Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sima Tuna]

Heavy Machine Gun should be default in later slugs. Maybe it would make the games too easy but I feel like the newer slugs are balanced around having it. Metal Slug 6 in particular I remember being pissed off with how weak the pistol was. Pistol is fine in MS1 because very little can tank in that game.

[Sumez]

You very rarely need to rely on the pistol even in Metal Slug 1.

[Volteccer_Jack]

(it is indeed significantly shorter than MS3 - all of the Neo Slugs are, by a good 10/15 minutes, depending on your MS3 route)

Metal Slug 3 always felt very long to me, too long even.

Heavy Machine Gun should be default in later slugs. Maybe it would make the games too easy but I feel like the newer slugs are balanced around having it. Metal Slug 6 in particular I remember being pissed off with how weak the pistol was. Pistol is fine in MS1 because very little can tank in that game.

When you play as Marco in Metal Slug 7 he gets the special unique ability that his pistol isn't useless lol.

[BIL]

MS3 should've used its path select mechanic to break up the Final Mission, imo. Have one team attack the mothership from Earth, while the other destroys it from within.

Also (going further into armchair dev territory)... ditch that second consecutive vertical STG bit. Replace with something like MS1's st3-1, or MSX's st2-3. Make the player climb their way up some treacherous, body-mangling industrial environ to reach the top. Have a GodLazor blow up the screen center every now and then, atomising friend and foe alike. Use some obliviously bulldozing maintenance bots as ledge guards. Put some poor pricks in the BG getting mangled by machinery, brr. (MS4's st3-3 / Lower is my overall favourite vert action of the Neo Slugs, and most definitely about as deadly as MS3's Final Mission vignettes)

The shooter segments themselves aren't too awful... but neither is better than mediocre (especially by ex-IREM standards!), with their clunky ship, middling guns and basic stage design - and putting them back-to-back really fatigues, particularly if you're unlucky enough to be playing sans autofire (you get plenty of weapons, but the Astro Slug's default shot is aberrantly shite, haunting the scene).

I like 'em a bit more since copy-paster noticed you can speed boost by holding [jump], just don't get any funny ideas about shooting while doing so, or you'll kamikaze the fucker.

On a primal level, I'll always respect and even love the ridiculous excess. MS3 is the heavingly overstuffed double album, after MS1's prodigious indie debut and MSX's major label freshening up. I can allow them a bit of clunk for their last show ever. (MS2 was the sophomore misstep where they blew all their studio time on loose women and jazz cabbage, and several drummers died in freak gardening mishaps)

[trap15]

Looking forward to ACA Dragon Buster, a seminal game in the side scrolling ARPG genre. Also, you would not be disappointed with Finest Hour. Very bizarre and unorthodox game design but damn is it cool and satisfying to play.

[BIL]

Goddamn heating went out, grr. My hands are frozen, otherwise I'd get down to some BUSSIN. Dragon Bussin that is!

Looking forward to ACA Dragon Buster, a seminal game in the side scrolling ARPG genre. Also, you would not be disappointed with Finest Hour. Very bizarre and unorthodox game design but damn is it cool and satisfying to play.

One of those occasional ACA releases with a nice fat Preference Settings menu SPURT TIME is always of critical bussin concern!





Always found DB's sprites a tad goofy, but god damn, that is one badass logo I'm sure I remember it emblazoning a hood in some Ridge Racer or another, along with NEBULASRAY and DRAGONSABER. Or maybe it was on a jacket in a Tekken. Immortal works either way, those early 80s Namco logos.



ON STANDBY VER

Spoiler

Good to hear re: Finest Hour! I'd give it a shot, but I like to torment myself with the occasional no-hoper home release. (unironically, they tend to feel more "new game" than actual new releases)

EDIT: Ah dammit, I can't resist a few credits, RIP workbrain. This game has a doublejump? Good gravy. That blows away my previous earliest example (The Revenge Of The Super Shinobi) by a good half-decade.

Professonal DARGON Bussin, none more KVLT

Spoiler

Interesting... and yep, there's the br00tal downstab, factory-standard unlike a certain Zelda II. (ZII's got my favourite sidescrolling ARPG swordplay n' footsies, but I think it'd have done better to give you the full basic moveset from the start, cranking up the enemies as needed - homie knowing how to stab buddies in the brain and/or taint is kinda Kenshi 101)

ala Pac-Land, the run and jump inputs do feel like they'd benefit from a proper arcade stick, as opposed to a dpad. Between Hamster and M2 I'm at least two years overdue one, not the worst thing. EDIT2: Ah right, I see how jumping forward works... let off the [forward] input a tick, then hit [up]. Very efficient-yet-considerate manual from Hamster, as usual. There's a cute item guide in the back, which I won't look at just yet. Enjoyed hunting down Genpei's Imperial Regalia. If it's a Druaga-style communal affair, I'll capitulate soon enough.

[BrianC]

ala Pac-Land, the run and jump inputs do feel like they'd benefit from a proper arcade stick

Pac-Land used buttons, though I agree that proper arcade buttons are ideal. I didn't mind Namco's push up on dpad and use buttons to run method on FC (IIRC, TG-16/PCE also has that option) either. FC port isn't bad for an early FC game but is definitely outclassed by the PCE port.

[BIL]

Blimey, yeah! Totally forgot about Pac-Land's AC controls. I could swear I remember knocking a joystick against its gate to make Pac-Man run, forever ago, but I suspect that might've been someone's MAME cab... never actually saw the real thing IRL. The last version I played was indeed Namco's customarily likeable FC cart.

[trap15]

Ah right, I see how jumping forward works... let off the [forward] input a tick, then hit [up].

Ah, so they didn't make a change to convert it to 8-way... It's one of the reasons I let my PCB of the game go; as a 4-way game, diagonal double-jumping is extremely frustrating especially in some of the later maze-like dungeons. The excellent X68000 port is nearly identical to the arcade version except it's properly 8-way so you can just hit up-right and get a diagonal jump out on command. So, I'm a little disappointed they didn't add such a nice little tweak while they were at adding other tweaks.

[BIL]

Yeah, I gotta say I had my fingers crossed they'd add something similar, when you mentioned the X68k version. I guess this'll be a trial by fire, but then I'm the sort of hopeless romantic with IRL IREM bodyhorror Holy Diver under his roof, despite zero intentions of ever playing it again in OG code...

[Ghegs]

I saw this and thought of BIL.

[BIL]

Holy fuck, that looks bang on-target for the console Saigo followups that never were. Great name, too! Cheers, will keep an eye on those dudes!

[Marc]

I thought Metal Slug 4 was generally regarded as a tired rehash? I'm enjoying it way more than 3 so far

[BIL]

Only contemporary review I recall was EDGE's, from their surprisingly excellent streak in the early 00s. They very reasonably said it can't help feeling aesthetically glum, recycling Nazca's pixels, yet having none of their legendary prowess or wild ambition, and arriving shortly after MS3's towering sendoff - but that for meat n' potatoes gun/knife/grenade Sluggin', it was entirely competitive.

Everyone else can eat shit. (nah for real, there are threads over at NG.com where noobs call it "the worst Neo Geo game" while blowing Magician Lord - u wot m8? and I roooves me some Magician Lord - just saying, be objective FFS, random noob from two decades ago!)

I think casuals tend to overdo the "OMFG LEGENDARY SERIES, NOBODY CAN DO IT EVER AGEEN!" torch song. Sometimes it's valid - most of Silent Hill's outsourced sequels choke big dong, because the devs either didn't know or care how to avoid rehash, especially deleterious to SH's still-fledgling terror-horror niche. Sometimes outsiders have a clue, though. Contra 4's another good example, it's a perfectly aight FC/SFC throwback, even if just like MS4, it doesn't have much identity of its own.

[Sima Tuna]

I saw this and thought of BIL.

Those explosions are so juicy!

I thought Metal Slug 4 was generally regarded as a tired rehash? I'm enjoying it way more than 3 so far

If you read this forum, you probably already know that mainstream opinions of arcade games are very often hilariously wrong.

Mega Man 5 also took a lot of shit when it came out for being "just another nes mega man." But as someone who played nes mega man later than most, I found it one of the best of the classic series. Probably my personal favorite next to MM3.

[Volteccer_Jack]

When I first got introduced to Metal Slug and was looking for info about the series, the impression I got was that 4 and 5 were supposedly bad and that 3 was like the golden child of the series or something, but after playing them I concluded that neither is true. My perhaps controversial opinion is that 2 is my favorite (I'm an X hater), followed by 1. And while I rate 3 above 4/5, that's purely on the strength of the glorious dramatic finale of 3, not on the basis of overall design.

I saw this and thought of BIL.

Oh that's a game to look forward to.

[BIL]

When I first got introduced to Metal Slug and was looking for info about the series, the impression I got was that 4 and 5 were supposedly bad and that 3 was like the golden child of the series or something, but after playing them I concluded that neither is true.

Same - the PS2 MS4+5 pack was the first serious time I put on Slug, with the Xbox MS3 shortly after. Between the three of them, MS3 clearly dominates on style and production value, while avoiding schoolboy errors like MS5's sleepy opening two stages. But it's far from unassailable, by either its predecessors or the non-Nazcas; it's also got that commonly-cited weakness for excess. Nazca's collective weapon mechanics are my run/gun catnip - shoot! stab! burn! - so even its most massive hordes don't touch the sides (a drinking idiom I've never been entirely at ease with but which works too well here to ignore ). But I do get why others often strongly prefer MS1's faster clip. MS3's frequently a heaving job of corpse-making work.

re: MS4, the "rehash" thing falls particularly flat, and is a pretty sure sign that the commentator has probably bumble-fed Nazca's Slugs, at best. All of them, and I love 'em more than is healthy, but all of them have the same pattern of slightly over-generous (though rampantly cathartic!) earlier stages, followed by an absolute murderous endgame hellspike that'll send casuals running. The Bridge, Rugname, All About Love - all of them blow their preceding areas to matchsticks. Again, it's up my alley, I dig a really harrowing final trial to overcome. They're like the hard gaming equivalent of autoerotic asphyxiation.

(bad stuff, kids! don't do it! if you die, NOBODY will ever mention you without including that detail, ever again! )



Rest in peace sir. 3;

But it's a very common complaint to hear from prospective clearers, that much of the Nazcas' runs become trivial as the 1CC nears, only for the endspike to sledgehammer them. MS4 is very distinctly in "die you motherfucker!" mode from its second boss, and never lets up, aside from a couple of easier route choices. Its absolute is no harder than Nazca's (actually, I'd call it slightly easier than X and 3, on account of the relatively compact Final Mission and intensely execution-based but very static final boss). But it's a lot more consistent about getting there, more than enough to justify its place in the Neo series.

---

Definite learning curve on Dragon Buster's controls, but I feel like I'm getting to grips - enough for the game's blitzkrieg interpretation of dungeon-crawling to shine through. In all regards - player, enemies, miniboss battles - this thing moves fast. Pace reminds me of Real Bout 2's pricelessly blunt "GET IN THE RING!" (the gearbox-slamming transitions between amiable stage BGM and goofily distraught midboss BGM work amazingly )

Besides having the earliest doublejump I know of, goddamn, this feels like the earliest juggle engine, too. Bosses can hackysack your poor due br00tally, if you're at all weenie when going for those big prestigious downstabs. Fuckin spinosaurus anti-aired me then clapped me across the room, amazin

Offhand, I'd wonder if there's a speedrun potential in this game. Not my bag personally, but it's impossible to shake that feeling while hauling ass down corridors, taking care not to outrun your own projectile.

[Sima Tuna]

I'd definitely argue that MS4 is easier than 3. I'm terrible at metal slug, but even so, the final gauntlet in metal slug 3 lasts forever and is beyond brutal. The zombie section (of the final level, not level 2) still makes me mad to think about.

Besides, the hard stuff in metal slug 4 feels more fair to me because it's based on hard shit from the prior games. I mean, if I die to a homing bazooka shot then it really doesn't matter how cheaply that bazooka was placed. Because the shot was fairly slow, big, flashing and is used by an enemy type that's been in every prior metal slug game. Metal Slug 3 has a lot of new stuff, but some of it is pretty obnoxious in terms of design.

[BIL]

MS3 final escape is almost totally static - the regular clones can muck about, but they're easily cut down, unlike their GODLAZOR comrades. Though it's the good kind of routine, where the clockwork is so tightly-arrayed, you've got to force your own openings, or else be swallowed up and crushed. Additionally, it's got a healthy performance ceiling - you can really sledgehammer through it with good use of the vehicles, especially if you arrive with lots of HMG from the Cocoon fight. Cleverly woven into the larger stage too - learning to escape with plenty of grenades and Flame Shot helps a lot VS Rootmars' obnoxiously vast HP, though only good Exit Exploit technique can guarantee victory there (a minor pet peeve of mine, but I'm glad they owned it by giving 2P their own Slug, in co-op games... otherwise, you'd need one player to shield the other from the near-undodgeable Angry Bubble RNG).

As often with MS3, best feature is its sheer gravitas - the black n' blood-red tint, the guttural klaxon, the falling debris with every screen-juddering tremor, and its proximity to a stern final boss, all set to HIYA's trademark cod-epic score... incredible sense of OMFG, DIS PLACE BE FUCKED (cuz a me! )

[Udderdude]

Cuphead DLC trailer. June 30th, 2022. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bskUa1jX0Gg

[Sumez]

Man, I was just looking up information about the Cuphead DLC as recently as two days ago, and at that point a lot of people had actually declared it vaporware due to a complete lack of communication from the devs and the original release date set to 2019.

They've previously said that they'd make a physical release for Switch once the DLC was done, so I've been holding out with a purchase. And I've ended up holding out a lot longer than I expected.

[Udderdude]

The original game was announced in 2010, and didn't come out until 2017, so it's par for the course for these guys. At least it looks like it'll be worth the wait.

[Sima Tuna]

So I did a little credit feeding in Metal Slug 4 to see if I was misremembering how the game is.

I still really like it. It's harder than I remembered. I guess I was just remembering that first stage, which I still think is great (although easy.) The cars flying in explosions of flames, the motorcycle segment, the giant blimp boss, are all so memorable. It gives metal slug 4 its own identity, with a vaguely euro theme.

Even though the game is harder than I remembered, I'd still say it's more pleasant for me than metal slug 3. The most annoying element in metal slug 4, for me, was probably the overuse of helicopters. I just find this an annoying enemy because of how mobile they are. There were also times when enemies would spawn at the left and right corners of the screen simultaneously and do an attack that one couldn't possibly avoid unless they had memorized the spawn. But that's metal slug in general.

I prefer the zombie level in metal slug 4 to the one in metal slug 3. The juxtaposition of zombies on one side, and hazmat-suited nazis on the other, provides a nice contrast in enemy types. Really, aside from the beach level in metal slug 3, I thought all of the levels in 4 were at least as good, if not superior. The robot dog slug is great fun too. That final descent part is definitely a bitch, but the other parts of the final level are more fair (imo) than the endless final rush of metal slug 3.

Probably the "worst" thing about metal slug 4 is you can't play as Eri. The two new characters are extremely bland.

[BIL]

I always take the lower route in Mission 1 - I gave the upper bike chase a revisit last time I was playing, for variety's sake, and while it's not as much of a washout as I'd recalled (see Metal Slug 5's mandatory opening boat for that), I'd still rather just tear through the riverside. It's actually longer, IIRC, but packed with destruction from end-to-end. I only wish it weren't so goddamn fugly (even by MS4's weaker standards). With the nonstop pace and pitch-perfect ammo drops, it's the sort of first stage I could replay all day.

Something I noticed about MS4, that I can't recall from the Nazcas - regular green Rebels sometimes using multiple weapons. Mission 4's opening is one of the more intense parts to take at speed, I find, with the risk of what you thought was a grenadier busting out a rocket or rolling bomb. You can see the Rebel on the right of the screen try it here, though my INVINCIBLE CHEATZ (those heli bullets hit me! ) sees him cruelly cut down.

I can't recall if this happens anywhere else even in MS4 itself, actually... I really like that sequence, at any rate. Slug is at its best when forcing you to multi-task, imo, juggling between several active threats. Actually this goes for my favourite action games in general. I like it when regular enemies have a couple of different attacks, too.

The most annoying element in metal slug 4, for me, was probably the overuse of helicopters.

Now this is what you call an embarrassment of helicopters. (plus the ~15 earlier in the stage, dohoho)

Spoiler

Needless to say, best use for helis is dropping them on infantry. Metal as fuck



Ancient sadness of desert sands / An unending hymn of praise / To the Sanhedrin of Sheol (｀w´メ)



Here's the one in who my soul delights / Close enough to touch yet out of reach / Everything is real, everything dies (｀w´メ)

[Stevens]

Mark of the Ninja is fucking dope.

While playing it I came to a realization: If a game has a ninja it is probably worth my (and your) time. Kage? Thanks Taito. Ninja Warriors? Fucking robot ninjas. Sekiro? Amazing. Ninja Spirit? Same. Ninja Gaiden? Shinobi? PS 2 Shinobi with that life drain mechanic I wish I would see again. The upcoming Shinobi Non Grata, Sega's Ninja Princess. Ghostrunner (He's a ninja):)

I was going to start a thread in honor of the coolest video game protagonists ever, but this post will do.

Feel free to add any ninjas I may have forgotten. Just not Michael Dudikoff.

[Udderdude]

You forgot Ninja Five-0.

[Stevens]

And Tenchu.

So I've been digging through the ether trying to find the first video game ninja protagonist.

I haven't found one prior to 1985, so far I've got:

Legend of Kate and Saboteur, but only the year, no month.

Sega's Ninja Princess was released in March of '85.

Also found this: https://www.mobygames.com/game/ninja__

Sasuke vs. Commander is earlier, but does it really fit?

[BIL]

I'd count Sasuke, given the name's long association with ninja folklore. AFAIK, the protagonist is indeed a ninja in the Shogun's employ (I guess being referred to by name in the iconic "Sasuke! Protect me from ninja!" while his enemies go by the generic label is a recognition of his prowess and Main Character DNA, haha).

Apparently there was at least one renowned real-life spy/assassin by that name, though the really famous figure seems to be Sarutobi Sasuke, a fictional ninja hero of early 20th century boy's literature. Lots of game/manga/film references seem to trace back to him.



^ bad little dude, my favourite Ganbare Goemon 2 character with his speedy run and body-bisecting kunai

Sasuke vs Commander is also an interestingly early example of the "character STG" - can't recall any pre-dating it. Maybe Namco's King & Balloon (also 1980), at a stretch - you control a ballista manned by a pair of little soldier dudes. Another a "protect ur boss" affair, incidentally.



Konami's Pooyan is later (1982), but I find the similar setup interesting. [player character gunner] [NPC charges] is a nice hardware-efficient way to liven up the screen without sacrificing that shoot n' scoot immediacy.

In further shinobi-related gaming, finally sat down with this week's ACA release, Mirai Ninja. 1988 Namco sidescroller, running on the System 2 hardware (home to lots of really rad stuff, like spiritual seek/destroy siblings Assault and Metal Hawk).



Very cool, unique ninja sidescroller whose idiosyncrasy won't be for everyone. Titular cyberninja Shiranui's movement speeds are "fast" and "really goddamn fast" (doubletap [forward] while in air to dash), with the FOV optimised for incoming screen - even then, it takes focus not to slam into enemies and obstacles. It's an innately looser, bumpier game compared to tightly-run affairs like Rygar and Shinobi.

Outrunning bosses' dying attacks and explosions = Ninja AF

Spoiler

At first, particularly with autofire on, it's tempting to bunnydash along, mowing through enemies while shrugging off the odd hit. Feels great, and won't be immediately punished - but death by attrition will steadily ensue. As in earlier Namco title Genpei Toumaden, your lifebar is generous, but won't recover fully between stages. So a racing game-esque learning process ensues, learning where to floor it down the straights, and where to hold back as enemy waves spawn in, ripe for a deft snipe-shredding. Exactly like Genpei, taking the odd bump isn't a problem, and is often preferable if it secures a swift kill; swimming through walls of flak is what'll sink you.

Camera tracking's a tad loose, ala Super Shinobi

Spoiler

Weaponry is very run/gun; autofire prompts a Contra-esque hail of flying metal. You also have a Shinobiesque CQC katana, whose power I'm not certain on currently... may be more relevant in non-autofire play.

Aesthetically quite special - Keita Amemiya (Zeiram, Hagane artist)'s presence is obvious, albeit not quite as refined as in the latter project. Norio Nakagata's BGM is outstanding, as expected of the estimable Genpei's composer - you know when Technouchi likes it, it'll be quality stuff. Second stage BGM's an artfully sinister cyber-disco beaut. (edit: oh wao he picked the same tune )

The inimitable Abarenbou Tengu always struck me as having a remarkably good OST - only now do I realise the calibre of its composer (or at least one of them!). Legit Famicom thrash metal intensity, "Streamer" in particular. Mirai's HS theme exudes a similarly controlled mania.

A bit idiosyncratic to recommend blind, but very much worth a tryout - particularly for fans of the Super Shinobi trilogy, who don't mind stages demanding a time-trialler's eye for rehearsal and optimisation.

[BrianC]

Legend of Kate

Is that a Legend of Kage hack with a female ninja?

[Despatche]

Ninja-kun stuff is usually pretty good.

Iga Ninjutsu Den is weird but maybe good? Stages are weirdly long and I'm not at all sure whether I'm doing the right thing.

Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel is pretty sick. You have like a billion moves, including a completely ridiculous air dash that you can control to a shocking degree. Zero's a ninja's ninja. Aero is a pretty cool little series, I wish we got even one more game out of it.

Insert Ninja Master's here? Maybe a meme game, but the production values are completely insane. It's probably no less playable than The Last Blade 2, which everyone worships despite (or maybe because of) having characters like Zantetsu in it. Zantetsu is a ninja of course. He's also completely busted.

I'd count Sasuke, given the name's long association with ninja folklore. AFAIK, the protagonist is indeed a ninja in the Shogun's employ (I guess being referred to by name in the iconic "Sasuke! Protect me from ninja!" while his enemies go by the generic label is a recognition of his prowess and Main Character DNA, haha).

Well, Goemon and friends are all supposed to be ninjas. Some are better at it than others (Yae is like the only one who's actually employed to do ninja things and also seems to be pretty good at her job), but they are still Ninja Video Game Characters. I'd recommend a lot of Goemon games as Good Ninja Video Games.