The Cave fund

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:05 pm

Imagine you were a multi-millionaire. In US currency, let's say. And just so you happened to also be a Cave fan. I mean, you might say that multi-millionaires are old, short, fat, bald people that would never play a manic shooter, but what if you were a relatively young person--late 20's let's say--who had just inherited your late father's fortune?

I know at least two people like that, and one who is on his way to such a future.

So you have 156 million in the bank and never need to work for the rest of your life.

But you love shmups, you are a great fan of Cave's work, and you one day hear news that the company might be going out of the shooting game business. They would be focusing on mahjong and medal games instead. No more 2D shooters from them--that's it, the end of an era. Nothing else to see here folks.

Would you consider donating 1 or 2 million of your money to them to keep making them? I mean, what is 1 or 2 million out of 156?

You might even be able to convince a friend of yours, who is similarly wealthy and who has caught the Cave bug from you, to donate another million or so.

Hell, if you did that, you would possibly even be able to influence the kinds of games that get made (within reason of course, because a great artist is no one's bitch). Guwange 2? (after acquiring the licence from Atlus, or whoever holds it). Ketsui 2?

Would you do it?

(I have a reason for asking this, which will be revealed later. So please take the time to answer.)

JigsawMan · Post by **JigsawMan** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:15 pm

I'd love to have enough 'spare' money to spend on 'projects.' And supporting cave would be at the top of the list. I'd love to sponsor either a new game or a port to one of the consoles by paying for all development costs and then get my name at the top of the credits. Unfortunately I am stuck in a society where you have to have money to make money and whilst I do OK, I am never going to be a millionaire (unless inflation goes crazy bad).

mice · Post by **mice** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:16 pm

I would open up a small firm; hiring a few gfx artists, a designer and a few coders and start creating shmups by myself.
Would cost you, like max $10M, for a few years of intense fun.

Mmmmm, dreaming away...

Voted NO, btw. Since it would hardly help them in the long run.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:19 pm

Only your games would suck compared to theirs. It takes talent and experience built over decades to be as good as they are, and even if you had the first you would most definitely lack the second.

The "long run" comment is valid though. I am thinking up a response to that.

(My preliminary response is that the "long run" is not everything. In the long run everything ends, no matter how good.

In the meantime, even one new Cave game is one more Cave game we would not otherwise have had.)

mice · Post by **mice** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:32 pm

icycalm wrote: Only your games would suck compared to theirs.

The first two or three years maybe, but then...

Really depends on the people you get into the projects. But you have to admit, it would be fun, wouldn't it?

icycalm wrote: ...is that the "long run" is not everything...

True. If I were Cave I wouldn't accept the donation, that is more what I ment. If they can't make the genre profitible, releasing one more game will only delay their new pursuit for gold (mahjong and medal games).

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:50 pm

mice wrote:
icycalm wrote: Only your games would suck compared to theirs.
The first two or three years maybe, but then...
Really depends on the people you get into the projects. But you have to admit, it would be fun, wouldn't it?

It would be fun... if you prefer developing games to playing them (and I can see you do from your signature.)

But, seriously, no one can touch these guys. Look at Skonec. They've been making manic shooters for several years now, and they are certainly improving, but they are nowhere near Cave. The only way to top Cave would be to hire their shmup people to work for you.

Fighter17 · Post by **Fighter17** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:02 pm

My dream was to open up a publishing firm that publish games on the three major gaming systems. The publishing firm will specialize in ninch gaming (shmups, some RPGS, weird games, emulation efforts, etc.), and also I would try to get the rights to publish a couple of shmups here in the US (Border Down, Under Defeat). The company would be similar to Working Designs, but it'll be different for one it'll be a bigger company, two we'll release more games per year than Working Designs, three no gameplay changes will be made. When my company is trying to translate a RPG, of course we'll hire the best translators around, good voice actors, etc.

The name of my new company, well I actally want to call it Tengen since the old Tengen just petty much port arcade games onto different hardware (but of course we don't want to try to break copyright laws again with Tengen Tetris

). The New Tengen will continue to do the same thing, but also publish other type of games as well.

I can dream whatever I want.

Middlemoor · Post by **Middlemoor** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:04 pm

Simplistically speaking, i'd donate the money.

Realistically speaking, $1 million dollars is a lot of money to give to a game developer, unless you're a huge fan. There's a large social responsibility on the shoulders of a person who's inherited that kinda dough.

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:09 pm

I would hire CAVE to hire PSIKYO to make Gunbird 3.

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:09 pm

i wont give them any money at all. ill just buy dedicated cabs for each cave shmup with full KITS. and that'll be all...and i would make a bowling alley inside my mansion..like that movie , King Pin.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:28 pm

I bet the ending to this thread will be disappointing

Post by **system11** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:29 pm

I'd buy their company.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:36 pm

bloodflowers wrote:I'd buy their company.

Winner!

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:43 pm

If i had that kind of money i would do two things

1. Bring back Diehard Gamefan (with Wolfie and hopefully E.Storm

) but have it as a retro focused magazine.

2. Stop that Castlevania movie. Somehow. Probably with a hired gun.

But i voted yes, because i like that idea. Be nice to have some old Toaplan properties get updates as well.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:00 pm

Twiddle wrote:I bet the ending to this thread will be disappointing

If you expect me to somehow save the 2D shump genre from extinction with nothing more than a lazy thread in a niche forum, then yes, the ending to this thread will be disappointing to you.

Besides, most anyone should be able to deduce my intent--and hence the ending to this thread--by reading the title.

circuitface wrote:2. Stop that Castlevania movie. Somehow. Probably with a hired gun.

LMAO

D · Post by D » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:08 pm

icycalm, you didn't get one of those spoofing e-mails right?
I'm in jail right now, but if you send me $10.000 I will share my uncle trust fnd with you, 5 mil a pop.
If you did go ahead with the deal, because it is I that will receive the funds and I will buy Cave stock and own 1% of the company

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:20 pm

icycalm wrote:
Twiddle wrote:I bet the ending to this thread will be disappointing
If you expect me to somehow save the 2D shump genre from extinction with nothing more than a lazy thread in a niche forum, then yes, the ending to this thread will be disappointing to you.

Besides, most anyone should be able to deduce my intent--and hence the ending to this thread--by reading the title.

basically i've read my fair share of funny hypothetical threads

but man holy shit D

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:32 pm

CAVE is awesome, but they arn't the be all end all. Skilled Artists and Programmers are plenty (and CAVE hires freelance artists anyway). You just need a good idea and have the puzzle fit together. That is what IKD does well...but it is silly to forget others, like the guys at PSYIKO, Yagawa, or the man I would put my money on, Hiroshi Iuchi.

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 3:35 pm

If I had the kind of cash where I could blow a few million by hiring a game company to make me my own game, I think my morals would have to step in and make sure that money goes towards something worthwhile like funding undoing racism trainings or sending a few hundred kids to college.

But that's a lame answer, so:

Another vote for Gunbird 3.

Plus Ketsui 2, only every boss is DOOM and there's 20 levels and only me and WIZ can play and he'll tutor me and I'll make a high score thread and laugh away as I post shitty scores and still be the best.

the2bears · Post by **the2bears** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:02 pm

Middlemoor wrote:Simplistically speaking, i'd donate the money.

Realistically speaking, $1 million dollars is a lot of money to give to a game developer, unless you're a huge fan. There's a large social responsibility on the shoulders of a person who's inherited that kinda dough.

Nicely said. However, if you looked at the million "as an investment in shmups" then consider that you're giving people jobs and creating something - both good for the economy.

I don't like the idea of giving Cave the money. That might be interpreted as an insult. "Invest" in them might be a better spin on it. And donate profits to a charity

Bill

Post by **Icarus** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:30 pm

I would hire CAVE to hire RAIZING to make... oh wait...

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:37 pm

... a PROPER Ibara sequel!

DEL · Post by **DEL** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:22 pm

icycalm wrote;

Would you consider donating 1 or 2 million of your money to them to keep making them? I mean, what is 1 or 2 million out of 156?

Here's a real life example of when a millionaire did this type of thing;
A couple of years ago, John Sturges (Owner of Electrocoin) told me how a nostalgic millionaire he knew had recently put 3mil of his own money into keeping SNK alive. A few months later, SNK went down and the guy's 3 million vanished into thin air with absolutely nothing to show for it.

On the subject of Cave; yeah yeah I'd love to see the same basic game pumped out a few more times.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:33 pm

Valgar wrote:CAVE is awesome, but they arn't the be all end all. Skilled Artists and Programmers are plenty (and CAVE hires freelance artists anyway). You just need a good idea and have the puzzle fit together. That is what IKD does well...but it is silly to forget others, like the guys at PSYIKO, Yagawa, or the man I would put my money on, Hiroshi Iuchi.

The only problem is that Psikyo doesn't make shooters any more, Yagawa works for Cave, and as for Iuchi... Treasure doesn't need donations. They are doing just as fine as they are.

And DEL, good point.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:42 pm

They are a publicly traded firm. You can look up their symbol and see how much it would run you, but I don't think 1 or 2 million is going to cut it. They also post thei costs, assets, etc. in those financial reports.

rib · Post by **rib** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:12 pm

if i had that money i would put together a team of the best shmup creators to create the best shmup ever, the shmup of my fantasies.

if ever for example cave stops making shmups there will be a reason, and that reason will be most likelly that they run out of ideas.

Cers · Post by **Cers** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:39 pm

1. Buy DoDonPachi Campain (a piece of cake with 156mio $ )
2. Send it to Guru for dumping
3. Send the roms to the Mame-Team
4. Finally, all people can play that damn game....

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:48 pm

icycalm wrote: But you love shmups, you are a great fan of Cave's work, and you one day hear news that the company might be going out of the shooting game business.

BOOHOO!

I'd fund every other shooting game company with every last cent just to make Cave fans cry. And then run Cave out of the vending machine business.

eretsua · Post by **eretsua** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:06 pm

i voted "yes". i'm not too concerned with that it isn't good / effective in the long run. i rather view it as subsidizing art, because i think cave shooters are a form of art.

seriously though, i rather give some talented people who (hopefully) enjoy making shooters the opportunity to do what they do then that i stick to all my precious coins.

though rather than making a one time donation i would buy the company and in this way secure funds for future projects*. i would, however, completely stay out of their creative way. it's up to them to make what they want to make. but i would love to free them from financial obligation that seemingly forces them to make mahjong and medal games.

* and should, despite my investment, the company go bankrupt then that would be okay. it's not like really had the money before i inherited and it's not like i worked for it.

ps. are you going to reveal the reason for asking sometime soon? i'm kind of curious.

MadSteelDarkness · Post by **MadSteelDarkness** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:11 pm

bloodflowers wrote:I'd buy their company.

Totally beat me to it.

Donate? Pffft. If I'm ponying up millions, those fuckers are working for me.

shmups.system11.org

The Cave fund

?

The Cave fund

Yes they are highly playable BUT................

Re: The Cave fund