DoDonPachi (New Thread #4)

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:09 am

Ravid : Yeah, mediafire is guaranteed to last until the person who uploaded the files wants them removed.

ptoing · Post by **ptoing** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:07 am

ptoing, 42'755'080, C-S, 1-6, 214

Grrrr

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:56 pm

I did the same thing with C-S and finally got a really nice run. It took a lot more tries to get something as good score-wise, but it's a lot better survival-wise : no miss in loop 1 with 80M (used a couple of bombs), first miss in 2-3, got to Hibachi.

Here's the score :
PROMETHEUS - 144'545'270 - C-S - 2-7 - 395
Replay recorded with wolfmameplus99, Japanese Dodonpachi.

It's a very DoDge HeaVy run, since I was just improvising my way through with a ship that doesn't adapt to A-L routes at all. I think it took me 10 or 15 tries to get this with C-S, compared to 3 tries to get that 148M with B-L. Anyway, a lot of really nice action in there, with last-second bombs and nearly no waste of bombs. Ends after a couple of really nice dodges at Hibachi.

BR1, you beat me twice !

ptoing · Post by **ptoing** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:26 pm

Have to take a look at that at some point when I have more time.
Is there any difference gameplaywise between the japanese and the international version btw?
They both are set to Rank B and ext at 6+20mil. so I reckon they are the same unless Cave fiddled with it a bit, which I doubt (and hope not)

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:59 am

I've actually been meaning to fiddle with the international version, just to find out what that dude says at the end of the first loop =)

One of these runs I'm going to shatter my 2-3 score, but it's going to be a 1-6 score, and I'm not sure how I'll feel about it. I'll be like "WOO! HIGHER SCORE YAY!" But also like "Awww, I didn't even make it to loop 2, what the hell is wrong with me? Sad."

Edit: Or... It'll be another 2-3 run =D

RWM - 110,883,290 - A-L - 2-3 - 609

http://www.mediafire.com/?ymlzdlnectg

I FINALLY BROKE 100M FUCK YEAH! And now I know I can do so much better. You can tell how nervous I get in stage 1-6 by the way my ship moves... So indecisive and erratic. Also the needless panic bomb on the stage 5 boss. I like went cross-eyed and couldn't see where I needed to go so bombs away =) Also, can we say CHOKE on the 6th boss?

There's my dosage of adrenaline for the month... Now to go get some more ^_^ Maybe it's time to start practicing the second loop at least a little bit so that when I get these good first loop runs I can at least chain stage 2, and maybe get through the bullet cancel part of stage 3... At the very least. I did have some pretty badass wing-it dodging in stage 2-2 though, if I may toot my own horn a bit. And only one of them was luck =D Guess which? (For those who bother to watch the replay).

One last thing, directed at Prometheus... I think that this run is a VERY good indicator of my usual problems with the hard part of 1-5. I bombed... twice was it? I didn't die, but I got cornered in a very me-like fashion. What was it I did wrong, exactly?

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:04 am

I tried making a savestate a little before you die to see what the situation is like. I noticed it got quite a bit messier than it does in my runs but couldn't see exactly why, then I tried to do the whole level by myself to see the difference, and it's as I suspected just a question of bad timing :

Just before or around the time that second big building thing that shoots appears, you should be moving to the right, and nearly to the top. Then, you're supposed to move to the left again with laser, killing the line of tank and passing in front of that building in such a way that when it shoots, it shoots in that direction like in the K.O. video or my replays :

The green arrow is the right angle, black arrow is your angle. What this means is not that the bullets it shoots are going to bother you any more than they bother me or K.O, but that you're just moving to the left too late, and because of that you're waiting long enough for the couple of dangerous enemies that spawn to the right to spawn and start shooting BEFORE you're well away to the left so as to herd their bullets away from the center and into the left border. So your center area becomes a target for those enemies while you're moving to the left, and the bullets bother the hell out of you when trying to move back again to the right just after.

Now, that's just significantly harder to do that way, not impossible. With good accuracy and recognition of bullet trajectories you can definitely still make it out of that mess. But you'll just miss more often.

Anyway, nice skills there, you have some good accuracy and abilities. You can definitely make 200M with work on stage 5 and 6 routes. What controller are you using ? Also I noticed you were not using bombs enough when in danger after you lose your first life. That's not good, it's an important skill to master. See my C-S replay for a lot of good bomb usage for instance.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:53 am

So I'm going too far to the side? For some reason I thought that was necessary for herding the bullets coming from the flying popcorn on the opposite side, but thinking about it, I suppose it wouldn't make all that much of a difference in where their bullets go. Ima go experiment with that =)

I did notice (very recently) that I wasn't taking out the tank line the way I was supposed to, but I haven't changed my positioning, I just pause for a moment on my way to the other side before continuing. Which, still causes the problems with the popcorn spawning from where I was just at and me not being far enough away from them yet, so they spray a neat little wave of junk from about center screen to my position =P

PROMETHEUS wrote:Now, that's just significantly harder to do that way, not impossible. With good accuracy and recognition of bullet trajectories you can definitely still make it out of that mess. But you'll just miss more often.

Right you are. I DO make it through... Just... not very often =P Especially since I'll often have to slip through two or three of those kinds of messes doing it my way. Sometimes I'll make it through one twisted mess, just to die by another.

PROMETHEUS wrote:What controller are you using ?

I used to use a PS2 pad through a USB adapter, but recently switched to a USB Saturn pad. There's just ONE small problem with it. Every once in a while a direction button will stick (on both the pads I got). The worst was during a really good run, at the stage 5 boss, I was up in the safespot while he was firing the explosive missiles, just tapping along with the boss, then on one of the taps I just kept going and ran right into the boss >_< I don't want to go back to the PS2 pad, but... These Saturn pads have issues too... argh. I'm hoping that somehow they'll get broken in and stop sticking randomly.

Also I noticed you were not using bomb enough when in danger after you lose your first life.

I generally don't think about it. It WOULD help immensely. The biggest problem, however, is overconfidence and/or apathy after having already died once. I find myself thinking "Meh, I can slip through that, and I've already died, so what difference does another make?" I don't always slip through though -_^ Also sometimes I'm just trying too hard to preserve my chain, rather than my life. Considering how tied together they are, perhaps I should just let one bomb per life loose.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:53 am

ptoing wrote:Have to take a look at that at some point when I have more time.
Is there any difference gameplaywise between the japanese and the international version btw?
They both are set to Rank B and ext at 6+20mil. so I reckon they are the same unless Cave fiddled with it a bit, which I doubt (and hope not)

They're identical except for the text.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:03 am

Arvandor wrote:So I'm going too far to the side? For some reason I thought that was necessary for herding the bullets coming from the flying popcorn on the opposite side, but thinking about it, I suppose it wouldn't make all that much of a difference in where their bullets go, just how soon they reach you =P

No, you're not going too far to the side, but you reach that side too late, you're supposed to move there much earlier after you take out the last medium sized blue tank. See K.O video !

Arvandor wrote:I used to use a PS2 pad through a USB adapter, but recently switched to a USB Saturn pad. There's just ONE small problem with it. Every once in a while a direction button will stick (on both the pads I got). The worst was during a really good run, at the stage 5 boss, I was up in the safespot while he was firing the explosive missiles, just tapping along with the boss, then on one of the taps I just kept going and ran right into the boss >_< I don't want to go back to the PS2 pad, but... These Saturn pads have issues too... argh. I'm hoping that somehow they'll get broken in and stop sticking randomly

InTeReSTinG, I thought while watching your replay that I'd be surprised if you were playing with a joystick, because like me you're changing directions too accurately and fast for it to be done with a stick. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced sticks kind of suck compared to pads and keyboards lol -_-
MMM's Ketsui is done with a pad, the best Ikaruga occidental scores are done with a pad, the best dodonpachi/guwange is keyboard... I really wouldn't be surprised if we found the playtime for someone playing with a stick is a lot more than someone playing with a pad or keyboard for the same achievement.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:37 am

I know it's been argued to death, but I'll always be of the opinion that d-pad > joystick for movement.

As someone who started out playing Guilty Gear XX on a controller, got up to a competative level, THEN switched to arcade stick, and got BACK to a competative level (and far exceeded what I was at witha pad), I can tell you from experience that d-pad > joystick for movement. However... Joystick still > Controller for fighting games =P

But since movement > button presses in shooters, the controller is the superior option (anyone who says otherwise is either, close-minded, in denial, or is too afraid of not being able to play in an actual arcade environment). I have no personal experience with keyboards, but I've seen some Guilty Gear and Melty Blood players do impressive things with the keyboard (in a freaking fighting game!), and then of course there's you =P

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:22 pm

First, big props to PROM for your score with A-L thats damn impressive.

this is slightly o/t but still:

Arvandor: I got one of these saturn pads and I've managed to fix that sticking problem. I simply inserted a bit of black tape on the side of the pad (by unscrewing it) this way it doesnt close as tightly as it did before and I havnt seen any more sticking (yet).

As for the pad/keyboard vs stick. Ive played with some of the best sticks on the market (seimitsu/sanwa) for almost 2 years and with psx and saturn pads. And I have to say in the end it depends on how used you are to your controller and which game you are playing.

For example Im better at touhou games with my saturn pad (maybe not by much though) these games require mostly very precise movement.

Sticks on the other hand seem to be better for games which require twitch dodging or very complex movement chains (fast and complex patterns). I would say the stick is better at doing exactly what my brain wants it to do. But has a bigger "minimal movement".

In the end both are good, depends on the game and on the player.

Ravid · Post by **Ravid** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:38 pm

Updated. Well done to Arvandor and ptoing for good improvements. Also Prometheus for generally being awesome as usual.

Fu: Please post a replay. If you don't have a replay of that run, a replay of a run in the same ball-park will do (i.e. 90mil+/reaching 2-4/etc., use common sense). If you're not using MAME, the same applies to screenshots. I ask because you're a new entry to the table who scores high, no offense.

edit: something like this this will do

Ravid - 93,704,350 - B-L - 2-3 - 561

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:56 pm

nimitz wrote:Sticks on the other hand seem to be better for games which require twitch dodging or very complex movement chains (fast and complex patterns). I would say the stick is better at doing exactly what my brain wants it to do. But has a bigger "minimal movement".

The first part sounds completely dependent on how used the player is to the controller, while the second part is an actual absolute difference which kills the stick compared to the other controllers imo. So I don't think sticks are any better for twitch dodging, rather weaker.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:06 pm

I have never understood why people downplay the keyboard. With the right technique, you can switch directions instantaneously, and there is never even the remotest doubt that you are pressing the wrong direction.

Not so with sticks or pads. That being said, I play with a stick because I have a lot more fun that way

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:30 pm

captpain wrote:Not so with sticks or pads. That being said, I play with a stick because I have a lot more fun that way :P

Yes, I think that's the main valid reason for choosing sticks over keyboards or pads, I reckon they have this kind of "fun sensation" factor along with playing on an actual arcade cabinet. Although I don't really care for that at all myself.

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:39 pm

It's also that sticks are far more natural and intuitive than a keyboard. To make a quick and precise circling motion with a stick, you gently rotate it around its base. With a keyboard, however…

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:44 pm

It's a matter of preference, really. I play FAR better on the keyboard than I ever could on a stick or pad.

Ravid · Post by **Ravid** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:16 pm

Updated. Sorry Krobin.

Ravid - 99,835,840 - B-L - 2-4 - 466 - replay

There, that's the last for a while I think (play, not update

)

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:04 pm

you posted the wrong replay, this one is 89,113,870 - 2-2 :p

Ravid · Post by **Ravid** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:37 pm

PROMETHEUS wrote:you posted the wrong replay, this one is 89,113,870 - 2-2 :p

The replay contains two runs

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:39 pm

Ravid wrote:
PROMETHEUS wrote:you posted the wrong replay, this one is 89,113,870 - 2-2 :p
The replay contains two runs :wink:

.. I was just owned by Ravid ^^

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:09 pm

I just had a nice run and no missed to 2-6 for the first time. Unfortunately, I bombed once at the 2-3 boss, once in the beginning of 2-5 and another time in the middle of 2-5, and also didn't do so well at all in 2-6, so I didn't beat my score.

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:24 pm

It's great to see you playing a bit again. Congrats on that No Miss archievement

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:24 pm

thx. Been doing some runs since the last 10 days or so. This is less painful since I found out I was playing at 104% speed, I get almost 50% success in loop 1 instead of 30%.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:30 pm

d'oh! I no missed until 2-6 boss just now. Still didn't beat my score lol >.< Sucked big time at Hibachi, and loop1 score was low.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:23 am

I had 100M going into stage 6, but I died twice REALLY stupidly on the 5th boss, which ruined me for stage 6, as I was only half-caring =/

Shalnn · Post by **Shalnn** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:09 am

Shalnn - 44,498,300 - A-L - 2-2 - 301

Well, it's been more than 2 years since I last posted here. Recently, I had the chance to spot one DDP at a local arcade, along with Ibara, and that was enough to get me back into the game

Ravid · Post by **Ravid** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:38 am

Updated, sorry msm. That's quite a re-entry Shalnn

LtC · Post by **LtC** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:45 pm

I just recently got started with this game and I've been playing it on MAME. I can only make it to the beginning of stage 6 so far and I'm not really setting records yet but I do have couple questions if I'm allowed to ask:

Extra extends:
I've gotten twice an extra 1up during stage 3 and for the first time I thought I was just hallucinating but now I got it the second time from the bridge of the big ship near the end of stage 3. Does it work somehow like getting Hypers in dai-ou-jou where you get them from combos, keeping combo meter with laser and bee icons?
Only special I remember doing back then was trying to do that part with laser only.

Bosses:
I've noticed the bosses use different attacks/patterns, specially stage 2 and stage 3 bosses. Is it completely random or can it be manipulated? I'd rather have the second boss use the mass blue bullets attack and third boss not create walls of blue bullets.
I play on the red ship swapping randomly between shot and laser type if that matters.

Pads:
I'm a person who's always played with keyboard and I've considered on getting the saturn pad. Are there others here who've played with keyboard for a long time and successfully gotten used to pads? What I'm personally worried is if I'd ever get used to switching the movement control from right to left hand.

And one last thing I want to confirm is the slowdown that happens with lots of bullets and/or enemies on screen. I spent an hour or so trying to config MAME settings over and over because of this until I realized it's most likely an implemented thing but I just want to be sure about this so I won't be losing my sleep because of it anymore...

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:01 pm

1. 1up only appears if you destroy all the yellow containers at the sides of the big ship before blowing up the central where the item is contained.

2. Bosses can be manipulated to an extent, but more often than not they just cycle their attacks until you deal a certain amount of damage, after which they change modes. A thing to note here would be destroying the destructible parts first, before moving on to the core. Then the boss will start its "angry" attack, which is very hard to avoid. I think this came back from the Toaplan days.

3. I play with a keyboard, PROMETHEUS also uses a keyboard. No big deal. I actually prefer it to PS2 and X360 pads.

4. Slowdown in places like stage 3 spam waves is intentional, mainly because DDP's bullet count puts a considerable toll on its hardware: so it just can't process everything at the default rate. Not MAME or your computer's fault.