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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:08 am 


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You can go all the way to the final boss without needing to grind. The game is much more about proper tactics than higher stats.
I also enabled the draconian option that effectively prevents grinding, and it makes enemy EXP drop off super fast.
It's kinda weirdly balanced though, I probably wouldn't recommend it.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:23 am 


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I dunno bro I rushed to Tricky Devil and he tore me a new one.
I could've beaten him if i'd plowed through my entire stock of healing herbs but I didn't feel like doing that.
I grinded like two levels and used the forge a lot and nothing's bothered me since (i'm at door of departure)

I'm just gonna take a fight now and then, i guess?

Turning on the tough monsters thing has.. made it feel like a video game again :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:49 pm 



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Marc wrote:
I didn't even know Ryo was in it! You learn something every day.
When I had my own Neo, I became decidedly obsessed with Art of Fighting 2 for a while, managed to get to a point where I could cheese my way to the last boss on a regular basis, but I remember that being a right cheap asshole. Not the smoothest of games, but damn it has style.


Ah-ah, then you must know that in AOF2, if you also deliver a 2-0 to all the adversaries, you fly to a mysterious tower after defeating Mr. Big and fight against a much younger Geese Howard. The "true final boss & ending" in this case explains that AOF2 is a prequel to FF and KOF, as it presents events taking place 10 years or so before FF (i.e. Jeff Bogard is still alive, Takuma Sakazaki is working to frame a younger Howard who is already a highly corrupt bastard, and so on).

Geese in AOF2 is also an absurdly cheap bastard, of course, but then again all early SNK fighting games were like that.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:14 pm 


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While we're filling people in on the well-trod ground that is SNK lore, I'd also like to add that while AOF2 is clearly a prequel to FF, KOF is more or less confirmed to take place in a different timeline where Ryo and Terry are the same age and Geese is still alive.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:54 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
I could've beaten him if i'd plowed through my entire stock of healing herbs but I didn't feel like doing that.
I grinded like two levels and used the forge a lot and nothing's bothered me since (i'm at door of departure)

Oh yeah I guess is you count proper preparation and acquiring or crafting useful equipment for certain fights and stuff, then yeah. There are also a few fights that I postponed to go and do other stuff, and then return later.
But I think that's quite different, and feels more rewarding than just stopping what you're doing to kill enemies in one place.
Early on you don't have as many tactical and strategic options, but it'll grow for sure.

Quote:

Turning on the tough monsters thing has.. made it feel like a video game again :lol:

Hell yea, preach!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:43 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne.


It is happening again.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:29 pm 


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NiGHTS Into Dreams HD (XBLA). When I was younger I always really wanted to play this, but never had a Saturn. I sort of doubt that I would have appreciated the score attack nature of it back then. It's generally been pretty fun, though sometimes the cameras can be kind of wacky (especially any of the chase-view segments), and I'm really bad a dodging projectiles. This seems kind of ironic considering that I play shmups, but I guess I'm also not usually trying to move toward an enemy who is firing aimed shots in a shmup (in this case to try to get rid of that boss' cape). Also having trouble paralooping bosses (where relevant). Currently both Elliot and Claris are stuck on the S4 bosses. I still love the art direction, and there's some sick music, as well. Makes me also want to revisit Rez HD some time soon.

I'm impressed that the scoring system actually seems not tacked on, as that's pretty rare outside of shmups (or maybe puzzle games), and especially in console games. Watching high level play is actually pretty cool in this one (minus the cheesy glitch where you run into the ground during the tricks sections).
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:30 am 


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Blinge wrote:
It's a slow burn at the beginning. Once I hit Greenpath my tune changed.

Also the map thing is interesting in that your whole objective in a new area is tentatively searching for the vendor - Your whole purpose there is immediately changed when you find him and the game goes back to your regular metroidvania mentality of " I'm exploring, nothing can really threaten me."

Then later when it comes to updating the map, you may be deep into a new area and faced with the risk/reward of press on? or retreat to use a bench and bank all that map progress. Although i think if you die it all gets updated anyway as you respawn on a bench..

I assume you bought the quill, so the lil knight can add to the map, right?

Having to get your geo back when you die is still less harsh than Sotn or smet where a death kills all your progress and sends you back to the last save?


It's easier in some ways and harder in others. I got the map and I've mostly got a grasp on the map system now. I've pressed on and I'm enjoying it more. I did fight one boss for quite a while that seemed almost impossible but it turns out its an optional super boss. Would have been nice to have a warning. I do enjoy discovering the NPCs and watching the village grow. The game has quite a bit of personality. I just think I heard too much hype about it beforehand and it doesn't quite reach those highs for me. It'd maybe be a 3.5 or 4 out of 5 so far?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:49 am 


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I'm in the same boat, though maybe not as critical. Hollow Knight is a great game, but the incredible hype around it probably had me expecting something more, or rather something less derivative.
I agree its best (or most unique) quality is probably its world and personality. It's just an incredibly cute game in its own strange way.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:30 am 


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It is a better game than Super Metroid.

To Far Away Times wrote:
I did fight one boss for quite a while that seemed almost impossible but it turns out its an optional super boss. Would have been nice to have a warning.


... who, Zote the Mighty?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:58 am 



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WelshMegalodon wrote:
While we're filling people in on the well-trod ground that is SNK lore, I'd also like to add that while AOF2 is clearly a prequel to FF, KOF is more or less confirmed to take place in a different timeline where Ryo and Terry are the same age and Geese is still alive.


Ah, yes, the ex-IREM guys not receiving the memo about SNK continuity, right? I also remember that SNK at some point was planning a game centred around Geese, with a younger Takuma and Jeff Bogard, but it was ultimately scrapped (such a shame...).
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:13 am 


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Gonna bring up Wonder Boy in Monster Land again.
Vanguard, Herr Schatten, WelshMegalodon, and so on, you guys still here?

So I foolishly agreed to do a 1CC run of the game at a streaming event in a couple of months (nothing high level, just some local friends wanting to do an arcade demonstration thing), so I've been making a bunch of notes and mapping out a reliable equipment route that doesn't require too much succesful waggle to still work consistently, and so on.

I can clear the game easy enough, but there's a lot that can potentially go wrong. Both in terms of personally messing up, but also poor luck in terms of the drops you're getting and of course how much money you're able to collect. On two seperate runs I manage to screw it up by forgetting to pick up the whistle from the hidden door above a bar.
Generally though, I have some decent backup plans for most places, and I made sure to note every location you can get a medicine bottle back in case I screw up so badly that I lose one.

But the final stage really got me! It seems like it can go perfectly well or completely poorly through no fault of my own.
You're guaranteed to go in with full HP and a medicine due to the shops in the area preceeding it, but the timer alone will make sure you lose multiple hearts throughout it, and even a very succesful Hobgoblin fight with the safety of spamming him with magic can still rob you of quite a few more, which means I'll very likely use up my medicine shortly after the climb with the falling platforms.
The only place in the dungeon you seem to be somewhat guaranteed getting a few hearts back is on the final drop with the purple and yellow bats. I can beat the final boss quite consistently, but on at least a few runs it's been way too close to comfort due to getting practically no healing throughout the entirety of the final stage, and I lost a few runs before even getting to the boss.

So if I'm going to be able to do this, I really need a way to mitigate luck on the final stage. Any tips from knowledgeable people? Any way to manipulate drop RNG? Any way to ensure heart drops? Any alternate way to backtrack through the maze to get some life back? Any hidden hourglasses I don't know about? >_<


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:45 am 


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I'm much less familiar with the arcade original than the SMS version, but if I recall correctly, you're not actually supposed to fight the recurring bosses in the last level. Just dashing past them should save quite some time (and hearts).


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:12 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
It is a better game than Super Metroid.


This was bad bait btw guys, well done for not taking it :lol:
i just prefer hollow knight personally.

Big Sumez you'd better let us know when the event is on closer to the time, i'm down to watch.
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Last edited by Blinge on Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:28 pm 


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I've fallen for your bait enough times to know not to bother. :P

Event is scheduled for 14th of August I think. Maybe 13th as well depending on how many runs will be included. I'll be doing Rainbow Islands, too. And maybe I'll throw in some EZmodo scrub-shmup like DeathSmiles or something that I won't need to practice for.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:30 pm 


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Herr Schatten wrote:
I'm much less familiar with the arcade original than the SMS version, but if I recall correctly, you're not actually supposed to fight the recurring bosses in the last level. Just dashing past them should save quite some time (and hearts).

Definitely a no-go on arcade. You can skip the fireball demon by bouncing over him, but you'll probably take more hits doing that than just fighting him at that point.
But the Kraken and Hobgoblin need to be fought, the platform rising up from that hallway won't appear until those two and four smaller skeletons are dead.

The hallway with all the ghosts/wisps in it can be repeated fairly quickly, I'm going to see on my next attempt if doing that a few times might prompt some of them to drop extra hearts.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:20 pm 


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Monkey Ball Banana Blitz on Wii (with motion control) and Switch (analogue stick with hardened levels).

Trying to 1CC each of worlds 1 - 8 on Wii so I can unlock worlds 9 and 10 . Sheesh. Once you hit World 6 it becomes a nightmare.

Switch doesn't require you to 1CC worlds but the level hardening for the analogue is nightmarish. They have included a survival mode for those who still want the 1CC challenge except it's multi world on 1 life only!! :)

Solid games but Sega added in boss fights which are random and annoying no matter what control scheme you use. Sigh.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:54 pm 


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Not sure if anyone cares, but I found out you can easily just ride the first vertical tunnel with the bats forever. Going left instead of right just keeps repeating the same tunnel, every bat respawning and getting drops again. They'll mostly drop high valued point items, but occasionally one drops a heart, which also resets your current hourglass, so even one single heart can really turn the tide of things in this dungeon.

But the point items they drop will probably also take you very quickly to the next 100K score, and even if you have full max HP, doing so still heals you one heart. And, I could be wrong, but it seems going above the highest possible max HP will increase how much the medicine heals you for, so essentially it's still equivalent to getting one more max heart?
This hallway is really super cheap, it's such an easy way to point press, and if I'm not mistaken it seems like you can easily just ride it forever? Being such a blatant exploit, it feels bad to even repeat it once, but I think it's fair game to at least go until you regain one heart.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:28 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Gonna bring up Wonder Boy in Monster Land again.
Vanguard, Herr Schatten, WelshMegalodon, and so on, you guys still here?

afaik there's no way to avoid taking a bunch of timer damage aside from luck. I'm not especially knowledgeable though.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:52 am 



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Sumez wrote:
Gonna bring up Wonder Boy in Monster Land again.
Vanguard, Herr Schatten, WelshMegalodon, and so on, you guys still here?


I can 1-CC this any time I play it. I will take some notes over the weekend and share them, unless you specifically want them from the people above and you don't trust me :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:11 am 


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Randorama wrote:
I can 1-CC this any time I play it. I will take some notes over the weekend and share them, unless you specifically want them from the people above and you don't trust me :wink:

Lol I was just calling out the people who were talking about it a few posts ago. :P

I think I got a completely reliable route for a consistent 1CC down now, but I'd be really interested in hearing your notes, too.
Here's my rough approach:

Spoiler: show
Positioning myself on top of the tree at the start of round 2 and get hit by the myconoid for a guaranteed 60+ coin. Along with at least one other successful waggle I should be able to afford the tier 2 shield immediately, and a batch of 5 whirlwinds.
Using those whirlwinds I'm fairly certain to get 5-6 additional 60+ coins at key locations throughout the rest of the stage.
Also pick up tier 2 boots before the end of it.

Buy the cheapest armor on round 4, and get the heavy armor (100 coins) and best shield on round 4. This should allow me to buy the best armor by the pyramid at the latest.

Obviously fight both the round 4 and 7 bosses twice (kraken/knight) for extra money.

In the "ice palace", enter every hidden door and buy all the stuff for sale, wing boots especially will help sailing through most of the dungeon, with no issue, and whirlwinds mess up the boss real good.

Before entering the final stage, make sure to be stocked up on medicine, and heal up at the hospital after the boss fight, to enter the last stage with full health.

Get a heart or two from the repeatable bats on the final stage as mentioned a few posts above :D

Recorded a video of it here, seems quite consistent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi2h3P5m_QY


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:07 pm 


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Following Stevens' non-recomendation, I bought Griftlands on the Nintendo Switch.

I see why the RPG elements may be annoying. I just use the skip button, exhaust all dialog until prompted to either fight or negotiate and go straight to the point.

This is my first deckbuilding game on consoles. Having played a lot of Magic the Gathering in my young years, I find here the same kind of satisfaction : be happy when you get a good card, balance your deck, think well before playing.
So for now this is fun, don't know how it will last in the long run.

Also worth noting that Slay the Spire is -50% (along with many other titles) on the eshop, so I might be tempted by this one too, hopefully not to burn the card desire too soon.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:28 pm 


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Currently replaying EDF 4.1; good times! It's interesting how some class of weapons start off useful but drop off later on because their late game variants simply aren't strong enough, or how early weapons such because range is poor, but eventually get enough range to be competitive options.

Also running Final Fantasy 1 NES, no weapons run. Tried this initially with 4 white mages (to maximize charges of MUTE and CUR4 for the endgame bosses) but a recent discovery that enemies classified as "regenerating" do regenerate 3 HP each turn correctly (which thought to be bugged) meant that several encounters became way more of a hassle for the team than necessary. One later boss regenerates health which will require more physical offense to deal with in a timely fashion (max level WWs get 2 hits at level 50 barehanded), so currently sacrificing some raw healing potential for a bit of extra physical oomph with Fi/RM/WM/WM currently.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:35 pm 


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From time to time I still hear people saying the original Saturn Daytona plays better than any subsequent versions, including JP Daytona CE. I've been playing a bunch of CE the last few days and I thought I'd pop in the original for comparison now that I felt I had a decent handle on how the revision feels.

I went right to Seaside Galaxy, because that's what I'd been working on in CE. It barely functions. At the beginning with multiple cars on screen the framerate was clearly in the single digits. I can see why people might like the physics better on Three Seven Speedway and maybe even Dinosaur Canyon, it's definitely easier to stay on the track than in CE. But I don't know that it's actually better overall. On Seaside in tight corners I noticed the car seemed to turn on an axis at times. It felt like the car physics were a fair bit simpler; I was used to a certain back & forth interplay between accelerator & brakes, and it seemed like it had fewer variables at play in how the car would respond.

Oddly, for as much of a visual upgrade as CE is, the car models and particularly some of the textures appear to have been cut back from the original. The sky reflection in the rear window is much less prominent.

Anyway, I'll probably keep going back & forth between the two in future since they effectively feel like different games. But for now, I think I might prefer how CE plays. It's a bit harder to control the car, but it might be more interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:37 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Final Fantasy 1 NES, no weapons run

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Fi/RM/WM/WM



Are Black Belts not allowed for this kind of run? A weaponless run with three casters and only one Fighter sounds painful.

Are items like the Light Axe and Thor's Hammer also banned, or are you only prevented from equipping them?
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:55 pm 


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Quote:
Are Black Belts not allowed for this kind of run?


Absolutely not. Their fists are considered to be a proper weapon in their own right (unlike going barehanded as another class, their fists have an actual weapon animation), one whose level and damage scales with their level enough that it keeps pace with actual fighting classes very effectively, especially once they reach 4 hits at level 10. At the level cap of 50, the scaling makes Black Belts so ridiculously strong that they will reliably one-shot basically everything they encounter, and they can even potentially one-shot WarMech as well as the final boss. Black Belts are by far the strongest class in the game in terms of damage when you're levelling up aggressively far above what would normally be needed (most teams should be able to beat the game by level 30 or so).

Quote:
Are items like the Light Axe and Thor's Hammer also banned, or are you only prevented from equipping them?


Spells that deal damage or inflict instant kills are not allowed, regardless of what source (MAGIC, ITEM, etc). CONF and FEAR are disallowed as their effects deal damage and work like an instant kill. Spellcasting items are still allowed including weapons, namely the Defense Sword and Heal Staff, so long as they're not actually equipped.

Status spells such as MUTE, DARK, HOLD, and STUN are allowed. If MUTE weren't allowed, the game would be functionally unwinnable against the final boss, as demonstrated in this no weapon playthrough, which resorted to equipping weapons to kill the final boss as well as Astos (who is doable without MUTE but has such a ridiculously high Absorb stat along with dangerous spells that he requires massive overlevelling, like 30+ to do it): https://sullla.com/FF/FFironfists.html

The goal is to beat the game without equipping any weapons at any point, ever. This means that in order to beat the final boss, we need to hit with MUTE, which has a 3/256 chance of hitting a target resistant to status spells. (Side note: I'm not sure the above playthough was aware status resistant bosses can be hit with MUTE and that full immunity doesn't exist in FF1, in which case I totally understand why they'd resort to weapons. Your party isn't immune to spells either even with Ribbons equipped and instant kill stuff like BANE has a 3/256 shot of killing.) The final boss has an absolute boatload of health, a dangerous array of attack spells, and has CUR4 which recovers him back to full health. Without CUR4 it might be doable, but the presence of CUR4 means the only humanly achievable way to beat him without weapons requires hitting him with MUTE and then beating him down from there. The team I'm using can get to the final boss with 31 charges of MUTE (level 2 spells fortunately aren't very valuable otherwise and thus can be saved). It might be doable without MUTE with tool-assistance type RNG manipulation so the final boss does nothing but physical attacks, but I'm not a robot and I'm not using tool-assistance. :P

Allowing status spells like MUTE not only makes the final boss doable without having to make an exception to the rules to allow weapon use, but it also conveniently means I can beat Astos at a more reasonable level early on rather than power levelling to high 20s or early 30s near the beginning of the game just to have a shot of winning. I've done a solo Thief run before (no class change) and I think I needed to get to like 28 to beat Astos. That kind of grinding is painful, ugh.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:27 am 


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Dealt with my GPU issues and now I can play PSO2: New Genesis [PC].
Feels odd. Really odd. Also, the fact that you need to start playing NGS on a character before you can log into original PSO2 is garbage.
I'm kinda disappointed that now that I have a computer I can absolutely FLOOR IT regarding graphics settings [although, my screen is only 1280x1024], the NGS max settings don't seem to go high enough. :lol:
I played Bouncer in PSO2, so now I have a bunch of attacking habits that don't quiiiite match now that I'm playing a Gunner.
I'm also astoundingly not used to locking onto things [since jet boots are homing], which means I'll try and rotate the camera to dodge something while I'm locked on, and end up moving directly into the attack I should have been avoiding. Ow.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:12 am 


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guigui wrote:
Following Stevens' non-recomendation


Hahaha. Gave me a good laugh.

I will start not recommending games I really like. Don't play Fights in Tight Spaces.

:)

Also Jubei. Still a dick.
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:18 pm 


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Definitely keep us posted Roo regarding your FF1 runs. I find that challenge really interesting. Quite a challenhe indeed. I remember as a kid trying ti clear the game with weaker parties. But this is really something, I didn't know this particular run was a thing but now thinking about it, I'd totally try that
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 Post subject: Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:10 pm 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3138
Sumez wrote:

I think I got a completely reliable route for a consistent 1CC down now, but I'd be really interested in hearing your notes, too.
Here's my rough approach:



I have cut the spoiler just to be on the safe side, but generally speaking your route sounds far safer than mine.
I cannot open the video (I am currently in China), but I am wondering if the final boss is giving yoiu trouble.

I ​had a run yesterday and today, and both were 1-CC's.
otnight I just hammered the final boss by getting hit once, and receiving 3-4 tick damage hits (i.e. shield hits, which still deliver some damage).

The more interesting run was yesterday's, because:

Spoiler: show
I only scored one 60+ coin on purpose, on stage 2.
I bought a 40 coins shield on stage 2, then a 120 coins shield on stage 4, and barely managed to buy the legendary (540 coins) armour on stage 6.
I did fight kraken and knight twice, and that was enough to get by.
I did clear stage 9 with the 80 coins boots, which is hilariously tricky but something I am used to.
The labyrinth was easy, in the sense that I was able to get almost to full health via the running mice just before the dragon on both runs.
Generally speaking, though, I did not receive too many hits during the whole final stage, though I cornered the hobgoblin with a tatsumaki as soon as it spawned.


I think that with a route like yours and a solid performance on the final boss, it should be a breeze to 1-CC the game any time, and honestly show off a bit to the spectators during the festival.
Mekadragon is tricky because of all the jumps he makes and the timing necessary to hit his/its head, but otherwise it is not a difficult boss (but those tip-toe jumps are really annoying!).
I remember beating at least once with the 180-coin boots but everything else at legendary level, even.
Is the lad giving you trouble? (...question that I propose since I cannot see the video, sorry!).
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Last edited by Randorama on Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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