Hellsinker NEW THREAD

[RNGmaster]

Developed by Ruminant's Whimper. Incredible game, if you can figure out how the hell your abilities work and what you need to do to score (hint: graze shit, milk shit, high rank erry day). To that end, this strategy thread might help.

Japanese replay site.

Here is the last HS thread.

WARNING
AN AWESOME SCORE IS CONFLICT WITH US

KEEP YOUR DIGNITY

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FORMAT
Game Type (Full/Short/Extra) - Bootleg Ghost
Player - Character - Speed Control - Way of Life - Stage (Include Behind/Lead for 1-3, SHRINE after Segment X/NO SHRINE) - Spirits

SOLIDSTATE

FULL SEQUENCE ORDER
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Segment Order&Spirits
R=1&Zaarock&Fossil Maiden&Momentary&Drastic&ALL [TLB3]&1L/2L/3L, SH after 7&91,074
R=2&Noah!&Minogame&Momentary&Drastic&ALL [TLB3]&1B/2L/3B, SH after 7&54,037
R=3&Cadrin&Minogame&Momentary&Drastic&ALL [TLB3]&1B/2L/3L, SH after 7&44,277
R=4&O. Van Bruce&Fossil Maiden&Alternative&Drastic&ALL [TLB3]&1L/2L/3L, SH after 6&41,704
R=5&RNG&Fossil Maiden&Momentary&Drastic&ALL [TLB3]&1L/2L/3L, SH after 6&26,238
R=6&TRC&Minogame&Momentary&Drastic&ALL [TLB1]&1B/2L/3B, SH after 6&21,347
R=7&Raydere&Kagura[3]&Momentary&Drastic&ALL [TLB3]&1B/2L/3L/ Shrine after 5&21,300
R=8&Sasupoika&Kagura[3]&Momentary&Moderate&ALL [TLB3]&1B/2L/3L, SH after 5&17,892[/table]

SHORT MISSION
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Segment Order&Spirits
R=1&Raydere&Kagura[3]&Momentary&Drastic&ALL[TLB3]&2L/3L/5/6, Shrine after 5&20,082[/table]

Extra 1: The Great Majority
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Spirits
R=1& & & & & &[/table]

Extra 2: The Way of All Flesh
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Spirits
R=1& & & & & &[/table]

ASPIRANT:

FULL SEQUENCE ORDER
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Segment Order&Spirits
R=1&Zaarock&Fossilmaiden&Mom&Mod&ALL TLB3&1L/2L/3B, SH YES, after 6th&51,847
R=2&LtC&Kagura2&Mom&Mod&ALL TLB3&1B/2L/3L, SH YES, after 7th&21,387
R=3&Ransom&Minogame&Alt&Mod&ALL TLB3&1B/2L/3B, SH YES, after 7th&16,590
R=4&Skyrandia&Minogame&Mom&Mod&8&1B/2B/3L, SH YES, after ?&8,943
R=5&Macaw&Minogame&Mom&Mod&8&1B/2B/3L, SH YES, after ?&5,846[/table]


SHORT MISSION
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Segment Order&Spirits
R=1&&&&&&&[/table]

Extra 1: The Great Majority
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Spirits
R=1&LtC&Kagura2&Mom&Mod&Clear&9,685[/table]

Extra 2: The Way of All Flesh
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Spirits
R=1& & & & & &[/table]

ADEPT:

FULL SEQUENCE ORDER
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Segment Order&Spirits
R=1&Zaarock&Fossilmaiden&Mom&Dra&ALL TLB3&1L/2L/3L, SH Yes, after 7th&75,583[/table]


SHORT MISSION
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Segment Order&Spirits
R=1&&&&&&&[/table]

Extra 1: The Great Majority
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Spirits

R=1&Scionox&Kagura3&Mom&Dra&Clear&11,216
R=2&KMG&Kagura3&Mom&Dra&Clear&10,250[/table]

Extra 2: The Way of All Flesh
[table]R=#&Player&Executor&Speed control&Way of Life&Segment&Spirits
R=1&KMG&Kagura3&Mom&Dra&Clear&5,025[/table]

[Zaarock]

Nice to see this get revived again, maybe we will see some scoring competition at least when the translation is out :p

Some ideas on what you could improve on macaws layout:

- add a token score board for each category like they had on the japanese replay site; the tokens are basically score items that have no effect on spirit score so collecting them would be an alternate scoring system.

- change SH YES, etc. to SH after X and no SH if the shrine isn't visited or something like that to make it more simple and take less space. Most runs will have it anyway though.

- replace "score attack" with Extra 1: The Great Majority and add leaderboards for Extra 2: The Way of All Flesh etc.

- add link to strat thread, ruminants whimper site etc.

[RNGmaster]

Will do for WAY OF ALL FLESH, GREAT MAJORITY and Shrine. Not sure about tokens - nobody really cares about them and they just make score submission look even more intimidating.

I'm not sure about adding links to RW's site since it seems to be totally defunct. Same with hellsinker.net, sadly. I can't even find the site that used to have a bunch of cool screenshots, leading me to the impression that this game doesn't get any recognition, even in Japan .

[Noah!]

Noah! - Minogame - Unplugged - Mom - Dra - Sol - ALL[TLB] (1B/2L/3B) (SH after 7th) - 54,037

CORRECT Replay file here. It's pretty amateur hour, but at least it's a run.

I like this scoring system because it's not really a scoring system but more like when you go to the gym and decide to start off with some cardio, then move to the weights, and finish off with some Pilates. And the same holds true in Hellsinker. A salvo of needles opens up and you get out the grazing gear, which is followed by a wave of hefty enemies to do a bit of interval-milking upon. Keep it up for long enough and bam, you got your high score and some firmly-toned glutes.

EDIT: correct replay uploaded, stupid fenceposts...

[RNGmaster]

Oh my. That's amazing. Minogame gets really good spirits from grazing, I know that, but how do you do Shrine of Farewell and not miss the crystals? And what is the spirit building area?

Here's my trashy score.



RNG - Fossilmaiden - Unplugged - Mom - Dra - Sol - 8 - (1L/2L/3B) (SH after 6th) - 14,533

Got 300 crystals in Shrine on a practice go just now, so there's lots of room for improvement. Also the whole run was stupid in general (look at the number of deaths in Shrine, I don't even know what to say :V), but hey, breakthrough on Stage 3 ain't bad.

[Noah!]

Oh my. That's amazing. Minogame gets really good spirits from grazing, I know that, but how do you do Shrine of Farewell and not miss the crystals? And what is the spirit building area?

Well, the crystals kinda funnel toward you already, so you don't have to do too much to get the majority of 'em. It's all about doing little taps to follow the stream, and letting the crystals do the work for you.

Also, what do you mean by spirit building area? To be honest, almost all of my score is coming from immortality bonuses, Garland, and immortality bonuses gained while fighting Garland. I think that, just by not missing too much, pushing back the Shrine (primarily by not missing too much), and triggering Garland, it's possible to pull out a pretty respectable score without having to resort to milking and stuff.

[RNGmaster]

Also, what do you mean by spirit building area? To be honest, almost all of my score is coming from immortality bonuses, Garland, and immortality bonuses gained while fighting Garland. I think that, just by not missing too much, pushing back the Shrine (primarily by not missing too much), and triggering Garland, it's possible to pull out a pretty respectable score without having to resort to milking and stuff.

Spirit building area is the part of your attack that raises an enemy's spirit value, like Fossilmaiden's yellow sword edge. Sorry for the unclear teminology.

It's reassuring to know that the TLB bonus is in the tens of thousands of spirits, since that means that huge improvements to my score are just a matter of getting to Garland/Lost Property with a high Immortality and full lives in stock. I was worried that catching up to your score would mean abusing the shit out of arcane milking techniques.

[Noah!]

Spirit building area is the part of your attack that raises an enemy's spirit value, like Fossilmaiden's yellow sword edge. Sorry for the unclear teminology.

Whoops, sorry, I usually call it "yellow goop."

For Minogame, I think it's the small blue aura that surrounds him when firing the normal main shot. From what I've seen, it doesn't raise the spirit level as fast as other executors' goop attacks (fossilmaiden's sword, kagura 1's flower), but it's also not as damaging to enemies, so in the end it balances out. Just get in a position where the actual main shot won't hit them, and milk away!

And yeah, this means that, if you're hardcore about milking, you're pretty much fighting bosses by getting within point-blank range of them, and then firing in the opposite direction. Hellsinker, ladies and gentlemen.

[O. Van Bruce]

Fresh from the market...



died like... 10 times on the Shrine of Farewell? it's been a long time since I played that boss rush.

Edit: Died 6 times during the shrine of farewell...

PD: Oh crap, forgot this:

O. Van Bruce- Fossilmaiden - Unplugged - Alt - Pru - Sol - 6 - (1L/2L/3L) (SH after 5th) - 18,263

[RNGmaster]

Huh, that screen says you died on stage 6 :V Nice job though.

I'll try again today. If I do a better job at 2 and 3 Lead, and don't totally fuck up Perpetual Calendar, I can definitely improve my score.

[Zaarock]

-misinformation-

[RNGmaster]

GUESS WHAT



MOTHERFUCKERS, THAT'S 2ND PLACE!

RNG - Fossilmaiden - Unplugged - Mom - Dra - Sol - ALL (TLB3) - (1L/2L/3L) (SH after 6th) - 26,238

[O. Van Bruce]

Well, it's kinda hard to get rid of the old "survivor" habits... plus I started practicing score like... 4 days ago...

Ah, my bad... I actually copied over your last example and forgot to change the stage number...

[Zaarock]

Looks like Distorted rank instead of unplugged to me, or did you switch it after the run or something?

Maybe the boards should be split based on Bootleg Ghost setting once more scores get submitted, since they're basically a difficulty/style setting like DFK. Same with the Rank setting maybe but that might be unnecessary (distorted would always have highest potential though and bombing won't drop rank as much in it because the lowest is 7, as in less rank manipulation is needed)

[RNGmaster]

AFAIK a Full Sequence Order is always Unplugged. Anyways I changed it after the run, yeah, since I did Great Majority.

I can post my replay if you don't believe me.

[Cadrin]

EDIT: um, Noah? It appears that you've uploaded the wrong replay, mate. This one only shows you getting 25584 spirits. (Though it drives home the point that not dying and getting immortality bonuses alone gives a lot of spirit.)

Yeah, you can only set stella fluctuations for Segment Selection, I think. Well, now you can read the manual and check it out.
Lookie what I did while starting on a new save state to see how the translation team handled the unique scenes (I don't know your infernal days / Welcome to the garden, our epigones / I know your infernal days)! I admit, I have no idea how that worked out, especially since I'm that bad at the game (36 DAMAGED! What the hell...). Well, guess the important thing is, that makes it the second best score, so suck iiiiiiiiiit! >:D



Cadrin - Minogame - Aut - Mod - Sol - ALL[TLB] (1B/2L/3L, SHRINE after Segment 6) - 39,400

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http://speedy.sh/wExUf/fullrep-sequence-minogame-slot4.rep

RECORDED IN 1.009 (HAVING ANY OTHER VERSION WILL LIKELY DESYNCHRONIZE THE REPLAY AND RENDER IT UNUSABLE)[/GLORIOUSCAPS]

[Rex Cavalier]

Not really that good of a run for Extra 1, but i got over 10k, and i decided if i go over 10k, i'll post there ^_^ .
So there we go ^o^!

SPIDER - KAGURA(3) - Unplugged - Mom - Dra - Ade - Clear - 10429

Recorded in version 1.009 with english patch(not 100% sure if that matters).

Might improve run in future ^_^ .

[O. Van Bruce]

Just your random Hellsinker run... It's funny how in Garland's start up my wireless controller stopped working and I was like 10-12 seconds pressing keyboard buttons frantically to pause the game... I managed to make it work again after losing 3 lives

O. Van Bruce - Fossil Maiden - Unplugged - Alt - Dra - Sol - Clear (TLB) - (1L/2L/3L) (SH after 6th) - 41704

[SuperSoaker360]

I love aggressive play on the first Extra Stage. How fast can one go?



Extra 1: The Great Majority
KMG - KAGURA(3) - Unplugged - Mom - Dra - Ade - Clear - 10,250

[SuperSoaker360]

A much more methodical scoring stage when compared to the first Extra. Quite a lot of chokes on this run but I'm pretty sure with enough effort, I can break 7k Spirits.



Extra 2: The Way of all Flesh
KMG - KAGURA(3) - Unplugged - Mom - Dra - Ade - Clear - 5,025

I should get around to trying out a Full Sequence Order run but the length of the game is intimidating; I don't think I have the endurance to keep scoring for that long.

[Cadrin]

SuperSoaker360: could you please provide a replay of your Extra Stage 2 run? I have never seen anyone score that high on it...

Oskar van Bruce: what do you mean by "Garland"? Did you not make it to the true final boss? Well done anyway. Could you post a replay, too? It's always entertaining to watch other people from the scoreboard play the game, especially if they score higher than me.

Also, a general question: is there a way to skip the replay directly to segments you want to see? Or is fast-forwarding the only option?

Recorded in version 1.009 with english patch(not 100% sure if that matters).

Looks like the new versions fixed most of the desync issues, so I guess it does not matter after all. Sorry for being confusing!

Anyway... Here's my first actual run in weeks. I was trying to get used to manual speed control instead of automatic. I got destroyed. I mean, I made 40 mistakes... and finished the final boss with just one or two lives remaining. Well, I'm happy that I am now a bit more comfortable with non-automatic movement speed and that I managed to finish the game with only 5 lives max. That's a first for me.

big-ass pic

Cadrin - Minogame - Mom - Dra - Sol - ALL[TLB] (1B/2L/3L, SHRINE after Segment 7) - 44277

I am also extremely happy because of the lucky Rusted Dragon fight. I never got hit despite almost getting seizures from trying to figure out where to move. And many bullets practically flew over my hitbox. Just unbelievable. In fact, through some divine intervention, I managed to clear the entire Segment 4 without getting hit. But other than that and somehow getting to the shrine after Segment 7, I consider that game to be worse than my previous one. I mostly just upload this to reclaim my second place.

Why is it worse despite the better score? Well, everything kind of went to hell after segment 5. I become way too stressed and just can't handle the heat after a while. I was a twitching mess during the final boss fight. I guess I could take breaks between later segments in order to calm down. There were also many little screw-ups, too many to list.

[SuperSoaker360]

SuperSoaker360: could you please provide a replay of your Extra Stage 2 run? I have never seen anyone score that high on it...

The Way Of All Flesh replay.
I have yet to go back and try to string together that "perfect" run, but it gives a basic demonstration of scoring with KAGURA(3).

Cadrin - Minogame - Mom - Dra - Sol - ALL[TLB] (1B/2L/3L, SHRINE after Segment 7) - 44277

Really nice score regardless of your screw-ups!

[TrippyCake]

Come on everyone, let's score some more spirits~.

TRC - Minogame - Mom - Dra - Sol - Segment8(TLB) (1B/2L/3B, SH after 5) - 10606

Screenshot/Replay coming when I get a somewhat higher score.
Scoring in Hellsinker is complicated at first, but once you figure it out it all falls into place.

[TrippyCake]

TRC - Minogame - Mom - Dra - Sol - ALL (Boss Level 1) - (1B/2L/3B, SH after 6) - 21347

[CptRansom]

Talked about Hellsinker with Zaarock a bit this morning and checked out the HS thread... and I really think scores #1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 (FSO) and #1, 2 (TGM) should be invalid as they are not played on default settings. Reducing your max lives to 5 instead of 6 gives you more immortality bonuses which have a drastic effect on score. Combine that with people using Solidstate instead of Aspirant to bomb at SOL 3 instead of SOL 5 for easier survival...

Yeah.

Not to mention how forcing everyone to play on defaults would clean up the appearance of the scoreboard since there'd be no need to post way of life or bootleg ghost.

Just my two cents. Sorry to bump without posting a score, RNG.

[O. Van Bruce]

Talked about Hellsinker with Zaarock a bit this morning and checked out the HS thread... and I really think scores #1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 (FSO) and #1, 2 (TGM) should be invalid as they are not played on default settings. Reducing your max lives to 5 instead of 6 gives you more immortality bonuses which have a drastic effect on score. Combine that with people using Solidstate instead of Aspirant to bomb at SOL 3 instead of SOL 5 for easier survival...

Yeah.

Not to mention how forcing everyone to play on defaults would clean up the appearance of the scoreboard since there'd be no need to post way of life or bootleg ghost.

Just my two cents. Sorry to bump without posting a score, RNG.

It's been accepted by everyone, including japanese scorers that you can score on those settings.

And really, is it your hobby to come into an score thread of some game you don't even play for score and start telling people how to do it?

Ah, oh yeah, this is drama.system11.org... nothing unussual...

[CptRansom]

It's been accepted by everyone, including japanese scorers that you can score on those settings.

Source? If that's how it is, then that's fine, but it's unusual for scores to be accepted on non-default settings. Maybe set up different tables for different bootleg ghosts?

And really, it's your hobby to come into an score thread of some game you don't even play for score and start telling people how to do it?

Ah, oh yeah, this is drama.system11.org... nothing unussual...

There was absolutely nothing hostile about what I said, and I REALLY don't feel like attacking me was even remotely necessary.

[O. Van Bruce]

The japanese scoreboards are full of replays with those settings, including the WR holder. I don't have a link because I've never been interested in beating the japanese players but someone from this thread ccould provide you with the japanese scoreboard for hellsinker.

Edit: in fact, you have it at the start of the thread.

[Zaarock]

Even if you don't care about defaults it's obvious that scores between solidstate and adept aren't comparable, they should have seperate boards.

Nothing wrong with playing on solidstate and yeah the WRs are done with it too so it makes sense to use it for score until you get good enough to play the harder settings (if you want).

Would be sorta cool if Adept gave bigger immortality bonus or something.

Trying to get 40k-50k spirits with Fossil Maiden(SOL) right now, pretty fun

[RNGmaster]

@OVB: I'm pretty sure CaptainRansom does play Hellsinker. Lay off him and stop acting so childish. If anything you're the one causing drama by reacting to an innocent, logical question like this.

@Zaarock: Hellsinker scoring is apparently really stupid (or at least that's what a hell of a lot of serious shmup players here say) but I totally agree that it's fun as hell. Pumping enemy value is hella rewarding.

I suppose that using 5 lives instead of six could be considered non-default settings, but it increases the risk when you fail. I don't see a problem with it, since what is and isn't a "default setting" in HS is kind of fuzzy. Anyone who's seriously scoreplaying isn't going to pass up the extra point bonus from Drastic since it comes in handy quite a bit.

All the same, I see how it is perhaps unwise to bundle it in with Moderate scores. Same with Adept vs. Solidstate/Aspirant though honestly that's not as substantive a difference - remember autobombing is as bad for score as dying, so an Adept clear will probably have higher enemy value than an equivalent Solidstate clear.

I'll try to divide the boards by either bootleg ghost or max lives setting but I think doing both would be really inefficient and a pain to browse. Which do you people think would make more sense?