Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

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Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

No, it still holds up.
40
93%
Yes, it needs a refresh.
3
7%
 
Total votes: 43

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kid aphex
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Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by kid aphex »

So, just to get it out of the way: Ikaruga is my favorite STG of all time.
I definitely look at it through rose colored glasses.

That said, I was playing the PS4 version today, tate’d, on a nice 30 inch screen…
…and for the first time ever, it began to appear dated to me.

Prior to this, the thought had never really crossed my mind.
But, now that it has… I’m a little obsessed by the idea.

Can you imagine a remake/remaster with Iuchi involved, done by M2?
Keeping all the gameplay and scoring intact, but redoing the models, backgrounds, textures and lighting?
God damn… it gets me hard just thinking about it.

Plus: If there was an STG that could justify the efforts from a business/hype perspective, I think it’s Ikaruga.

What do you all think?
Any ideas for this fantasy remake? What would you like to see?
xxx1993

Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by xxx1993 »

Why? We've had enough remasters of Ikaruga already, plus Hiroshi Iuchi is currently working on Ubusuna... The PS4 version looks fine. At this rate you might as well make Treasure Street Fighter II the hell out of Ikaruga.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by kid aphex »

xxx1993 wrote:Why? We've had enough remasters of Ikaruga already, plus Hiroshi Iuchi is currently working on Ubusuna... The PS4 version looks fine. At this rate you might as well make Treasure Street Fighter II the hell out of Ikaruga.
The ports are barely remasters.
Even the PS4 version looks like shit on a big screen.
Like it or lump it, Ikaruga has mainstream appeal/potential. ($)
Treasure isn’t gonna be making money off anything else anytime soon.
And finally, it’s a game worthy of the effort.

Iuchi wouldn’t need to do much. Just see over the project so his name is attached.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by BrainΦΠΦTemple »

kid aphex wrote:So, just to get it out of the way: Ikaruga is my favorite STG of all time.
I definitely look at it through rose colored glasses.

That said, I was playing the PS4 version today, tate’d, on a nice 30 inch screen…
…and for the first time ever, it began to appear dated to me.

Prior to this, the thought had never really crossed my mind.
But, now that it has… I’m a little obsessed by the idea.

Can you imagine a remake/remaster with Iuchi involved, done by M2?
Keeping all the gameplay and scoring intact, but redoing the models, backgrounds, textures and lighting?
God damn… it gets me hard just thinking about it.

Plus: If there was an STG that could justify the efforts from a business/hype perspective, I think it’s Ikaruga.

What do you all think?
Any ideas for this fantasy remake? What would you like to see?
if yOu're only shOotin' for a 1cc or nO-miss superplay and not concerned at all w/ score, then the levelz turn into a joke since you just sit and hArdly shoot due to how most of the enemies are hilariously passive w/ a tErd-shaped iq. when sOme guy w/ an iq tHat'z actually got a digit in it cOmes in and sprayz some mean lookin' bullet pAtternz at you, i almost feel bad for him since all i gotta do is just swap to the same color of his bulletz to render him into a defenseless little bAbby. so if it getz remade and treasure fixes tHat nonsense to accommodate for survival clears then i cOuld dig it, but i really doubt they'd bother :<

fukken like, despite it only having a few decent bOsses (generally wHat treasure is best known for...and ikaruga for some reason), they're gOnna be the only obstacles in a standard 1cc tHat yOu'll have to practice a bit since the game only considerz scOre play in order to challenge the player, and this is a pretty bAd design flaw for the levelz themselves because the levelz are a formulaic breeze to learn. at its core, a shmup should be doing everything it cAn to fukken kick my ass into the back of my head. i uploaded this hard mode stage 2 replay i did like a year ago tO twitter the other day for a dumb lil bullsHit joke ^^

>>!!click here to WIN a FREE joke!!<<

so, uHm...i guess i'd vOte "yes" from a business perspective since treasure wOuld be able to make a profit from nostalgic people who talk abOut how much they love the game despite only having fifteen minutes of playtime lOgged on it, but i'd vote "nO" from a player perspective despite tHat answer assuming tHat by default the voter thinkz the game is awesome lol
really, like, when it comes to treasure shmupz, i don't think gradius V is gOnna be topped :>
i also thought silpheed: the lost planet was a pretty decent + cOol treasure shmup, but no one really talkz about tHat 1 for w/e reason

(also, just a little sidenote thingy, but i don't really think "dated" is a negative characteristic of something considering tHat games like galaga and yars' revenge are dAted as heCk, but tHat'z 1 of their mAin strengthz.)
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SPM
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by SPM »

Not necessary at all, but a new port with better practice tools and pushing the presentation to today's standards could be awesome and as you said, probably one of the few shmups worth it from a business perspective. But the game holds up really well, I don't see it happening.

------------

BrainΦΠΦTemple: even though there are a few parts that are trivial for survival, that's not true for most of the game. And also, why would you play those parts like that? It's an arcade game after all and scoring is fundamentally as important as survival, or even more (leaderboards are the only thing remaining after you end your run and leave the arcades).

I get your point, but your argument reminds me of those who claim that all arcade shmups without checkpoints are trivial if you only shoot for a clear (a "nCC") because you can keep continuing without engaging with the game at all. I mean, they're right... but why would they play like that? isn't that boring?
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StrzxgvNuvWvfld
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by StrzxgvNuvWvfld »

kid aphex wrote: Can you imagine a remake/remaster with Iuchi involved, done by M2?
Keeping all the gameplay and scoring intact, but redoing the models, backgrounds, textures and lighting?
God damn… it gets me hard just thinking about it.
This isn't what M2 do. In fact it sounds like the opposite of what M2 do.

Personally I think it looks fine.

So many of these re-imaginings just end up throwing in fancy effects, but losing the character of the original. And even if it was done well I'm still not sure why I'd play a re-imagining over the original.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by sunnshiner »

Jebus, no. It's hardly a hidden gem, is it? :lol:
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by Sima Tuna »

Ikaruga is the Michael Jackson's "Thriller" of shmups. It's the most overplayed, over-popular shmup of all time.

I have nothing against Ikaruga or anyone who likes it. But it's been rereleased so much times over the years, on damn near every system. Meanwhile, there are games like Mahou Daisakusen and Soukyugurentai which we don't have on any modern console. And when it comes to games that badly need quality ports, we have an entire shmup developer whose games receive only shit-tier ports. I'm talking about Psikyo, of course. The Ikaruga ports are perfectly fine and playable. But where is the "perfectly fine and playable" port of Dragon Blaze? Because I don't consider "no button mappings, no features, no practice options, 7+ frames of lag" to be playable. Dragon Blaze is as good a game as Ikaruga, at least in my opinion. But Dragon Blaze gets treated like shit compared to Ikaruga. Hell, most shmups do.

I'm not saying this is a zero-sum game and a port of Ikaruga would necessarily take away from other games. But I just don't see the reason why Ikaruga needs yet another port/remaster/touch-up when what you have now is already near the gold standard of shmup porting jobs. Does Ikaruga look like a Dreamcast game at times? Sure. Because it is one. I don't personally think that's a problem that needs fixing.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by Jeneki »

Having recently played a bit of Ikaruga on a new pc build (27" tate), it still looks fine to me.
Sima Tuna wrote:Mahou Daisakusen
Check out the M2 ShotTriggers version, it's nice.
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xxx1993

Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by xxx1993 »

kid aphex wrote:
xxx1993 wrote:Why? We've had enough remasters of Ikaruga already, plus Hiroshi Iuchi is currently working on Ubusuna... The PS4 version looks fine. At this rate you might as well make Treasure Street Fighter II the hell out of Ikaruga.
The ports are barely remasters.
Even the PS4 version looks like shit on a big screen.
Like it or lump it, Ikaruga has mainstream appeal/potential. ($)
Treasure isn’t gonna be making money off anything else anytime soon.
And finally, it’s a game worthy of the effort.

Iuchi wouldn’t need to do much. Just see over the project so his name is attached.
Well, if we're being honest, this is gonna be my reaction if Ikaruga gets another re-release on future consoles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVxJ016xb4Q
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by BrainΦΠΦTemple »

SPM wrote:even though there are a few parts that are trivial for survival, that's not true for most of the game.
lmfaoooooo
yeah, okAy, dude. literally demOnstrated wHat the levelz becOme on the twitter vid.

xoxak's review from back in the day is alsO on point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vAO6akjqdg

i used to think it is a gOod game, but i came to termz tHat it doesn't seem to be the case. you can waste all the hourz yOu want into this bOring piece of crAp though idc
SPM wrote:And also, why would you play those parts like that?
'cause the gAme letz you. tHat'z bad design =P
games like cho ren sha are alsO designed for score, but a nO-miss is still pretty fun, and currently doing a nO-miss very hard rank clear of dangun feveron is also proving itself to be a blast despite being aimed more w/ scOre in mind. neither of those are gOnna sit there and look like they've got their thumbz up their asses and let you cheese 'em if you play tHat way, and touhou is designed arOund score too, but doing an LNN clear is cOnsidered so rare and insane tHat the community archives the few playerz who managed to do it.
+ my thing is tO no-miss a shmup (and in touhou's case an LNN)
if a score player has an issue w/ something like darius gaiden, like chum does, then i wOuldn't fault them since the grey powerups are random in how many pOintz you are gonna get.
i also seem tO have 1 of the higher end western scores in saint dragon, but i was lucky since tHat sHit can also be pretty random.
SPM wrote:It's an arcade game after all and scoring is fundamentally as important as survival, or even more (leaderboards are the only thing remaining after you end your run and leave the arcades).
scOring is as fundamentally important or even more so than survival? the fuCk are you on about, dude? lol
you have tO survive to even score
SPM wrote:I get your point, but your argument reminds me of those who claim that all arcade shmups without checkpoints are trivial if you only shoot for a clear (a "nCC") because you can keep continuing without engaging with the game at all. I mean, they're right... but why would they play like that? isn't that boring?
no they aren't right because they're nOt beating the game lol
a 1cc is cOnsidered the general standard for beating an arcade game
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by PerishedFraud ឵឵ »

remaster deez nuts
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by Rastan78 »

PerishedFraud ឵឵ wrote:remaster deez nuts
8k 240hz raytraced nuts FTW
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by Ms. Tea »

I think that if you learn to stop worrying about whether a game is "dated" when you look at it, you're going to have a much better time in life.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by kid aphex »

Ms. Tea wrote:I think that if you learn to stop worrying about whether a game is "dated" when you look at it, you're going to have a much better time in life.
Ah, life advice from a presumptuous nobody. I miss actively participating in forums so much.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by kid aphex »

For me, it’s all about my love for the game.
I’d enjoying seeing everything about the game in a clearer, richer and more detailed way.
It’s not about ‘saving Ikaruga from obsolescence’,
It’s more about pouring more love into a piece of art that I appreciate.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by pieslice »

At least the Steam version already has way higher res textures than the console versions.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by Jonpachi »

Damn, this thread got hostile. Guy loves game, asks questions. Forum shits on him.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

kid aphex wrote:Keeping all the gameplay and scoring intact, but redoing the models, backgrounds, textures and lighting?
God damn… it gets me hard just thinking about it.
There are several recent instances of remakes that updated the 3D models in ways that fundamentally make them worse and less expressive than the original models. Final Fantasy X's updated faces on characters as well as the Demon's Souls remakes were both panned for having had sloppy artistic choices when they were updated.

I think that if you redo the graphical elements including the models and backgrounds, you're risking losing the aesthetic sense that made Ikaruga feel like, well, Ikaruga. It'd be doable, but it'd be a difficult tightrope to cross successfully. I'm not sure how much you can change graphical elements in Ikaruga without risking it no longer looking and feeling like Ikaruga, but worse case scenario is to include options for both the original graphics and the updated graphics. And, for a game in a fairly niche genre, I'm not sure if a full graphical overhaul even makes sense from a commercial standpoint, even if it is one of the better known shmups out there as far as mainstream recognition goes.

Maybe an Ikaruga sequel could work? Ikaruga 2 would likely draw more sales than another rerelease. But you'd think they'd have done something like that by now if they were going to.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by kid aphex »

Jonpachi wrote:Damn, this thread got hostile. Guy loves game, asks questions. Forum shits on him.
Yup. That is this forum. I didn’t expect anything else.
But I still love it and that’s why I’ve been here for 20 years… 8)
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by kid aphex »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
kid aphex wrote:Keeping all the gameplay and scoring intact, but redoing the models, backgrounds, textures and lighting?
God damn… it gets me hard just thinking about it.
There are several recent instances of remakes that updated the 3D models in ways that fundamentally make them worse and less expressive than the original models. Final Fantasy X's updated faces on characters as well as the Demon's Souls remakes were both panned for having had sloppy artistic choices when they were updated.

I think that if you redo the graphical elements including the models and backgrounds, you're risking losing the aesthetic sense that made Ikaruga feel like, well, Ikaruga. It'd be doable, but it'd be a difficult tightrope to cross successfully. I'm not sure how much you can change graphical elements in Ikaruga without risking it no longer looking and feeling like Ikaruga, but worse case scenario is to include options for both the original graphics and the updated graphics. And, for a game in a fairly niche genre, I'm not sure if a full graphical overhaul even makes sense from a commercial standpoint, even if it is one of the better known shmups out there as far as mainstream recognition goes.

Maybe an Ikaruga sequel could work? Ikaruga 2 would likely draw more sales than another rerelease. But you'd think they'd have done something like that by now if they were going to.
I agree 100%
It wouldn’t be an easy task.

In fact, I’m not sure that I can think of an example of it having been done right.
R-Type Dimensions is the first to come to mind and I think that game looked awful.
Of course, there was a greater distance to cover between 2d-3d, with more room to go wrong.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by pja »

I think the only part where I thought to myself "damn this looks crap" is the ending sequence (credits), it clearly looks like it's lifted straight from the dreamcast era and they barely refreshed it... and I dunno maybe that terrain in the background of stage 3 looks a bit crap, but otherwise I think the game still looks pretty good. Replacing the models/retexturing seems like a lot of effort that would bring rather minimal improvement.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by kid aphex »

pja wrote:Replacing/retexturing seems like a lot of effort that would bring rather minimal improvement.
In a way, I know what you mean and part of me wholeheartedly agrees.

In another way, I pause Stage 1 while the camera is sweeping over the forest and think, “Yikes”, then dream about an obnoxiously high-res forest with mist and movement and a tremendous amount of effort poured into it for only a few seconds of screen time and I get all dreamy.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by davyK »

I suppose its standing means it "needs" to be playable for current gen, but really? Another port of it?

I'd excuse it if there was a new level or two perhaps, or an arrange mode - but that would take a pile of effort to do properly.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by kid aphex »

davyK wrote:I suppose its standing means it "needs" to be playable for current gen, but really? Another port of it?
.
Not just a port.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by Rastan78 »

kid aphex wrote:In another way, I pause Stage 1 while the camera is sweeping over the forest and think, “Yikes”, then dream about an obnoxiously high-res forest with mist and movement and a tremendous amount of effort poured into it for only a few seconds of screen time and I get all dreamy.
Have you played it on 480p with a 31khz CRT. Like the DC version through VGA box for example? It does look amazing that way. Maybe part of the problem is scaling up those graphics to 1080p or whatever it is on the current vetsions. Cleaner edges yet exposes the lower res textures and simpler polys.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by To Far Away Times »

Yes, remaster with a polarity for every color of the rainbow. 7 button shmup.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by XoPachi »

I still think Ikaruga is perfect and it's presentation is immaculate. I don't need much else from it.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by kid aphex »

Rastan78 wrote:
kid aphex wrote:In another way, I pause Stage 1 while the camera is sweeping over the forest and think, “Yikes”, then dream about an obnoxiously high-res forest with mist and movement and a tremendous amount of effort poured into it for only a few seconds of screen time and I get all dreamy.
Have you played it on 480p with a 31khz CRT. Like the DC version through VGA box for example? It does look amazing that way. Maybe part of the problem is scaling up those graphics to 1080p or whatever it is on the current vetsions. Cleaner edges yet exposes the lower res textures and simpler polys.
I have, but it was a long time ago. Like…15 years ago.
And yes, that’s definitely part of my issue.
As tech advances, resolutions increase and older hardware like CRTs become less reasonable a proposition (for me, at least) the game gets ported and just gets mangled in upscaling.
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Re: Does Ikaruga need a remake/remaster?

Post by BrainΦΠΦTemple »

Jonpachi wrote:Damn, this thread got hostile. Guy loves game, asks questions. Forum shits on him.
i hope i didn't appear hOstile x.x
i wasn't attempting to be if i did. pretty blAsted on drugz \m/
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