The Problem with Perikles

[chum]

Fair enough. Like I said, I would have stayed out of this topic had I not begun S!

[Jaimers]

To elaborate a bit more here;
The main things in question are the runs of the very, very difficult games.
Because these games are in a category of their own and require a very different approach than most games.

Going to take the Same! Same! Same! replay as an example because it's extremely weird.
First of all this game is extremely brutal and one of the hardest shmups ever made.
It is designed to make sure you're not getting anywhere anytime fast if you don't memorize every single enemy spawn location in excruciating detail and plan your way around them.
Trying to ad-lib or flail without a plan will get you killed immediately. The hitboxes are gigantic, the bullets are too fast, the firing angles are weird, everything will snipe you from every direction and bombs take forever to actually go off.
There are games where you can improvise sure, but this is absolutely not one of them. There is simply no let for that in this game.
And if you die then good luck recovering if you don't know exactly how to do that as well, so back to stage 1 you go every single time you take a single hit somewhere.
Furthermore there is RNG with item bouncing, so you also need backup strategies for every situation.

You need a bullet-proof plan to beat this game.
There is almost none of that in this replay. He flails through most of the game and somehow lives through it miracle after miracle.

Stage 7 for example is some nonsense flailing for absolutely no reason. It looks like he's seeing the stage for the very first time.
He also powers up to max immediately even though that makes the game needlessly harder because more green items will spawn.
Another very weird thing is that it looks like he only ever uses 30 hertz auto. This is horribly inefficient for getting rid of everything on screen quickly duo to the huge gaps in your shots. I don't have to say that this also makes the game harder and more inconsistent for no reason.
Doing the stage 8 boss with 3 powerups on screen for no reason etc.

The amount of luck required to 1-ALL the game under these circumstances is absolutely astounding, no less making it to 2-6.
It must have taken him like forever to get it right. Except it didn't. And that's what makes me scratch my head so much.

the impression I always got is that it's not that he can't play bullet hell, but rather that he simply has no interest in playing them

Sure. I just found it somewhat peculiar that he ranked DDP2 so absurdly high on his initial difficulty list, is all.

[Squire Grooktook]

one more convo excerpt

Spoiler

Squire GrooktookToday at 1:28 PM
on the subject of Same, therei s one possibility that occurred to me:
perhaps most of his runs are legit, but he cheated on that one. Maybe he's so obessive at this point that he couldn't do it but REALLY wanted to complete his list and be able to say he had every Toaplan game under his belt.

BareKnuckleRooToday at 1:28 PM
Same Same Same and Tatsujin Oh should be the runs they focus on. Surprised they are not questioning his self admitted hardest clear, Battlantis, which looks insanely hard

Squire GrooktookToday at 1:29 PM
to be fair, I think he spent 2 years on that one and it's a fairly random game as well, heh.
If Same is his one foray into cheating, that might also explain his sudden panic. "Oh shit, I ruined my legacy that I worked so hard for! Now all my legit runs will be invalidated too! Aaaaaaaaaaaaah whyyyyyyyy" and then he does an overwrought skyward scream.

BareKnuckleRooToday at 1:32 PM
Yeah, and that's part of being weird too. I can totally see an OCD player being like "fuck, I am so close to the clear! I might as well have it by now" or something.
I don't want to see it as a huge possibility

Squire GrooktookToday at 1:33 PM
He was very attentive to his little library of clears. It makes sense as a motivation.

But not being familliar with that game, I'll hold out until more evidence/analysis is in.

I do maintain that shit like Batsuugan Special should not be shown as evidence here and that the rest of his clears that I'm familiar with are fine.

And with that, I'm done for now.

We shall see.

[Squire Grooktook]

oh wait, one more thing!



Not sure what it means to play gay elf.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

Beautiful.

[Bananamatic]

what is it with g*mers that makes them so mad
you don't see this level of hostility in other hobbies

[Xyga]

@Xyga
Uh, I honestly thought I would be done with this. But just to clear things up: that "winning the masses" comment was me. I don't see how building up a convincing argument is wrong in any way? And if an argument is too weak, then it probably means you are either wrong or that there is just not enough evidence for your accusations. But this is for others to decide!
...
The videos are all we have at the moment. In a way the situation is even more difficult than the one from that DOOM video. The DOOM scene at least has frame-by-frame inputs to analyze. We only have movements on a video.

There sure are very intense moments in those vids, and some borderline miraculous, we've seen that.
Anyway fuck DOOM, it's not Perikles, I want to see more burning evidence from his plays and history.
You were talking about making this look convincing, professional, it's not.

This is your and a handful of other people's initiative, my gripe is that away from this community you prepared an accusation to be uttered here, with too little material, and while you haven't visited to have any meaningful interaction with the community here for ages, the first thing you do is this ?
Do you understand the cringe?
This post http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p1388781 you act like you're not behind the event.

I don't think you are very interested in an honest investigation. You seem to jump in and defend Perikles without looking at the actual arguments presented here. Admittedly, understanding why some of his routes look so suspicous is not the easiest task. It also takes a considerable amount of experience, which doesn't help the situation either. But here's my challenge to you: Try to use Perikles' routes and learn Same Same Same this way!

You're damn wrong, I'm saying again it is not enough.
I'm still open to both verdicts, just be more thorough if you want the majority to agree with you guys.

What's become of the hacha mecha case ? why don't you talk about more stuff like that and detail what's wrong about it? so we can see if we all agree it is highly suspicious or just hard to swallow.

And I more-than-just-think you're mainly interested in getting rid of that guy and not comfortable having being exposed making it so the case would be presented in a neutral fashion while you guys were clearly set on finishing him, and chose this forum for the stage.

Same3 is a bad pick for me, because I barely plan anything in that game, just remember to avoid some jump scares that got me several times and the rest of the effort is dedicted to staying as alert and focused as possible, try to survive the longest, that's how I play that game, and how I play a lot of shmups.
Learning by heart and reproducing is a boring way to play games, maybe that makes sense for people who are all about scores, optimization and competition, but it's not my kind of drug, besides some games where I can't help it (like PS lol) I challenge most games for myself with my own means, shmups are thrills but leisure thrills in my land, not sport/work.
I may never have be a good player bcause of that, but I don't give a fuck I've never come here enrolling in a sports league or something, again that's more your kind of stuff.

Rather here's my challenge to you; add more precision to you documentation and point some parts of his Same3 run where we can see more insane dodges.
Do this for more games.

I'm completely open-minded on this

There is no definitive proof and noone ever said that there is. But there are so many small things that giving voice to your doubts is completely justified in my opinion.

That's what this topic is for. To get out of the private discords and into the public.

unbiased

Holy shit, bet in high school it was kind of dangerous to get on your wrong side.
How you plan to destroy someone, prepare the event, yet stand affable and use words like open-minded, unbiased, wow.

This is not a topic to call out a cheater.

Yes it is, it always was and this is what you wanted, yet you play the impartial.
You re absent from this community, and come back being a two-faced guy who expects the mob to follow and agree to behead someone, I mean, just how BIG did you believe you are if you thought it would work just like that ?
A cheater sure is a problem, but that mentality doesn't smell good either.

[Plasmo]

I don't think the majority of your questions will help the case at hand. So here's the relevant thing:

What's become of the hacha mecha case ? why don't you talk about more stuff like that and detail what's wrong about it? so we can see if we all agree it is highly suspicious or just hard to swallow.

I have analyzed Hacha Mecha more indepth and it doesn't look dubious at all to me. Nothing I could find.

We could still argue that 3 days is too quick but it's fair to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

I'm still open to both verdicts, just be more thorough if you want the majority to agree with you guys.

We're on the same page then.

[Shepardus]

Rather here's my challenge to you; add more precision to you documentation and point some parts of his Same3 run where we can see more insane dodges.
Do this for more games.

Since it's getting buried already: viewtopic.php?p=1389237#p1389237

[Xyga]

it's fine Sheprd I've seen it but I'm struggling to type with n cting keybord key so I'm lgging behind. so I'll stop with this tody. *rgh*


'People who think hes legit..'
No whoever non-reding retrd you are, just some of us who may not be good players but don't believe they have to fucking take everything you ecelebs state for granted, you don't own rights on player's opinions nor rule in all communities becuse of bigger score-penises, and crafty shit like this planned execution here in a place you never visit doesn't help make people here feel like trusting nd liking you more.

[Squire Grooktook]

It's Cee. He got banned a year or two ago for cursing out AcSeraph for no reason, but still apparently reads my posts here (he jumped onto the discord to call me a nerd for liking some rpg's last month)

[kitten]

Xyga has touched close the reality of situations like this before, and there's a good reason for it:

The people who actually make and support threads like this are either motivated by malice or just stupid.

To elaborate: If your goals were to simply get proof, the last thing you'd want to do is make it public. In this specific case, it shouldn't have ever left DMs. if you were told no, you should've accepted it instead of pulling this shit.

The fact that this shit has, in fact, been pulled means one of two things about the creators: They're either selfish and don't give a single fuck about the subject (Perikles in this case), or the whole affair was always about fucking him up, and not about getting proof.

this is probably the best block of text in this thread, so far. there's little ironclad sentiment about perikles not being a cheater 100% of the time because the nature of this thread from its beginning wasn't about finding the truth, it was about massively discrediting him. this is why several of us have jumped to character defenses, because his character is largely has been what is in question. this is a fucking hit, not anything resembling a fair trial or reasonable discourse. if you want to hold a reasonable discourse, you hold it with perikles, publicly putting the dude on blast is a shit move and this thread should not exist.

for pete's sake, the OP mentions perikles nearly having a breakdown when confronted and asking for score retraction, but we still get this mess like the guilty haven't punished until public opinion is around on them. both sides at this point are speculating about his personal life and character and some are even demanding he show himself, which he might have very good reason for not doing. when you get down to debating a dude's personal life - a dude who very much obviously doesn't want that discussed - on a forum like this, something has gone seriously wrong. not indicting anyone defending him who has, this far, i understand the obligation to speculate when the fire is at his feet in dread panic of losing him in the community altogether.

jaimers' last mentioned suspicions are well-worded and completely reasonable, but i very, very strongly feel that for someone who has as positive a reputation and history of kindness and usefulness as perikles, this is shit you take up with him. there have been a lot of very high profile callouts in the last couple of years on famous players (mostly non-shmups) and i feel like people are charged up as if this is the immediate space to jump to instead of the last resort you go to when you're dealing with a massive fucking parasitic rat like todd rogers who has been given every chance in the world to come clean and held onto his public acknowledgement like it was his lifeblood. this isn't even a vixynyan, where the cheating is obvious and they're just trying to gain traction and acknowledgement.

perikles is someone who has been largely private, and i feel like on a place as hostile as the internet, you respect that at least insofar as he's respected it in others - which is tremendously. keep this shit on smaller, relevant discords (where he's apparently toe-stepping by claiming clears you cannot believe he's properly pulled) and then confront him privately when you've got what you feel is an airtight case. if the scale of cheating is found significant, maybe ask him to come clean on his own terms and give the guy a little dignity. don't fucking start a thread on a forum like this where you compare him to one of the most famous cheater freakouts in doom history and then allege a similarity of character right after he's obviously felt browbeaten enough to retreat.

we've probably already lost perikles as a poster on here, which fucking sucks, but this should at least be an example of how to never do these again on this forum.

[Xyga]

@Squire: Ah he's still alive that one? he probably reads everyone he hates every day, pass pass

[blossom]

Xyga, you're embarrassing yourself. Make an argument for Perikles or against Perikles. Don't attack others. Simply ignore them.

Here's an idea, what if chum or someone else ran a live video demonstration trying to follow Perikles' route for Same Same Same to point out how it's too unreliable to follow consistently? I think most on either side of the argument can agree Samex3 is the most puzzling replay, so that's where the attention should be focused.

[Squire Grooktook]

both sides at this point are speculating about his personal life and character and some are even demanding he show himself, which he might have very good reason for not doing. when you get down to debating a dude's personal life - a dude who very much obviously doesn't want that discussed - on a forum like this, something has gone seriously wrong.

My apologies.

jaimers' last mentioned suspicions are well-worded and completely reasonable, but i very, very strongly feel that for someone who has as positive a reputation and history of kindness and usefulness as perikles, this is shit you take up with him.

This is also something I've been thinking.

I think it would have been much better if Perikles, NTS-J, Plasmo, and some of his accusers just had a personal, private discussions in DM's or over skype or something together, rather than a big public debate where everyone can see the dirty laundry. As it stands, innocent or not, I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to come back here. I'd be a little soured myself, were it me.

[Xyga]

Xyga, you're embarrassing yourself. Make an argument for Perikles or against Perikles. Don't attack others. Simply ignore them.

Don't know what you mean here, I haven't seen enough material to 'choose a side' yet, still waiting to see more, I said it.
In regards to how this thing's been put in place, the ethics of it and how people initiated it behind the scenes, I think I know what I'm talking about and legitimately took Per's defense for that aspect because there's fucking good reason to, it was conduced like a cabal and I hate people who do that sort of shit.
It's anyone who took part in it instead of from the start presenting himself with his complaint (or a group that names its participants and lists the complaints thoroughly) who should be embarrassed.

EDIT: maybe private first if needed, until more solid evidence is gathered, but the moment it has to go public, it's a shitty thing to wear masks, just confront the guy directly.
Especially if you pick a town you haven't visited in ages to hold court.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Since it's getting buried already: viewtopic.php?p=1389237#p1389237

Meh, that Batsugun Special dodge doesn't look suspicious to me. It looks like some lucky "oh no, I screwed up" dodges where he tries to save his bombs perhaps for the final boss, and no, unlike what Plasmo asserts, I don't buy that you would simply hold up to dodge and say a prayer because there's a wave of enemies that come from the top of the screen to deal with right after he's probably anticipating, hence the attempts to dodge more precisely between the bullets and then move to the side and get off the screen edge without moving too far up. Those dodges seem pretty plausible to me in that context, and it's especially unusual that it's being submitted as evidence of cheating especially given there's a couple far more insane dodges a minute later during that loop's final boss. Furthermore, panic dodging can be a thing, you can't always assume the player is dodging rationally if they're panicking because they've screwed up where they meant to be. It happens, sometimes you mess up and lose track of what you're doing and make flails exactly like what those frantic tap movements look like there.

I don't know enough about Same! Same! Same! so I defer to the experts there, but I do know Tatsujin Oh has a gigantic hitbox, so if we were just discussing those two runs, sure, they're pretty insane, maybe a bit suspicious. Batsugun Special though? Its hitbox is microscopic compared to Batsugun Normal and you can get away with plenty of nonsense dodges. If there's any Toaplan game where you can possibly bullshit dodge your way through the game it's Batsugun Special, and it's entirely possible that Perikles' specialty is in pulling off lots clears by just winging it via improvisational dodging without really adhering to a strict route, something that's apparently not acknowledged as being a potential possibility.

perikles is someone who has been largely private, and i feel like on a place as hostile as the internet, you respect that at least insofar as he's respected it in others - which is tremendously. keep this shit on smaller, relevant discords (where he's apparently toe-stepping by claiming clears you cannot believe he's properly pulled) and then confront him privately when you've got what you feel is an airtight case. if the scale of cheating is found significant, maybe ask him to come clean on his own terms and give the guy a little dignity. don't fucking start a thread on a forum like this where you compare him to one of the most famous cheater freakouts in doom history and then allege a similarity of character right after he's obviously felt browbeaten enough to retreat.

Hear, hear.

[6t8k]

*stumble* oh - excuse me! *stumble*

Figured I'd put a few things into perspective.


#1

I'd just like to restate that this isn't a "witch hunt", and the people insisting that it is are causing far more drama than the actual topic itself.

I think I see where you're coming from, but permit me to remark that setting off with "The Problem with Perikles" as a thread title is not conducting it in a particularly prudent way either.

NTSC-J, I'm sorry, all things considered that was a little too harsh and nit-picky! S' just my pedantic nature sometimes

I've thought about it, and I'd like to add emphasis that I assume you went in well-meaning, the issue was simply bigger than you.
When read differently, in fact you have a problem, as the maintainer of the Hall of Records: the problem that you don't know what'up with these scores. And this in itself I'd argue is (a) perfectly understandable (dilemma).

You also have to take into consideration that the "Discord group" (whoever belongs to it), as it sounds like, has been mulling over this for a long time already.
For them that title might sound ordinary, while it has a completely different impact on the uninitiated, who knew nothing of this until this thread popped up.

While I largely stand by what I said -

(achtung! only if this was really the absolutely last resort action) namely that I could've imagined the kick-off to be more amicable. As for the title, wouldn't "Let's make an effort for proof that Perikles is legit" have been quite nifty? And maybe leave out that video montage that proves nothing and is destined to do no good. Why didn't you go with Plasmo's idea of dry tables, placed somewhere in a harmless way at first, maybe promoting talk about clear times, then waiting what happens?

- let me hereby aplologize to you.


#2
Plasmo, you're digging yourself a hole and fall into it. I'm a little bit crestfallen about how you handled this. I thought you did not have the need for that.
About the trademark™ leakage of chat screenshots, that was of course a completely unnecessary mishap. In the internet, I've always found it healthy to assume that 99.9% of what's posted "in private" is public.
If being meticulous, then better say goodbye to the .1% as well! But! -- it happens, we're all humans.


#3
Dragging it all here because it too was way at the beginning:

He then mentioned to me that he used to have a Gradius INP up on Restart Syndrome, but unfortunately, it was gone now because he posted a higher score with a video, which he said caused it to override the old one and its attached INP. I used the Wayback Machine to confirm, and yes, at one time there was an INP uploaded that is now gone. However, Restart Syndrome doesn't work like that—all scores are archived—simply click the date of a score and it'll bring you to a record of every score that user has posted for that game along with any pics, videos, or INPs. Curiously, when I checked his Gradius history, the old score and INP were gone. This means that he would have had to have manually deleted the score and INP.

I think it's plausible that Perikles has been editing his existing submissions (which you can do on Restart Syndrome) rather than submitting new scores. I don't think he has more than one existing entry for any of his Restart Syndrome submissions. His Parodius Da! submissions are consistent with that; Wayback Machine shows his original submission from when he first 1-ALL'd the game, while the current page shows the PB he got later but not that original submission. Neither of these submissions had an input file attached to begin with, so it's not like he has anything to hide in this case.

Also, what page did you check in the Wayback Machine to see that there was once a Gradius input file? I checked myself but wasn't able to find a snapshot that linked to an input file, just screenshots and videos. I ask because apparently old screenshot links like this one for Parodius Da! still work without using the Wayback Machine, so if you have a link to an input from the archived snapshot it might still work if you just tried that link.

For what it's worth, Shepardus' clue indeed yields fruit and the Gradius INP is still obtainable:
Wayback Machine
Presently working link to INP

Apparently it was created Sep 09 2015, using MAME 0.148. I couldn't get it to run (desync basically on frame 1), but maybe some of you battle-tried fellows can.


In case it was not apparent, at this time I have no opinion on the actual subject matter.

[Shepardus]

Apparently it was created Sep 09 2015, using MAME 0.148. I couldn't get it to run (desync basically on frame 1), but maybe some of you battle-tried fellows can.

Thanks for digging up the input file! I had tried searching before but apparently I'm blind and missed that link. MAME 0.148 indicates that it was probably recorded using Shmupmame 4 or 4.2, so if you used stock MAME to play it back that's probably why it desynced.

[Squire Grooktook]

shmup mame desyncs all the time even when you're doing it on the correct version. It's why I kinda stopped caring about inp files myself.

[Lags]

what is it with g*mers that makes them so mad

Since you're a gamer maybe you can tell us?

Spoiler

you don't see this level of hostility in other hobbies

Competitive hobbies can get hostile, specially with online discussions.
But this topic is polite and well meaning.

[pegboy]

I'm able to play back that .inp, and it is indeed using shmupmame 4.2. I have no idea how to tell if it was "cheated" or not though.

edit:
I did watch through the replay at high speed just to see how far he gets, it's basically it's a 2 loop clear of Gradius. Here are my initial observations:

- A bunch of deaths on 1-7, eventually recovers
- No miss the entire second loop (except for one death at the very start)
- Dies a few times on 3-1, recovers, then loses all remaining lives on 3-2.
- Final score just over 1 million points

[FabulousVioletGuy]

What a shame.

[WelshMegalodon]

what is it with g*mers that makes them so mad

Since you're a gamer maybe you can tell us?

Spoiler

Banana is actually right on point with that quoted bit. Though this happens in every nerd hobby.

The problem isn't the hobby. Some people are just losers. This is less about the choice of recreation and more about the fact that those people aren't helping themselves, or don't realize they need help.

[Shepardus]

The problem isn't the hobby. Some people are just losers. This is less about the choice of recreation and more about the fact that those people aren't helping themselves, or don't realize they need help.

Also gaming has a very low barrier to entry, which gives it less of a natural filter than some other hobbies have.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Having spent the evening with Same! Same! Same! 1P version and Tatsujin Ou, I can say that the Tatsujin Ou vid is far less insane to watch than I initially thought. Your hitbox is massive, and no-bombing that section is very, very tough, but your ship is speedy enough to make some wild dodges once you learn where all the damn popcorn appear. If you aren't killing the red ships quickly they'll block a popcorn wave where things can get wildly out of hand which is what appears to happen to Perikles twice in his credit where he then recovers with some lucky escapes. It's nuts, but not completely outside the realm of possibility to do it in an actual run. I've cleared it a few times without bombs there using a savestate and my success rate for getting to the next checkpoint without bombing there is something pathetic like 4 out of 80 attempts over a couple hours (I don't normally play Tatsujin Ou or Tatsujin for that matter though), but it can theoretically be done in a full run and his movements look a lot more understandable to me there now that I have a better idea of the sheer task involved in trying to kill everything in a timely fashion (and having to make some hair-raising escapes if you don't).

Same! Same! Same! appears to be by far more insane run for reasons Jaimers has detailed. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to have cleared it, but out of all the videos given as possible evidence of cheating it's the only game presented so far I'd now be willing to discuss as being potentially suspect.

Also, as someone else suggested, has it occurred to people that whoever made that incredibly stupid callout video are just fucking with you and trying to troll the shmup community? I'm now convinced not a single clip in that video (with the possible exception of Same! Same! Same!) is an example of any kind of cheating.

[Bananamatic]

Since you're a gamer maybe you can tell us?

I barely play anymore (got sick of monhun, working through Sekiro at a snail's pace on weekends) but sure

gaming attracts weird people (including you and me and most of this thread, let's not deny it) and the sad part is that weird people often can't tolerate different kinds of weird either and internet gives you the opportunity to fully satisfy your weirdo needs, sometimes at the cost of denying others theirs

1) Plasmo who is super serious about record keeping and rules
2) Perikles who is super serious about playing crappy old games but refuses to provide any more concrete proof of his skill for some reason
3) Iconoclast who generally agrees with 1) but would rather not argue because he'd rather watch his japanese idols
4) Jaimers who is incredibly serious about the technical details but doesn't really care about online leaderboards because they lose all personal value once you're #1 in everything
5) A bunch of people who think 1) is too serious or doesn't have enough proof (despite not understanding the issues in the replays in the first place) and that nothing should be done about 2), directly denying the intense interest of 1)
6) Some people who think that gaming should be a safe space, that this is character assassination and we shouldn't scare 2) off even at the cost of not having or ignoring rules which directly undermines 1)'s goal, this group also doesn't really have the credentials to tell what replay looks fake and what doesn't

none of the people here are bad, it's just that their weirdness is opposed to one another and no one who is actively participating wants to give an inch because they're too firm in their beliefs

the monhun board on gamefaqs is another good example, there's the speedrunner who despises the "plebs", you have the people who hate speedrunners for being "too serious", you have the people who think everyone should run dps skills only because it's for serious players and anything else is a crutch, then others argue that a dead hunter can't dps and everyone gets mad

any "nerd" community improve a ton if all the spergs realized that everyone is there to sperg out in their own way and were a little more tolerant of that

[wiNteR]

I would say the focus should simply be on the replay which is supposed to be "suspicious". In my opinion, posts that are tangential to the main topic simply take the point to somewhere else. It would be better to open a separate thread for divergent but related topics.

So I would just say:

^^^see my response to Plasmo above.

As I said, I'm pretty sure Same should be the heart of the conversation here. It's the one thing that makes me raise an eyebrow. The rest is simply negligible TBH.

So let's see some dissection of that. Preferably from people who have cleared it.

I have never watched any of his replays. After the thread I watched the Storm Blade clear to get some sense. Having a NB clear from many years ago and playing it a bit in last few weeks for NMNB I think I could get some idea.

While I am no expert at dissecting or analyzing replays (for this kind of stuff) in details, what I see is bombs being used at very "normal" places where I would expect someone going for a "quick" clear would use it.

===========

Now one game in hundreds of games may or may not mean much but I would just say focus on just one or two replays at most and consult with players that have played enough of the relevant games. Or if you are very interested, just play that specific game (where fingers are being raised) yourself to get a better idea (it might be an interesting game to play anyway).

I would also add just going for a slightly harder (or even much harder) route deliberately doesn't mean much by itself (I do that often). It depends on specific context. Often my reason for doing that is that I would miss an interesting boss pattern (by defeating it too quickly) or, say, the route for the stage becomes much less fun when done in the "most efficient" way. So pointing an issue in that direction would have to be more specific.

Another thing is that sometimes players can pull off very nice clears quickly. I remember two of these (Under Defeat one loop in 7 hours and Gigawing generations on first try ever (no stage practice) ..... I don't remember the posters, you can find it in old HS threads). So there needs to be something systematically going wrong in a replay.

EDIT:
So something like the Jaimer's post looks quite relevant (and there needs to be more posts and analysis of similar kind) ...... more so by those who have either cleared or played the given games to substantial extent.

Since I haven't played any of the games being considered, I don't have anything specific to add other than what I mentioned in the main post.

EDIT2:
If I was in place of Perikles, I would have quickly come to the thread and tried to show that it is all legit. But different people have different personalities, so I have no idea whatsoever whether coming to a thread or not should really be taken to mean something.

[Shepardus]

If I was in place of Perikles, I would have quickly come to the thread and tried to show that it is all legit. But different people have different personalities, so I have no idea whatsoever whether coming to a thread or not should really be taken to mean something.

For what it's worth, he hasn't logged on in two weeks, so I'm not sure he's even seen this thread. Doesn't discount the possibility that he's been visiting while logged out, but periods of inactivity aren't unusual for him either (look at his posting history).

[Plasmo]

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