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 Post subject: Ray Force/Layer Section
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:37 am 


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Too many names, too many platforms. The arcade version was released elsewhere as Gunlock, the Saturn version had to be renamed Layer Section and was released elsewhere as Galactic Attack, there's a PC port based on the Saturn port (released as Layer Section everywhere!), there's the Memories and Legends PS2 compilations, and there's even an iOS port that is definitely not being managed by me.

Previous threads: 1 2 3
--------------------
Please use these settings:
Code:
=Ray Force=
PLAYER STOCK  : 3
PLAYER EXTEND : 1000000/2000000
RAPID FIRE    : ON
DIFFICULTY R1 : NORMAL
           R2 : NORMAL
           R3 : NORMAL
           R4 : NORMAL
           R5 : NORMAL
           R6 : NORMAL
           R7 : NORMAL


For Layer Section, use Normal difficulty, 500K and 1M extends, and you may want to use the "Arcade" (vertical) display mode. For the record, I'm skeptical of Hard 1. I have no idea what any of the other ports use; I'm going to assume the PC version uses Saturn settings and the PS2/iOS ports use arcade settings. Aside from all of this, Taito Legends 2 PC is banned.

Use "Off"/"Int."/"Ext." for autofire, like with Viper Phase 1, Darius II, etc.
--------------------
Please post scores in this format:
Code:
VERSION
NAME - SCORE - AREA - AUTOFIRE - DETAILS


DETAILS is for which console or emulator, which region release, etc. I get the feeling that a Windows port of a Saturn port of a game made for different hardware is going to have some kind of difference, and I was told one of the PS2 compilations had weirdness with some games.
____________________
Arcade version
Code:
1.  Jaimers          - 8,011,400 - ALL - Int. - ShmupMAME v2.2
2.  sikraiken        - 6,273,600 - ALL       
3.  Icarus           - 5,601,900 - ALL       
4.  ben.shinobi      - 5.552.500 - ALL - ???? - MAME
5.  Ruldra           - 5,439,100 - ALL - ???? - MAME
6.  maximo           - 4,965,100 - ALL - Int. - MAME v0.156
7.  ebeb             - 4,950,200 - ALL - Ext. - ShmupMAME v4.2
8.  SFKhoa           - 4,659,900 - ALL       
9.  STG              - 4,650,200 - ALL       
10. Kollision        - 4,626,700 - ALL - ???? - PS2
11. Enhasa           - 4,609,800 -  7       
12. groobo           - 4,436,800 -  7       
13. DEL              - 4,279,700 - ALL       
14. Square_Air       - 4,215,400 - ALL - Ext. - ShmupMAME v4.2
15. Squire Grooktook - 4,194,000 - ALL - Int. - MAME
16. The              - 4,102,700 -  7       
17. Kyper            - 3,864,000 -  6       
18. mikwuyma         - 3,476,100 -  6       
19. Ravid            - 3,219,100 -  6       
20. lowemark         - 3,201,200 -  7       
21. marus-MPO        - 3,104,300 -  6  - Int. - GroovyMAME v0.152
22. BIL              - 3,043,600 -  6  - ???? - MAME
23. ColonelFatso     - 3,013,600 -  6  - Int. - MAME
24. Breakdown        - 3,006,800 -  6       
25. dex              - 2,944,200 -  6       
26. toby             - 2,912,000 -  6       
27. Fu               - 2,847,200 -  6       
28. Dragoforce       - 2,741,700 -  7       
29. MrMonkeyMan      - 2,704,900 -  6       
30. bkk              - 2,623,300 -  6       
31. Smraedis         - 2,577,400 -  6       
32. Javel            - 2,439,600 -  6       
33. VorpalEdge       - 2,421,200 -  5       
34. Despatche        - 2,393,700 -  6  - Ext. - ShmupMAME v3.0b
35. Aquas            - 2,242,200 -  6       
36. M.Knight         - 2,149,300 -  5  - Int. - ShmupMAME v4.2
37. Observer         - 2,103,600 -  6       
38. viniciusvbf      - 1,978,800 -  5       
39. shoe-sama        - 1,936,800 -  5       
40. DMC              - 1,910,500 -  5       
41. BonusJZ          - 1,841,300 -  5       
42. The Coop         - 1,556,200 -  5  - ???? - MAME
43. Dave_K           - 1,274,400 -  4       


Saturn version
Code:
1.  ben.shinobi      - 5,137,500 - ALL       
2.  stuminator       - 4,828,800 - ALL - Int.
3.  Kollision        - 4,181,900 - ALL       
4.  FSR              - 3,626,700 -  7       
5.  sevensevenseven  - 3,065,200 -  7  - Int. - US disc?+US Saturn
6.  ED-057           - 2,832,100 -  6       
7.  JL               - 2,761,100 -  7       
8.  zinger           - 2,613,600 -  6       
9.  louisg           - 2,361,000 -  6       
10. Saturn Memories  - 2,292,800 -  6       
11. Kiken            - 2,287,300 -  6       
12. mar              - 2,049,600 -  6       
13. 99pence          - 1,977,600 -  6       
14. Ayanami          - 1,877,700 -  5       
15. RGC              - 1,865,700 -  5       
16. Rupert H         - 1,857,700 -  5       
17. NRS              - 1,843,900 -  6       
18. BulletMagnet     - 1,679,700 -  5       
19. MOSQUITO FIGHTER - 1,490,300 -  5       
20. spadgy           - 1,348,400 -  4       
21. Overdrive        - 1,327,600 -  4       
22. AVE              - 1,261,800 -  4       
23. Herr Schatten    - 1,242,900 -  4       
24. Shatterhand      - 1,077,100 -  4       
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Last edited by Despatche on Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:28 am, edited 50 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:45 pm 


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ben.shinobi is in both boards? He was playing the saturn version, so you can take him off from the arcade board.
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:18 pm 


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Ruldra wrote:
ben.shinobi is in both boards? He was playing the saturn version, so you can take him off from the arcade board.

*Me being an officious busybody* A few years ago, he posted an arcade score of 5,156,000. He never actually posted a Saturn score.

His current bests for the arcade and Saturn versions are 5,552,500 and 5,137,500, respectively. I don't think it's kosher to add scores that weren't submitted for inclusion, but it's Despatche's call, I guess.
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:25 pm 


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Indeed, I carefully combed both older threads looking for anything that was lost or removed. It happens a lot.

Thanks for pointing those scores out saucykobold, I'm going to go ahead and add them. If ben.shinobi wants them removed, I have no problem with that.

(Updated. Some errors fixed. I feel like I've broken something, but I've checked and checked...)
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:32 pm 


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Arcade version
Despatche - 1,159,600 - 4 - ShmupMAME v3.0b
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:24 pm 


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Here's my best so far. I just picked this game back up after a long break from it :)

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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:39 am 


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this is one of those times where you post a better score almost five years ago
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:19 am 


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Despatche wrote:
this is one of those times where you post a better score almost five years ago


Oh! I see what happened, it's in the Arcade scores. Both of them are actually for the Saturn version.

Dammit, now I have to top it.
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:21 am 


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Did a quick run today.

On the Saturn version, on Hard 1 (so arcade difficulty, right?), I got:

EmperorIng - 2,302,700 - 6 - YES - SAT

Could have been a better score, could have been a better run, with a really stupid death at the beginning of Area 6. Oh well, I feel good that I can get this far on one credit. My score would have been a bit higher had I been able to get the st3 boss to fall on the skyscraper, but I killed him a moment too soon!


===

Only now do I see the OP stipulations, so this score -might- not count. The differences between the Saturn version and the arcade version really puzzles me. If I can get this far on Hard 1, maybe I can get to area 7 on normal!
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:02 pm 


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That's interesting.....
When I played the Saturn version I did it in full defaults. Should I have done it in a higher setting?
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:41 pm 


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It's really some question or issue of whether or not Normal or Hard 1 (or Hard 2!) is the arcade setting. There doesn't really seem to be a clear consensus, at least from the threads I've read on the Strategy board, or even older high-score threads.

I usually only play on Normal default, and the game is plenty hard that way, as I'm sure you know!
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:54 pm 


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The same sort of thing happens with the console versions of Soukyugurentai (Saturn) and Zero Gunner 2 (DC), but in those ones the difficulty straight above Normal is clearly labeled "ARCADE". I did choose the ARCADE setting for those games, but I was unaware of the distinction (if any) in Layer Section :? .
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:04 pm 


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The problem is that I don't see too many differences, outside of the obvious differences between the TATE and Yoko view. Yoko actually gets pretty annoying when you see just how much of the screen you're missing in TATE - because some laser-chains are impossible in Yoko unlike in TATE (excellent example being the asteroids launched in Area 1). But I digress.
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:35 pm 


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The port has its own defaults, and I think that matters a lot. I also don't really believe that changing the defaults to what is supposedly arcade equivalent will be good enough, there could be something else in there that no one notices, etc. Safer to just split the boards and tell Saturn players to use their defaults, plus vertical mode for the reasons you've mentioned. With Soukyuu and ZG2 (examples), those games are supposed to be almost perfect ports due to the hardware, so I'm inclined to believe that "arcade difficulty" would be good enough (of course I'd personally split them because I'm crazy).

Speaking of which, very small detail: what does the game call its vertical mode? I really don't like using "tate" all the time. Really wish I had access to this port...
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:42 pm 


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"Saturn" mode is yoko, with some horizontal scrolling along the edges, and some of the top of the screen cut off.

"Arcade" mode is full tate, which is a rarity in US-released shmups. I'm amazed the idiots at Acclaim kept it in.

The controls "Saturn" and "Arcade" correspond to the display - "Arcade" will have the controls shifted around on the d-pad to make the game play like a horizontal, and it's really awkward.

I'll try my next run on normal and see where that gets me. Hopefully somewhere good!
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:02 am 


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Squire Grooktook - 1,933,900 - 5 - On - MAME


Finally got consistent at no missing the stage 4 boss, and breaking 1mil in stage 2.
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:59 am 


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Arcade version
Despatche - 1,362,900 - 4 - Yes - ShmupMAME v3.0b
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:44 am 


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Squire Grooktook - 2,554,600 - 6 - On - ShmupMAME

I still don't get what Abe's deal is.

Also: I LOVE THIS GAME SO MUCH
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:04 am 


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Trying to inch past me, eh? We'll see about that!
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:50 pm 


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I cleared the version in the Taito Memories II Vol. 1 disc for the Playstation 2.
Will a new table be opened or is this port noble enough to enter the arcade listing? :lol:

Kollision - 4,626,700 - ALL - PS2

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 Post subject: Re: RayForce [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:05 pm 


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Not sure, no one really talks about this port. Of course, that might explain everything! :V

I'll add it and assume it's the same as the arcade version.
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce/Layer Section [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 2:38 am 


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Arcade version
Despatche - 2,393,700 - 6 - Yes - ShmupMAME v3.0b

Is it worth more to actually fight boss 4?
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce/Layer Section [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:44 am 


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Apparently, if you get the spider mech to fall onto the skycraper, you get an extra 100,000 points. That means keeping it around a bit and not destroying its legs.
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 Post subject: Re: RayForce/Layer Section [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:09 pm 


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2,292,800 - Area 6

http://youtu.be/30p6T9PN-UI
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 Post subject: Re: Ray Force/Layer Section [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:57 pm 


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Arcade version
Jaimers - 7,229,600 - ALL - Yes - Shmupmame 4.2

Tried a credit with that autofire enabled and got this. inp (if it doesn't playback properly load a savestate with autofire enabled during the recording and Shift + F3)
old non-autofire record

I have to say that after reading Randorama's ST on this game I've begun to lose some faith in his posted 8.3M score.
The ST is highly inaccurate, filled with nonsensical gibberish and nonsensical advice and he is literally making up gigantic score bonuses that do not exist. The guide is almost completely pulled out of his ass and it's mind-boggling that nobody has ever noticed this up to now or has ever questioned it.
8.3 million is also a ludicrously high score that I've only managed to reach through absolute perfect play with savestates.

What I'm saying is that since he made up most of that guide, how do I know he's not making up that score either? He certainly couldn't have gotten that score if he followed the advice in his own ST.
If someone can reassure me on this or has any sort of proof that any of those gigantic boss bonuses exist then by all means do so.
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 Post subject: Re: Ray Force/Layer Section [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:23 am 


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If the score bonuses exist, I imagine they'd be on display in this video. It's not WR, but it's close enough that significant bonuses shouldn't be missing.
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 Post subject: Re: Ray Force/Layer Section [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:05 am 


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They're not. And they're also not in any other superplay I've watched.
There is a superplay on Nico where you can see the guy's score and he 8-locks the stage 3 boss. Nothing happens. I also tested this myself.

I've had the stage 4 boss fall pixel-perfect on the building for nothing to happen. The only reason the boss falls on the building in the 9.1M superplay is because the rocks are worth milking and the point where you have to stop him is the point where if you wait any longer the boss will timeout. It just so happens to stop above a building.

The 300k stage 6 midboss one is the best one because -it's literally impossible-! There is no way to lock the midboss after you can lock on the pillar as the midboss will be way too low on the screen. The 9.1M guy also didn't do this obviously, if he did he would have gotten 100k over the WR!

The final boss's second phase has armor plates that are worth some points. If you destroy a certain amount of them he automatically throws them aside and he goes to his final form. The guy simply times it so that he can destroy all of the armor. "The core" is simply one of the discardable armor pieces that you cannot destroy. There is nothing to destroy.
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 Post subject: Re: Ray Force/Layer Section [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:42 am 


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I agree that some of the stuff in the ST is wrong. Back when I was playing this, I used savestates to figure out when to drop the st4 boss on top of the building, but that bonus just doesn't exist.

If you kill the boss the normal way, you'll get 300k points the moment the core blows up, before he falls. But if you drop him, you'll only get the points when he blows up below. Someone might mistake this 'delayed points' thing with additional points for hitting the scenery, but it's not the case.
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 Post subject: Re: Ray Force/Layer Section [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:29 pm 



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The guide also contains some lot more elementary errors. The last two locks carry multipliers of 64 and 128, not 128 and 256 like the guide claims. This is trivial to test since the game openly displays the chain score. This is also a pretty major mistake since all the score calculations in the guide are based on the incorrect values, and if those values were true, they would almost double the score potential of the game.

Furthermore the guide claims you can somehow get multiplied score from targets that take multiple lasers to kill. This is obviously false and would effect scoring strategies quite significantly. The best replays clearly never do anything that would indicate this to be possible.
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 Post subject: Re: Ray Force/Layer Section [Arcade/Saturn]
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:24 am 


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guess i should have been reading that thing after all. score removed until further notice, not that it means anything else at this point...

what i really want to know is where his information "came from", so to speak.
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