Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Sumez
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

I agree completely that the game needs a training mode. I ended up making a save game for each individual stage on Expert in order to practice them. As for bosses, the best you can do is the same as I tend to do in a lot of arcade games, where you just stop attacking them and see how long you can survive by just dodging their patterns.

A 3 life structure would make sense, but Arcade mode being a one kill = game over affair is pretty exciting IMO. Since the whole thing about that mode is that you never get a free health refill, even between stages, doing the whole game on one life bar is incredibly satisfying.

Cyber Shadow has nothing on this game. Did you beat expert mode yet?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

it290 have you tried mapping zip line to a shoulder button?

Picked it up after a few weeks off. Got to stage 4 no problem. Fyi - ost is free on steam.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by it290 »

Sumez wrote:Cyber Shadow has nothing on this game. Did you beat expert mode yet?
A totally different style of game, to be sure, the former being much less of a balls to the wall actioner, but I think a solid game nonetheless. Haven't touched SA since my last post, will get some Expert runs in today.
Stevens wrote:it290 have you tried mapping zip line to a shoulder button?
I did try that initially, but it still felt a bit off to me. Going to give it a go with an arcade stick and see where that gets me.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Ah Jesus, Phozon is my tactile OCD nightmare. :lol: Topdown puzzle/action game entirely about nudging sprites juuust right, the way I start doing if my concentration wanders in straight actioners.

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JYEEEAAAAH HOLY FUCK THIS IS HARD CORE :shock:
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I don't recall this one at all from my Japanese PS1 Namco Museums, was it a US exclusive? Let's see.

Hm, seems not! Must've forgotten. It's a notably, willfully abstract game, by the iconic standards of early 80s Namco. Interestingly enough, it seems to run on Mappy hardware. Wasn't really fired up at first glance, but I'm glad it got an ACA release this week. Raimais and Libble Rabble were the previous, lots of first-rate topdown puzzle/action lately. Can't stay in this mode too long though. I must kill and be killed! Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

AFAIK, Phozon is on both the US and JP versions of Namco Museum volume 3. That's where I have first played it (US version) and I like it quite a bit. Volume 3 also has the most secrets out of all the Namco Museums.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Sumez wrote:I agree completely that the game needs a training mode. I ended up making a save game for each individual stage on Expert in order to practice them. As for bosses, the best you can do is the same as I tend to do in a lot of arcade games, where you just stop attacking them and see how long you can survive by just dodging their patterns.

A 3 life structure would make sense, but Arcade mode being a one kill = game over affair is pretty exciting IMO. Since the whole thing about that mode is that you never get a free health refill, even between stages, doing the whole game on one life bar is incredibly satisfying.

Cyber Shadow has nothing on this game. Did you beat expert mode yet?
The patch is welcome and the OST even more so, but honestly it didn't change too much. Normal is still a fucking joke - regular damage is good, but the health refills in between areas is ridiculous. Less enemies here and there and a health refill on stage end would be plenty.

Which brings me to expert. Would have loved a small health bump on levels end = to 1/2 of missing health rounded down. Missing 5? You get two back.

Meh no matter. Game is short: ) Going to play some later.

Made it to stage five, expert! Mind you not on a single credit, but on three. Died twice on four, but finally have the stage figured out. Love the nod to the BEAST. Also level four is pretty generous with power ups - two shields and health. Though on my last credit I didn't need the health.

Was down to my last hit at the start of five. I did make it up the elevator, but big boi ended my trip.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

BrianC wrote:AFAIK, Phozon is on both the US and JP versions of Namco Museum volume 3. That's where I have first played it (US version) and I like it quite a bit. Volume 3 also has the most secrets out of all the Namco Museums.
Such a great series. :cool:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Randorama »

+1 for Phozon. Completely forgot about its existence, thanks gents.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

Raimais is definitely good stuff. Feels like a mix of Pac-Man and Arkanoid, though dot collecting car games actually predated Pac-Man.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

I found Raimais on the PS 2 Taito Collection a few summers back. Might double dip on it when I've had my fill of Steel Assault.

Which I am not going to lie - I can see playing this game years from now. People complaining it's too short, but the truth is the length is perfect.

3 credits to Magnus and light sabre. Offed me pretty quick, but I'm close.

Edit - One credit to Magnus last (?) form.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

I struggle to think of an arcade game that is actually too short. Maybe Dragon Blaze could have used another level? But I only say that as a casual credit feeder. I bet I'd feel differently if I tried to 1cc it.

Most arcade games made nowadays are way too long. Even the good games. 40-50 minutes is too long for arcade. Who wants to spend that long on a single attempt? Probably without even pausing. I play a lot of really long games, but I'm always able to set the game down for a second to do stuff. I don't feel I'm able to do so with arcade games. If nothing else, I lose my focus.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

AC Contra's a very rare example of an arcade game that could've genuinely used a little padding (it's maybe 8minutes for a basic 1CC; potentially sub-6min if you're good). Umechan Team's FC version extends each stage roughly 50%, giving its standout feature - the unpredictably jumping, shooting zako - some needed time to shine.

I wouldn't change the AC one though. Crank it up to max difficulty and it becomes a concentrated flashbang of scrolling ultraviolence, much like its arcade sequel. If anything, I wish the de facto third AC Contra, Sunset Riders, had trimmed down a little.

All the other short 1ALLs I can think of like OG Kunio and Legend of Kage were clearly designed for multi-loop play.

I think the sweet spot is ~15minutes for a complete run, with real punter-killing intensity arriving no later than 5minutes in. Saigo no Nindou, Double Dragon II and Ikari (single loopers) all nail this. It's been a while, but IIRC, Dragon Blaze and Gunbird 2 are in that ballpark for 2-ALLs. Hard as diamond coffin nails, both, but neither will waste a second of your time.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Stevens wrote:Normal is still a fucking joke - regular damage is good, but the health refills in between areas is ridiculous. Less enemies here and there and a health refill on stage end would be plenty.
I didn't realise Steel Assault had any difficulties lower than expert ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

I mean I'm playing it on expert too, I just wanted to see what the patch did:)
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

BIL wrote:
I think the sweet spot is ~15minutes for a complete run, with real punter-killing intensity arriving no later than 5minutes in. Saigo no Nindou, Double Dragon II and Ikari (single loopers) all nail this. It's been a while, but IIRC, Dragon Blaze and Gunbird 2 are in that ballpark for 2-ALLs. Hard as diamond coffin nails, both, but neither will waste a second of your time.
Yeah, I was thinking 15-20 for a complete run is about right. I believe Double Dragon 1 nes is around 15 minutes and it feels right. Contra nes might have increased length compared to the arcade, but it's not unreasonable at all. I don't remember what Castlevania 1 is, but I want to say that one was also fine.

I guess part of the reason we don't see that length any more is no game dev wants to put out a game that's 20 minutes long and get savaged on metacritic for it.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Ghegs »

Funnily enough, I've been working on Tanuki Justice, released on Switch a year ago and on PC/PS4 a bit later, and a full run of that takes about 15 minutes. There's even achievements for doing in faster.

It's in kind of a weird place between action-platformer and a run 'n gun, in that your main weapon is a shuriken with a rather limited range, and even when powered up it doesn't go that far. And the only other weapon is a comically oversized megashuriken, which also doesn't go even half the length of the screen. But you can throw the shuriken in 8 directions and there are the expected buttons for locking firing direction and locking your feet in place.

There's also the unexpected option of locking your direction movement while allowing you to fire at any direction. I think this was a misstep though, as it uses the same button as locking your feet in place, and which one you activate depends on whether you're moving at the moment of pressing the button. In the heat of battle it's hard to remember to stop your movement for a moment before hitting the button, which leads to running right into enemies or off a cliff, when you just meant to stand your ground and dispatch enemies coming from several directions.

The game also doesn't offer autofire, so I opted to use my 8Bit Do Pro 2 and map turbo to it manually.

But the game's really fun, and it has some cool setpieces. And I like how the harder difficulties don't seem to increase the enemies HP at all, they just throw in more of them while also adding in environmental hazards. 1CCing Normal didn't take too many tries, I'm working on getting through Hard now.
You can get a lot of 1Ups via score and hidden in stages (I've had 8 in reserve by the end of the second stage) so it should be quite doable. And then there's Insane after that.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Udderdude »

ohfivepro 1cc of Clockwork Aquario. That was fast. Guess this is another reason it failed the location tests .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp5h8OIf6tU

Anyway, it certainty looks pretty, but I can see why they cancelled it. Felt more like a vehicle for the pretty graphics than anything else. Decidedly average game, but maybe you can get some enjoyment out of it.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Despatche »

Considering this is the same company who made things like Monster Land and Aurail, there's probably more to the story than this.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Udderdude wrote: Anyway, it certainty looks pretty, but I can see why they cancelled it. Felt more like a vehicle for the pretty graphics than anything else. Decidedly average game, but maybe you can get some enjoyment out of it.
Kind of what I was expecting, and why I held out on a preorder...
Seems like a low tier Liquid Kids.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Guys, the 2021 game is not supposed to be exactly like the original arcade game (which at least got two very different versions). I've read they even changed the original name for this release.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Jeneki »

You know a game means business when the basic attack is an open-handed slap.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

Udderdude wrote:ohfivepro 1cc of Clockwork Aquario. That was fast. Guess this is another reason it failed the location tests .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp5h8OIf6tU

Anyway, it certainty looks pretty, but I can see why they cancelled it. Felt more like a vehicle for the pretty graphics than anything else. Decidedly average game, but maybe you can get some enjoyment out of it.
That's pretty disappointing! It makes sense that things would turn out this way but I enjoyed believing that a would-be all-time classic was about to finally get its chance to shine.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Still haven't bested Magnus, getting there pretty frequently though. Last part of the final stage
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gives off major Bionic Commando vibes.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Turrican »

Thanks for this. I suppose it's fine to assume that Dragon Amulet, Mystic Lamp and Holy Gem are absent from both the home versions?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by copy-paster »

What are good MS4 safest strat replays to copymonkey? would use as reference to serious derust someday. Oh yeah I also have NG1 nomiss debt which I haven't do as for now, been grueling with Gradius IV on hardest mode lately.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Mike Uyama's old MS4 speedrun should be good; found here. (no disrespect intended to Mike; he's remarked at his Slug runs from BITD being on the safer side)

Also fuck that "worst Slug" noise in the page header. MS4's easily on par with Nazca for stage+boss design. Image (eh, was a long time ago. Mike knew what was up, at any rate.)

For Mission 5, probably the game's toughest (or at least its stingiest with ammo), my current run is very safe, shamefully so in fact. :mrgreen: Take the lower route (cargo elevator) to avoid some very tricky Grenadier+Tank pincers. Reaching the boss with lots of HMG is a good idea, so you can counteract its horizontal missiles.

Mission 4 is the opposite - take the high route to avoid MUMMYMAGEDDON. I still want to go back and try no-missing those - they're nearly as prestigiously tough as MS3's dreaded Unit 7 route.

Also, for the Final Mission wire descent, while mine looks flashy, it's geared for a quick getaway. Very safe and repeatable once rehearsed, imo. Grenade those snipers as shown, to unlock the screen without releasing that irritating Drop Shot from its crate, then go go go. Enemy Chaser will massacre the otherwise-awkward final sniper nest; easy to nab the Shotgun after.

MS4's second, third and fifth bosses are so badass. The second (tower) arguably goes a bit too far into memo-or-die; you can really screw yourself without knowing it, if you take out the wrong segments / lose your armaments. But it comes good on mastery; a good route has the palpable satisfaction of wrestling a raging metal motherfucker by its horns, and the screen-juddering violence as each segment crashes down is biblical. Image Third (tank) is classic multi-tasker; a selection of individually trifling, collectively harrowing threats, with an excellent spacing game in its bull charges. Fifth (sub+zep) is a unique hybrid of icily pixel-perfect footwork and balls-to-wall aggression - letting the zep's missiles drive you back is death, gotta deftly carve a path through. Noise Factory did really well with MS4.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

Metal Slug 4 is a great game. I haven't played it for a few years, so I don't remember all that much. But what I recall about it, is the game is very much a return to form. It had more military elements compared to the fantastical concepts in MS3. I'm also not a huge fan of MS3 (primarily because of length,) but I think MS4 is a little less long and less tedious at the final stretch. Don't quote me on that one, because I might be remembering wrong or confusing it with 5.

There's nothing wrong with Metal Slug 4 at all. Super fun game and I believe it was the first game to have the dual uzis, which is my favorite weapon in the entire series. MS4 feels like more Metal Slug 1, which is great since Metal Slug 1 is my favorite Metal Slug game.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

I think MS4's smaller-scale military action (it is indeed significantly shorter than MS3 - all of the Neo Slugs are, by a good 10/15 minutes, depending on your MS3 route) would've gone over great, had Noise Factory just had the benefit of new art assets. MS5's new art generally isn't as brilliant as Nazca's (whose is?), but it does consistently feels like a brand-new Slug, as opposed to a remarkably well-done pastiche/mission pack. That's my only complaint with MS4, though, and it's easy to forget in the thick of it.

Eri's crouch SMG animation is the cutest thing in hardcore scrolling death-dealing. :mrgreen:

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EDIT: Oho, nice. :o ACA Dragon Buster out tonight/tomorrow (JP/US). Gonna get down to it trap Image

On one hand, I want 'em to bust out really under-repped stuff like FINEST HOUR (could suck for all I know, but I get rad proto-Leynos vibes... and I'm still annoyed at Formation Z snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, on that front, with its SHA-WEEET heavy mech concept but STAAANK controls! God damn! Those are the worst, cool mechas in shitty games! see also PCE-CD mishap BROWNING, which also squandered a rad name!).

On the other, I never had the time to really sit down with more esoteric stuff like Genpei and DB, when I was hoovering up imports BITD. I won't have time later on either, actually. PLUS old age is no guarantee! You might get ran over by the garbage truck, or hit by an HIV moth, or some other woeful fate. Image So this is p. convenient Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

MS4 looks like an absurd rom hack right out of the gate, and it's really impossible for me to abstract from that. I just got a cheap MVS cart with the game, so maybe I'll give it some chances now, but it'll definitely take some acclimatization.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

A lot of the time it looks like SHEEEEIT unfortunately. :sad: Stage 1 (lower) BG - the fuck is that? It look like where me take FOOKING WHIPPET for he FOOKING WALK! :evil: They are AVIN A LARF SUMEZ Image Stage design is great though. :cool: Ravenous carnage on par with MSX, and with significantly less slowdown, too.

SOLDIER BOY (■`w´■)
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MADE OF CLAY (■`w´■)
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BRED 2 KILL THEM ALL (■`w´■)
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As a product, MS4 most definitely doesn't have the Nazca Slugs' artistry, at all.

Whoa! Burimey! (◎w◎;)
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THATS SO AMAZIN (`w´メ)
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HE GETTING OUT HE HOG Image Image


It's a gunmetal/asphalt mission pack with a noticeably steeper difficulty curve, and a relatively low-key finale. It's entirely competent in that sphere, though. Only thing I'd change is Mission 5 not having quite enough heavy weapons on either route, gets plinky.
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