Taito Legends 2

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:33 pm

So in fact G-Darius on Taito Legends 2 may be the DEFINITIVE version (better than arcade) because it isn't FULL OF SLOWDOWN

???

BBH · Post by **BBH** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:00 pm

hate to do a cheap plug like this, but I finally updated my website with an article on Bust-a-Move Again, which should hopefully better explain why the version on Taito Legends 2 has such fucked-up music.

http://bbh.marpirc.net/bamagain

TKGB_Mental_Gear · Post by **TKGB_Mental_Gear** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:32 pm

Well I just discovered something that could be a glitch or bad emulation or something.

My bro was playing Puchi Caratin Player vs. Com mode. He was around the 10th level or something. He was about to lose so he kept struggling to win but in the end, both the player and the comp lose, making it a tie. Suddenly the game froze. I don't just mean the game emulated but the entire compilation disk froze my bro's PS2.

I don't know if this is because of emulation or Taito forgot to reprogram this.

tekneekz · Post by **tekneekz** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:26 pm

i wish darius gaiden had auto fire... its a must..

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:18 pm

TKGB_Mental_Gear wrote:Well I just discovered something that could be a glitch or bad emulation or something.

My bro was playing Puchi Caratin Player vs. Com mode. He was around the 10th level or something. He was about to lose so he kept struggling to win but in the end, both the player and the comp lose, making it a tie. Suddenly the game froze. I don't just mean the game emulated but the entire compilation disk froze my bro's PS2.

I don't know if this is because of emulation or Taito forgot to reprogram this.

I'm guessing it's an emulation glitch. One time, when I played Growl, garbage appeared at the high score screen after I put in my initials. I didn't mention it before because it's very minor and doesn't affect game play, but it is there.

Veracity · Post by **Veracity** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:01 pm

tekneekz wrote:I wish Darius Gaiden had auto fire... its a must..

Bah! No, it isn't. The default button-held behaviour reasonably approximates a sustainable mashing rate, though you can admittedly go faster in short bursts. The shot per frame rate that seems to be a lot of people's preferred approach feels broken to me, and I'm no autofire purist. Mind you, I've also never been further than zone P, and even getting there took all my bombs; maybe there's a connection.

I don't think it's entirely reasonable complaining of the absence of ease-of-use hacks from an emulated compilation - controllers with hardware autofire aren't hard to come by for console or PC, and on PC you can simulate it with xpadder or by running in a MAME variant with internal autofire support instead of through the front end the compilation installs. The already much-bemoaned incorrect speed of Darius Gaiden on the PS2 release is pretty dire, though - imo, they should've dropped it from that release and found some other platform exclusive for the PS2 that it could emulate without mangling it.

tekneekz · Post by **tekneekz** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:26 pm

i have to use my joystick with turbo on to get the same rate of fire i see on the arcade version videos and the super play videos on them. G darius is fine with controllers tho cause they have a auto fire option

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:59 am

Darius Gaiden has two different arcade versions, one w/ autofire (rediculously fast) and one with reaaallyyy slooooww autofire.

tekneekz · Post by **tekneekz** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:13 am

i guess the taito legends 2 version of darius gaiden i have is the slow one :/... i need to use my hrap for the turbo lol

Krimzon Kitzune · Post by **Krimzon Kitzune** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:20 am

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:18 pm

I noticed some slowdown in Gekiridan. It's hard to compare sometimes since arcade games often have slowdown too, but I feel it's probably a safe bet in this case that some of it isn't in the arcade. The problems in Bust-A-Move Again were listed in earlier posts. They used an earlier ROM version and probably didn't even test it. As said before, Elevator Action Returns definitely has slowdown not in the original.

Krimzon Kitzune · Post by **Krimzon Kitzune** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:56 pm

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:44 pm

I heard that the collection may actually be using a variant of MAME, so I'm guessing the speed probably isn't accurate.

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:17 am

just bought this for 13 bucks SEALED at gamestop for ps2 today..it is one of the best collection ever!!!!

Veracity · Post by **Veracity** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:29 am

Samurai Fox wrote:It's playable to say the least, but it still pisses me off that the game isn't exactly arcade-perfect in terms of framerate. I guess I'll just have to MAME it whenever I get a better graphics card to play without slowdowns. I'm still baffled about how the F3 games suffer when G Darius and Raystorm play perfectly.

Someone may be able to point to definitive information, but the obvious assumption is that G-Darius and Raystorm are not using MAME-esque emulation, but are the PSX ports hacked to behave more like the arcade versions regarding front end and options. They were on PSX-like arcade hardware, anyway, so I guess it's also possible that the PS2's backward compatibility made a fairly direct new arcade port painless enough to be worth doing.

Everything else is being emulated, I think I read (possibly elsewhere in this thread, even) by some kind of MAME variant, though I don't recall whether that applies only to the western releases or also to the Memories compilations whose content overlaps Legends. This is far more load-intensive, so could account for issues with some F3 games. Some of the speed problems (and possibly the Metal Black beam, though I don't know how that's supposed to work) might just indicate the PS2 being incapable of full-speed emulation, since they seem to be unique to that version, or they could be effects of whatever makes the system running them not-quite-MAME. I don't know what kind of permission is needed to sell derivative works of MAME, but I assume there's at least some legal hoops need jumping through. [Perennial bitching about how nice it'd be to buy ROM licenses without being subjected to borderline malware shite like GameTap that seems often the closest alternative goes here.]

Not sure what the blanket concern with MAME speed is - I was under the impression it aims to reproduce emulated hardware's limitations, which would include load-induced slowdown. Of course, it's often not accurate, so it'll be fast or slow in many cases, but that's no different from a more conventional port, is it?

Krimzon Kitzune · Post by **Krimzon Kitzune** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:50 pm

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:51 pm

Veracity wrote: Everything else is being emulated, I think I read (possibly elsewhere in this thread, even) by some kind of MAME variant, though I don't recall whether that applies only to the western releases or also to the Memories compilations whose content overlaps Legends.

Legends 2 PS2 supposedly uses Memories code. Some games in Memories like Darius Gaiden and Elevator Action Returns have the same slowdown issues, so I'm guessing it applies to the Memories collections (at least the first two) too.

Krimzon Kitzune · Post by **Krimzon Kitzune** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:58 pm

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:33 pm

As I understand it, the PC version uses MAME and the PS2 version uses Memories code. That's why the PC version has some games not in the PS2 version and vice versa. Slowdown issues may be related to that.

Krimzon Kitzune · Post by **Krimzon Kitzune** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:12 am

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:00 pm

...
...
...
So if Smraedis brought down Haruka's WR in G-Darius in this version, would it be accepted? By here informally at least if not by Arcadia officially or whatever

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:03 pm

I would think so. G-Darius is pretty much a perfect port if I'm not mistaken.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:23 am

DJ Incompetent wrote:...
...
...
So if Smraedis brought down Haruka's WR in G-Darius in this version, would it be accepted? By here informally at least if not by Arcadia officially or whatever

I don't know. In another post, bloodflowers said that the arcade PCBs of G-Darius have slowdown. From the sounds of it, the PS2 version of G-Darius might actually play a bit faster than the original.

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:21 am

I don't see how that is a valid reason to not accept somebody's score. Generally the faster something is played, the harder it is. It's like giving the game a handicap.

D · Post by D » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:01 pm

Can somebody from the top of their head say which version is better. These ps2 version or the ps1 versions. I'm sure somewhere on this forum these questions are answered. I read that G-Darius and Raystorm are actually ports based on the ps1 version, so they can't be better than the ps1 version right? Does the same goes for Night Striker?

TAITO MEMORIES VOL.1 JOUKAN
21- Darius Gaiden

TAITO MEMORIES VOL.1 GEKAN
24- Raystorm
25- G-Darius

TAITO MEMORIES 2 (Vol.1) out in January '07
4- Darius II

TAITO MEMORIES 2 (Vol.2) out in March '07
2- Night Striker

I also made this thread about that, but I am delting that thread as of now.
Original text there was:

01 Does the Taito Memories version run @60 fps and
02 does it run as smooth as in this attract video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7zw5pJ1iCY
At 00:35 you will see a demo running.
Now I know that the Saturn version does not run that smooth.
I had the Saturn version which did have analog control. Now I almost bought the ps1 version.
03 But does the Taito Memories II Gekan version allow play with analog control on ps3?

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:27 pm

D wrote:Can somebody from the top of their head say which version is better. These ps2 version or the ps1 versions. I'm sure somewhere on this forum these questions are answered. I read that G-Darius and Raystorm are actually ports based on the ps1 version, so they can't be better than the ps1 version right? Does the same goes for Night Striker?

TAITO MEMORIES VOL.1 JOUKAN
21- Darius Gaiden

TAITO MEMORIES VOL.1 GEKAN
24- Raystorm
25- G-Darius

TAITO MEMORIES 2 (Vol.1) out in January '07
4- Darius II

TAITO MEMORIES 2 (Vol.2) out in March '07
2- Night Striker

I also made this thread about that, but I am delting that thread as of now.
Original text there was:
01 Does the Taito Memories version run @60 fps and
02 does it run as smooth as in this attract video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7zw5pJ1iCY
At 00:35 you will see a demo running.
Now I know that the Saturn version does not run that smooth.
I had the Saturn version which did have analog control. Now I almost bought the ps1 version.
03 But does the Taito Memories II Gekan version allow play with analog control on ps3?

Raystorm runs smoother than the PS1 version, and G-Darius runs way smoother. The slowdown that affected both games (especially G-D) is basically gone. Never tried a side by side comparison for the graphics though.

Edit: I'm speaking of the US PS2 version of TL2.

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:30 pm

I'm not an expert and I have Taito Legends 2 rather than Memories but its not the same as the PS1 version of G Darius.

PS1 runs waaaaaaaaay slower.

D · Post by D » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:33 pm

So that perhaps could mean that Night Striker runs smoother as well!
Thanks guys.

I should probably just get all 4 volumes.

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:48 pm

It seems like, it's not so much slowdown in spots, as it is, the whole thing runs slower. In PS1 G-Darius the whole thing runs slower compared to the PS2 version. The PS2 version seems harder to me than the PS1 version. Not long ago I could 1CC the PS1 version on Maniac difficulty, but on the PS2 that's not happening. The PS2 version is a much more thrilling game IMO.

MR_Soren · Post by **MR_Soren** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:13 pm

Thanks for the Raystorm info. I was wondering if there was any reason to keep that game after getting Taito Legends 2.