Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Sengoku Strider wrote:Is it just me, or is Kūjaku Ō 2 (AKA Mystic Defender) pretty laggy? I'm playing with an original cart on original hardware, and at first I thought I must be perceiving delay in my setup or TV, but then other games were responding fine. Like there's a palpable delay between pressing left and your character actually turning and moving that way. He feels sorta stiff. Though I guess as a Buddhist monk simulator it doesn't need to feel like Shinobi.
IIRC it's one of those sidescrollers with overly-lengthy turnaround times, though I find its handling very agreeable overall, even in that moderately tricky acid platforming stage. (an impression helped by one of the all-time most gratifying sidescrolling flamethrowers - makes the same platform's Alien 3 look like an even worse joke than it already is)

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Yeee! Do 'em like Đức done! :cool: But to them, instead of heself! :shock:

I may be a bit biased, as the MD sidescroller I associate with really bad turnaround+move lag is Alisia Dragoon. Een there, it's mostly the pairing with Contra-fast and relentless enemy fire that really irks (on Normal you can just sponge it up, on Hard it'll kill your waify magical girl and her animal pals dead, necessitating some fairly involved use of cover... which is fine, as your large suite of homing attacks is meant for just that, but it's an annoying snag that'll jam up your improv).

The golden rule with this, as demonstrated by Saigo no Nindou, Castlevania Bloodlines, and a bit later on Metal Slug: if you're making a fast-paced scrolling action game, and it's going to have "character visibly turning" frames, ensure that they actually begin moving the instant the direction is pressed. A delay is fine, in a deliberate cinematic platformer like Prince of Persia, but it absolutely gums up fast action.

See also visible ducking frames! Head up but HITBOX DOWN :cool:
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My favoured approach is to just not have these interstitial frames at all, ala OG Dracula and Ninja Gaiden. Even Strider Hiryu, a game that prided itself on an extensively well-animated running, jumping, climbing player sprite took this approach, with the drudgery of about-facing or going from crouched to standing in the heat of battle.

Of course some games, like AD, don't have turning frames at all, yet impose "cinematic" delay regardless. Best of both worlds. :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sengoku Strider »

So...on the one hand, it doesn't have any interstitial frames. But on the other hand, I'm playing it again right now and it somehow feels fine. So I dunno, maybe my Mega Drive randomly got cranky or needed to warm up or something.

But thanks for the Metal Slug gif anyway. It's cool how it creates the illusion that he gets surprised and quickly moves his head aside to dodge the bullet before ducking entirely out of the way.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by XoPachi »

I really really cannot wait for Gravity Circuit and Bushiden. @-@
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Sengoku Strider wrote:So...on the one hand, it doesn't have any interstitial frames. But on the other hand, I'm playing it again right now and it somehow feels fine. So I dunno, maybe my Mega Drive randomly got cranky or needed to warm up or something.
Muscle memory (and just plain memory) can be a factor too, I find. Batman (FC) always feels a bit clunky to me when it's been a few years, with the heavier-than-average handling that creates its signature athletic heft. But after an hour or so, all the old subconscious compensators kick in, along with the finer details of its walljump input.

Conversely, its much less polished followup Dynamite Batman (a Rockmanesque precision platform/shooter, cruelly saddled with big n' hefty brawler proportions) - ala Alisia, that one's just laggy for no real reason. Good luck doing this without a comprehensive mind-map of the incoming stage... looks like rollicking run/gun, but is effectively 100% rote, albeit still fun to execute. Twitch reaction not really a thing with these tipsy controls *bonk* :shock: (again just like Alisia Dragoon, it's a very likeable game in spite of its bungled fundamentals - one hell of a showcase for Sunsoft's late-FC audiovisual prowess, though if you need an equally quality game attached, see Gimmick)
But thanks for the Metal Slug gif anyway. It's cool how it creates the illusion that he gets surprised and quickly moves his head aside to dodge the bullet before ducking entirely out of the way.
Always the artists, Nazca. Image Possibly scrolling action's finest synergists of luxuriant detail and utter uncompromising hardcore.
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A Hellish Battlefield from these legendary men of IREM! No place for turnaround, crouch or jump delay, yet KINEMATIC AF regardless. :cool:

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Look how my boy PFC ZACHARIAS McZAKOFORDSHIRE got he head ran over by a god damn camel ;-;7 Sorrow paid for valour - too much to recall!

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A TOMBSTONE OF SAND indeed. Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

Being a bit of a fan of Aero the Acro-Bat back in the day, decided I should finally go and give a try to that spin-off, Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel. And it's another Sunsoft-but-not-developed-by-Sunsoft-game-which-has-Zero-in-the-title, weird that there's 4 of those now.

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Unfortunately, it's not a particularly good game. There are some interesting ideas, one of the main methods of movement and attack is a swooping dive that moves down and back up in a U-shape. The throwing stars you toss ricochet off walls and if they hit an item such as a 1up or health point, it will attach and follow the path of the throwing star. Most enemies are pretty unique and demand different tactics and responses. It's just, the whole thing feels amateurish and unfinished. There's a lot of jank, and stage designs are pretty uninteresting. Once the initial fun of experimenting with all the moves wears off, there's very little to keep you engaged. The only items which are exciting to find are 1ups, and even then, I didn't die much because the game is easy except when it gets so janky that it's hard to tell what the player is even intended to do.

I didn't hate it, but it really feels like something that got hastily thrown together on a Friday afternoon right before the devs all left for vacation, and then Monday morning somebody else came in and said, "Looks finished to me, ship it."
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BEAMLORD »

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

Quick question regarding Batman (NES) - is Joker able to one-shot you? I beat the game today for the first time, and I'm sure he did this to me. Possibly with his cane-gun. Either that, or I was wearing my n00b goggles.

Top-tier shit, anyway. I actually picked up Kabuki Quantum Fighter yesterday, but it just put me in the mood for Batman :mrgreen:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Volteccer_Jack wrote:Being a bit of a fan of Aero the Acro-Bat back in the day, decided I should finally go and give a try to that spin-off, Zero the Kamikaze Squirrel. And it's another Sunsoft-but-not-developed-by-Sunsoft-game-which-has-Zero-in-the-title, weird that there's 4 of those now.
Never played he or Aero's games BITD, but I always thought Zero was a neat character design (ah, those innocent pre-internet days, when "furry" conjured nothing more sinister than a basket of kittens 3;). And now I think about it, kinda subversive...? A ninja musasabi decked out in Imperial Japanese regalia (rising sun bandanna, "Zero" the "Kamikaze"), rounded out by a veritable symbol of the empire's doom: a bomber jacket. :shock:

Shoulda called his kidnapped GF Enola the Gay Wombat. Image
BEAMLORD wrote:Good afternoon, gentlemen.

Quick question regarding Batman (NES) - is Joker able to one-shot you? I beat the game today for the first time, and I'm sure he did this to me. Possibly with his cane-gun. Either that, or I was wearing my n00b goggles.

Top-tier shit, anyway. I actually picked up Kabuki Quantum Fighter yesterday, but it just put me in the mood for Batman :mrgreen:
IIRC, his gun does a brutal 3HP a pop, so if you reach him in rough shape, he might appear to 1HKO you. However, you get a free lifebar refill after Firebug, so that technically shouldn't happen. Unless... it's been a few years, but I dimly recall FB not respawning if you kill him, die to Joker, then redo the clock tower, with FB's lifebar refill bonus also going away? That could definitely see you one-shotted by Mistah J.

In any case, congrats on the clear! An arcade-concise and rigorously tough gauntlet I always enjoy wrestling back under control. Stage 5 is a model finale, a stern test of everything you've relied on up to that point. And the FB+Jokester showdown is one of my favourites across not just FC scrolling action, but the entire canon at large. The ageless visual contrast of vivid detail to inky shadow plus Naoki Kodaka's pummelling goth-rock OST are most welcome, too!

Purely academically, I do wonder how deliberate FB+Joker's battle designs were. With their extreme aggression and slightly obscure solutions, both will inevitably splatter new players, and bulldog intermediate ones, giving the impression of a damage race.

At the same time, not only is evading all damage eminently possible - it's also hand-in-glove with authoritatively swift takedowns of both, thanks to the lynchpin of hitbox cancelling, plus good PVE balance. FB will massacre you on the ground, but can't touch you in the air. Jokester is a solid wall of death at range, but pitifully open at pointblank. Both can undo your advantages by body-ramming straight into you, with the former's Tiger Knee and the latter's deceptively quick sprint - but neither attack can connect while they're in hitstun, instead sending the boss sailing haplessly through Bats, resetting the field.

So a fraught pursuit ensues, with their volatile movement and fast, deadly attacks keeping even the most seasoned player on high alert for sudden swerves and shock upsets. Quite unlike the typical evade-at-all-costs model of the time, where players confronted with a moving boss typically have to give way or suffer the consequences.

While it's one of those cases where the end result is so good it wouldn't matter either way, I'm willing to give the designers the benefit of the doubt, given how exceptionally well the competing demands of attack and evasion are dovetailed via that always-welcome hitbox cancel. See also ActRaiser II, another masterpiece of technical hardcore, and Jaleco's Ninja Kazan, which while not as distinguished as Sunsoft and Quintet's games, predates both and plays with some notable smoothness.

Cornered? YE RIGHT *PBLTHHH* *2xmiddlefingers + EAT PUSSY SIGN* (`w´メ)
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A quality mechanic I'm always happy to see, with it enabling a particularly sleek razorline of risk VS reward. Now you can leap straight at that ledge-guarding enemy, or that charging bruiser, aiming to kick 'em square in the teef! But if you miss your attack, it'll be your ass instead! Image Who could resist such swashbuckling derring-do. :cool:

THAT LEDGE BELONG 2 ME (■`w´■)
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Super Edgy n' X-TREEEM Technical Bonus: How many games of the era require the victorious player to manually direct their character over to the vanquished foe, so that an extrajudicial BAT-PWNing may commence? MGS3 beaten to the punch by some fifteen-odd years. :o :lol: I like to go for the BIG BAT-KNEE OFF THE TOP BAT-ROPE Image Image

I think Kabuki would've made a fine Bat-runnerup at the FC Scrolling Athletics Meet: Walljump 2 Tha Top, if only it'd had a final gauntlet comparable to Batman's immortally tough clocktower. Its own penultimate stage is maybe 70% of the way there, but it never hits that critical point, peaking around where Bats is still warming up.

CHEEKS OF STEEL
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Still, a quality epigone I like having around, particularly with it being a tiny little micro-subgenre. I would also file Hect's Moon Crystal under this banner - it's not as mechanically similar, but the balance of arcadey immediacy to cinematic grappling and climbing is unmistakable. Neat game - the bosses are largely damage races (possible but unnecessary to no-hit most), but the stages are quality. And as this thread's namesake and spiritual anchor attests, sometimes that's enough. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BEAMLORD »

Nifty-looking shit, man.

You're right BIL, Firebug is a once and done affair, with only Joker remaining on return ascents. Time to sharpen up.

As you mentioned, aesthetics in this game are gorgeous. Metallic emeralds, purples and magentas. Gun metal and brick brown. Such a great environment to barrel through
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

BIL wrote:Never played he or Aero's games BITD, but I always thought Zero was a neat character design (ah, those innocent pre-internet days, when "furry" conjured nothing more sinister than a basket of kittens 3;). And now I think about it, kinda subversive...? A ninja musasabi decked out in Imperial Japanese regalia (rising sun bandanna, "Zero" the "Kamikaze"), rounded out by a veritable symbol of the empire's doom: a bomber jacket. :shock:
He looks quite nice. Has a 80s action star vibe about him, like he's just waiting for an excuse to roundhouse kick somebody.
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And since you mentioned the word "furry" I feel I must also share this...character...from Aero the Acro-Bat 2, but in spoilers because you can't unsee it:
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Aero's first game was the best of the three, it feels like a labor of love where the sequel is more formulaic and ZtKS just comes across like half-finished busywork. Unfortunate downward trend, there.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Blimey, a kusarigama :shock: Image For an (I'm assuming) non-JP developed action game, that's some good ninja design. EDIT: wait no, I guess that's just the motion line on his nunchaku. Still, very sharply drawn.

I actually saw that Aero 2 image BITD, I'd just forgotten it until now. :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Udderdude »

Hack of Final Fight CD to run on the Genesis. No Sega CD needed. Music sounds great so far (as is to be expected). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in_-aN1M-yw
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Super cool. :shock: I hope they'll port over the MCD-exclusive Time Attack, aka BRAWLER CRACKPIPE. Image Worth keeping a Sega/Mega CD around for entirely on its own, practically beltscrolling's answer to RE4's The Mercenaries.

Regardless, a decent MD cart of Final Fight with Guy and 2P play is something that'll never fail to stir the heart of any Sega kid. :cool:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Kinda mixed on this game showcased at LRG's video yesterday, Deathwish Enforcers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lixhuQhpH3o

It's very clearly meant to be an homage to Sunset Riders, though, and seems to get really close to nailing the tone.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by drauch »

^Looks promising! Liking the grimy 70s feel. We need more of that.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sima Tuna »

So the characters are Dirty Harry, Diana Rigg and Pam Grier? I don't know who the other guy is.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

Charles Bronson
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Haha, yep, that's Chuck alright! Missed a trick not calling Clint's expy BEASTWOOD, but I like the sleazy tone elsewhere. :cool: Diana Rigg is an interesting choice, classy pick. Seems like a grab bag of 1960s through 1980s favourites.

It genuinely does look pretty solid, will keep an eye on that. I'd love to see a quality Sunset tribute... here's hoping they're as reverent of the game's masterpiece controls and character mechanics as they are its raucous bodycount and lovably goofy tone.

Absolute quality. Feint into evasion + counterattack at this razor margin never gets old. That is the hard gaming SATISFACTIONS (■`w´■)
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(related ;3)
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Free enemy overlap with 1HKO weapons, the future of hardcore R2RKMF excellence as predicted by Kage (1986)
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The other Contra III. As generous as Spirits, but the flash i-frames are actually straight outta Tsujimoto's earlier Super.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by dojo_b »

Some of the scenes come off a bit like Vaporwave x Scooby Doo, and I would've appreciated a dingier, more 70s-filmic color palette. I understand that would be a commercial risk, though, and perhaps in tension with the legibility of their sprite work.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

The developer is aware of and likes Mystic Riders (mentioned it in response to a YouTube post), so that's a good sign.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BryanM »

Charles is of course the star of Death Wish, and this classic Simpsons joke.

Red Letter Media are of course big fans.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

BrianC wrote:The developer is aware of and likes Mystic Riders (mentioned it in response to a YouTube post), so that's a good sign.
Not Mystic Warriors? :D
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

Sumez wrote:
BrianC wrote:The developer is aware of and likes Mystic Riders (mentioned it in response to a YouTube post), so that's a good sign.
Not Mystic Warriors? :D
Doh. Don't know where "Riders" came from. lol
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Udderdude »

Looks like that new TMNT beat-em-up has a release date now. June 16th. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyfKYsSDDb4
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by it290 »

Oh shit, that's sooner than I expected! I'm hyped for this one, I feel like it has the potential to become the first truly good Turtles b'emu.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

I'm bummed the physical seems to be restricted to only LRG. At least the digital will be out early enough for me to gauge opinions and tell if it's worth importing, but LRG don't have enough interesting stuff for sale right now to justify a $150 order for me.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BurlyHeart »

Udderdude wrote:Looks like that new TMNT beat-em-up has a release date now. June 16th. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyfKYsSDDb4
My wife has been bugging me about when this is getting released (as if I am in charge of doing so!), so now she's finally happy I can give her an answer :lol: She's mad excited about it and thinks it looks super cute.

I know some people are not fans of anthropomorphic characters and are glad Casey Jones is added. I think he looks great. In fact, I think the playable roster is superb and delighted they didn't just settle with the four turtles. A pipe dream, but I would love to see Rocksteady and Bebop playable down the line.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Ghegs »

Sumez wrote:I'm bummed the physical seems to be restricted to only LRG.
Signature Edition is also doing a Standard Edition and Special Edition, all for Switch, PS4 and Xbox One.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Seems there's a wide release too, I've seen local stores putting it up for preorder now, really cheap too. I guess LRG just had an exclusive deal to announce a physical before anyone else?

It's slated for a late July release, so it's probably a better idea to buy the wide release to avoid having to wait another year to receive the game.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by it290 »

Sumez wrote:I'm bummed the physical seems to be restricted to only LRG. At least the digital will be out early enough for me to gauge opinions and tell if it's worth importing, but LRG don't have enough interesting stuff for sale right now to justify a $150 order for me.
LRG is such bullshit. I finally received my Ninja Gaiden vinyl box set almost two years after preordering. Something similar happened with the Garegga set. I refuse to order from them anymore unless they can actually start to communicate production timelines.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BurlyHeart »

it290 wrote:
Sumez wrote:I'm bummed the physical seems to be restricted to only LRG. At least the digital will be out early enough for me to gauge opinions and tell if it's worth importing, but LRG don't have enough interesting stuff for sale right now to justify a $150 order for me.
LRG is such bullshit. I finally received my Ninja Gaiden vinyl box set almost two years after preordering. Something similar happened with the Garegga set. I refuse to order from them anymore unless they can actually start to communicate production timelines.
I stopped buying from them & SLGs when a game I purchased and shipped to Korea had a DLC drop a few months later.

I mean what's the point of physical releases if I have to download stuff (which doesn't get added to the disc) for them to be up to date?
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