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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:41 pm 


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1)

Strania - Operation Stella Shooter - Expert
レベル固定 - 16,750,600

Source: Score taken from the superplay DVD for Seisou Kouki Strania:


2)

Another improvement from GFA2-ISO in Vasara 2 (Sandayu): 31,885,520

Source: https://twitter.com/niboshi_0707/status ... 4543172608
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:07 pm 


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JHA November 2017 update
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:53 am 


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NTSC-J wrote:
For those that don't check the Strategy forum, Plasmo has started a useful thread with links to all of the highest scoring replays available online. I've also added a link to his thread in the resources section here.


Never seen this until now. Interesting read up
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:23 pm 


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New WR by SPE in Deathsmiles (Follet, Canyon): 696,638,134

https://twitter.com/SPE2500/status/944905291929346049
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:09 pm 


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Regarding this score:

Strikers 1945 II - Shinden
HD. - 3,338,100

This score was not achieved with Shinden, but with Hayate. Source

That leaves the score listed in Arcadia as the true WR:

M.T - 3,304,100
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:45 pm 


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New WR in Rayforce: 9,510,600

https://twitter.com/R_GRAY1/status/952106429833404416
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:53 pm 


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https://freshlive.tv/taito_hey/71225

Here's a counterstop score for KiKi KaiKai. It starts at 51:32. 9,999,990 - Scene 191

This is the player: https://twitter.com/aroto_ari


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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:54 am 


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Updated.

Jacktheavenger's Mushihimesama score has also been removed.


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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:03 pm 


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On what grounds was his score removed?
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:26 pm 


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it was score from the wrong mode. they messed the leaderboard up.


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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:55 am 


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Follow the discussion here: viewtopic.php?p=1295485#p1295485
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:57 am 


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WR in Strikers 99 (X-36) goes back to Korea! H.J got an amazing 3,579,500!

https://twitter.com/likeus69/status/954621903569743873
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:08 am 


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JHA records for December


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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:38 pm 


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Strikers 99 - X-36
H.J - 3,587,600

Source: https://twitter.com/likeus69/status/960161143946752000
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:58 pm 


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Daioujou BL A-EX - 3,623,620,460 - WY
https://twitter.com/fairy_tiera/status/962358330675970048


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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:05 am 


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New WR
Donpachi - Type A - 90,988,570 - SOF-WTN
https://twitter.com/sof_wtn/status/962217439655165952
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:23 am 


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New WR in Deathsmiles (Follet, Canyon) by SPE: 698,907,102

Source: https://twitter.com/SPE2500/status/963352432435589121
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:41 pm 


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Damn, 700m is going to happen. :o
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:30 pm 


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New WR in Vasara 2 (Sandayu) by GFA2-ISO: 32,150,400

Finally broke the big barrier!

Source: https://twitter.com/niboshi_07_07/statu ... 8910943233
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:48 pm 


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Why is WTN listed as the WR holder for Tatsujin Ou btw? Gamest already had a 10mil score in '99.
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:32 am 


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Parodius Da! (TwinBee) - 3,151,000 - https://twitter.com/hachu012/status/967407061460951041
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:44 am 


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January JHA scores

Plasmo wrote:
Why is WTN listed as the WR holder for Tatsujin Ou btw? Gamest already had a 10mil score in '99.

WTN reached the counterstop earlier in the game than anyone else.


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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:12 am 


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NTSC-J wrote:
January JHA scores

Plasmo wrote:
Why is WTN listed as the WR holder for Tatsujin Ou btw? Gamest already had a 10mil score in '99.

WTN reached the counterstop earlier in the game than anyone else.


What's your source on that?
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:22 pm 


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Gemant (where else). The '99 score got the counterstop in 8-2, but WTN got it in 7-4 and has the note 最高の成果. However, I don't know what his comments in Italian say, but I assumed that it meant that WTN's run was the better one (both runs could have just kept going after the 10m and may not have been achieved in the final stage listed).

At any rate, I've never been a fan of Gamest's tradition of listing the first player to get the counterstop as the WR holder because it kills a lot of interest in other players pursuing it. I've always thought that the earliest the maxed score was achieved in the run should be the tie-breaker (or a secondary scoring element, like the highest EXP in Mars Matrix or chain in Guwange). This information is hard to come by, however.


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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:49 pm 


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I got you wrong then. So you value an earlier stage over an earlier date.

I find this approach not without problems. Obviously, you cannot tell just from looking at the score when the CS was achieved. In this case, it luckily works out, but have you checked all counterstops for the other games as well? In most cases, we don't have any info about the stage reached. Which leaves this approach as very arbitrary in my eyes.

Only the date is something we always know for sure.
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:37 pm 


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I haven't checked with the others, but in those cases, just the first score achieved and listed in Gamest is what I have here. In some cases, they just say "various players," which I think is particularly lame.

I wouldn't call it arbitrary to list the most optimized counterstops, but it is inconsistent with the ones we don't have info on and, like you said, hard to confirm in most cases. My thought is just that it's a shame that WR chasing should be closed for a game. If someone discovers these games tomorrow and is smitten by Tatsujin Ou and vows to become the world champion, only to find out that, tough titty, sport, you should've been born 30 years ago, that's too bad. Obviously, the only thing to be done now is to join the Counterstop Club, which just may be the end of the line, but this is one way I think Toaplan games and others could gain some new life.

If I'm alone, people can feel free to chime in. For the sake of uniformity, I'm fine with just posting the first record holders. We could also list both, but then we might clutter things up.


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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:13 pm 


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One more thing, which will fresh up the discussion even more: We were both incorrectly talking about a counterstop, even though noone has done that on Tatsujin Oh yet. The simplest way to keep Toaplan games alive for competition would simply be to allow scores higher than 10.000.000. Now, that limit indeed is very arbitrarily set by Gamest/Arcadia/JHA and takes varying amounts of time and skill depending on the game.

It's probably one of their strangest rules.
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:16 pm 


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I'm pretty sure Tatsujin Ou does counterstop at either 9,999,990 or 9,999,999, I once saw a picture with one of these amounts. Some Toaplan games have actual counterstops around the 10m mark (like Out Zone or Slap Fight) while others just continue from there (like Kyuukyoku Tiger and Hishouzame).

I personally wouldn't treat every counterstop the same, it depends on the game's structure in my opinion:

- If you have a game with a busted scoring system (Dogyuun, Gun.Smoke, Side Arms...) that incentivizes exploiting non-existing timeouts (either by repeating monotonous cycles over and over again or, at worst, sitting still and doing nothing whatsoever) or other flaws you really have no choice other than to accept everything or ban the game outright. I'd argue that a gentleman's agreement usually works when the game is interesting enough to be played without such measures, can't blame players for using flaws, though.

- If it is a game that ends at a definitive point, I'd rank the counterstop score with higher stage progression above one with lower stage progression. Take Mazinger Z as an example. Someone who got the counterstop at the end of loop 1 scored better than someone who got it at 2-3 for sure, but obtaining a 2-ALL at the same time is much harder to do than "just" reaping a counterstop and then losing the credit in 2-1. Or consider Gallop: would you want to rank a counterstop score that did checkpoint milking (to earn said score "earlier") above a 2-ALL which did not resort to checkpoint milking? I wouldn't.

- If you have another parameter (NTSC-J mentioned a couple), that'd be an ideal way, too, of course, for as long as it's identifiable.

- If it's a game with infinite loops, you're unfortunately screwed in most cases (i.e. when there are checkpoints). It ostensibly makes sense to take the score that achieved the counterstop earlier, but again, this will lead to excessive checkpoint milking. If I were e.g. interested in getting an "early" Gradius II 10m, I'd sacrifice countless lives on the boss parade because that checkpoint is extremely lucrative, thus earning me more extends, resulting in even more points. Such an effort would take much longer than actually clearing more loops, but I'd nonetheless be "faster" by the per-stage logic, which is absurd. You'd have to compare no-miss runs for contrastable results which is completely unrealistic due to how long such ordeals take, thus probably taking a few lives here and there.

- There are a handful of instances where one should go above 10m (Mad Shark immediately comes to mind on account of it being fairly lenient on time when it comes to that number) to check for the highest scores, but as much as I love marathon sessions, there is not much of a point in earning 11m in Gradius compared to 10m. Really, in most games, the difficulty is maxed out around loop 3 or 4, prominent exceptions notwithstanding (both Thunder Cross games never cease getting harder, I believe). It's quite mad enough as it is.
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:59 pm 



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Personally I'm not a fan of the "10 million rule" because for a lot of games this is a completely arbitrary point. For Gradius 1, I believe the counterstop (or rollover) is 100 million. For Gradius II, the score rollsover at 10 million, but there is really no good reason to stop counting because it still tracks your score beyond that point (just not the higher order digits, which you can easily keep track of yourself).

The 10 million rule is REALLY DUMB when applied to a game like Raiden, as it not only is not a counterstop (100 mil is the countesrtop/rollover I think), but the game continues to get harder and harder well beyond the 10 million point (loop 3 or 4).

Why not just track scores for as high as they can go? Isn't that what a world record is meant to represent? If someone is sadistic enough to play Gradius 1 for 60 hours straight and get 100 million or whatever, why shouldn't that count? Of course this brings into question the difference between playing on PCB and emulated, where doing that would be impossible on a real PCB since you can't pause.

I agree for stuff that DOES counterstop (None of my examples above since nobody has reached 100 million), the world record should be the person who hit the counterstop earliest (if the game loops forever). If the game does not loop forever, it should be the score that countestops the earliest and also clears the game (or reaches the higher stage). I think Perikles captured this already.
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 Post subject: Re: The STG Hall of Records
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:18 am 


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Important note. In Gamest/ JHA database, the games with infinite loops aren’t counter stop but “達成のため集計終了”or rather totalizing is completed for achievement. Because in Japan all game center have a limitate working time, it’s useless to collect scores that require more than 10 hours of play, so this 10 million rule was born. Play for marathon (very felt in the United States) is little considered in Japan. However some players have still been able to perform marathons. Many games considered as 10,000,000+a were actually brought to the counter stop. Exemple:

Gradius: 100 millions, player Maison Ikkoku;
Kyuukyoku Tiger: 100 millions, player unknown;
Same! Same! Same!: 100 millions, various players;
Hishouzame: 100 millions, various players (42 hours about);
Salamander: 100 millions, player unknown;
Plus Alpha: 100 millions, player Y.Y.Y
Raiden II: 100 millions (I not remember the player);
Tatsujin: 100 millions, in single player I never see a counter stop (max 51 millions), but I see 2 team with 2/3 players with this target in my life);
Thunder Cross: 100 miilions, in single player I never see a counter stop, but I see 1 team with 2/3 players with this target in my life);
USAAF mustang: 100 millions: player Y.Y.Y
Vimana: 100 millions, player YAE BRIGHT;


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