Shmups that are ahead of their time

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:56 pm

Have you played an older shump that just amazed you at how well done it is for the time it came out? The original Zanac (all versions) is very amazing IMO. It has a ranking system, 8 upgradable secondary weapons, an upgradable main weapon, tons of bells and whistles, and excellent gameplay. What older shmups have you played that you feel are ahead of their time?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:26 pm

In a sense I thought that BioMetal was ahead of its time, just in the sense of how manic the bugger was...no shmup I can think of off the top of my head from that time period had quite so many bullets onscreen as that thing did. As for the game itself...well, that's a different story, but for that aspect of it alone I'd mention it.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:04 pm

MUSHA was and is impossibly great. personally i have not been playing it since release (only known about it since 1999), but even when surrounded by my saturn, ps2, and so on, my genesis is still plugged in for this (and others). that canyon level by the way, anyone know how many paralax layers are in that?

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:07 pm

I'd say Recca on NES. I am not sure what year was that game released... 91, 92? But I think it shows a little of what the shmup genre would become later.

I also think that Starblazer, an MSX shmup from 1982 (Which is reviewed here in this site by me... or at least it was in the older site) was in a way ahead of its time.

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:08 pm

xevious, salamander, truxton, dodonpachi.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:37 pm

It seems to me that perhaps the cutesy take on the shooter genre didn't really take off until the 32-bit era. If that's right, then Fantasy Zone seems to have been ahead of its time in a way.

Tony Gradius · Post by **Tony Gradius** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:48 pm

Ever heard of Parodius?

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:52 pm

Tony Gradius wrote:Ever heard of Parodius?

Yes, I have. But I wasn't sure how far it goes back. When did the first Parodius come out? All I ever see available for purchase are Parodius games on later systems.

Strychnine · Post by **Strychnine** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:54 pm

Pardon. But does not the phrase "ahead of its time" usually connote that the item in question is typically not well received, but then later appreciated?

Post by **Ghegs** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:57 pm

professor ganson wrote:When did the first Parodius come out? All I ever see available for purchase are Parodius games on later systems.

Very first Parodius came out for MSX in 1988. More info.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:07 pm

OK, well in that case Fantasy Zone was the earliest cutesy shooter I can think of, as it came out in '86.

Thanks for the link: that's a very cool page devoted to Parodius!

alpha5099 · Post by **alpha5099** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:09 pm

Before I played Salamander, I was pretty much convinced that I didn't like the old shmups from the mid-80s. And then for a while I was convinced that Salamander was the exception. Now I'm starting to enjoy some older shmups, although I tend to prefer to early-to-mid 90s immediately pre-manic days.

dboeren · Post by **dboeren** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:18 pm

Pardon. But does not the phrase "ahead of its time" usually connote that the item in question is typically not well received, but then later appreciated?

Usually it does when applied to cultural phenomina like music, or to people (a director, composer, etc...) But since videogames are so technology-dependent I think it can also apply to a game that pushed the technology envelope to such an extend that its competitors did not catch up for some time. Xexex might be a good example, with graphical special effects that were very advanced for its day. I think a parallel can be seen here to the phrase as applied to a thinker such as a mathematician, scientist, or philosopher. He is "ahead of his time" if his thinking uses principles that were not accepted into the mainstream until significantly later.

However, next-generation graphics don't really go unappreciated in their time. Next-gen gameplay mechanics might. Imagine if in the late 80's someone played a primitive version of Dodonpachi. Might they not look at the huge clouds of slow bullets and dislike the idea? The players just wouldn't have been ready for it at that time I think. So, it's interesting how the phrase applies to a game like Batsugun, which pretty much started the manic shmup trend.

Galaxius · Post by **Galaxius** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:34 pm

Although it borrowed from R-Type, I'd say XEXEX. The look, at least, was quite good for its time.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:14 pm

Thunder Force III for the spazzy visual style and fluid controls.

Post by **system11** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:20 pm

Some people will almost certainly disagree - I'm going to nominate Tempest, for being the first shmup with truly manic gameplay (and the first colour vector game), and -potentially- the first appearance of a smart bomb.

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:55 pm

bloodflowers wrote:Some people will almost certainly disagree - I'm going to nominate Tempest, for being the first shmup with truly manic gameplay (and the first colour vector game), and -potentially- the first appearance of a smart bomb.

I think Defender had a smart bomb way eariler.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:07 am

Andi wrote:
bloodflowers wrote:Some people will almost certainly disagree - I'm going to nominate Tempest, for being the first shmup with truly manic gameplay (and the first colour vector game), and -potentially- the first appearance of a smart bomb.
I think Defender had a smart bomb way eariler.

Nope, both Tempest and Defender actually came out around the same time. KLOV lists both games as coming out in 1980.

Post by **system11** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:08 am

Andi wrote:
bloodflowers wrote:Some people will almost certainly disagree - I'm going to nominate Tempest, for being the first shmup with truly manic gameplay (and the first colour vector game), and -potentially- the first appearance of a smart bomb.
I think Defender had a smart bomb way eariler.

You might be right there - I'd forgotten about the bomb in that (not that I could ever reach the button in time in the arcade anyway). Both are 1980, I don't know which was the first.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:54 am

Batsugun was the first true manic wasn't it?

Started the modern shooters if it was. Not sure if it was appreciated in its time though.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:18 am

freddiebamboo wrote:Batsugun was the first true manic wasn't it?

Started the modern shooters if it was. Not sure if it was appreciated in its time though.

Didn't Grindstormer/V5 come out before Batsugun? I think Compile kind of invented the maniac, or at least inspired it IMO. They had some of the first games with a special mode where bullets come out when you shoot at enemies. Didn't Gun Nac do this?

Kiel · Post by **Kiel** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:37 am

BulletMagnet wrote:In a sense I thought that BioMetal was ahead of its time, just in the sense of how manic the bugger was...no shmup I can think of off the top of my head from that time period had quite so many bullets onscreen as that thing did. As for the game itself...well, that's a different story, but for that aspect of it alone I'd mention it.

Good man, when I saw this topic I knew it would have to be Biometal.

VERY good graphics for its time too.

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:01 pm

Robotron and Fantasy Zone were the first with the really manic bullet counts. Batsugun was obviously very influential, but I'm not sure if I'd say it's the first manic. What was the first shmup to have the really tiny hit box?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:04 pm

Kiel wrote:VERY good graphics for its time too.

...and absolutely awful music in any era.

Frogacuda wrote:What was the first shmup to have the really tiny hit box?

I guess that depends on how you define "really tiny," but I know Batsugun's "special version" had a pretty small one...that was when, 1993? Not sure what before that might qualify...

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:59 pm

What was the first shmup to have the really tiny hit box?

I don´t know how large Dodonpachi´s hitzone is, but it sure is smaller than Donpachi´s or Batsugun´s. I know for a fact that Mars Matrix, Psyvariar and Daioujou each have a 1pixel-hituone.

tehkao · Post by **tehkao** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:19 pm

Gorf
Vanguard
Zanac
Forgotten Worlds
Bosconian

stoneroses · Post by **stoneroses** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:29 am

I picked up Axelay just a few years ago and was blown away at the playability and overall polish of this Konami title. The heavy use of Mode 7 gives it that 3D punch that helps it age so well.

I wish that I could have played it when it first came out as the true nature of its signifigance would have been realized even better. I would love to see a modern-day remake.

zimeon · Post by **zimeon** » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:14 pm

Armalyte för the C64 did get a bad review on shmups.com, but I am on of the ones who really liked it. And thinking back, I think is was quite before its time: There was instant respawn which I had never before seen in a shmup from that time, and quite an amazing arsenal of shots, including sideways and backways. And on top of that an interesting super weapon system including batteries that stored super weapon energy, and chargers that made the energy charge faster. There was 3 superweapons to choose from, and you could change them in-game.

And most of all: it was no 1-life-system. meaning you actually kept your power-ups when you died. Which I hadn't seen before either.

I can't be sure though, maybe all these idead came from games I don't kno about. Armalyte was released 1988.