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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:38 am 


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Violent Maze Chasing to come again! :cool:

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Arcade Archives: Raimais out tomorrow. Really cool game, worth a look even if you don't normally dig the subgenre. Great writeup by zerochan @ gaming.moe
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:18 am 


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Typical pre 1 CC run, get boss down to one hit. Got grabbed.

Last stage seems to have rank if you get there with two lives in reserve, fair bit more bigger mooks spawned.

Stage four getting easier.

I did figure out how to disarm the stage three boss without taking a hit.

Sooooooon
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:07 am 


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What game are you playing though? :P


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:32 am 


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Vigilante

Trap15 provided some great insight to how the bosses work (my biggest hurdle upon coming back was towards the end of stage four and the final boss) and another poster asking about made me want to give it a proper go.

Even though I've reached the last boss in the past I just presumed he was some grade A arcade bullshit. He really isn't, but he also isn't a master class in design - he falls to the same method of wash, rinse, repeat as bosses three and four. The execution barrier is just a little higher (and he hits harder than boss 3/4) and the hardest part of the fight is definitely the opening, especially if you don't know what to do.

Still not as good as Spartan, but definitely a tier up in my eyes now.

Edit - Cleared. There's only one loop. Kind of kills any interest in replaying it long term. 1 LC maybe? But honestly hot interested.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:46 am 


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Stevens wrote:
Still not as good as Spartan, but definitely a tier up in my eyes now.

Glad you were able to find the enjoyment in it! It's definitely not as well designed as Spartan X for sure, but I think I still like Vigilante a bit better just because of the theme and aesthetic features (great graphics, especially with proper gamma, and great music).

Going a bit more primitive, for folks that enjoy these types of simple single-plane beat em ups, I also really like My Hero. The SMS port is somewhat interesting but lacks a lot of the content of the arcade version, which is incredibly cool and has a lot of variety for something so early and simple. Trying to get the partner to the end of a stage without them dying is a really interesting challenge that makes even the early stages quite engaging.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:22 pm 



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Is it just me, or does the Kunio and Double Dragon Collection have a lot of lag? I got it for switch because it was on sale and I love Kunio-kun, but this shit feels wack. River City Ransom feels delayed compared to the other versions I've played. I'm not normally someone who notices a lot of lag when I play games. But it definitely feels laggy. I haven't seen anyone else on the internet mention lag, except one post on a gamefaqs message board. I wish people who talk about these ports would lag test them. I can't say for certain the collection IS laggy because I haven't done the testing. But I have RCR on my 3ds and I can certainly compare which one feels more responsive.

Maybe the problem is I was trying to play the "new and improved" versions? Perhaps something in the process of scaling up the games causes a shit-ton of lag? I'll have to go compare that now.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:55 pm 


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I briefly had the PS4 version - I thought it felt slightly laggy in the games I'm most familiar with on hardware, Double Dragon I & II. Not unplayable, but noticeable.

Moreover, it contains only the inferior NES version of DDII - which pissed me off, as I'd specifically gotten the JP collection for Famicom DD2. :/ So between all that I deleted it.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:21 pm 



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Okay, so I had a chance to try a few more games in a few more modes. I think the "improved" mode does feel slightly more laggy. I compared all versions of River City Ransom and felt the improved mode was laggier. Then I played a quick game of super dodgeball (cleared on easy) and it seemed fine.

I know the improved mode of the games removes the sprite flicker limitation. I guess the question is how it does this. Maybe the lag is all in my brain and all the versions are the same.

Button mapping in the collection is also a huge pain in the ass, since you can't map by game but have to set the mappings for all games simultaneously, and the default puts start and select on y and x.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:51 pm 


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FC DD1 has always felt like it's got a degree of innate lag to me, particularly on Billy's movement (real cart + Famicom on my old-ass CRT). Not enough to interfere with gameplay, but I could imagine it getting really annoying with subpar emulation piling on more frames.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:30 pm 


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Emulation did seem to be better with the versions available for switch online. I downloaded the Famicom Switch Online pack from the JP store, which has the JP DD2, IIRC. One thing I did like about the Kunio collection is that the JP games in it are translated into English. Definitely felt like there was more lag in the Kunio Collection than Switch Online, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:59 am 


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I think I'm beginning to warm up to Curse of the Moon 2, or maybe it's just stockholm syndrome.

The game really forces you to play through it multiple times and, damn if it isn't kind of sneaky. Because it keeps dangling enough new evolutions of itself to keep things mildly fresh every time, but in doing so it teaches the player to get really damn familiar with the stages, bosses, enemy patterns and the various sorts of challenges it will throw at you. Almost like if you were playing an arcade game.
Every time you replay a stage with a new set of characters, you'll be able to take other paths through it, which will often leads to a different sets of powerups (basically taking a cue from the similar aspect in COTM1, but this time designed for much more variation in your routes through the game), but those paths also take you to similar but harder challenges, basically ramping up the difficulty of the same stages based on the route you pick.

Basically the sequence of playthroughs is as such:

1. Episode 1, the "Normal game", unlocking each of the three new characters on the first three stages, to complete the game with a party of four.
2. Episode 2, start the game with three of those characters, but missing the most versatile character who could also heal the others. Bosses are a lot harder this time, and there's a different final stage with a new final boss.
3. Final Episode, select stages in any order, each unlocking one of six characters including the three new ones, and the three from the previous game. Surprisingly even with this huge party, this still manages to be even more challenging than Ep2. Once all are gathered, play through a
Spoiler: show
surprisingly alright shmup stage to go to the moon
for a pretty epic final stage where each characters powers comes to their right, and yet another True Last Boss (TM).
4. Episode 2 again, because apparently getting the bad ending unlocks a separate episode which can also unlock the final one. The weird thing is that, although the bad ending is easier because Zangetsu stays quite overpowered, it's also almost impossible to end up with on your first playthrough, because the items you need for the good one are literally right in your path, and entering the room which downgrades Zangetsu will just do that right away, giving you no choice in the matter. I actually accidentally entered it (it's not really marked), and had to quickly quit the game during the cutscene to reset the stage before the game saved my progress.
5. Episode EX. This is the intermediate mode unlocked by the bad ending, in which you play with a party of just the COTM1 characters, and end with the same final boss as Ep2. It feels a little superfluous compared to the final episode, but it's still fun being forced to rethink approaches you had previously tailored for other characters.
6. Final Episode again, but for a much cooler reason. Somewhat similar to COTM1, this mode actually gives you the option to play it as solo Zangetsu, though you only play one stage (the one that doesn't unlock other characters) and then go immediately to the final stage. Surprisingly that stage actually works quite will even with only Zangetsu, and getting through it results in the true, true final boss. It's a variation on the same fight, but framed as a much more epic showdown, and a pretty satisfying finale to the game.
7. Single mode! Once Final ep. solo challenge has been beaten, you can play the full game with either Ep1 or Ep2 bosses as only one of any of the game's characters. I'm pretty sure some of them are just a suicide mission (especially Robert), but I'm replaying the whole game as only Zangetsu now and I have to admit that once you become sufficiently familiar with the game, he's actually perfectly capable of handling every room well, as long as you rely well on his subweapons. I'm still bothered by the patience the game requires for a lot of its enemies, but overall it's a sort of mastery that feels quite satisfying when you flawlessly run through a stage (or just a series of rooms)


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:25 am 



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BIL wrote:
FC DD1 has always felt like it's got a degree of innate lag to me, particularly on Billy's movement (real cart + Famicom on my old-ass CRT). Not enough to interfere with gameplay, but I could imagine it getting really annoying with subpar emulation piling on more frames.

That does make sense. I was wondering if some of the "lag" I was feeling had to do with the original games. If you're saying you can feel lag on a real cart of Double Dragon 1, on a famicom running on CRT, then I'm going to assume Double Dragon is hella laggy by default. DD was the first game in this collection where I noticed lag, too.

I'm going to have to dig out my 3ds to see if the emulation on that edition of RCR really feels better or if I'm remembering wrong.

One positive of translating the japanese games into english is now there's no reason to play River City Ransom vs Downtown Super Kunio World, unless you just like the localization changes for whatever reason. I think the localization is pretty good for NES-era work, but I prefer the banchos in their school uniforms.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:12 pm 


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Sima Tuna wrote:

One positive of translating the japanese games into english is now there's no reason to play River City Ransom vs Downtown Super Kunio World, unless you just like the localization changes for whatever reason. I think the localization is pretty good for NES-era work, but I prefer the banchos in their school uniforms.


It's not just you, I far prefer Kunio Kun to Renegade. Although I miss the latter's "Good Luck Kid" I think Kunio plays a bit better. It feels like a little more than just a graphical overhaul for the west. I think it is perhaps a bit easier. Renegade feels more difficult, but not for the right reasons.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:51 pm 


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Gents, I've officially stared too long into the IREM, for it has stared back :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:41 pm 


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You should get that seen by a doctor.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:46 pm 


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Udderdude wrote:
You should get that seen by a doctor.


Some call it a curse. I call it a gift.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:59 am 


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Jeez, this game does not fuck around.

Cleared Single Mode with Zangetsu and proved to myself that the powers of the other characters aren't really required for any segments in the game.
Like COTM1, when playing as Zangetsu without any upgrades or help from his friends, Inti Creates sneakily designed the stages in a way that he won't be able to pick up any single powerup along the way and has to beat every stage and boss completely unpowered.

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This is much harder than the first game, and I definitely died a ton along the way, especially around the last three bosses (though surprisingly the room before Gremory turned out to be a bigger issue than Gremory herself).
Zangetsu's sword is easy to underestimate due to its short range, but its speed and precision is as satisfying to control as in the first game, and I can't really think of any other game that replicates the feeling of the Ninja Gaiden sword this well. He's not as versatile as any of the other characters, but the two utility subweapons he has can really carry him a long way if you plan around every single encounter in the game.

I do think though, that the toughest rooms in the game demand such a painstakingly rote rehearsal and reenactment of the optimal approach through them, that it almost robs the player of any possibility to rely on their own skill twitch reactions. It's a fine balance, and like MM9 and 10 before it, this game really teeters a bit too far on the wrong side of it IMO. I won't deny though, that beating the game with just Zangetsu feels incredibly satisfying.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:34 am 


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Udderdude wrote:
You should get that seen by a doctor.


Rastan78 wrote:
Some call it a curse. I call it a gift.


Nothing a quick sabbatical can't fix Image

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PCE ver has markedly less dicks! :o

Sumez wrote:
Zangetsu's sword is easy to underestimate due to its short range, but its speed and precision is as satisfying to control as in the first game, and I can't really think of any other game that replicates the feeling of the Ninja Gaiden sword this well.


God damn, that perks me boner right up Image I thought my one normal (and very rushed) playthrough of COTM1 was aight, my fondest memory going to some exceptionally good BGMs - but I was really digging the sequel's opening areas. Then I got distracted! Been eyeing it for a rainy day. Great postage, marked for index!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:16 pm 


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Clockwork Aquario finally has a release date .. less than a week away from release. lol https://twitter.com/ININ_Games/status/1 ... 6221722637

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Coming to Nintendo Switch and PS4 on November 30th in Europe and on December 14th in North America.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:13 pm 


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Anyone gonna pick that up and be the first to make a judgement on whether it's "worthy"? :D
I'm really interested in the game, but it could easily turn out to be awful.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:48 am 


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From the video, it looks pretty good to me. You could always wait for it to get added to MAME.

(For the sarcasm impaired: This is a joke. It probably isn't even being emulated.)


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:07 am 


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Politics aside, the System 18 hardware is reasonably well emulated in MAME, so wouldn't it be able to run the mostly complete version of Clockwork that was supposedly used for location testing in 1993?
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:40 am 


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Finally pulled off a 3 loop clear of Gunforce II/GeoStorm, the more visceral but less-refined predecessor of Metal Slug.

A lot to love about this one... not that it's possible to not admire a game with Predators on motorcycles, bikini girl snipers assisting you from helicopters, and fire-breathing titty reapers on some level, but I digress. Aesthetically of course, it's top quality, as to be expected of a proto-Nazca work. The duel-wielding mechanic takes a bit to get used to (your main gun fires whichever direction you're facing, but the subweapon oftentimes has to be 'coaxed' into the desired position.) The fact that RNG governs not only most weapon drops, but certain enemy formations as well keeps things fresh upon multiple playthroughs. Combine that with only being allowed one death per credit, and you're gonna have to put in a little work for that 1CC. Thankfully, between the lack of contact damage, the plethora of armored vehicles the game vomits at you, and the passiveness of most enemies (at least in the first loop), the odds are definitely in your favor.

One caveat, however: the game had a bit of a troubled development cycle (for the excruciating details, pop this into DeepL,) and as such, exhibits several telltale signs of a rushed product. When you're first learning Gunforce II, you will, at times, die to things that are 100% not your fault. This is a very, well, programmed, game. (I was unable to capture my favorite glitch, sadly, but this should illustrate well enough what you're in for!)

Couple miscellaneous bullet points to throw out there:

- So you know how the one drawback of the good RNG-drop mech in Stage 1 is the brief cooldown when it's spitting out the shell? You can cancel the animation by simply turning in the opposite direction.
- There's a quick-kill strat for the Stage 1 boss, if you make it to him with Boosted Laser. (There's zero reason to do this other than for style, as you only get the Laser drop if you were given one of the non-shit weapon drops beforehand...)
- Scoring in this game boils down to, apart from reaching Marshall rank as soon as possible + never dying, doing some variation of this every loop. I'll leave it up to you to decide if that's any better or worse than MS1 scoring. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:26 am 


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Nicely done. :cool: Marked for index! I've wondered about GeoStorm's dev cycle... IIRC, isn't its whole OST outtakes from Air Duel? IREM mk1 must've been on the way out by '94. Of course, even HIYA!'s b-sides are better than average composers' Best Ofs. The big, obnoxious flame-spewing leitmotif that crashes back in now and then never fails to fire me up for a bit of the ol' stock scream-riven ultraviolence. Image Image

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:25 pm 


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BIL wrote:
isn't its whole OST outtakes from Air Duel?

Not even outtakes but just an arrangement of that soundtrack entirely. I don't think there are any new songs at all, even. Of course, the new arrangement is very good, but it's still just that...
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:40 pm 


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Interesting... I wonder if that's the only case of its kind, at least among major-league arcade devs? Can't recall another pair of unrelated games sharing arrangements of the same OST. Although I recall one Nazca member describing Geostorm as "Air Duel's ground campaign," haha. EDIT: Here we are, seems it may have been Hiya himself. :mrgreen:

Quote:
On the music: The composer was brought in midway through development and didn’t have the time to make a brand new soundtrack. He saw the game and interpreted it as “the ground front of Air Duel”, and asked if he could just rearrange the tunes from that game, which the director accepted. [Incidentally, Air Duel would also find some of its themes rearranged in the Metal Slug series]


Loved this last bit:

Quote:
On the name: Some think the “Gunforce II” name was the doing of the US distributor, because the game is named “GeoStorm” in Japan and it doesn’t resemble the original Gunforce much, but that’s not the case at all. The game was always intended to be a sequel to Gunforce because that game was a success in the US (see the sale numbers above) and Irem wanted to make a game to help the ailing USA division.

So why the “GeoStorm” name? Well, late in development, the director (Meeher) came in and announced the name of the game was now GeoStorm. He was close friend with the main composer (HIYA!), and as it turns out, Hiya’s car was a Geo Storm 8. Really.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:58 pm 


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Haha wow, that's incredible. Both the name and the reason for the music. Nazca dudes owned.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:54 pm 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
Politics aside, the System 18 hardware is reasonably well emulated in MAME, so wouldn't it be able to run the mostly complete version of Clockwork that was supposedly used for location testing in 1993?


No reason it couldn't. But I have a feeling you're not getting the ROMs anyway. It's probably a complete remake from the ground up, which is why it took so long, aside from the missing art and music assets.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:57 am 


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Imagine naming your game after one of the coolest cars ever made, but also one that isn't actually sold by that name where you live.

Those cars are kinda rare now too, especially the original Impulse version.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:22 am 


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Ok, so I gave Steel Assault a quick waltz through the Normal mode the other day. Quite easy, as expected... then started Expert and promptly got my ass handed to me, only making it up to stage 3 before putting the game down. Obviously there's a lot of trial and error with this game, particularly proper zipline placement, but I felt like I kept fudging the controls. Has anyone tried the game with an arcade stick, or even an MD style controller? I feel like it's difficult to play using 3 buttons that require constant quick response on a standard 4 face-button style setup.

As for the design of the game, I like it, but I think for expert mode I would have enjoyed something a little more Ninja Gaiden or Castlevania-esque where you get your standard 3 lives after continuing. Yes, the stages are very short, but having to start from the beginning of each is kind of a pain when you're trying to practice a boss. I know I'm just being a bitch here, and yes, you can obviously use Normal mode to practice that way, but I think a lives option would have been quite nice. My other beef is with the enemy telegraphing — sometimes it just seems like there isn't quite enough of it. I like the game quite a bit, but I think Blazing Chrome and particularly Cuphead still slightly outdo it for me. I think Cyber Shadow does, too. Am I missing something here?
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We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.


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