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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:16 pm 


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Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 4356
Location: Joker Star Galaxy, Argentina
I only played this thing for two days.

Normal - Reimu (A)
KAI - 113,054,050 - C - 0.150%
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:19 pm 


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Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 48
Location: Argentina
Extra - Marisa-B

Thanuris - 406.507.200 - C - 0.125% - Replay
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:04 am 


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Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 350
Location: Seattle, WA
Normal - ReimuB
marus-MPO - 276,600,610 - C - 0.243% - Replay

I haven't been playing much shmups at all since Persona 4 Arena came out, but some local peeps are having a shmupmeet this weekend so I figured what better way to warm up than to revisit one of my old favorites? And as luck would have it I finally managed to surpass one of my demons! (even if its just temporary once again lol)

So yeah, I finally managed to break 270mil, but there's still a lot of sloppy play on display here. The run started out kinda weak with a subpar stage 1 and 2, although nothing too bad. Stage 3 went about average for me, although admittedly that's probably my weakest stage. Then I have a herp early death on stage 4 which cost me a lot of graze, and in a moment of braindeath I forgot how to do the book-fairies section which resulted in a pretty lolz improv pattern. I did the best I could in stage 5 while being down a life. I've improved my patterns in this stage a bit since last year, mainly by learning the proper timing to kill midboss Sakuya, as well as improving on killing as many fairies as possible in the stage opener (although it didn't quite come together perfect this time). I was determined to make it through Marionette without bombing - the run so far hadn't gone so optimally so I was either going to make up for it in the last stages or just toss the run. I got pretty lucky this time even though it was looking grim at points. Stage 6 went pretty well overall, aside from missing the last power item at Remilia's 3rd nonspell which made me want to bang my head against my desk. The last spell card was particularly heart-pounding since I kept moving out of line with Remilia and thus couldn't hit her, prolonging the card two phases longer than usual.

Although I got a better score, I almost like my previous 268mil run better, just because there's not as many obvious mistakes. If I managed to get a "perfect" run using my current patterns, I could probably hit 285-290mil, but realistically if I want to improve I'll need to go back and rework a lot of my stage routes. I don't really have the same motivation that I used to for this game though, and it's a lot easier to just play random full runs every now and then, as opposed to sitting down and coming up with new patterns which requires a lot of thinking and looking at other people's work. I might sit down with it again though once the local P4A scene dies, since there isn't any other recent fighting game out that interests me a whole lot, meaning I'll have more free time to spread out to other hobbies.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:56 am 


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Posts: 2388
Location: Seattle, WA
GJ dude!
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:38 pm 


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where oh where has my little superplayer gone
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:40 pm 


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Scoring in this game seems badass at a glance, but I have to admit that it is pretty dumb. And hard. Can't back out now, though...

Hard - Reimu B
chum - 308,026,510 - C - 0,224% - Replay

Lunatic - Reimu B
chum - 280,185,860 - 6 - 0,234% - Replay

Lunatic - Marisa A
chum - 147,079,290 - C - 0,243% - Replay (No Bomb)

I'd prefer it if my Easy and Normal mode scores were removed, since they're abysmal by my current standards.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:02 am 


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Easy - Reimu B
chum - 142,338,800 - C - 0,267% - Replay

After I got this I felt like I was done with easy, but... part of me still wants to go for 150 mil. This run had an enormous, glaring, costly mistake in it, and I want to fix it and do everything else better as well. The plan is to go for Normal after, then Hard, then Lunatic.

Misc. Shit (but better than my older shit, which had a particularly foul odor)

Easy - Reimu A
chum - 124,387,650 - C - 0,226% - Replay

Easy - Marisa B
chum - 131,949,560 - C - 0,246% - Replay

Lunatic - Reimu B
chum - 326,368,600 - C - 0,284%

Edit: and a scrubby normal run. The replay comment has a typo, I meant that stage 5 was horrible, not 6. I forgot to bomb and suicide on the wall fairies and I didn't bomb properly on midboss Sakuya. My resources were low due to the 2 deaths on stage 2 so I didn't bomb or graze the first boss non card. To top it off, I failed to get a good cancel on Marionette due to fear of death.

Normal - Reimu B
chum - 237,040,190 - C - 0,216% - Replay
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Last edited by chum on Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:47 pm 


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Location: Seattle, WA
Easy - Reimu B
marus-MPO - 128,429,780 - C - 0.227% - Replay

That was neat.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:38 pm 


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Hard - Reimu B
chum - 324,231,360 - C - 0,224% - Replay

A bitter run. I'm somewhat glad I could beat my Hard PB so effortlessly with all the new knowledge I've acquired, but it was to be expected, and anyone that actually bothers to watch it would see that it is nothing to be happy about. Disappointed in myself, but I will keep fighting.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:40 am 


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Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 350
Location: Seattle, WA
Normal - ReimuB
marus-MPO - 276,621,680 - C - 0.211% - Replay

Not even a 0.01% improvement, haha. I suppose that there's no reason not to post it though. I came into stage 6 with a good shot of beating my old score, so I decided to play conservative. It technically worked, I guess :roll:

I've been getting back into this game again now that Evo is past and I'm on a break from fighters. For now I just want to get a new score, but I'd really like to break 290mil before I go on hiatus again. I had a run earlier where I died on Red Magic with 270mil, and that was with a huge mistake on Stage 5 (I got greedy on the boss' 1st nonspell and didn't capture it because I waited too late to kill her). Had I not made that mistake and cleared the game I would have ended just shy of 290mil. I could theoretically get 300mil if I played perfect and got all the right RNG, but I'm not going to bother with that until I perfect my stage 3 and 4 routes (which do still need work anyways, so who knows).
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:27 pm 


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Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 350
Location: Seattle, WA
Normal - ReimuB
marus-MPO - 287,511,930 - C - 0.259% - Replay

I need to rewatch this run. I have no clue how I got such a good score going into stage 6. It's too bad I was down a life or this could have been even better :)
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:56 pm 


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What a shame that you misused one life, but that was still really excellent. Congratulations!
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:57 pm 


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Thanks! Losing that one life hurt, but otherwise it was a good run. Now I'm not sure whether or not I want to forgo 290mil and try Lunatic mode though.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:11 pm 


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Posts: 958
I don't blame you if you wish to abandon Normal, but Lunatic is in my experience a far tougher difficulty to tackle. Yeah, it might sound obvious, but I'm not sure this is necessarily the case in some of the other Touhou games... but in this one, the tricks have really leveled up. The only stage which isn't far harder is stage 5 (I think it might even be easier on Lunatic to score-run)

New scores from me:

Lunatic - Reimu B
chum - 358,573,250 - C - 0,231% - Replay

So, there is nothing special about this, it is in fact quite bad, but Lunatic is horrendously difficult to score run, so I think "working my way up" one difficulty at a time is a good approach. I'm not doing Lunatic scoring again until I'm satisfied with my Normal efforts, and I'll most likely not be skipping hard.

Normal - Reimu B
chum - 262,784,050 - C - 0,249% - Replay

It's a bit sad that this is my best so far since my practice PBs add up to well over 300 million (which is my goal) and that is without any extra resources spent, I follow the full game route in my practice runs. Now, the main reason why this run didn't even break 280 mil was stage 5. It's pretty hard to get all the stages right though. I have a feeling I'll be working on this for a long time until I can get 300 million. Let's see what else went wrong:

Stage 1 - I think the final cancel was off by one blue wave, otherwise my stage 1 score would've been over 10 mil.
Stage 2 - Nothing really here except minor hesitations
Stage 3 - Missed grazes in the start and on the midboss nonspell. I took it way too safe there. Only 2 first boss non grazes. Bad grazing on the first boss card (scared of Meiling's fat hitbox) the rest went fine I think...
Stage 4 - Many grazes missed due to timing errors, failed to POC the left fairy at the end of the stage (maybe somewhere else too?) bombed the first card, got lost on the second nonspell and missed grazes.
Stage 5 - everything
Stage 6 - many point items were missed, bad grazing on sakuya, didn't get the big power item on Remi's third non, suicided too late, didn't get a good cancel on her penultimate card.

Most of my progress appears to be happening in stage practice. I'll have to drill it more and gather courage in real runs. Graze closer to Meiling on her first card! Try to move away from suicide grazes as late as possible at any time! The nagging feeling that a single unplanned death ends the run is always there, but I must go all out to get 300 mil.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:16 pm 


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Location: Seattle, WA
Nah, I decided that Lunatic is too hard for me, lol. Doing any of the cool stuff is too much work, and I'm not having as much fun with it as I should be. Right now my plan is to play some other games (Saidaioujou, maybe Pink Sweets 1.01 again), up my EoSD Normal score, then maybe learn Hard mode before moving on to Lunatic. Slow and steady and all of that crap. When you beat my Normal score though then I'll jump right back into that, haha.

That's a shame about that stage 5. Messing up the midboss like that must have cost you at least 10mil by itself :( Your routes are pretty solid though - once you get a run where everything goes well, you should get some pretty beast scores!
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:50 am 


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Normal - Reimu B
chum - 277,335,390 - C - 0,197% - Replay

Stage 5 was a train wreck, again. This seems to happen a lot. This time, When I was about to finish off Misdirection, I backed into a kunai. Quite a costly death, and then I was unable to graze Sakuya's back during the first boss nonspell more than one measly time (which was barely even a graze, since I arrived there so late!)

Horrid, but the other stages were okay. Stage 1 - sucked, but It's stage 1. Stage 3 - subpar, but not worth tossing. Stage 6 - I used a bomb on Star of David, whatever. Stage 4 - missed a graze on the stage due to a misplacement, didn't fully milk the first spellcard... almost landed at 60 mil from this stage though, so acceptable. Stage 2 went well.

Normal - Reimu A
chum - 211,700,060 - C - 0,258% - Replay (No Bomb)

I don't dig Reimu A the way I dig Reimu B. I feel like I am one with Reimu B and I just can't play the other shots. If I do another No Bomb scoring attempt, I'll be using needles.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:00 am 


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Normal - ReimuB
chum - 283,484,440 - C - 0,202% - Replay

The first time I actually manage to follow my resource route all the way through. Unfortunately, the run is full of little mistakes and unoptimized play. I'm currently grinding out practice mode even further. Stage 5 is a giant mystery to me, I compare everything to MATSU and I fall behind in so many places where I don't quite understand why or what I can do about it. It's a beautiful scoring stage when you understand how it all works, but just so ridiculously particular and I wonder if I can ever be consistent at what it demands me to do.

I've also improved my stage 3 by a bit since this run, I now feel more confident grazing closer to Meiling during Wind Chime, although it results in deaths sometimes, I think having to reset a couple of runs there every now and then is worth the potential extra graze. I've improved my method for the part just before the midboss, I can't believe I used my stupid safe strat for so long.

Stage 4 is mysterious as well. MATSU has a picture on his twitter of him getting 70 million in stage practice, without missing or bombing. Now, I'm trying to fathom just how this is possible, and I can't do it. I can maybe understand a 67 or even a 68... 70 I just cannot.

300 million is possible and the first step towards getting it is resetting any run that doesn't reach a certain score quota pre-stage4. If I can finish stage 3 with, say, 90 million points, then play reasonably well from there on (never straying off my resource route) it should be possible. 60 million stage 4, 75 million stage 5 and 6, then I am there. There is also the possibility of improving enough at stage 5 (or the other two late stages, perhaps) to not have to reset as often in stage 3. 90 million after stage 3 is very hard to reach and I've never even been close.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:28 am 


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Location: Seattle, WA
Nice job. I'm not going to have any time to watch this until probably this weekend, but it's looking like I'm going to have to get back into this game earlier than I thought.

Personally, I think getting an 80mil stage 5 is much easier than a 60mil stage 3 (which would put you at 90mil assuming you left stage 2 with 30mil). My stage 3 and 4 both really suck though - I'll probably work on those first before I do anything else (since I can at least theoretically do 80mil each in stages 5 and 6, while I've yet to hit 60mil in either 3 or 4, which is pretty sad at the level I'm aiming for).
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:37 am 


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I think stage 3 and 5 are the hardest stages. 60 mil in stage 3 is roughly as difficult as 80 in stage 5, imo, there are many problematic things about stage 5 and just the tiniest mistimings end up being very noteworthy. I can do the pre-midboss portion in stage 5 quite well but after that it gets difficult. I notice that my bombs are not worth as much as MATSU's and when I focus on trying to time my bombs better, I end up not managing my damage on Sakuya enough which results in a suboptimal cancel. I noticed that a perfect Misdirection cancel is worth huge points, not to mention that if you're not quick enough, you don't even get the fairy you're supposed to suicide on.

Now, maybe this is something I need to change, but my route does not suicide on Sakuya's opening non spell. I am simply far too afraid of Marionette and I don't want to have 3 bombs during that spell. Rather, when I capture Marionette, I suicide immediately on stage 6. I know this is sub-optimal since the stage 6 suicide doesn't give me any graze whatsoever, but I just don't know if I have the balls to change this plan. It hopefully doesn't cost very much. Maybe a million or two at the most?
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:13 am 


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How does the slowdown rate work, exactly? I mean, how is it measured/computed?
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:16 am 


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chum wrote:
Stage 5 stuff


Well suiciding on Sakuya's 1st non-spell gives you maybe 100-200 extra graze, and then you get to cancel her 2nd non-spell (3-3.5mil). The 2nd nonspell by itself makes for about a 2.5 mil difference (assuming you capture the 1st spellcard and POC the point items), then with the extra graze you would probably be put at a 3mil advantage (maybe a little bit more). Even if you bomb Misdirection, you only lose less than 1mil from the spellcard bonus, plus maybe a little more if the bomb gets you an unoptimal cancel, (though in general Misdirection isn't worth that much anyways). Then you lose one bomb for the beginning of stage 6 - about a 2mil loss I think. So the risk/reward about evens out if you're confident in your bombing ability.

I took a quick comparison between our latest stage 5s. Like you said, perfectly capturing Masdirection is worth a lot, and imo it's not too hard to do once you get a feel for how much damage you do based on your position. Also, I notice that while milking midboss Sakuya's non-spell you tend to duck out early for each repetition, which costs you some graze. Even though I enter the midboss with about 100 less graze than you, I enter the spellcard with 100 more. I think fixing both of those problems would have put you at about 80mil that run, even with your current bomb route.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:24 am 


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heisenbergman wrote:
How does the slowdown rate work, exactly? I mean, how is it measured/computed?

Something like (("how many frames the game took" / "how much time the game took") / 60) I'd imagine.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:29 am 


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Drat, I forgot about the potential power-up cancel on Sakuya's second non spell. Of course I'm falling way behind with this route, it could be a matter of 5~ million points. I'm changing it from now on, but Marionette will be much scarier, I think it is a difficult spellcard (more difficult than almost everything on Lunatic)

I'm practicing a more aggressive method on the midboss Sakuya non, but I simply get killed too often and there is no way I'm risking that in a real run. Dying would ruin everything. I appreciate the advice, though, It's one of the things I need to get better at.

And what trap15 said about the slowdown rate. It's pretty unusual for anyone to experience notable slowdown in this game, but everyone apparently does get a tiny bit of it (unnoticeable)
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:22 am 


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trap15 wrote:
heisenbergman wrote:
How does the slowdown rate work, exactly? I mean, how is it measured/computed?

Something like (("how many frames the game took" / "how much time the game took") / 60) I'd imagine.

Thanks. I thought it was a percentage of how often you used the slow button :P /derp
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:15 pm 


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yeah, it's a measure of how badly a computer is handling the game; it would run slower and thus would be a bit easier... well, depending on how high the percentage was, anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:19 am 


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Normal - ReimuB
chum - 286,426,250 - C - 0,212% - Replay

Oh dear. Considering the mistakes in this run, I am more motivated than ever.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:29 pm 


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Ok, let's see. I am pretty upset, but in the end, it seems it was my fault, and not bullshit like I first thought.

Normal - ReimuB
chum - 287,674,830 - C - 0,251% - Replay

Not very spectacular, but an OK run until I cut it too close on stage 6 Sakuya midboss non. Attempted to bomb after the suicide graze, but was too late, and died again. Still, I don't think it would have been 300 mil.

The thing I'm upset about is the next run.

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As can be seen from the stage scores, the run was fairly good, any mistakes that occured ended up being minor and not devastating in the least. Stage 3 was the best of the lot, I actually managed to get in four rounds of Meiling's first noncard grazes before dying.

Next I illustrated my Meek position. Yeah, what happened was that Meek killed me about halfway through, even though I was (seemingly) in the safespot. So, here's what I do to determine if I'm in the safespot or not: I look at my needles, I make sure the needles are lined up correctly with the spellcard text... and it was. So imagine my surprise when I still died. I thought for sure that the game was bullshit for a while, until I realized "ah... the vertical position" so I checked a few replays and indeed, I was a bit higher up than them. So I drew a red line between the ying yang orb and "Player". That red line is supposed to go from the ying yang to the bottom of the "P". I was way off. The result is clearly visible. That death was a devastating blow to my score.

So, in the end, it was my fault, but I have never died due to being too high up or far down before, after doing this hundreds and hundreds of times. It ticks me off a bit since the run was quite good before that. The only condolence is "it could have been better".
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:44 am 


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I think you may have been able to get 300mil that run; if not that, then you'd be very close. 9 mil from bombing the knives noncard, plus the extra graze would have gotten you there.

Dying on the stage 6 midboss always sucks, since that's pretty much an instant run-ender. It doesn't help that it's so late in the game too. But you're doing very well - it's really motivating me to improve my own runs as well! I need to work out some kinks in my routes but hopefully I'll have some new scores to submit soon too.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:08 am 


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Location: Seattle, WA
Normal - ReimuB
marus-MPO - 294,096,210 - C - 0.225% - Replay

For some reason every time I play to practice I always end up doing better than in my "real" runs, lol. Anyways, I managed to not mess up my bomb/death route this time, but my score still wasn't all that. Everything was fairly average up to stage 4, and I thought I was doing good in stage 5 but my score ended up being pretty subpar. Thankfully stage 6 went (mostly) perfectly.

My original goal was 290mil, but I might as well go for 300mil at this point since Chum is shooting for that too. I still need to look at my stage 3 and 4 patterns and see where I'm losing points - my play time has been short so I've just been doing random runs to get back into the swing of things, but at this point trying to brute force a higher score is just too unreasonable. I practiced the more optimal graze pattern for Patchouli's 2nd nonspell, but I didn't feel confident going for it this time. Otherwise, a lot of small mistakes cost me a couple million here and there: getting antsy during the stage 3 boss, missing point items in stage 5, mistiming my bombs during Misdirection (I think? I need to look back at that again), slightly mistiming the kill of the stage 6 midboss nonspell (which is probably not an optimal pattern anyways but looks hella swag), ect. If I improve my consistency, and figure out where exactly I'm losing points in my patterns, then 300mil should be quite doable.
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 Post subject: Re: Touhou Koumakyou ~ the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. [PC]
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:45 pm 


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Wow, good score. I'm going to try to compete with you, but first I have to regain my consistency on the Meek grazespot (I've been failing it tons recently and it caused me to temporarily quit the game. I'll be back soon enough) and currently I'm also a bit preoccupied with some other games...

By the way, my "real" goal was actually to beat ISO's 2009 run, which I believe is the second highest score out there. By the looks of things, I'm sure you could beat that run as well. It's interesting because it is old and uses outdated strategies, that's why I think it's feasible to beat, without taking the game to its limits, I mean.
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