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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:37 pm 


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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
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Location: Sweden
Thanks, guys!

Prickly Angler wrote:
Concerning your question at 25:30 in you video it is done on a certain timing, you have to wait for the boss to lift off but you don't have to wait too much after that.
Ahaa, it's about the timing, will try it out next time. Thanks!

Interesting to hear about your strategies. Sound like you have a 30M score in you if you also add the bomb bonuses. I think I could have 30M too. As you say I could get better multipliers on the stage 2 and 3. Stage 5 has a lot of room for improvement too. Stage 3 and stage 5 bosses also could be improved quite a bit. But I will play some other games the coming months, so next year maybe.

If you record at some point I would be interested. I am using elgato hd60s and a basic SCART-->HDMI converter for 30$ and am happy with the setup.

@Plasmo: I don't have a list of enemy base values. If a run is ruined I sometimes use the run to find out what enemies are worth. I could be willing to help compile such list next time I get to it. As you say, it is very useful knowledge as it affects priorities.

That Shippu list is really useful. I have a 2-All on that game but never tried the scoring trick of spin killing enemies. I'll consider doing a replay video on that with commentary unless Project-Ako or some one else already have done such video?

@EmperorIng: I have two entries in the top 10 list so please remove the old one from the previous scoring thread. Also sorry I messed up the format in earlier posts, I edited the previous post with the proper formatting.
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:55 am 



Joined: 24 Jan 2020
Posts: 101
Quote:
I was particularly intrigued by your knowledge about all the enemy base values. Is there a list of them somewhere? Maybe this would be something for the new shmups wiki?


I actually have such a list, I'll upload it tonight in Icarus's thread and of course you can use it for new shmup wiki, just it some time to translate it from french. I'm also planning to do a full guide for the game, covering just about everything that needs to be know about the game including the lore etc, but since I keep procrastinating It'll take sometime to make haha (first I have to finish my Darius Gaiden guide which is like 90% complete). In the meantime if you have any question about ennemy strategy or scoring feel free to ask ;)

Quote:
Ahaa, it's about the timing, will try it out next time


Unfortunatelly you won't be able to do it and milk the turretts at the same time, it's one or the other (unless you do fast and use a bomb).

Quote:
Interesting to hear about your strategies. Sound like you have a 30M score in you if you also add the bomb bonuses. I think I could have 30M too


Theoretically yes but the bomb trick isn't that easy to pull, I've tried it a bit recently (for a long time and because of this interview I though the bug was removed from the Saturn version : viewtopic.php?t=41408) but it breaks my chains randomly and makes me take stupid risks to get bombs : thing is I am so used to the routes I'm taking that it feels really weird to try new ones. You can't chain as well when you need to watch the carrier all the time, also I use a few bombs to get below 10% ennemies remaining at the beginning of stage 4, and generally speak I like to feel that I can use a defensive bomb if anything goes wrong (like with the 3rd boss's randomness for say). But generally speaking the score you can get with the bomb bug is so ludacris that it's better to first focus on bomb collecting rather than chaining when beginning to go for score. In my 22 M run I've missed quite some points on the last few bosses (which you milk way better than I do), I could maybe do 25 in a near perfect run so with the bomb bonuses I'm sure you can do way over than 30 millions when you'll improve your chaining on the levels :wink:

Quote:
Stage 5 has a lot of room for improvement too


Stage 5 isn't all that scary when you learn a proper route, learning your route is the hard part though. The last part is quite random so I use defensive bombs ocasionnally, that way I can still do X4 on the submarines which are worth a lot

Quote:
If you record at some point I would be interested. I am using elgato hd60s and a basic SCART-->HDMI converter for 30$ and am happy with the setup.


I am a slouch in the computer/hardware/software/electronic department but it will happen eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:21 pm 


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Prickly Angler: I would be very interested in such list of enemy base values.

Quote:
(for a long time and because of this interview I though the bug was removed from the Saturn version : viewtopic.php?t=41408) but it breaks my chains randomly and makes me take stupid risks to get bombs : thing is I am so used to the routes I'm taking that it feels really weird to try new ones. You can't chain as well when you need to watch the carrier all the time
I hear you. I feel the same about Batrider and Shippu mahou with some new techniques that seeminly prompts changing the whole approach.
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:12 pm 



Joined: 24 Jan 2020
Posts: 101
I've uptated the list :https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2078&p=1428193#p1428193

Yeah I can see what you mean, good thing is I have the chains already well memorized in my head so if I ever want to exploit the bomb trick my score could only go up, even with just a few bombs. I also checked KTL-NAL's video again and I was wrong : you can do the milking on the big laser cannons and skip the two horrible turetts, but I'm positive it has to do with where the scrolling on the screen is before it goes down to the left reactor.


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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:10 pm 



Joined: 24 Jan 2020
Posts: 101
ARCADE MODE

Swordfish (S.O.Q 004) :

Prickly Angler & 22 049 800 & ALL & SS/JPN

ARCADE MODE

Mackerel (S.O.Q 010) :

Prickly Angler & 11 927 620 & stage 6 & SS/JPN

ARCADE MODE

Scallop (S.O.Q 024) :

Prickly Angler & 12 647 660 & stage 6 & SS/JPN


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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:48 pm 


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Wow, posting scores for all three ships; that's awesome!

You've even bumped Kollision off my top 8 board, and now I'm precariously at the bottom... I better do something about that sometime :P

Congrats, especially with the Scallop. That ship is really hard to use (and score well with)!
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:37 pm 



Joined: 24 Jan 2020
Posts: 101
Thanks !!

Using the S.O.Q 010 (blue) and 025 (green) really made me improve my skills with the S.O.Q 004. S.O.Q 010 made me understand how the half-circle lock could be used in a very efficient way (the beginning of stage 3 being a very good exemple : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1qhQpM-QuI), and 025 made me better at swap-locking, a technique I can't use too much since I play on the Saturn pad.

And not worries man, Souky is one of the the hardest Raizing games to clear, if not the hardest (don't know about Brave Blade and 1944 but it's def harder than all the other ones), you should be very proud of that clear !

I need to get back to the game when I'll get a recording set-up this summer, hopefully I'll also be able to do some streams :lol:. DMC's handling of the two final bosses definetely made me want to come back to it, you can't imagine how happy I was when I first saw his amazing commented western record :mrgreen: :mrgreen:.

Note : the high-score on the video was done after my save got erased, but thankfully I took a picture !


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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:57 am 


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Arcade Mode

Swordfish
Maucast & 6 & 16,898,270 & SS/JPN (RetroArch)

Image

Highest non-clear score yay! This is taking me long... I had 0 lives and bombs when i entered stage 6
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:10 pm 


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And with that, I'm finished! Bumped off my own scoreboard...

But can I truly be disappointed when I have another great score to add to the topic? You're almost there MauCast! It's true that I needed at least two or so lives when I got my 1cc to survive the final stage - and as many bombs as I could store up! The final level is such a wild gauntlet; I'm impressed you made it as far as you did with so few resources.
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 9:54 pm 


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Nice scores, guys!

MauCast wrote:
Img

That location is a tricky one. Popcorn enemies getting very aggresive and then the turrets adding lots of bullets too. I die there a lot or waste a bomb.
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 11:45 pm 



Joined: 24 Jan 2020
Posts: 101
Maybe not the best technique but here's what I do : I take two levels of power-ups to handle that nasty popcorn section. With just shooting and going left and right you're ok but, you still need to play very agressive to not let any popcorn drones pass. Then for the two nasty turrets I point blank the right one with shot before doing a pinpoint lock with both turrets (it destroys the right one), then I finish the other turret with shot after dodging what it sends. Hard to do but this method is pretty consistent, If I do it right I can save a bomb on this section.


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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 7:59 am 


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Thanks, will definitely try that out next time. :arrow:
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 12:11 am 


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Location: ARG
Arcade Mode

Swordfish
Maucast & ALL & 18,923,770 & SS/JPN (RetroArch)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuQhpkwrLAQ

Clutch clear, silly deaths. Such a fantastic game

I would like to thank Prickly Angler and EmperorIng (as always) for some tips and support :)
And DMC commented run which is quite inspirational.
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 10:07 pm 


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Congrats on the clear! Clearing stage 6 is a nice feel. :)

Great takedown of the stage 4 boss with a x4 multiplier by the way. I also liked that you used the homing/lock-on bomb on the stage 6 mid-boss, was that to preserve the lower turrets (https://youtu.be/IuQhpkwrLAQ?t=1206)? That's probably better than my strategy there to use the normal bomb.
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 3:01 am 


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Thanks
DMC wrote:
I also liked that you used the homing/lock-on bomb on the stage 6 mid-boss, was that to preserve the lower turrets (https://youtu.be/IuQhpkwrLAQ?t=1206)? That's probably better than my strategy there to use the normal bomb.

Yes, though it felt easier doing this way since they are also at ground level (only lock on shots)
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:25 pm 



Joined: 24 Jan 2020
Posts: 101
GG again on that great clear Maucast :D :D. I was so exicted when I saw your run.

Def gonna steal some of what you and DMC do when I'll come back to it ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:05 pm 


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Location: Sweden
Swordfish
DMC & ALL & 29,948,261 & SS/JPN

The Hi scoring Shmup Law states that if your goal is 30M, you have to obtain a 29.9M score first.
pic: https://ibb.co/q10fxs8

Huge thanks to Prickly Angler who gave me a lot of info on the first stages, so I probably get 1-2 mil more from there now. I got the bomb bonus 11 times, but I actually got 13 ones a few runs before, but of course I messed that one up.
Will try to get above the 30M threshold before another break.
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Last edited by DMC on Fri Dec 31, 2021 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:32 pm 


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INCREDIBLE!

Congratulations on such an awesome score DMC. The 30 million barrier is soon to be broken. 13 bomb bonuses is just crazy!
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:19 pm 


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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
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Swordfish
DMC & ALL & 32,319,972 & SS/JPN
pic: https://imgur.com/a/OuQXLxs

First time I got a 30M one-credit clear. :)

I'll take quite a long break from playing, and then I hope to practice a bit more so that I can avoid bombing and dieing before stage 6 (to get bomb bonus going through stage 6). If so I will probably do another video with commentary on scoring for the few Raizing scoring nerds out there!

Scoring reflections:
I collected 12 bomb bonuses this time (worth about 8M). On this run I had to use a bomb on stage 4 boss, and died on stage 5 boss. So there could have been a few more bomb bonuses, but multipliers went generally very good.

Still more than 10M away from KTL-NAL's score, but getting closer. :mrgreen:
He collected 25 bomb bonuses, so that means about 8.5M difference (collecting bombs sometimes mean sacrificing multipliers though so it is not that straightforward). And then there are maybe ~3M on multipliers/killing enemies?
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:52 pm 


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Our first 30 million clear in the community... What a feat! Congratulations DMC. What an achievement.

I know I would have fun watching the video. :lol: You and I will have to coordinate soon anyhow for PricklyAngler's run on shmup slam 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:12 pm 


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Thanks!
Yeah, let's do a call to coordinate. I never done a shmup slam commentary so it will be good to chat a bit about it. I'll ask Prickly Angler to arrange.
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:32 pm 


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Outstanding achievement! :shock: I salute you, sir! 30m is massive.

Would love to see any higher scoring replay from you - with or without commentary!
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 6:52 pm 



Joined: 24 Jan 2020
Posts: 101
Huge GGs DMC, curious to see replay as well :)


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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:40 pm 


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Location: Utah
Hello all,

New to the forum and new to terra diver, just bought it. Love this game, I’ll be working towards a 1cc on this game all summer. Here’s what I’ve done so far.

Tutpoptic

Mackerel & 4,439,670 & stage 3 & ST-V

Scallop & 4,178,130 & stage 3 & ST-V

Swordfish & 4,125,180 & stage 4 & ST-V


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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:02 pm 


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Posts: 982
Location: Nashville , TN
I have been jammin on this game lately

Arcade Version

Akraten - 5,065,830 - Stage 4 - Sega STV - Swordfish

:D

Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: Soukyugurentai (Raizing, 1996/1997)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:03 pm 


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Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 4782
Location: Chicago, IL
Thanks both of you! Sorry I missed your score, tutpoptic. All added now! It's awesome that I get not one, but two posters actually showing off some sweet STV scores in the thread. There's a first time for everything!

In some potentially exciting news I am trying to coordinate a hack with Olifante, shmup hacker extraordinaire, to see if we can put the arcade value scores back into the PS1 port of Souky. Why? Mainly because: a) it's easy to hack a ps1 game, and b) it's easy to emulate a ps1 game.

So even though the PS1 port looks and sounds worse than the saturn original (and has more slowdown), the biggest change scorewise is that it fixes the bomb scoring bug present on the Saturn and arcade originals (collecting more than 10 bombs gives a huge bonus, refer to DMC's commentary in the thread). Implementing this change would at least allow theoretically more players to enjoy Souky in a manner more comparable to the arcade game.

Hopefully this can be worked out; I will keep the thread posted! Hopefully there aren't other idiosyncracies between the two. It felt pretty similar when I was credit feeding through the ps1 port's arcade mode...
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