HOW do you play shoot'em up?

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Flycast
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HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Flycast »

I'm new to the forum , and i was curious on HOW do you play shmups and what is the best manner.
Do you use original hardware? buy remastering and re-editions on modern consoles? use MAME/Final Burn Neo for an "arcade" experience?
And what is your controller of choice ? and why?


[PS: i don't know if this topic already exist]
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Steven
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Steven »

The actual best way to play is on M2 ShotTriggers on PS4 (not Switch) for those few games that are available, or on PCB, but PCBs can be old and in not great condition, expensive, and/or difficult to find, and you'll need extra equipment to use the PCBs. Some PCBs also have dumb shit like suicide batteries or whatever. ACA is also very good and cheap.

In general, Switch has more input lag than PS4 (hence the "not Switch" in the paragraph above, but if it's ACA or M2 it's still going to be fine on Switch, with maybe like 1 extra frame over PS4), which probably has slightly more input lag than PC in general, but I rarely see lag tests for PC, which saddens me. Xbox and PS5 are both mysteries, but I guess fighting game people hate the PS5 because it has more lag than PS4 on some fighting games or whatever.

The best controller is keyboard, but I don't think you can really use one unless you play on PC or MiSTer or attach one to your arcade cabinet, which you can totally do if you know how.

I play on my New Astro City because Sega is awesome and so is the New Astro City. Not having autofire sometimes kind of sucks, but I got used to it.
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Jonpachi
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Jonpachi »

Shmup Junkie has made a few videos on this topic that I think are worth a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mje1q66Zazo&t=46s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAX1duFWTmA&t=2s
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ChurchOfSolipsism
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by ChurchOfSolipsism »

Forget about playing the original PCBs nowadays unless you have unlimited funds and lots of time on your hands to either get a proper arcade cab (which, for shmups, likely means a candy cab. have fun sourcing one) or a supergun. Get used to trouble shooting hardware and being nervous every time you fire up one of your super expensive games.

I still play most of my stuff on a hacked Xbox360, which has excellent Cave etc. ports which include fun extra and practice modes. There are lots of relatively cheap joysticks available for it plus you can put emulators on it easily. Hacked xboxes are cheap and easily available, too.
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Steven
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Steven »

Oh yeah, I forgot something important: PCB is basically the single worst way to practice because no save states. Save states are good. Use them. Don't be like me and practice inefficiently by putting money into a machine, playing until game over, and then restarting the entire game from the beginning every time. That is inefficient and the worst way to learn games.

Also, there was this thing that Toaplan developer Uemura-san posted on Twitter a while ago where he said that your screen size is kind of important; basically, he said that Toaplan-style games with fast, aimed bullets = play on table arcade machines with smaller screens and bullet hell = play on upright cabinet with a bigger screen. Interesting to see a developer's thoughts on screen size, as I don't think I've ever seen a developer specifically comment on that before. I've known for a while that you are supposed to play Toaplan games on table machines, but actually seeing the guy who made those games just outright say this was pretty cool.
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pablumatic
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by pablumatic »

I'm no purist. I play however I can, usually with a console gamepad. Never cared much for large arcade joysticks, as I feel I don't have as much control with them, but I do own a couple.

I own lots of original cartridges and CD based shooters, but no PCBs. Any arcade shooters I play are through modern ports or via emulation (MAME or whatever is best for the occasion) if a port doesn't exist. Got a Mister FPGA getup, but haven't gotten into it yet.

I have a couple CRTs, but generally play on modern HDTVs. Old consoles are hooked up to the big acreen via a Retrotink 5x and HD Retrovision component cables.
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jehu
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by jehu »

I sit upon my porcelain throne and play the PSP Gradius collection. I control the illustrious Vic Viper with a 'nub.'

I play type D because the orange options and ripple laser match the orange bezel of my handheld. The blue and orange motif of Gradius is soothing with a touch of soul. I light candles, put on Enya, try to make it a nice aesthetic experience.

Someone of my age and corresponding hemorrhoidal density needs something to dull the pain. I find Gradius II does the trick. I fight through the pain by convincing myself that I, too, am at war with Gofer. He has lodged himself and his minions deep inside the dark tunnels of my body, but I can destroy them all. I imagine that if I get the clear while suffering atop my throne, I will eliminate my own alien threat and be miraculously healed.

I still haven't managed it yet, but it gives me hope.
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by XtraSmiley »

Easy answer, poorly.

More detailed answer, dedicatedPCB mainly, followed by conversion PCB for really expensive or rare stuff and finally, with M2 PS4 releases, I play that version.

I don't pay on PC or Switch, or older ports.
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Flycast
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Flycast »

XtraSmiley wrote:Easy answer, poorly.

More detailed answer, dedicatedPCB mainly, followed by conversion PCB for really expensive or rare stuff and finally, with M2 PS4 releases, I play that version.

I don't pay on PC or Switch, or older ports.
What do you mean with "Older Ports" ? :shock:
M2 releases are better than the originals ? :?:
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tadaito
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by tadaito »

I'll typically play a game on the 360 if it exists (my favorite console, after all), if it doesn't, I'll try and purchase it on Switch or PC. And if it STILL can't be gotten on any platform, I'll then likely just emulate it.

I primarily use a 6B Genesis controller, easiest thing to adapt and use on most platforms, and the extra buttons can be important in some ports.

Playing on PCB does sound fun but I dont have the money or space, really!
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To Far Away Times
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by To Far Away Times »

I usually like to play on a portable device on the couch, Switch or Steam Deck are the best options.

I prefer to use emulation so you get save states and better practice options, but some retail releases like the M2 ports are better than emulation.

I generally prefer D-Pad over an arcade stick
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by sunnshiner »

For older stuff it's emulation all the way for me, it works well enough for my scrubby abilities and I don't care about inaccuracies :D I'll buy new PC shmups though.
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by DGR114 »

I play shmups on a few different platforms. On PC I use mame and some Steam ports.(I just bought Ginga force and Mushihimesama today.) I own a few shmups on Switch like the Aleste Collection and some of Terarin’s games, I also use NSO to play Musha and EDF sometimes. My PS Vita has a few shmups like Dariusburst CS and ZanacXZanac. My main controllers are an 8bitdo M30 and a 8bitdo arcade stick with a Sanwa JIF and Sanwa buttons installed.
beer gas canister
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by beer gas canister »

I play modern ports when possible for ease of use. Not a high score player so I don't mind if the performance is a little slow, though I can only feel it on particularly rough ports.
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by guildenstern »

I usually go for official console releases or emulators. Like many here, I play the M2 games and touhou as well. I have a Horii Rap V (arcade stick) for the switch, I changed the lever and the buttons. I did that just to have a control that feels good since the pleasure for shmups is very mechanica. I am pretty sure the setup is less then optimal but I kind of like it very much. I play mostly for survival and followed Electric Underground and shmup junkies advice in terms of methods of play.
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Sumez »

Whatever works for you
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Meriscan
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Meriscan »

Flycast wrote:Do you use original hardware? buy remastering and re-editions on modern consoles? use MAME/Final Burn Neo for an "arcade" experience?
At this point I'm so used to using keyboard for playing shmups that I'll stick mostly to PC versions.
MAME is what I use by far the most, but I've enjoyed the Psikyo Steam releases, especially the first Strikers. Can highly recommend if you like that game. It's not 100% arcade accurate, but has slighly lower input lantecy than what you get in MAME.

Sadly the PC market seems to be pretty poor for shmup ports of arcade releases. Review numbers are low indicating poor sales.
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Flycast
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Flycast »

Meriscan wrote:
Flycast wrote:Do you use original hardware? buy remastering and re-editions on modern consoles? use MAME/Final Burn Neo for an "arcade" experience?
At this point I'm so used to using keyboard for playing shmups that I'll stick mostly to PC versions.
MAME is what I use by far the most, but I've enjoyed the Psikyo Steam releases, especially the first Strikers. Can highly recommend if you like that game. It's not 100% arcade accurate, but has slighly lower input lantecy than what you get in MAME.

Sadly the PC market seems to be pretty poor for shmup ports of arcade releases. Review numbers are low indicating poor sales.
I'm nearly sure that the publisher looks at this forum for their next title. With the Best 25th SHMUPS of the Year at the 19th edition, is absurd to see how many of them got re-released based on the list. Is a coincidence? who voted was really such an expert? or the publishers uses this forum for "taste" the audience?.
Last edited by Flycast on Tue May 23, 2023 3:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by BydoR9 »

I use a combination of consoles and emulation devices (I don't really use MAME anymore).

SNES mini (hacked), MD 1&2 minis and PC Engine mini - all using 8bitdo wireless pads.

I still own old PS2/1 Gamecube shmup disc releases, but if they are on Switch or PS4 I play those versions instead (R-Type/Gradius/Ikaruga etc).

I primarily use a Mayflash F500 Elite with PS4 Shottriggers releases on PS4 and other Cave releases on Switch.

I use a couple of Retrobit Saturn pads for Switch Radiant Silvergun, Crimson Clover, Andro Dunos 2 etc.

Still keep an 'on a wing and a prayer' PS3 for Gradius V and R-Type Delta, but most other stuff are on newer consoles now (Raiden IV etc) so I don't 'risk' using it - don't want to lose the ability to play Outrun 2!!

I don't worry too much about lag with my limited ability, I just love and appreciate the genre and have for most of my life (getting up there in age now).
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Gamer707b »

ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:Forget about playing the original PCBs nowadays unless you have unlimited funds and lots of time on your hands to either get a proper arcade cab (which, for shmups, likely means a candy cab. have fun sourcing one) or a supergun. Get used to trouble shooting hardware and being nervous every time you fire up one of your super expensive games.

I still play most of my stuff on a hacked Xbox360, which has excellent Cave etc. ports which include fun extra and practice modes. There are lots of relatively cheap joysticks available for it plus you can put emulators on it easily. Hacked xboxes are cheap and easily available, too.
I couldn't agree more. I work and do have the funds for arcade PCBs, but I don't have the patience to be always fiddling with them, scouring the internet for replacement parts and so on. Sounds like way too much work. Now, as many others have mentioned, there are studious like M2 that can do arcade accuracy as it hasn't been done before for a fraction of what a pcb can cost. I will say that sometimes these ports even exceed the arcade originals, such as Battle Garegga. The M2 PS4 version is the definitive version. Get yourself a PS4 if you don't already have one and download some excellent games. Or, if you're like me and love physicals, you can get many of these shmups in physical versions.

My shmups playing are on different consoles. I have games like Axelay and Super Aleste on Snes, R-type Delta I play on my PS1, a good amount of Saturn games, PS2 and so on. But, I don't recommend you go out and get these games, because they are ridiculously priced nowadays. I use my Hori Real Arcade Hayabusa stick for my PS4 and Switch shmups and various controllers, depending on the retro console I'm using. I will give you some friendly and honest advice. If money allows, I would get a Switch and PS4 and play tons of really good shmups. That's all you need really. Switch has a lot of indie, old school style shooters if you're not into bullet hell. Good luck!
Last edited by Gamer707b on Wed May 10, 2023 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by davyK »

If getting started and you have a PC then MAME is the way to start it.

Ideally you should get an arcade stick though some people prefer a normal game pad or a keyboard. You could start with keyboard and then try a pad - if neither work for you then try getting a budget stick.

If MAME is not possible then it depends which consoles you have. Also depends if you want to play modern bullet hell or old school shooters. Official console ports of modern games are very good now. Some of the Switch ports need to be approached with caution because of the controller lag. But if you are not going to be going for hard core high scores and just playing for survival, even the worse Switch ports are OK as long you don't pay too much. You could always try one digital purchase cheap and see if you can notice the controller lag and if you don't then maybe that will be good enough until to can start to feel it.

Any port by M2 on any console will be just fine.

If only starting, I wouldn't even consider PCBs. They can be expensive and are less consumer friendly to get going.
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Lander »

As with many action genres, it goes (in order of precedence):

#1 Don't get hit
#2 Hit the enemy
#3 Look cool while doing it

I use Retroarch on PC for most things, preferring the FinalBurn Neo core where available since it has that sweet lag-reducing runahead functionality, and tends to support most games that MAME does.

It would be a pleasant novelty to have a real cab for that game center authenticity, but building an approximation out of modern stuff has a more effective cost : payoff ratio.
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by BIL »

Same way I drive, gripping a cold frosty beverage in one hand and my raging hot boner in the other Image Image
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Rastan78 »

BIL wrote:Same way I drive, gripping a cold frosty beverage in one hand and my raging hot boner in the other Image Image
So how do you hold the stick with both hands busy?
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BIL
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by BIL »

Indeed, only such patrician home arcade accoutrements will do Image That reminds me, I need to swing by the store for some furniture polish and Preparation H!
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Rastan78 »

I like that they used a reverse "AC Slater" style config on those for added stability.
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However for those who play a lot of Psyvariar I recommend upgrading to the Seimitsu LB-45 balltop.
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

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Psyvariar 2: The Will To Fabricate A New O-Ring :shock:
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Shmupking22 »

I usually use the Steam Deck for Portability and its a emulation power house. I used to have a couple of PCBs but they eventually were knackered. Plus also having the Save states is really good for practicing.
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by Sarethums »

Currently I play on switch with a monitor in a wee shrine like area of my house on an xbox series x/s gamepad using a mayflash converter. I buy all my games digitally. I tend to leave the monitor in yoko but play around with tate from time to time.

I have other consoles but they are tidied away. Oldest is a wii but I play lots of older shmups on my switch from as far back as the original space invaders.

I just play for fun, I’m not very good and I like to jump from game to game. I prefer twin stick and vertical but have a few horis.
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Re: HOW do you play shoot'em up?

Post by DenimDemon »

I play mostly on Switch (traveled a lot for work last few years and Switch was so simple to carry)But also on PS4, raspberry on a cab monitor or occasionally on real hardware like the Neo Geo.
I also dig emulation toys like the PCengine Mini or the Egrett 2 Mini.
My set up is a 27” AOC gaming monitor, Sony Blacktrinitron and a cab crt.
I play for fun. I’m no pro shmup player but stg are and have always been my favourite genre. The epitome of videogames.
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