and pokes aren't so much for setting up combos as doing headshot damage in their own right. It's just a shame its sprites are nowhere as strong as Technos, Konami or Tecmo's (or hell even SNK's) contemporary beaters - it's actually got a killer Warring States atmosphere, reminiscent of The Last Blade 2's grimmer stages, with the same sparely ominous BGM. Actually, the thought of this mortal action with LB2-calibre visuals is givin me a mahfuckin chub :shock:

Image Image

Image

Might be something for a rainy day ROMhack. :o
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Sir Ilpalazzo
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

I've been playing a lot of Assault Suits Leynos lately, both the original and the remake.

My initial opinion on the game was a lot more reserved, but I've come to enjoy it more upon this revisit. I'm just as impressed as ever by its strong setpieces, aesthetics (love those enemy destruction animations), variety, and the Assault Suits' series customary booster handling and slow aiming controls. And the gear progression system that strongly encourages you to score well and complete mission objectives properly is a great touch. Even now I can't get over how cool stage 3 is, the space battle that evolves over time as you understand more of the game's systems - going from hiding behind the allied dropships in measured ways, using their firepower to fight back against enemy hordes without letting them take too much damage - to working out how to take on the enemy warship effectively, and timing its destruction to milk the most points out of the stage.

The game definitely has its flaws. The randomness of enemy spawns does create for some fun situations, but it can at times be so chaotic that you end up forced into a defensive holding pattern that isn't that fun to have to deal with. And some of the bosses are more or less just damage races, though some of these (like the stage 3 warship) still end up being exciting in some way - the warship is more or less a damage race where you have to gamble how late you want to disengage and still be able to make it out of the encroaching enemy horde after, which is enjoyable.

It's an undeniably messy game, but I've come to enjoy it a lot more after learning to consistently clear it. Despite its foibles, it's not so random that it can't be reliably hammered down.

-

The remake is stellar, unsurprisingly. It naturally marries the Genesis game's excitement and cool setpieces with Valken's greater degree of player control, which does make it undoubtedly easier than the original - though not in an unpleasant way. The remake is a total joy to maneuver in, and it still retains the Genesis game's excitement and intensity.

It's definitely most enjoyable on classic hard mode. Arcade mode is cool, but its action and enemy density are very restrained compared to the original game, and I think the Valken homages are laid on a little thick for my liking (I don't like what's done with the enemy commander's death scene either for the same reason). Classic mode, which is nearly 1:1 identical to the original game in its stage layouts, is much more exciting. Hard mode's primary addition - your maximum health being progressively reduced as you take damage - is a great one, which keeps the player from wanting to camp or play overly defensively, while this game's new defensive option (the shield) keeps things from getting so random or uncontrollable that that penalty is excessive. (I also think the game is very much at its best when played with the optional toggle that lets you turn on limited durability for your shield as in Gigantic Army. It's unfortunate that that isn't on by default, as it adds a lot to the game.)

Though the remake is better than the Genesis game, I think it doesn't completely capture all of the original's appeal. The enemy spawning is slightly off - the Genesis game trickles enemies on throughout the stage, but several levels in the remake seem to have a large blob of enemies preset in the stage at the start (often close to the level's beginning point) and then starts trickling enemies in as those are dealt with.

And levels in the remake are basically just as big as they were in the original, despite your increased movement speed and mobility options, which makes some segments feel smaller and diminishes their dramatic impact - the climb up stage 6's fortress wall and especially the battle through the enemy fleet in the final stage both feel much less weighty than they did in the original because of this. Some of the bosses are a little shaky too; the stage 3 warship is now far too weak, the battle with your rival Lance in stage 6 should be better than the original - if it weren't for how little HP Lance has, which means he never gets a chance to properly use his more interesting attack patterns and ends up as a less climactic fight than the original game's equivalent. (Bosses have higher HP in arcade mode, though, which makes this fight feel more like it should.)

I think the gear progression ends up feeling a bit less cool in the remake. The Genesis version having you unlock the all-important booster partway through the game makes for an interesting midgame mobility upgrade (which you can earn earlier if you work for it), the stronger variant of the rocket launcher is typically unlocked at a good time, the shield appearing as effectively the game's final upgrade gives the player a strong incentive to make sure to unlock it by stage 8. The remake is a bit flatter in this regard; you unlock most of what you want to use early on and don't end up changing your equipment as much throughout the game, though it's at least still worthwhile to keep pushing your score so you can get the stronger machine gun in time for the dangerous first Lance battle in the final stage.

The Leynos remake is awesome and has become one of my favorite sidescrolling action games. But I've developed a strong appreciation for the Genesis original, too - I think I still prefer Valken for its even stronger setpieces and variety, even if its difficulty is much lower and its combat generally less exciting, but I wouldn't rate Valken over Leynos by much - and it's interesting to see how the remake doesn't more or less entirely obsolete the original as I initially thought.

--

I do have a question about Assault Suits Leynos 2, for anyone who's played enough of it to be able to answer. It is, predictably, about stage 4, the escort mission. I've beaten the game a couple times, and I have a reasonable idea of how to deal with this stage and reliably protect the tanker - but there's one big sticking point at the end. The stage ends on a pseudo-boss fight with a group of aerial assault suits, and typically as soon as you kill them all the stage ends. But something like 70% of the time, one of the enemies ends up leaving the screen borders and then never comes back. If this happens, the tanker you're protecting ends up driving off the edge of the screen and then explodes on its own several seconds later, killing you and forcing a restart.

The only resource of information I've found on the game online - a guide on GameFAQs' message boards - mentions this and considers it a bug, which seems accurate. My question is: first, does this happen on actual hardware, or is it some kind of emulation-only issue? And second, is there at least some reliable way to immediately shoot down the enemies as soon as they show up to prevent it from happening? It's a frustrating element that unfortunately keeps me from wanting to go for a proper no-death run of the game.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Great reviews, marked for index! I was pleasantly surprised by Dracue's Leynos remake. It does benefit from the Classic Hard tweaks you mention, imo - the upped difficulty balances out the hybrid of ASL1's open-plan stages and Valken's much more generous mechanics. I'll always regard Masaya's Assault Suits trilogy as a tragic masterpiece... they're less an evolving series, than a near-perfect mecha sidescroller split into three (ASL1's ruthlessly unknowable battlefields, ASV's seamlessly titanic cinema, and ASL2's rocketing arcade/sim handling and weapons/radar systems).

And then 11th hour finale Valken 2 was a turn-based strategy. Image :lol:

Ah, the infamous Leynos 2 tanker escort. It's been years, but I distinctly recall it being possible to have fuckeries like you describe occur on hardware... at the time, I was pretty unimpressed, and nailed down a method for consistently killing all the bastards before they could get away, but it escapes me atm. I seem to recall triggering the fight early by boosting ahead of the convoy helping. Apologies, I'll go back and check my notes to see if I wrote something down.
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Sir Ilpalazzo
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Disappointing to learn that the game really is flawed in that way, but somewhat relieving to know I'm not playing a compromised version, at least. It's annoyingly harsh for the entire run to be decided by a two- or three-second span of gameplay based around such a dodgy thing, but as long as it can be taken down reliably and reasonably, I guess it's not unacceptable.

I like Leynos 2 but it doesn't quite hit as hard as Leynos, its remake, or Valken. A huge part of Assault Suits' appeal to me lies in the series' idiosyncratic aiming and hovering controls, so Leynos 2 sidestepping that by having combat be centered around autoaim / lockon, and the per-weapon camera-zoom mechanic gives the game a very different feel from the others. I think the increased focus on weapon management (and the pre-mission outfitting of your mech) is enjoyable in its own way, but I don't find it quite as appealing.

The level design is lacking too. First, in terms of spectacle - the game has less exciting setpieces than even the original Leynos - and in terms of conveying interesting action to the player. Most stages in the game are featureless plains without any real kind of terrain variation (the only exception is stage 2, which feels like the skeleton of a great Assault Suits stage - but even it is only something like 40 seconds long). The space battle that makes up stage 5 especially pales in comparison to previous games - Leynos's space battle is interestingly multilayered, with its shuttle escort targets that can be used for defense, the earth's atmosphere that acts as a potential weapon, and the warship boss acting as an optional high-value target to shoot for. Leynos 2's space battle is much flatter in comparison, featuring only a few mild enemies and no real interesting environmental elements or mid-mission changes.

I'd be okay with more simplistic level design if it existed to facilitate more in-depth combat, but Leynos 2 isn't really an improvement over the previous games in that regard. I do appreciate that the game heavily emphasizes high-performing play via locking stronger weapons behind high mission scores, but I think survival play suffers as a result of that - the game is mostly not that punishing, and it feels like the difficulty of a survival run from the previous games has basically been transposed onto high-rank play.

It's definitely an enjoyable game, even if the stage 4 ending puts me off. I definitely owe it more playthroughs to be able to fully evaluate it next to its predecessors, anyway.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

I've been getting more consistent at Huntdown's arcade mode. It's hard to go back to Story mode after experiencing the nonstop, frenetic action of Arcade, constantly punctuated by exclamations of "DOUBLE KILL," "WEAPONS COMBO" and "EXPLOSIVE."

I have also changed my opinions on the characters. I initially preferred Mow Man, then Sawyer, then Anna Conda. Eventually, I went to favoring Sawyer over the other two. Now I nearly always play Anna Conda because I find her quips a lot more entertaining and her skill set more fun. Anna Conda feels like the most demanding to play, but also one of the most rewarding. Mow Man has an amazing kunai weapon that shreds enemies, but his default pistol is kind of bad. You have to really spam the button and its DPS isn't good enough to keep back a serious horde. You don't want to be standing in the open, firing while enemies spray bullets back at you. Stick and move is the order of the day, and Sawyer is great there. Sawyer's revolver is fucking incredible. It's quite a bit better than some default weapon power-ups, like the Uzi or Shotgun. To have access to a reliable, powerful weapon with infinite ammo? Definitely a strong advantage. Playing Sawyer gives you the advantage to only whip out the temporary weapons when you think they're particularly suitable. His revolver kills every (common) enemy in the game in 1-2 hits, minus a few particularly armored opponents. Mow Man's deagle is too weak, by comparison. Sawyer can pop a couple shots out of cover, kill all the enemies and then duck back before the next barrage of shotgun shells whizzes past. Mow Man doesn't have the damage, so you stand there, just spamming out shots, while enemies chew you up. Mow Man's primary way around that conundrum is to use special weapon ammo or spam kunai. Spamming kunai works but the kunai are on a timer, and using them means you won't have any for a while. Being forced to use special weapons isn't ideal. Sawyer's kit is brought down a little bit by his boomerang being not particularly amazing. If you time the throw just right, you can double-hit (maybe triple-hit) enemies. But the Kunai gets a triple hit by default and Conda's axe can go over obstacles.

Anna Conda is just... A beast. Yes, her default burst-fire Beretta locks her into place. This is a problem for some boss fights, as it can throw off your groove and make you get hit by things you ordinarily would not. This can be overcome with practice, however. You will accustom yourself to the amount of delay inherent in her burst fire. And the payoff is a ridiculous DPS output compared to the other characters. Anna Conda shreds. Her axe initially seems hard to use, but it's perfectly angled to fly over enemy cover and instant-gib troublesome campers. 99% of the time, when ducking behind cover and throwing the axe, it will land just on the head of the enemy ducking behind the nearest piece of available cover. It's really excellent. So, with practice, Anna shits out bullets and tosses Belmondo hatchets of death all over the place. The Beretta has infinite ammo but is about as good as the Uzi (a very good general purpose gun.) Anna, like Sawyer, doesn't need to waste special weapon ammo in ordinary circumstances, which allows you to stock those overpowered guns for particularly rough ambushes, or to speed-kill bosses.
Spoiler
Can I also just reiterate how good her quotes are?

"I'm the queen of all the evil bitches."

*when lighting an enemy on fire* *sings* "Burn, bitch burn!"

*when chasing an enemy with a case* "Gimmie that case!"

*when killing a dog* "I'm more of a cat person."

Sawyer tends to come up with more Arnold-style puns, and Mow Man's audio is a little garbled and wordy.
Anyway, I've obtained Hoodlum Dolls 1ccs with 2 out of 3 characters and only my dislike of Mow Man keeps me from rounding out the trio. I'll soon be moving on to the Misconducts route (although I dislike the Murdoch boss fight). I do have to say, I somewhat disagree with the warning in Huntdown, that suggests you should finish story mode before playing Arcade. Arcade is just more fun. It's harder too, so you'll build skills faster by playing Arcade. You get earlier access to the cool toys playing in arcade mode, and the game feels empty when you switch back to Story.

Edit: Quick 1cc of hoodlum dolls with Mow Man. The hardest 1cc by far of the three. You really have to lean heavily into his kunai because his pistol is so deficient. A lot of my play style relies heavily on nailing Kick Shots and Mow Man's pistol doesn't deal enough damage to kill an enemy after cunt-punting them.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

I'm going to double post because this thread needs more love! I love running to the right and killing motherfuckers, dammit!

I decided to play some Sengoku 2. As was said, I hesitate to call this a beat em up. It's very strange. The combat reminds me of Bushido Blade. It seems to be all about positioning, and then the enemies will either die in a couple of hits or block your attack and riposte. On a surface level, I suppose that element of blocking and slashing is not unlike Knights of the Round. But the block button isn't quite as responsive as I would like. I think certain animations do not cancel into block, so you can't block on reaction. Or so it seems to me. The game is hard as balls. A lot of attacks deal 2 pips of damage and your character only has 6. Maybe that sounds reasonable, but we're talking about single hits here, not combos. A fast slash can take that 2 hp off you and snag another 2 before you know what happened.

The alternate forms seem quite powerful, but only when they have power. Otherwise, I didn't notice much benefit from them. Sweater Ninja seems to have the best frame data spamming kicks, as in some enemies seem unable to hit her while she can freely kick them around. Tengu's stick probably reaches further than your main character's sword, but it doesn't seem like that extremely a difference. The "wind" power on Tengu is shit. Some enemies are totally invulnerable to it. Maybe it's meant for groups, but if I knew a group was coming, I would just charge muh super.

I don't know if I like Sengoku 2 or don't like it. I can give it points for originality, however, which is more than I can do for Sengoku 3. It definitely occupies its own niche and I could see myself going back to play Sengoku 1 as well. Both Sengoku 2 and Sengoku 3 are hard as balls, but Sengoku 3 felt hard because enemies had cheap movesets and bloated hp values. Sengoku 2 mostly killed me when I fucked up the timing on my swings or got parried and riposte'd.

And can I just point out what a visual treat Sengoku 2 is? The whole game is set piece after set piece. The horse stages in particular deserve a shout-out. Absolutely stunning.
Spoiler
Image
I'll probably give Mutation Nation a go next. I've been hearing it's probably the "best" of the neogeo beat em ups.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Super secret forum ninja move: copy your old post into Notepad, add more to your heart's content, then delete Image the old message, and post the new one. This is impossible if someone has posted since, though, like I've just done. Image A terrible paradox! :shock: This thread is eternal, don't worry about it going anywhere. :wink:

(only way that happens is if our absent leader Edmans returns, and reaches Ninja Gaiden's staff roll - then I'll have admins delete it, as promised. This is a big fuckin load of shite but I'm hoping he takes me seriously just so I can revel in his victory alongside him, all Blood Brothers In The Dawn and shit (strong homo Image)

Come home Eds we love you 3; Fuck them HG101 bitches, I told you they were tricks, but I know you never meant that shit. Let's jam about Dai and Saigo like the ol' days. Image Wait fuck, this was meant to be a private message! I HAVE JUST PWNED MYSELF EDS, PLS HALP Image

Actually it's about time for R2RKMF Part VII, now that Part VI: KINGBREAKER has almost run its course. This one was brutal, Super Contra nearly fucken killed me Image TOO BAD 'NEARLY' AINT MEAN SHIT ON THE R2R STREETZ MAHFUCKA! Image Image

Image

Yeah, Sengoku 2 is a trip! It's one of the very few games to remind me of Cannon Dancer and Taromaru's oneiric setpiece barrages (long pre-dating them, at that). Strange scenes and fiends come and go like fever dreams, rearing up out of nowhere and vanishing in barrages of phantasmic ultraviolence.

The ninja's official name is fuckin Mike Walsh lmao Image I dunno if the alt forms are useful at all, could easily see it being a Magician Lord scenario where the base dudes are just too practical. Eh, fun all the same.
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Sumez
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

BIL wrote:Super secret forum ninja move: copy your old post into Notepad, add more to your heart's content, then delete Image the old message, and post the new one. This is impossible if someone has posted since, though, like I've just done.
What's the purpose of doing that?
The result is I often stumble into your posts, reading a couple paragraphs in before realising I've already read it before :P
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Sima Tuna wrote:Huntdown
I haven't picked the Steam version up yet, but played a lot of it when it came out on PS 4. No arcade mode in that version.

Sawyer is easily the best of the 3. Maybe he's easy mode? His gun wrecks everything and his boomerang eviserates mobs in a way Anna and Mow's can't. And if you catch it you can throw it immediately. It's like a sonic boom in that it should always be on screen.

Your post got me thinking bout picking it up.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Sumez wrote:
BIL wrote:Super secret forum ninja move: copy your old post into Notepad, add more to your heart's content, then delete Image the old message, and post the new one. This is impossible if someone has posted since, though, like I've just done.
What's the purpose of doing that?
The result is I often stumble into your posts, reading a couple paragraphs in before realising I've already read it before :P
Well, it does bump the thread, alerting people that new content has been posted, without actually creating a double post.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Sumez wrote:
BIL wrote:Super secret forum ninja move: copy your old post into Notepad, add more to your heart's content, then delete Image the old message, and post the new one. This is impossible if someone has posted since, though, like I've just done.
What's the purpose of doing that?
The result is I often stumble into your posts, reading a couple paragraphs in before realising I've already read it before :P
Hmm, I guess basically -
Sir Ilpalazzo wrote:Well, it does bump the thread, alerting people that new content has been posted, without actually creating a double post.
YEAH EXACTORI (`w´メ)

KEEP YER EYEZ PEELED SUMEZ-SAN(^w´ )


HOWEWER, even though I am sad 2 hear I inadvertently hide my rovingly crafted posts from u (;`w´;) I am glad you mention this! As there is a further inflection to this technique! :o You can also MIX IT UP ON EM by putting the new content first! Image This is great when you're posting in ghost town threads where you're the lone participant over literally months and years! :shock:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

Stevens wrote:
Sima Tuna wrote:Huntdown
I haven't picked the Steam version up yet, but played a lot of it when it came out on PS 4. No arcade mode in that version.

Sawyer is easily the best of the 3. Maybe he's easy mode? His gun wrecks everything and his boomerang eviserates mobs in a way Anna and Mow's can't. And if you catch it you can throw it immediately. It's like a sonic boom in that it should always be on screen.

Your post got me thinking bout picking it up.
You should definitely play Arcade Mode. It's so much more fun than story. Dig into the arcade mode and then see if you still feel Sawyer is best. I'm not saying you're wrong, but Anna has two really good tools. Her gun puts out as much DPS as Sawyer's at least. It just doesn't deal as much burst damage. But the shots will more easily penetrate into layered mobs and shred them. Her axe is an instant kill for almost anything, hits above you (very useful at times) and deals le huge dommage to bosses.

I would definitely say Mow Man is the weakest of the three. His pistol is kinda shit. His kunai is good but you can't spam kunai for the entire game. It goes on cooldown too often for that.

I already posted a novel in the 1cc thread, but I got my 1cc for Misconducts Arcade with Anna. Run forward + beretta = everything dies.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Going to pick it up tonight.

The game is perfect for arcade mode. It makes sense really as each gang is five stages and is like a full game in and of itself.

I don't want to spoil anything, but one of the boss fights later in the game is particularly excellent.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Searchlike »

Reached the final level of Elevator Action Returns with Edie, but my gal was viciously murdered soon after. That's no way to treat a lady, I'm gonna hunt you down and teach you some manners. :x
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Taito: the ending where the nuke detonates in your face killing all your team is the good one Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

I've been trying to play Huntdown, but it really struggles to maintain my interest. It seems like a game that's everything I should love, but I don't love much about it at all.

I don't know what it is, but it feels repetitive? Though generally I like tight arcade'y action games to maintain a focus on the one thing it does right and stick to it, somehow this game just manages to feel tedious - like it's stretched way too thin, even taking each "territory" as a separate game like arcade mode does. The bosses are also stretched out way too far - I've had a couple of fights where I felt I was doing the wrong thing because it felt so tedious to whittle down their health, but then I checked out videos of skilled players fighting them, and they did the same thing. They generally feel designed well, but seem to mostly be designed to challenge your attrition rather than your skill, which I don't enjoy.

My approach has been playing until each gang boss and then replaying the same area in arcade mode, and arcade mode definitely feels a lot better to play. I started out with Anna Conda (who has been my player for story mode), but Sawyer is definitely way stronger. He's not able to pin down enemies with rapid fire (which was what first turned me off about him), but he allows for a much more effective approach if you think about how you're playing, and either the boomerang is super overpowered, or the axe is super underpowered. The boomerang does feel more like what the game was designed for.

I don't know if I have the patience to finish all four gangs for the game - every time I sit down to play a tiny bit further it feels like a chore rather than a delight.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by mycophobia »

double posting is cool
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Not as cool as triple posting though ;3

(always apologise for a double post with a third, triple post - it's the only way to be sure Image)
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Sumez wrote: the boomerang is super overpowered
It is. If you keep catching it you can keep throwing it and it hits every enemy in its path.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Sima Tuna wrote:
Dig into the arcade mode and then see if you still feel Sawyer is best.
I picked it up this morning and played a credit with Sawyer. I don't know if he is the best, but I don't think he is any worse. I got to Dreadnaught my first go. I know arcade randomizes some things but its been so long since I played I don't remember the enemy placements anyway.

Glad I picked it up.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

Stevens wrote:
Sima Tuna wrote:
Dig into the arcade mode and then see if you still feel Sawyer is best.
I picked it up this morning and played a credit with Sawyer. I don't know if he is the best, but I don't think he is any worse. I got to Dreadnaught my first go. I know arcade randomizes some things but its been so long since I played I don't remember the enemy placements anyway.

Glad I picked it up.
What is Dreadnaught? Is that the bitch with the flamethrower? If you can clear Psychonaught then you will be able to get the 1cc of Hoodlum Dolls easily. The theater is the hardest level because of the fire spawns mixed with molotov throwers. Troy Lawman is very easy so long as you clear his reinforcement phases before his next attack phase starts.

The hatchet Anna throws has a ton of utility that isn't obvious. Very few weapons hit above you. The grenade launchers do and so does the axe. There are certain enemies that like to hover just above your level, and then they align themselves with you (or at an angle to you) while firing. If you have a hatchet or grenade launcher, you can pop them before they do anything at all. The hatchet hits enemies behind cover and, by running before throwing it, you can actually snipe across the visible map, killing enemies even before they appear. Popping an LMG guy who was hiding behind cover before he can do anything? Sweet. The hatchet is also THE ideal subweapon for jetpack guys, skateboarders and any enemy that's on a platform above you. The only area where the hatchet suffers is crowd control, but most of the subweapon pickups in Huntdown are built to destroy crowds (grenade, remote bomb, shuriken, chain grenade) so that doesn't matter. The hatchet is also amazing at dealing damage from angles where bosses can't retaliate. Murdoch, Teddy and TNT Randy all like to stand across from you and spam shit. With the hatchet, you can stand under them, short hop and chuck with impunity.

I played around with the boomerang and I still don't like it. Yes, at a specific range, it does shred mobs. The problem is how catching it requires me to limit my movement. When I play Huntdown, I like to stay very mobile. I don't want my movements to be constrained. Maybe I simply lack the skill to avoid enemy fire while grabbing the boomerang, but I really didn't enjoy the playstyle it forced me into. I also tend to be always holding up or down, so the boomerang trajectory gets fucked unless I specifically remember to go back to neutral before throwing. It doesn't gel with how I play.

All that said, however, Sawyer is still a top 2 character, no question. His revolver is ridiculous. I don't know what the consensus is on this game's tiers or advanced play because I haven't been able to find many people clearing Arcade mode, and there's almost no information online about 1ccing the game. Hell, there's so little info I could probably post a video about it at this point. :roll:

On an unrelated note, I play this game on my Switch and the normally-shit joycons work extremely well for Huntdown. Huntdown is a game reliant upon precise inputs. A shitty dpad ruins my enjoyment of the game. I have tried to play this game on a horipad, and it sucks because that dpad is too imprecise. With its fake button d-pad, the joycons simply cannot accidentally give the wrong diagonal input. If I were to play Huntdown on an arcade stick, I would want a 4-direction stick. Huntdown doesn't use diagonal inputs, so the joycons are fantastic! I know, I know... The joycons are actually good? But the end result is, between the responsive pad controls and wide aspect ratio, playing Huntdown in handheld mode on Switch is a superior experience. This is probably the best fit of joycons to an arcade game that I have played.
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