Out Zone

[Despatche]

I think Out Zone in MAME has mostly stabilized by now. The unlabelled parent that I'm looking at in the latest MAME seems to be a pretty normal version. Although, if this ever gets an M2 release, I fear the possible knowledge it reveals...

Have I mentioned that I hate endless categories? It seems like I adore them, but I actually despise them and recognize that they're a necessity for too many games. I would love nothing more than one version of a game, with one difficulty, featuring exactly one playable ship/character. Guess what the community wants!!!

[third_strike]

Third_strike - 9,999,999 - 7-3 - Yes - ShmupMAME v4.2 (Standard)

First time I remember going from 4-7 and very bad run to all. I've never had a run that lasted this long and the experience was horrible. That's why I've never played anything from Toaplan until now.

[Despatche]

Congrats! Starting to seem like the counterstop is the bare minimum at this point...

[Steven]

The super space sniper comes! Got my PCB today and fortunately, I survived, destroyed them all, and finally got the clear. Not sure why it took me so long to do this.

Steven - 1,610,500 - 2-1 - No - PCB (normal ROM set)

Spoiler

[Steven]

I thought that was going to be my last score for the year, but I somehow managed to no miss the first loop and half of the second today.

Steven - 2,679,760 - 2-6 - No - PCB (normal ROM set)

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[Steven]

Not really playing this for score, just for the fun of blowing shit up, but I unexpectedly broke my high score, so here it is. My right forearm is tired after smashing that fire button for 40 minutes. Maybe I should get an autofire thingy.

Steven - 2,723,640 - 2-6 - No - PCB (normal ROM set)

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Sorry for bad glare on picture.

[AKRATEN]

Managed a decent score this morning.
1 player side
Akraten - 1,949,370 - 2-2 - No - PCB

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[Steven]

lol tate

I wish I had an Egret II. I want to play some horizontal games but at the same time I don't want to buy any horizontal games just because I don't want to rotate the monitor in the New Astro City.

Anyway, those Zero Wing secrets will really help your score. I always forget how many C icons I have collected after a while, though. I'm planning on going for the counterstop on this game eventually since I'm already almost 1/3 of the way there, but I'm not sure when I'll do it.

[pieslice]

Is the Bitwave Steam Version Common Rom eligible here?

Afaik it's analogous to the "Harder" Set in MAME

[Steven]

Bitwave common = MAME older

[pieslice]

pieslice - 1,432,560 - 2-1 - Yes (10hz) - Bitwave Steam Version Common ROM

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[Steven]

Steven - 3,141,940 - 2-7 - No - PCB (Standard)

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Died to final boss on loop 2. Shameful display.

[Mero]

Mero - 1,734,760 - 2-1 - Yes - Astro City Mini V



I think this is the normal version, it has the intro.

[Steven]

If it isn't the hard version or the prototype (you'll know if it is in both cases), it has this energy item box on stage 2

Spoiler

and the Tatsujin ship appears on stage 4 when you have 7 bombs and destroy the door at the beginning (no, you do not need to start the stage with 7 bombs; you can start with more than that and waste them until you have only 7, although you are throwing away points by doing so and getting nothing of real value in return, especially since the Tatsujin ship can mess up your scoring by shooting the Zero Wing ship too early, causing further loss of points), it's the normal version.

Bitwave's "common" version is missing this item box and I think the Tatsujin ship does not spawn, so that version is not the normal version of the game.

Astro City Mini V should be normal. I'll go check.

Yep, it's normal.

[Mero]

Yes that energy box is definitely present, though I haven't triggered that Tatsujin ship yet, I must have never had exactly 7 bombs when I reach that part. Thanks for the info.

[Despatche]

Honestly at this point I'm beginning to think nearly everything besides like two sets is a bootleg.

[Steven]

So yeah, about this game.

I asked Uemura-san about the various versions of this game and he said some interesting stuff. Apparently the hard version is in fact an export version of the game. It is also not the intended version. The intended version of the game is the one that is currently listed as Out Zone in MAME, not any of the (harder) or (older) ones. Sorry, people who like the hard version, but the game's lead designer/lead programmer says that version is weird and that the normal version is actually the intended one.

[Despatche]

Really! The current parent is actually the correct board, for once? I thought the "common" board was what is currently some older set in MAME? Or is that no longer true?

[Steven]

Right now MAME has

Out Zone
Out Zone (harder)
Out Zone (old)
Out Zone (older)
Out Zone (oldest)
Zero Wing conversion

The one that MAME just calls Out Zone is the intended version of the game, so yeah, for once MAME got it right somehow. If you're playing for score, I wouldn't bother playing the oldest ROM, as that's missing the Zero Wing ships, but it's also missing half of the music and a lot of the enemies are placeholders and the stage design is not finalized, so I'm pretty sure it's a prototype. As far as I know, there are probably no differences between the Zero Wing conversion PCB's ROM and the hard version ROM, with only the PCB itself being different.

If you compare the ROMs in detail, this is what you get

Out Zone
Primary/intended/standard/normal/best version of the game, as confirmed by Uemura-san. This is the one you want to play, so you can basically forget about the rest unless you want to play the hard ROM. On Astro City Mini V with a lot of input lag.

Out Zone (harder) and Zero Wing conversion
Export version(s). Possibly only released in Europe. Bitwave released this as the "hard" version.

Out Zone (old)
Don't know too much about this one. I can check it out if anyone really cares.

Out Zone (older)
Closer to the final version than the (oldest) ROM, but still missing some stuff, like an energy item box on stage 2 (the one I posted a picture of a few posts above) and I think also the Tatsujin ship on stage 4. Who knows what other differences it may or may not have. Bitwave released this as the "common" version of the game.

Out Zone (oldest)
Clearly an unfinished prototype. Stage design, enemy placement, Zero Wing ships, music, and more are either missing entirely or not finalized. Bitwave released this as the "normal" version of the game for some really strange reason. Bitwave later added the missing music tracks in a patch, so it's actually slightly different from the (oldest) ROM that you can play on MAME/MiSTer, but I'm pretty sure they didn't change anything else.

[Despatche]

Hm, okay, so this tells me that what is currently labeled as "(older)" is what used to be thought of as the "common" board I heard about (which is probably why Bitwave uses that word), and it was so similar to the actual common board that nobody noticed the difference. Thanks for the info.

[Steven]

Yeah, this game is a mess of different versions and very little information about the game's development is available. It's been a very long time since this game was made, but Uemura-san has mentioned before that he vividly remembers a lot about the development of Hellfire because it was so difficult for him to make, and he's also stated that Out Zone was the single most difficult game for him to make in his entire career, so if he remembers the stuff he struggled with we should be okay.

I still think it's really great that management made him make this type of game, which he doesn't actually seem to like, and then because he doesn't like these types of games he specifically made it so that even he could enjoy it, had great difficulty making it, and now he loves it and considers it his greatest work, although his favourite Toaplan game to actually play is Slap Fight.

The (old) version is a bit of a mystery, though. I remember that I checked it out a while ago, but I don't remember any differences between it and the normal version. I was not especially familiar with the game at that time, so it's possible that I missed something. I'd have to go check it out again to see how it is.

[Steven]

Steven - 3,669,270 - 3-2 - No - PCB (Standard)

Spoiler

Finally got the 2-ALL, but game overed by falling into holes on 3-2.

[Jaimers]

Jaimers - 9,999,999 - 15-1 - Yes - ShmupMAME v4.2 (Set 2)

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video

Oh yeah I guess I never submitted my latest PB here.

[Steven]

Jaimers - 9,999,999 - 15-1 - Yes - ShmupMAME v4.2 (Set 2)

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video

Oh yeah I guess I never submitted my latest PB here.

Delicious counterstop. I feel like I'd absolutely lose track of what loop I am on if I played the game for that long. This is a pretty easy counterstop, right? I always die on the loop to dumb shit like falling into holes or not paying attention, but I'd like to get the counterstop eventually once I stop doing dumb stuff like that.

BTW you should put your Andro Dunos II score up too.

[Steven]

Steven - 3,691,960 - 3-2 - Yes - PCB (Standard)

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counterstop coming eventually™

[Steven]

Steven - 3,759,750 - 3-1 - Yes - PCB (Standard)

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[Steven]

Steven - 3,770,700 - 3-1 - Yes - PCB (Standard)

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Had to stop playing to go to work again. Should probably stop playing right before I have to go to work.

[Some-Mist]

Some-Mist - 2,558,660 - 2-6 - Yes - Bitwave Steam Version Common ROM

Spoiler

gonna haveta try to beat that score on the PCB now

[Steven]

It's sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better on PCB, if only because the audio actually works properly.

Get those Zero Wing ships; it will give your score a massive boost!

[Some-Mist]

I definitely have to figure out how to trigger those ships. I haven’t done too much research on how to score or if any boss can be/should be milked, but if I have the time I’m going to work on tech.

I’m actually surprised I made it to the 6th stage of the 2nd loop on my first go but I went into it with 5 life stock and after the first couple of stages it wasn’t too bad