The Problem with Perikles

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pegboy
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by pegboy »

I don't think that clip of him going through the wall is neccessarily proof of cheating. Now, it's been like 1/2 a decade since I played Gradius V but I'm pretty sure there are certain circumstances where you can survive going through walls/barriers if you have a shield and do it quickly enough. I'm half tempted to go dust off Gradius V again and test it out.

Don't get me wrong, he is 100% a cheater and his Gradius V video is totally fake, but I'm not convinced he used some sort of "invincibility code". I've never played Gradius V using an emulator (which he is for sure using in this and probably all of his playthroughs) so I'm not sure what is and isn't possible with it, but his run looks more like abusing save state reloading and/or slowdown or something like that. Maybe someone who is familiar with PS2 emulators can chime in on what is and isn't possible?
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

It'd certainly be interesting to know if this sort of this is legitimately possible as a rare fluke dodge and just an oddity. I've never survived ramming a solid level hazard when shielded in all my years of playing it, and frankly it would make more sense for it to be a fluke dodge (why use an obvious invulnerability cheat when you're save stating/using slowdown to get through the game unscathed?) but yeah, even without the flying through walls thing the run's still clearly suspect.
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trap15
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by trap15 »

I also think that wall thing is entirely legitimate. The walker fight is the real proof.
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Kiken
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by Kiken »

You can survive going through solid walls/objects in Gradius V if you have a shield with at least 2 hits remaining and your ship is at max speed.
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by copy-paster »

You can get through walls in Gradius II with full force field equipped for a second, this also present on PC Engine port. Definitely helpful for high speed zone stage or dealing the crab walkers.

It'd be a nice surprise if Treasure referencing this trick on Gradius V. :mrgreen:
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Kiken wrote:You can survive going through solid walls/objects in Gradius V if you have a shield with at least 2 hits remaining and your ship is at max speed.
OK, so that's confirmation then that we've got a legitimate fluke dodge present in what still remains a run with a clearly suspect Elephant Gear fight (the walker thing in stage 7).
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pegboy
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by pegboy »

He wasn't at max speed though, his speedup icon would say "init speed" if that were the case.

In fact, he never even alters his speed ups (or weapons) the entire game, which is another sign of a fake run IMO. Not using max speed in the high speed section is not something you can do and reliably get through that section, as demonstrated by him running through walls. Someone who is good enough to no-miss the entire game wouldn't do stupid shit like this because it would get them killed more often than not.

I've noticed this in a lot of his "runs", he just sticks to the bare basics (1 weapon, never changes speed, etc) and yet no-misses the game with no problems at all. It's almost like he's not even familiar with the game...
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I took the time to watch edusword's Gradius V run in full. It stinks. I'm sure I've missed other stuff but here's the bits that stuck out:

What is up with the stage 1 boss? After destroying all the gun turrets on the outside ring, he moves outside the lasers instead of staying in the middle and attacking the boss, where it's actually harder to dodge instead of making easy micrododges in the middle without worrying about the rotating lasers, then fails to even attempt to move his Multiples to attack the boss while it's behind him, and again takes the harder dodges by moving around the outside of the lasers the second time it rotates. It's not cheating per se that he dawdles here... but it's really bizarre.

• Doesn't attempt to move his Multiples do destroy either of the large enemy spawners at 23:55 - would someone who can no-miss the game not destroy them like this when it's trivial to do so?

• The stage 3 boss is not at all how anyone playing at a no-miss level of play would even think to approach this. Instead of moving his Multiples so they're above and in attack position as it's moving downward, he dawdles and waits to start shooting it only when it's stationary and at the bottom of the screen, forcing him to dodge the dangerous barrage of explosive bullets. Look how close the first explosive blast is to killing him, I'm pretty sure a direct hit is a kill even shielded and you can (and should) kill the boss long before it can get to this. The way this boss is handled (messily) is how I'd expect to see a beginner handle it, hiding timidly at the bottom of the screen like that. It's not the gameplay from someone who's claiming to be able to beat the the game deathless but can't be bothered to attack the boss once it's vulnerable (after the first laser sweep) in order to avoid its most dangerous attacks!

• The insanely risky diagonal dodge through the start of the regenerating wall section where he nearly gets hit by a section of the wall. Why not just destroy the wall in a straight line and be safe?

This bit at the Stage 4 boss where instead of moving to the left side of the screen where it's much less complicated to dodge, he stays in the middle of the lightning pillars and suddenly eats 3 hits to his shields. This is a fairly trivial attack to avoid, and he also doesn't bother to extend his Multiples to hit the core past the pillars, both things which immediately read as a beginner who doesn't know how to handle an attack using tool assistance to bypass it.

• Stage 5 boss, when the direction of the meteors reverses he is absolutely unprepared for them coming from behind and has not moved his options behind him to clear the way, thus nearly eating space rocks at 39m26s if not for the aid of "lucky" dodging.

Stage 6 at 45m25s: Same deal as the enemy spawner in Stage 3, instead of putting his options through the wall to destroy the green ooze above him as intended, thereby making it safe to move through the diagonal corridor, he basically doesn't shoot the ooze at all, making a risky dodge instead. He then does the exact same thing two more times, completely neglecting to shoot out the green stuff in the basins above him to make it safe to dodge. This section I feel is one of the biggest red flags in his playthrough.

Proximity mines section in stage 7, take a look how he moves in the very dense section before the boss, rapidly weaving in and out of the mines instead of staying in one of the large gaps at the top where it's much easier to keep the mines misdirected.

• And of course when he starts attacking Elephant Gear, which we've been over already.

Seriously, just compare all those sections to any of the competent 1CC runs on Youtube such as this one from Jaimers or this no-miss clear from pegboy and watch how differently edusword handles these. Watching edusword play is like watching someone on their first very credit flail their way to a flawless victory, playing so badly yet so insanely well at the same time.
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by Lags »

SynthRicardo and others have been analyzing Sikraiken's Tatsujin Ou replay and they have some concerns. I am not familiar with the game so I'm just posting on their behalf.

Stream replay of the Tatsujin Ou clear
------ Rick's Notes & Timestamps -----------
11:56 Goes blue vs the first boss, making it super hard for no reason, and wastes two bombs on it as a result
14:15 Makes this completely trivial part (known for the Emuser video) close by sticking to the bottom instead of the middle
21:15 Bad way of dodging the second boss, ends up using a bomb
25:15 Absurdly risky movement going through a bullet for no reason
31:20 Ridiculous bomb usage, not a spot where you'd waste a bomb, he doesn't even try to dodge it, it's not that bad
33:05 Seems unaware of those enemies that come from behind, some narrow dodges as a result
35:23 Stupidly precise dodges, partly because he's using blue but there are better ways to dodge anyway, followed by the crazy fourth boss no bomb (he needs bombs vs the easiest boss but can do this very hard one no problem)
38:48 Again, doesn't really know these guys are coming, almost dies due to that
41:09 he doesn't know that you can just hug the top of the screen and be safe there, but even then his method is very risky
44:48 He begins to milk the boss lord knows why, dodging it forever, ends up dying
50:07 Nuts dodges, makes this way harder than it has any right to be
51:30 The most ridiculous dodge out of them all (and again unnecessary, just deal with those enemies before this can happen, but he doesn't know...), followed by a questionable method for the rock guys where he has to dodge aimed stuff narrowly
52:41 besides using blue which is the worst weapon here, his movement is stupidly precise and risky
54:45 yet again doesn't have red which would destroy these things faster, and his movement is ridiculous
55:09 unaware that the enemy is coming from behind and is very lucky to not get hit. Now I'm not exactly sure when the enemy hitbox shows up but this is just dumb
-------------------------
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BIL
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by BIL »

Can they not post this themselves?
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by Lags »

BIL wrote:Can they not post this themselves?
Nope, banned.
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by BIL »

Oh yeah, I remember. RIP wacky thread. Just figured he'd just go under the fence on an oldschool internet suicide mission, it's an artform around here.

Can someone who speaks the nihongo phone M2, and ask them to make the PS4 version extra falsificare-proof? Nothing fancy, for fuck sake, just enforce defaults and shitcan the run if you pause the game, ala Hamster. Otherwise, my plan to kidnap everyone on this forum and record them playing it at gunpoint for a month until we separate the Tatsujin OHs from the Tatsujin NOs will be for naught. Image
Prales
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Post by Prales »

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InFireX
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by InFireX »

First they ignore you,
then they laugh at you,
then they fight you,
then you win.
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by copy-paster »

why did SynthRicardo banned
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BIL
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by BIL »

PM-posting sperg meltdown and a nuked thread, but mostly, our virulent racism at his taco-chomping defilement of a fine English name. It's "The Smiths" not "The Synths," by shitting crikey.

Now! Back to Shumps Dragnet.
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Gus
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by Gus »

Sikraiken's own comments on the replay are some of the most ridiculous you'll find on a serious run this side of Vixynyan claiming she did TAS-tier dodges to keep the game interesting while attempting a TLB clear of Futari BL. "I picked the worst weapon and avoided the best one because blue is my favorite color" and "I didn't bother tracking my bomb usage" are the exact opposite of what you'd expect from someone clearing one of hardest first loops out there in a matter of days, and go completely against his common portrayal as an extremely smart router.

Also, add this to the pile of him being shady about replays.
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by EmperorIng »

It's funny how far along the community is in terms of assessing proof/claims, and how -judging by those links- some things just don't change.

Seeing prales, flobeamer, mycophobia struggle so hard with Tatsujin Ou over the last six months makes claims like "I don't even pay attention to bombs" seem so patently ridiculous, when ANYONE who tries to tackle the game know that every bomb is precious and means everything to your route/survival.
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by avri62 »

Pretty strong evidence that sikraiken is a cheater. Just as strong as the evidence against Perikles and edusword. So when are Plasmo and the gang going to take down his scores?
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by trap15 »

It's not remotely as apparent as edusword, don't get too giddy.
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Post by Prales »

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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by copy-paster »

prales wrote:In the cases of Perikles and edusword, their community involvement doesn't seem to be as great
Perikles write-up of his 16-bit Arcade Port reviews and classic STG difficulty ranking is very impressive. I am astonished that these essays are coming from a suspected "cheater" which even a real cheater alone would not that into this stuff. I guess the sikraiken problem is the way he promise about replays but never comes to fruition.

"Hey guys, I just got a high score of game X. Will post replay tomorrow."
"Well I am lazy as fuck to do anything right now so no replay for ya."
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Post by Prales »

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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by copy-paster »

As for tournament he had joined TRP STGT '15 and '17 and that's about it. I believe the games he cleared from TRP are legit because the tourney's first rule is "No cheating!" :P
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Post by Prales »

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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by Gus »

Sikraiken has always copped heat for failing to show video proof for his scores and in general behaving exactly as a stereotypical cheater would. At the same time, perhaps to provide a cover for that, he's aligned himself with several prominent members of the community and carefully created a reputation for himself as a master of creating routes. Taken in that context, one of the very few replays available for his serious scores having been found to contain numerous moments of suspect routing is probably the worst thing that could happen to him short of clear evidence of replay tampering. I'd easily put his case on par with Perikles in there being just too many issues for someone looking at things objectively to continue giving him the benefit of the doubt. Similar to Perikles, his recent comments also suggest a desire for people to move on from his suspicious scores.
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by Zaarock »

Idk if there was more 'aligning with members of community' than just being a very active member of the scene. Just like people are on Discord now, many players have always been more active on IRC channels than system11. I remember with sikraiken this stuff was (on top of generic chat) often things like working together with others to figure out strats and approaches for various games.
Similarly you could be looking back at some dead discord server a few years from now, people discussed something there but it's gone. Would need to have some special reason to log all discord chats, since it's not built for that + searching through messages is a mess compared to a BBS like this where you can easily keep track of and link past discussions in the future.

There was always some suspicion on sikraikens tourney scores missing footage or being submitted extremely late. Replay hiding & score sniping is a certain kind of strategy there really, completely missing replays aren't :P . iirc later on he set up twitch to live stream gameplay for some later tournaments (which was successful?) & did score attack on the dangun feveron M2 port competing for WR in one of the arrange modes. This seems like a very different case to me with videos being 'missing' rather than cheated. Lack of proof rather than forged proof? Any tournaments in recent years now require footage or working inps which is much better. In a way since the legitimacy of those tournament scores were questioned since the very beginning, maybe some think of them as less damaging if cheated. Compared to a continual feed of cheated replays masquerading as something else.

imo for scoreboards a part of the responsibility is on the board owner to indicate which scores have videos tied in etc. and in what cases they are required. It's up to the viewer to evaluate legitimacy past that, nowadays if the top score in a competitive environment has no kind of footage that's questionable and in a lower category than a lower scoring run with footage.
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by pegboy »

What the hell is it with people cheating in Truxton II and Tatsujin Oh anyway? Perikles, Edusword, Yace, and Sikraiken all faked runs with that game? I guess it's just more obvious they cheated in it because of how ridiculous the game is.
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by copy-paster »

Flobeamer just recently got his Truxton II 1-ALL few days ago. I'd say Tatsujin Ou is indeed ridiculous and it's also 50 hours long. Truxton II is slightly easier but still retain it's brutal difficulty.
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Re: The Problem with Perikles

Post by wiNteR »

I thought I would mention a few things. These are not particularly focused comments, just various (sporadic) thoughts on this topic.

(1) I am probably not good at discerning videos so take this as a grain of salt. I do agree that some of the dodging in the video clips linked is a bit atypical (I compared with one other replay that came upon search).

But just playing a game in a harder way than the more refined route definitely doesn't mean cheating.

(2) Regarding the comments linked above on the replay (december 2009), there is a concern. According to Sikraiken's own comments (in the same topic) the original clear was done 6 years ago (in few days).

Now from what I have gathered based upon the comments of other posters, the game is supposed to be quite difficult (and looks deceptively easy). So it seems that one would have to be extremely skilled to complete the game in few days or few weeks. So I think there is one question as to which other (difficult) games were completed (or heavily practiced) by sikraiken before he had completed this game? Since, presumably, given his own comments it was completed six years ago, which would make it late 2003.

(3) Regardless of whether Edusword cheated or not, some of the evidence posted in the initial video was quite strange. Quite honestly, upon watching the 1-2 boss of donpachi, I was confused whether the video was serious or just made as fun/comedy. But when later I realized it was serious, I could only conclude that whoever made the video hadn't played donpachi at all. Presenting a video as a discussion point was of course perfectly fine. But it was a bit strange for me that video [and that specific part in particular] was presented so emphatically (I feel it would have been better not to be so emphatic regarding that part).

(4) Recently I noticed that EOJ (on his site, that he seems to have revived after a good number of years) posted a twitter link to player getting a new score on cave game. Here is the link: twitter. Now if you scroll down a bit (to few weeks ago) one of the videos posted seems to be consistent with one of the older posts of sikraiken (made about seven years ago).

(5)
prales wrote:Therefore, I personally hold people like sikraiken to a higher standard of proof for this reason as well.
I do agree with the basic point here. However, I think the converse of should be held as well. If someone has been a member for a long time and has shown enough credibility (which is the case here), it is reasonable to give them quite an extended time (at least around an year or so). That's my opinion.
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