Batsugun S-Tribute

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Jeneki
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Jeneki »

Ms. Tea wrote:It was patched, and reduced by between 0.5 and 1.5 frames depending on circumstances. I think the real issue is that Cotton/Guardian Force has excessive lag on the Saturn, which means emulator lag on top of the game's own lag was unbearable. I haven't seen anyone definitively measure the late games, but I'd bet the emulator performance is exactly the same - it's just that the games they're picking all had low lag on Saturn, so the total lag is fine for most people.
Yeah I was in an old discussion here about Guardian Force's latency. It's a game I played a lot, both on Saturn and STV. There's some info about the STV and Saturn coding on the Trap15 patch page: http://daifukkat.su/hacks/grdforcel/

So I fully expect Guardian Force to be a bit more than the rest. But not as bad as it is, even post patch. I tried the Rayforce demo, and while I found the latency to be noticeable it was still playable in my opinion.

Perhaps I'm just salty because Guardian Force is such a cool game otherwise. I've included it my entry for the yearly top-25 for quite a while now, so I'd love to see it get an awesome re-release.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by hamfighterx »

To Far Away Times wrote: (FWIW, Mrs. To Far Away Times also loves Pokemon Scarlet/Violet and says its among the best games in the series - No arguing with her, she's the boss :) ). The game was clearly not polished to the usual Nintendo standards, but perfectly enjoyable and playable.
So you're saying there are people who can still enjoy a game that other longtime genre/series fans feel runs unacceptably poorly? Innnnnteresting.
Batsugun is a beloved, historic STG. This is the type of game worthy of a fancy M2 Shot Triggers type port. Even porting the Saturn port is a little questionable, when doing a new arcade conversion would likely produce a better result.
OK, so wait for M2 to release it in 2028 or so with all the bells and whistles. Or play/emulate the arcade game. Or pay the $200+ to get a used Saturn copy.

IDK, I just find it obnoxious as hell to persist with this juvenile "Shitty Connection" garbage because they had one exceptionally poor release, after which they've released multiple subsequent games without big issues. You're only spiting yourself if you call yourself a fan of the genre and keep up the oh-so-witty name BS. This is one of a handful of developers actively releasing STGs, and encouraging the less hardcore potential buyers that everything the company releases is garbage (which is what the Shitty Connection moniker does) is going to do what, maybe reduce sales so you can sit in your smug self-satisfaction that you helped warn people away from an otherwise enjoyable game? It's not as if City Connection failing will mean the games get released by someone else - it's just a net loss for STG releases. M2 ain't gonna step in and start cranking out more than a handful of (admittedly excellent) releases per year.

But sure, die on your Cotton 2 hill.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by gbaplayer »

I ordered my copy on amazon already. :)
Btw is the arcade version also included in this Release?
And also btw, i thought the Cotton 2 Tribute was not that Bad.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by hamfighterx »

gbaplayer wrote:I ordered my copy on amazon already. :)
Btw is the arcade version also included in this Release?
Arcade version is not included, the "S-Tribute" series are Saturn games running via emulation. Previous series entries have been straight 1:1 emulated Saturn games, with some system level emulator functionality like a simple save state, scanline filter (which looks pretty good), and rewind in-game.

However, Batsugun is the first S-Tribute game to get the additional enhancements they're signifying with the "Boosted" name, which seem things that actually may improve on the original Saturn game by adding things like a new screen mode (to address the Saturn version's lack of a good TATE option that doesn't cut off part of the screen) and some useful HUD overlay details (sort of looks like a very poor man's M2 Gadgets to me).
gbaplayer wrote:And also btw, i thought the Cotton 2 Tribute was not that Bad.
Even for Guardian Force, the worst offender of the bunch, I have a great time playing it despite being told this is a practically unplayable port. So I guess if you're highly sensitive to lag maybe you want to skip it, but for the average player I doubt it's that noticeable.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by spmbx »

This seems to show the "boosted" version in gameplay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbnFdepkoWQ
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by cfx »

Go to 24:00 in that video to see the screen options, and it is shown in yoko mode with the correct full 4:3 screen.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Creamy Goodness »

Any word on training options/save states? That is the make or break for me and City Connection isn't really strong in that respect.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by hamfighterx »

Creamy Goodness wrote:Any word on training options/save states? That is the make or break for me and City Connection isn't really strong in that respect.
Every other S-Tribute release provides a single save state slot, so it seems like a sure thing that Batsugun will at least have that. More slots sure would be nice though, so here's hoping that's part of the "BOOSTED" enhancements.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Creamy Goodness »

I figure they would stick with the one save state. But if they have a proper practice mode or stage select that would be just fine. And yeah hopefully that is part of the Boosted enhancements.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by cfx »

These questions are answered in the above video starting at 13:00 where the game's menus are shown.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by hamfighterx »

cfx wrote:These questions are answered in the above video starting at 13:00 where the game's menus are shown.
And that looks like... no change to the usual S-Tribute single quick save/load slot. But they added an "Extra Options" menu that includes a Round Select (appears grayed out in the video though, need to clear stage first maybe?).

EDIT: I played through S-Tribute Layer Section last night and noticed that has a similar “Extra Options” menu including stage select, rank select, shot/laser power level. The single save slot combined with these options at least provides some sort of practice functionality - would obviously be better to have more slots though.

Also, the Layer Selection/Galactic Attack S-Tribute release runs just fine. I’m not concerned in the least about CC being able to do a quality port for Batsugun.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Steven »

They said on their Twitter thing that the arranged music is usable in-game. Now we just have to hope they don't fuck it up completely like Bitwave did.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by KAI »

Accoring to their last stream, original, saturn arrange and new arrange soundtracks can be selected ingame.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Rastan78 »

hamfighterx wrote:Also, the Layer Selection/Galactic Attack S-Tribute release runs just fine. I’m not concerned in the least about CC being able to do a quality port for Batsugun.
The input lag police are already on their way to your house.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by EVLSHMUP »

Just pre ordered, probably wouldnt get my teeth sunk deep enough into it to care about the input lag.

Would be interesting to see some seasoned PCB players give opinions on the games state of play.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Sengoku Strider »

EVLSHMUP wrote:Would be interesting to see some seasoned PCB players give opinions on the games state of play.
I'm quite sure Electric Underground will do a test video on it, and others will have measurements and comparisons posted to Twitter before that. But yeah, you'll need the PCB players to really spot the minor changes that happen with these ports.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by KAI »

I think this release is a perfect opportunity for people to stop calling the game Batsugan.

Just 1CCed vanilla an hour ago, and 2ALLed Special last week. Would love to try going for the 4-ALL when this comes out, cause the 3rd loop is fun af.

Hosoe's and Yasui's arranged track for Boosted are awesome. I'm crossing my fingers so hard for this to be the City Connection port with the least amount of input lag so far.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Flycast »

i'm fairly new with Taoplan/Cave/Raizing/M2 games , and i've read that Batsugun is the best game ever made by Taoplan, so i was interested in the limited edition of the game, but i've read also a lot of complain about the lag input. Why? there are input lag in other portings of City-Connection?
The original arcade version is so much different from this or the Saturn ? (for every game i read here, there are various version and most of the time idk what is the best or the worthy one).
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Steven »

Out Zone is the best game made by Toaplan, not Batsugun. Batsugun is the Toaplan game that is liked by people that do not like Toaplan. Slap Fight, Hishouzame, Kyuukyoku Tiger, Same! Same! Same!, Teki-Paki, Dash Yarou, Horror Story, and V-V are all also way better than Batsugun.

I just remembered that I had the chance to play the PC version of this City Connection release at the event the other day, but I didn't play it. Oops. Probably should have done that...
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Flycast »

Steven wrote:Out Zone is the best game made by Toaplan, not Batsugun. Batsugun is the Toaplan game that is liked by people that do not like Toaplan. Slap Fight, Hishouzame, Kyuukyoku Tiger, Same! Same! Same!, Teki-Paki, Dash Yarou, Horror Story, and V-V are all also way better than Batsugun.

I just remembered that I had the chance to play the PC version of this City Connection release at the event the other day, but I didn't play it. Oops. Probably should have done that...
ah really? i love the aesthetic of Batsugun, is so "summer-like"!!!
I prefer when there's a lot of water in the scenary/background.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Steven »

Batsugun is... acceptable, outside of the awful stage 4 boss, which is possibly one of the worst bosses I have ever seen in anything that is not Mega Drive Valis 1. The game doesn't really do anything special aside from putting a relatively large amount of bullets on the screen for the time, but at least it isn't completely broken like Tatsujin Ou, which is just a (very beautiful) mess of a game. The best thing about Batsugun is that the Toaplan Arcade Sound Digital Collection soundtrack for Batsugun comes with the (much, MUCH better) soundtrack for Dogyuun!! on the same disc, or the fact that you can sell the PCB for a ton of cash online and then use that cash to buy better games.

Despatche is really the person you should ask about Batsugun, though.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Some-Mist »

batsugun special is the mode to play tbh and it feels really cool to be able to loop a game even though the first loop is a snore
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by EmperorIng »

Steven wrote: Despatche is really the person you should ask about Batsugun, though.
Why, because he 4ALL'd Special? Oh wait... Or are you mistaking him with people who have impressive scores in the game like NTSC-J, Meriscan, Jaimers, Lags, etc....
outside of the awful stage 4 boss, which is possibly one of the worst bosses I have ever seen in anything that is not Mega Drive Valis 1
Image

Just because you always die there doesn't make it a bad boss, lol.

Special is fun for a lark, and a great "intro" to bullet hell because it's flashy and on the easier side. But to be honest, Original is better designed. It doesn't counter-stop, for one, and it's honestly not all that harder than Special. Both are worth your time imo.

I don't know how the Saturn Tribute will be but I've been wary of them after the Cotton 2 fiasco. Luckily, both Batsugun versions work flawlessly on just about any mame so Flycast should give them a real try. Special has a smaller hitbox, plus a shield and stronger bombs, which is why it's easier, generally, but if you get good at one you will get good at the other.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Steven »

EmperorIng wrote:
Steven wrote: Despatche is really the person you should ask about Batsugun, though.
Why, because he 4ALL'd Special? Oh wait... Or are you mistaking him with people who have impressive scores in the game like NTSC-J, Meriscan, Jaimers, Lags, etc....
Because he is the one that actually hates Batsugun, not me, and he'll definitely express that in a way that only he can. Basically, I just want an excuse to see Despatche rant about the game since I don't know why he hates it and I want to find out lol.

I don't know anything about Special other than that it exists, though, so I can't say anything about Special.
EmperorIng wrote:Just because you always die there doesn't make it a bad boss, lol.
It taking 2 decades to kill definitely makes it a boring boss, and boring bosses are bad. I prefer boss fights where one of us dies within 30~60 seconds (with me preferably being sent back to a checkpoint, rather than respawning in place, should I be the one to die) or time over happens and the game moves on. I LIKE bosses that are difficult to kill and will beat the fuck out of me, which is why I enjoy Daioujou Death Label in a weird and twisted way, but not when they are tedious.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Flycast »

EmperorIng wrote:
Steven wrote: Despatche is really the person you should ask about Batsugun, though.
Why, because he 4ALL'd Special? Oh wait... Or are you mistaking him with people who have impressive scores in the game like NTSC-J, Meriscan, Jaimers, Lags, etc....
outside of the awful stage 4 boss, which is possibly one of the worst bosses I have ever seen in anything that is not Mega Drive Valis 1
Image

Just because you always die there doesn't make it a bad boss, lol.

Special is fun for a lark, and a great "intro" to bullet hell because it's flashy and on the easier side. But to be honest, Original is better designed. It doesn't counter-stop, for one, and it's honestly not all that harder than Special. Both are worth your time imo.

I don't know how the Saturn Tribute will be but I've been wary of them after the Cotton 2 fiasco. Luckily, both Batsugun versions work flawlessly on just about any mame so Flycast should give them a real try. Special has a smaller hitbox, plus a shield and stronger bombs, which is why it's easier, generally, but if you get good at one you will get good at the other.

Thx for the answer.
I'm a non-bullethell shmups average player. But literally yesterday i've tried Dodonpachi (PS1) and i love it! If all the bullethell are like that, i love the sub-genre! And since this is from another famous bullet-hell team and is a sort of "30th anniversary edition" (1993-2023) i was interested.
Then i've accidentally discovered that the artworks are drawn by Junya Inoue (BTOOOM, which i have ).
The only thing that disincetivates me to use the MAME version is that the screen looks smaller , or maybe is me, but the Saturn version and the new ones seems to have a 4:3 ratio. Or not?

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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Steven »

Joker Jun is a cool dude. He signed both of my ESP Ra.De.s a while ago. When I asked him about what manga I should read, he instantly said BTOOOM! without any hesitation, so I started reading it and it's pretty good so far. I do sort of wonder why he specifically recommended that instead of his currently ongoing series, but I'll get there eventually™. Definitely talk to him if you ever get the chance.

Damn, I just remembered that he made some Batsugun manga. I need to go find that, but I think it is probably sold out by now.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by cfx »

Steven wrote:Out Zone is the best game made by Toaplan, not Batsugun. Batsugun is the Toaplan game that is liked by people that do not like Toaplan. Slap Fight, Hishouzame, Kyuukyoku Tiger, Same! Same! Same!, Teki-Paki, Dash Yarou, Horror Story, and V-V are all also way better than Batsugun.

I just remembered that I had the chance to play the PC version of this City Connection release at the event the other day, but I didn't play it. Oops. Probably should have done that...
Totally agreed on the highlighted part. Batsugun is the favorite Toaplan game of people who wish Toaplan were Cave.
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Some-Mist »

EmperorIng wrote:Special is fun for a lark, and a great "intro" to bullet hell because it's flashy and on the easier side. But to be honest, Original is better designed. It doesn't counter-stop, for one, and it's honestly not all that harder than Special. Both are worth your time imo.
original is better designed for sure, but I just have so much more fun w/ the special mode and prefer it tbh. kinda like pink sweets arrange vs pink sweets although the difficulty differences between those two modes are a lot more drastic

ps. for just a "lark" it's funny how it's the only mode you have a score posted for :P
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Flycast »

Wait....there were other episodes of the same game porting released together ? (Or near).
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Re: Batsugun S-Tribute

Post by Jonpachi »

Flycast wrote:Wait....there were other episodes of the same game porting released together ? (Or near).
The Saturn version had both original and special on the disc.
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