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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:59 am 


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When I tried Strider 1 and 2 with the retrotink 5x, I noticed that Strider 2 is interlaced and Strider 1 runs at 384x224 (240?). I looked it up on system16.com and 384x224 is the native CPS1 resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:01 am 


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What's "the" version of ActRaiser 2 to play? It's been decades since I played it - I remember liking it a lot, but I don't remember which version I played at the time.

Based on Perikles' summary of each version, it actually sounds like the PAL version (on Hard, and in 60hz) might be the best "balanced" version? But I'm unsure if they did any changes to make it play "correctly" in 50hz though, and generally try to stay away from PAL releases nowadays.
While a difficult US version sounds tempting, I've often heard people complain about its difficulty, like it's not always in a nice way, but I'm also afraid the Japanese one might be too easy, since they felt the need to make these changes for the overseas version?


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:24 am 


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I've only played JP, which feels juuust right. It can be pretty assholic if you're not exploiting your iframes (The Master is an arse-reaving avenger in learned hands, a lumbering deathtrap for flailers) - so I imagine most of the scrubwhine re: NTSCU would apply there, too. :lol:

If it's any help: PJ DiCesare's invaluable primer, All About ARII I-Frames. Remember, kids! Air To Ground, That Ass You Will Pound :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:25 am 


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Spent some time with ma Ninjas Yaksha and Big Boy Blue.

Yaksha run was ok for a long hiatus. Some slop here and there, and it takes far longer for me to play through. Final stage was a mess like I forgot how to play and then at one point vs. Banglar I just starting killing mooks and forgot about Banglar.

BBB - Wrecked everything up to and including Silverman, who I atomic dropped seven times in a row. Stopped there, but ill play some more today.

Kinda want to go for mad murder machine. Only like 100 seconds off.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:20 pm 


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Pirate Pete is today's arcade archives. Looks like a reskin of Jungle King. I wonder why they chose this version over the more familiar Jungle Hunt.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:27 pm 


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Was just posting about Pete over in Shmups Chat. Odd pick indeed... I assume we'll see the related boards at some point, ala Guzzler/Swimmer. As said over in SC, I've no real attachment to the game itself, and tbh, it feels like a weaker attempt at Circus Charlie's "action/platformer skills test," but it's got enough of that Paleo-Taito appeal that I picked it up.

(bugs the hell outta me that the best game of that batch, The Tin Star, is afflicted by horrendous bullet visibility >w< it rocks, but it's nigh-unreadable)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:32 pm 


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iirc Jungle King has some good ol' down-home copyright infringement with the Tarzan yell, which is why they made Pirate Pete. On some review of Youtube footage, I guess Jungle Hunt was made to be closer to Jungle King without the Tarzan yell, so I guess I couldn't tell you why they made Pirate Pete or why they decided to re-release this version instead.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:05 pm 


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Interesting... I always love those copyright duck n' cover maneuvers. :mrgreen: I'm still impressed Wild Guns Reloaded kept the SFC's Morricone-riffing extend jingle. "The Good, The Bad And The Ugly" must be the most instantly-recognisable snippet in all of Western (oh god, I didn't mean to do that :shock: keepin tho Image) pop culture.

EDIT: I see the title screen is copyright Taito America - guess this may be one of those "new to Japan" picks, ala VS Castlevania.

EDIT2: Man, I could see people absolutely bonering over this BITD. Got a pretty nice cinematic flow. Escape the ship, commando through shark-infested ocean, invade the boobytrapped parallax cave, then save the hot girl with the big tits! Cowabunga! I see the manual mentions "birds" in stage 1, which don't seem to appear on defaults. Guess this might get a bit busier higher up the scoreboard.

Oh god, the birds just kinda hang out on the ropes. Had sine-waving visions of Dracula bats dancing in my head, haha. The actual Dracula birds would've been even better. Shifty pricks.

EDIT3: Jesus, loop 2 ship background X_X forecast is mild chop with thermonuclear holocaust. I swear the colour RAM on these early 80s Taito boards was designed by that one dude who survived both nukes, this is a mild custard yellow to his incomparably rugged vision. >_>

EDIT4: Cranked it all the way up to Difficulty 8, tbh I like this just fine. Colour is easy on the eyes, stage 1 gets some needed complication via birdie, and stage 2 is a nightmare of predatory marine life, haven't knifed so many fish fucks since RE4. Left it there for now - not a scrolling action classic for Taito ala Elevator Action or Kage, but it's pretty aight imo (and a good couple years older than them) - pardon those retina-searing loop colours.

Catching back up, was typing while gaming, a lethal distraction!

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Kinda want to go for mad murder machine. Only like 100 seconds off.


Before getting distracted by a bunch of PS2/onward stuff (I blame that scheissevogel BURINJU (■`W´■)), I was revisiting TNWOA, and noticed I'd missed MMM by something like three seconds as Ninja, before knowing the trophy existed. :mrgreen: Thought I'd record a go of it with Kunoichi, but I kept getting trainwrecked at Jubei. What a slippery bastard! Killing him's not the problem, catching him is. :evil: But as I try to remind myself, isn't it better a game give you a run for your money than roll over and die? Grumble grumble yeah I guess. Imma kill you next time Jubei.

Wicked time attack game, even moreso than the original. Got that new Kiki Kaikai coming out soon, too.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:33 pm 


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MMM unlocked with Ninja!

That happened way faster than I thought it would, especially I hadn't played in months before yesterday.

I cut about five minutes from my time, 2617 to 2322.

That said I am a ways off with anyone else. My best time was with Ninja. Kunoichi was in the 2700's and Yaksha was 2900+.

Atomic drop loop contributed a fair bit I think.

And yeah Jubeis a fucking shit. Only boss that still whoops me now and again.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:45 pm 


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Nice. Image I love that little callback to the OG Ninja Warriors, aka The Immortal Murder Machines Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:26 pm 



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After talking about doing it for nearly 10 years I finally set down and put some dedicated effort into finally doing a no death run of Contra III on hard. To me this was the pinnacle of the series, it's got the perfect level of difficulty and a fair bit of RNG that keeps you on your toes from run to run.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:55 pm 


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Tough run! Lots of twitchy threats in that one, from start to finish. In terms of "Event Rush" sidescrolling, it's high up on my list, just behind Alien Soldier. That balance of pure RNG to patterned attacks is something Hard Corps and Shattered Soldier, while also must-haves in my book, never quite matched. I'd one-lifed/S-Ranked those many years before playing III - while they're definitely tough by console standards, III/Hard's unruly side puts a 1LC in the arcade ballpark.

I know the topdown stages leave a lot of players cold, but I actually kinda like them. Their Assault-style seek/destroy handles just as sharply as the main stages, and they can be totally demolished in ~1min apiece. As for the C+C exploit, while it's not ideal, it's pretty interesting as far as "ultimate weapons" go. Short reach, narrow spread, and long decay heavily offset the high DPS - you need a mastery of stages and bosses to survive, let alone reach its potential. I always caution newbies to stay away from it until they're comfortably clearing Normal, and moreover, not to go nuts on the [switch] button (moderate tapping's all you need).

Warning: Notorious Bum Driller
Spoiler: show
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Last edited by BIL on Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:20 pm 


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I had an itch to revisit the Bionic Commando games, I wonder why, so I loaded Rearmed and picked Super Hard, which I don't have any recollection of clearing before. Seemed like a pretty good challenge till I encountered those damn puzzles in the communication room. I had totally forgotten about them, looks like they have an even tighter timer. Screw that, I'm going back to Umihara Kawase. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:20 am 



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Hey BIL

For Contra III I did do some c+c attacks, although mostly just on the final stage for the ending bosh rush. I tended to stick with c+laser for most of the game, as laser is very useful in the overhead levels and also against the stage 4 boss. Grabbed the flame a few times for small sections of stage 3 (for that thing in the gif you posted) and 4 (with those monkey guys, although I guess I could have just bombed them). Unlike in Contra and Super C, spread is virtually useless.

I plan on doing Harp Corp or Shattered Soldier next. I did do a S-rank back when Shattered Soldier was still new but I "cheated" in that you can actually use continues and still get a s-rank. What the hell kind of oversight is that?

What do you recommend for Harp Corp? I know there are many different end bosses and characters to choose from. From what I remember that little robot is pretty overpowered and the wolf guy sucks.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:45 am 


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Worst thing about the Shattered Soldier oversight is, it doesn't distinguish no-retry S-Ranks from straight ones (I checked! But I was clearly enjoying the game a lot, so no harm done tbh :lol:)

Hard Corps, yeah, difficulty varies quite a bit depending on character+route combination. As a general rule, Ray is the most "normal" character. IIRC, his most notable technique is pointblanked Spreadgun (C), which carries a ton of risk (Squire has some great posts on this).

Fang/Wolf and Browny/Robot are the idiosyncratic game-breaker characters. Former is a massive target, but his A+C weapons both give excellent coverage, and his Charge Shot can kill many bosses before they do much of anything. It's also got a fairly easy exploit, which lets you fire maxed shots without charging. It's been a while, but basically, you start a Punch (B), then double-tap the [switch] button over to D, before the attack can complete. Result = max charge shot out of nowhere. Double-tap back to (B) and repeat - nothing can survive long. I actually never mastered it, though, because I was getting bored of Fang long before learning of it.

As for Browny, the Yo-Yo can seem useless, if used "normally" by holding the button. However, if you feather [shot] so it repeatedly stabs out at a target, they'll be dead in no time. IIRC, speedrunners heavily favour him for this reason.

I pretty much use Sheena exclusively these days. She's more entertaining than Ray, but doesn't obliterate bosses like Fang/Browny. Her tracking laser, while weak, will shred any attack/wave made up of multiple small targets. Feels rad turning it loose on the Alien Queen, blanketing the screen in burning debris. Her other, non-Machinegun weapons have some interesting techniques, too - like firing the C laser near screen edges to rack up fast damage (try getting on top of the penultimate Infested Base miniboss and impaling him to the floor with it - looks so cool), and braining awkwardly-positioned targets with arcing grenades.

Sunset Hardcorps
Spoiler: show
Image


Routes... without wanting to spoil their content (not sure how much you've seen of HC), the one reached by A) chasing Deadeye Joe, then B) surrendering is probably the shortest and easiest. Longest and toughest, I would say is A) defending the research facility, then B) fighting to the end. I'd put the remaining two, [chase/fight] and [defend/surrender] in the middle, easier to harder.

Whichever you choose, you'll have to do a fair bit of pattern memorisation, especially in NTSCU with its 1HKOs - just the game's nature. They're all really good, quality-wise - my chief criticism of Hard Corps is it scattering all this good stuff across four paths, then making an infamously overlong boss (st4/jungle) mandatory for all of them. >_< Still, more than worth putting up with.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:30 pm 


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Sorry if silly question, but was there an arcade release that was close to Ninja Gaiden trilogy?

GnG, ML etc. are different school and approach... Anything comes to mind?
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:56 pm 


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The two most Famicom-esque sidescrolling action games I've played are Green Beret and Rygar, who relate to one another much like FC Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden (latter keeps the supremely practical sprite/screen ratio, and basic hop/stab chassis, while upping player and enemy potency in precise concert - such that, despite Tecmo's games letting you do things unheard of in Konami's, they still feel about as punishing). If Rygar had used a lifebar and knockbacks, rather than 1HKOs, I could imagine it playing a lot like NG. Stern enough that you'll need to develop your strategy for each stage, but highly open to improv if things go awry.

(incidentally, NMK's Ninja Crusaders: Ryuuga is pretty much NG with 1HKOs, and a few further tweaks, and it indeed has an intensity very much like Rygar's... far nearer that game's tenor than Tecmo's own FC Rygar entry, Hachamecha Daishingeki)

As for a true 1:1 NG-AC, though? I've not seen one, but I'm relatively new to arcade scrolling action. Wouldn't surprise me at all if something's out there.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:07 pm 


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im done with Metal Storm I think. the 2-4 boss just sucks and is way too inconsistent and im sick of doing the first loop now
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:35 pm 


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IIRC, his movements, and those of his turrets, are actually static. Or maybe I was getting a consistent RNG seed on my password... couldn't say for sure, been a while. I remember making similar moves each time, though. Hectic fight, regardless.

>2-4 (w/G)
>Loop 2 Boss Rush (w/P)

Haha, I'd totally forgotten the Boss Rush's icily calculating remix of the stage boss BGM. Always gave a real sense of endgame, with DickLazor 9000 readying to blast Earth's collective asscheeks clear across the solar system.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:41 am 


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Got to Jubei with Kunoichi and blanked on what I was posed to do. As my corpse was exploding I remembered.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:13 am 



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So I've spent the last week getting re-associated with Contra Hard Corp. I'm playing as Ray and doing the route that ends with the missile launch, which is the same route I was trying 15 years ago. I have pretty good strategies for everything except for the Bahamut fight right before the missile launch. He is pretty much a bastard and seems very random, and this seems like the biggest hurdle for me to no-death the game. My strategy is to use the blue laser on him and stick to the edge of the screen as much as possible. His attacks aren't really that hard to avoid other than the damn "hopping" around, which is almost always what gets me killed.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:01 am 


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Claw Bahamut's hyper-hop is definitely one of HC's bigger RNG hazards - it's been a long time, but I don't recall there being any exploitable pattern to it, just a matter of not getting baited into a slide. His other stuff - rocks, charge, dive - is nowhere as quirky... though I once saw the last one softlock the damn game. :lol: (US ver, real cart+hardware - he noclipped off the screen bottom and stayed down there, the attack's sound effect playing all the while).

The other big RNG killers I'd mention are the Battle Train route's Spheroid Joe, specifically his second form after losing an arm (his erratic drift/lunge movement creeps me out), and that crazy baldhead fuck Doctor Crab, who's just a bottomless beer glass of misfortune. The slide's double-edged i-frames really shine in that fight, you'll die without them, but overuse will quickly prove lethal, too.

Spoiler: show
Image


There's a fourth I rate, too, though it's randomly-chosen and very missable - the Jungle Rollerbot (first form)'s mortar attack. Particularly with the intrusive status bar, the odd trajectory and speed can punish the hell out of a nervous slide. I would've given this attack to the Infested Base's Beast Kimkou (FC Super Contra last boss) redux. Its own mortar attack is nowhere as intense as Contra III's equivalent, not least because he doesn't try to nail your ass with a near-instant laser right afterward.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:15 am 


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IIRC that bahamut fight can be approached very safely, if you just stand still and wait for him to move before reacting to it. Just learn the first few frames of tell for each of his actions and you should be good.
Or am I thinking of a different fight?


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:09 pm 


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We're probably talking about the same boss. It's the one where he straps on a massive bionic claw, after you reject his offer of a BAD END. The only other 1v1 Bahamut duel is with his CHOUJIN-SAMA form, in the Train route. That one is 100% static patterns. Hop his hadoukens, slide through his tackle - which has a goddamn countdown ticker, Nakazato pls Image I'd have nixed the digits, it's not a flat-out instakill (unlike the Great Takeda Robot's crosshair bombing), and you can hop it just as easily - and don't be in the corner for his renzokudan barrage (get center-screen and shoot him back).

That fight is a prime example of Fang/Browny game-breaking. Charge Shot/Yo-Yo will beat him before he gets more than two attacks off.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:00 pm 


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I wonder how a Natsume developed Thunder Fox Again on the SFC would have turned out.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:02 pm 


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Interesting thought... I could see them pulling back on the AC's mass melees (or maybe keeping them to vehicle runs), dialling up the Rolling Thunder aspect. Smaller but beefier crowds, lots of perilous footing and entrenched snipers, with the same American Ninja moveset tailored for aggressive demolitions. Flashkicking onto a catwalk to defenestrate some grenade-chucking twat, mowing through his buddies with the big boot, then dive-stomping onto the previously-untouchable machinegunner, finishing him off with jab-chained stabs. Ho ho ho! NOW I HAVE A MACHINEGUN

Definitely reverse-import the badass LIONIZER enemy mech from the otherwise-limp MD conversion! I was gutted when I realised it wasn't in the categorically superior AC ver. Actually, with Natsume's clear fondness for rock 'em sock 'em mecha bosses (Jetman, Power Rangers), the player could have their own bipedal FREEDOM DELIVERY VEHICLE Image Image

Fuuuck, imagine a final boss showdown along the lines of Endless Duel, followed by an Apex Macho knife fight to the death atop the burning hulls. With maybe a few jetpack sniper zako to flashkick. Enemy HQ in flames for BG (final stage's intro panel - SKIPPABLE - our blue & red dudes rigging up C4 :cool:). Mayne. Image

I've never actually played either of their Power Rangers games, so my point of reference for beefed-up (but non-brawler) combat here is Mutant Apocalypse. Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:27 pm 


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BIL wrote:
followed by an Apex Macho knife fight ]


Why shoot me with the gun when you can stab me with the knife?
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:34 pm 


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I like Jack Krauser's philosophy: stab or be shot :cool: :lol:
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