Batsugun S-Tribute

[Sumez]

This went off-topic the moment you responded to "A separate M2 port is coming much later" with "it's gonna beforever because for some reason japan-only releases don't count"

Getting off-topic, but most physical direct-to-consumer with limited editions now runs "open pre-order" which means they order as many as they get pre-orders of, which minimize scalpers that buy to resell.

In other words, it's making it notably harder for the players to get the games than if you just put them up for sale on various Japanese webshops and restock when you sell out.

I really really want to respect your take, because sure it would be nice to get more M2 releases with menus that don't need to be translated, but when you're criticizing Japan-only releases with one hand, while at the same time championing US-only releases, which are limited to a single retailer and impossible to order once the preorder window is closed, your bias becomes a little too clear.


If I have to pick between placing an order with Amazon JP and having the game 3 days later, or placing an order with LRG within a specific preorder window, and having the game 15 months later, or be forced to pay a massively upmarked secondhand price to scalpers, I'm not hesitating to go with the first approach. I think that's pretty damn sensible, and given those choices the better option for everyone.

I think the best realistic solution we've seen in recent years is what ININ does, and that should be the gold standard for any niche title such as STGs. The game becomes available in Japan early and can be bought by anyone then, but if you want a domestic release you can wait a few months and it'll be available with pretty much any available retailer, much cheaper than most major retail releases, and not be in risk of running out of stock.
And for the collectors who want their stupid limited nonsense, SRG are selling collector's packages along the side, without interfering with the widely available release.

[Manualmartin]

I like European publishers to sell the game so not saying that Limited Run is the only answer, I used them as an example because they actually made two M2 games available physically (and sure, those two already have global Xbox release and North American PlayStation release, so they actually had outside of Japan releases digitally in some regions!). DeathSmiles is perhaps a nice example because it's available globally digital, Strictly did the D2C limited, while Clear River Games made the retail versions for both Europe and North America. That could be the reality for M2's Toaplan releases...

And hands down, I agree that the long shipping times is not good. But:

or be forced to pay a massively upmarked secondhand price to scalpers

The open pre-order avoids that exact situation with scalpers. There's not set limit on the open pre-order so everyone who wants it will get it if they order within the pre-order window.

And yes, good example with separate brands like ININ. I like them and especially Dennis Mendel is a super nice guy that genuinely loves games. I'm credited on the Ultracore release and have several of their games.

[BIL]

My only request for outfits like M2 and Hamster is that they survive. Craftsmen of their ilk are a dying breed in a world full of slapdash nostalgia merchants like Digital Eclipse.

If that meant JP-only until the end of time, that's A-OK. Actually, if JP-only made their lives .1% easier, same. I hope they continue doing whatever it is that's kept them alive, for many years to come.

As to CC's Batsugun, it wouldn't surprise me if it turns out like their Layer Section. That is, playable, mostly on account of the original Saturn disc's input response being razor-sharp, but decisively inferior to M2's, which will most definitely address the port's missing slowdown. M2's being years further off doesn't mean much, in arcade context. You know what else is years off for 90% of this forum? Decent scores. Owned!

[Manualmartin]

Well, let me put it this way. Instead of selling a couple of hundreds extra through imports they could sell easily 5000 more games when making it available via a North American or European publisher. The DeathSmiles retail edition sold thousands of extra copies despite being already available digital global and the D2C via Strictly Limited. It would literally bring them more money to survive!

BTW. Curious on the "slapdash nostalgia merchants" attitude against Digital Eclipse? Their treatment with museums that have scans and interviews are amazing. The SNK interviews for Samurai Shodown Neo Geo Collection are great, and the Atari 50 Anniversary Celebration is easily a best-in-class execution of how a retro collection should be done. The latter has an amazing timeline with documents, videos, plethora of games. One of my favorite publishers! Had the honor to visit their studio in Emeryville (and they hos the Video Game History Foundation in the same building).

[Some-Mist]

seems that it just showed up on steam
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2282 ... e_Boosted/


edit: man, the ps360 gen almost feels like yesterday when you had to hope for releases to be region-free or your only other methods were owning a japanese console or finding another means to be able to play it. it definitely feels like a breeze nowadays compared to swapping between consoles for different titles

[Steven]

Well, there is a bad sign right there on the store page: no keyboard support. Yeah, not letting us use what is objectively the best controller possible is a fucking awful idea.

[Some-Mist]

they have to be able to patch it in though, right?
I shuddered when I saw it

[Bassa-Bassa]

BTW. Curious on the "slapdash nostalgia merchants" attitude against Digital Eclipse? Their treatment with museums that have scans and interviews are amazing. The SNK interviews for Samurai Shodown Neo Geo Collection are great, and the Atari 50 Anniversary Celebration is easily a best-in-class execution of how a retro collection should be done. The latter has an amazing timeline with documents, videos, plethora of games. One of my favorite publishers! Had the honor to visit their studio in Emeryville (and they hos the Video Game History Foundation in the same building).

Dude, port quality. All the museums, interviews and celebrations mean nothing without actually knowing the games in depth and distilling accurate emulations. The same goes for Dennis Mendel's ININ, btw. But yeah, just saying.

[Steven]

I checked every other S-Tribute and some of their CAVE stuff and the only other one that I saw that has the warning about not supporting keyboard is Layer Section. WTF Shitty Connection? Give me my fucking keyboard support, you lazy bastards.

[Manualmartin]

Dude, port quality. All the museums, interviews and celebrations mean nothing without actually knowing the games in depth and distilling accurate emulations. The same goes for Dennis Mendel's ININ, btw. But yeah, just saying.

I loved what I played. The definitive edition of Rock n Roll Racing with extending to widescreen is a great update, HD sprite scaling of Samurai Shodown Neo Geo Collection, enjoyed Disney Afternoon Collection and everything I’ve played in Atari 50 Anniversary Celebration feels good. I’m not a Digital Foundry level tech analyser though.

[BIL]

Well, let me put it this way. Instead of selling a couple of hundreds extra through imports they could sell easily 5000 more games when making it available via a North American or European publisher. The DeathSmiles retail edition sold thousands of extra copies despite being already available digital global and the D2C via Strictly Limited. It would literally bring them more money to survive!

If they're leaving money on the table, I have to assume it's for some better reason than a strange dislike of money. I'd rather hear from the devs themselves, here, before speculating further.

Though, again - they're serious craftsmen with well over a decade's consistent excellence apiece under their belts. Whatever keeps them alive, I'm always going to be averse to meddling with.

BTW. Curious on the "slapdash nostalgia merchants" attitude against Digital Eclipse? Their treatment with museums that have scans and interviews are amazing. The SNK interviews for Samurai Shodown Neo Geo Collection are great, and the Atari 50 Anniversary Celebration is easily a best-in-class execution of how a retro collection should be done. The latter has an amazing timeline with documents, videos, plethora of games. One of my favorite publishers! Had the honor to visit their studio in Emeryville (and they hos the Video Game History Foundation in the same building).

I own way too much expensive old videogame paper as it is. It's nice to have around, but what I'm paying for is the old videogame itself, translated to modern console. I bought SNK 40th Anniversary Collection, because it's the only available version of Search And Rescue for console. It's all kinds of fucked up. Controls don't work as described, the audio and framerate buckle under certain inputs, and across all LS-30 titles, the right stick will randomly freeze, necessitating a thrashing unstick. The left stick freezes similarly, but I use the dpad on that side. I'm not a shelf queen, I'm a shelf KING, and when shitty controls blow my 1LC run, best believe imma get buttmad on der interwebzeit.

I was a little surprised, given their apparent good repute, and asked the producer if SAR's issues might be patched (I thought I'd keep expectations moderate). I was told that, at under three years, the collection was now "super old," and would never, ever be patched. He was right - it never was. If this had been a PCB with full arts and LS-30 included, I'd have been forced to return it, or risk destroying it with my own fixes. I'm pretty sure I could hack together a better experience via MAME.

So I was done with DE after that. But then that TMNT collection arrived, and I could hear the uproar all the way over in my "never cared about TMNT games" bunker. This happens often when they handle stuff I've similarly nil interest in; see also that Rockman X collection with fucked input lag. I could put my hand back on the stove with that Blizzard collection full of carts I already own - I delightedly doubled up on M2's Castlevania and Contra sets despite having all their content and more - but slapdash nostalgia merchantry seems a bit of a recurring pattern with DE. \(O_O)/

[dojo_b]

On keyboard/mouse support: not a tech guy, just some speculation others might be able to address:

Is it possible that under whatever Kb/M-support method CC attempted, testing found even more latency added to an already less-than-snappy product? For which they have an already-dodgy reputation?

Possible reasons including (i) entry-level keyboards for office work can have inherently poor latency, perhaps more so than cheap gamepads which are at least expected to play action games, (ii) I think Kb/M are treated somewhat differently than other USB devices by the operating system, since they're mission-critical for the user, so maybe a naive in-game support implementation can add delay?

[BrianC]

The recent Rockman/Megaman X collection wasn't Digital Eclipse. AFAIK, it was Capcom with M2 doing the challenge mode thing.

The DE Atari 50th Anniversary collection didn't get everything right. The emulation of the 5200 Star Raiders is broken (even the original mode) and controls can't be mapped properly for some trackball games. I ended up using the keyboard to jump in Crystal Castles.

[Rastan78]

Yeah DE was responsible for the original MM legacy with the NES games.

[Marc]

I've got to give them props for the wide-screen Rocky Roll Racing though, it's gucking marvellous, with new tunes.

[Flycast]

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2022 ... 0-years-on

An update for Batsugun (Arcade version) in 2023 ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMyRLgw0y3g

PS: I don't know how to directly post a youtube video.

[Zeether]

It's on EXA though so good luck finding a location with it that isn't having to send the whole unit off for firmware updates

[system11]

Yeah it's well known that once a firmware update for Exa is released, every game stops working. The system somehow knows, telepathically, and refuses to run. Every effort is made to make sure location test examples and new games are sent to machines which will refuse to run them.

I too have hit this problem, I tried to play Strania on my older system last week - it kicked me in the balls and set our cat on fire, which we do not even own. It must be someone elses. I buried it anyway.

[Steven]

Maybe that is why I never see anyone ever playing on the exA machines at Mikado and Taito Hey. Everyone is always playing Fatal Fury Special and stuff instead. I've still not seen exA Batsugun. I've still only ever seen P-47 Aces Kai once, too, and that was at the location test and that makes me kind of sad because P-47 Aces Kai is good and cool.

Nobody really plays the NESiCA machines, either, though.

[hamfighterx]

The DE Atari 50th Anniversary collection didn't get everything right. The emulation of the 5200 Star Raiders is broken (even the original mode) and controls can't be mapped properly for some trackball games. I ended up using the keyboard to jump in Crystal Castles.

Yeah, I was utterly shocked at how poor some of the Atari 50th emulation felt, and DE frequently seems to have weird issues with control mapping. Crystal Castles is one that bugged me too, and really shockingly bad given that it's one of the higher profile games on the compilation. DE has been doing mediocre emulation work for ages, at least they are consistent.

On the other hand, giving credit where it's due, Digital Eclipse does a consistently great job on their bonus features, galleries, and all of that stuff. Atari 50th truly is one of the best collections of all time if viewed purely as a neat interactive documentary, kind of a playable museum exhibition. It's just mindblowing to see such care taken on that front, and then seemingly always paired with the inevitable technical issues.

The TMNT collection is another good example, it's just stuffed with neat goodies... but then the game performance issues with that one are maddening for people who care about accuracy. The Street Fighter 30th collection is another one that has truly wonderful additional content... but as usual, there's lag in the games, poor sound emulation, poor control configuration options, bad graphical filters.

DE's work is fine for someone who wants to take a quick spin through a game they remembered fondly for a nostalgia hit. Honestly, that's probably a large audience, and I could definitely see where a lot of that crowd would find the ancillary content to be a bigger draw than perfect emulation or a competent scanline filter. But for people who are hoping to get definitive reference quality versions of these games on a modern platform or neatly bundled in a compilation? DE ain't it.

[EmperorIng]

Gotta have a hearty lol watching this guy show off the Batsugun S-Tribute port and the ship responding to his movements what seems like half a second later.

[Rastan78]

Batsugun: Saturn Tribute Busted

[Udderdude]

He's using analog stick, he deserves it.

[hamfighterx]

Maybe that is why I never see anyone ever playing on the exA machines at Mikado and Taito Hey. Everyone is always playing Fatal Fury Special and stuff instead. I've still not seen exA Batsugun. I've still only ever seen P-47 Aces Kai once, too, and that was at the location test and that makes me kind of sad because P-47 Aces Kai is good and cool.

Nobody really plays the NESiCA machines, either, though.

Do you happen to know if Mikado or Hey (or anywhere else) currently have Aka to Blue exA? I really want to give that a few plays when I'm there in a little over a month. Hope it works...

Will have to see if you're around when I hit the arcades

[Loom1es]

Gotta have a hearty lol watching this guy show off the Batsugun S-Tribute port and the ship responding to his movements what seems like half a second later.

I have just watched the video and it looks bad. I was in for the PS4 version from Amazon at a cost of nearly £70, i have now cancelled my order. I will wait until the game is released and get confirmation on the performance before i buy it. I really want this game but not at the cost of poor performance, i will wait for M2 if needs be but it wont be here until 2025 at the least.

[BIL]

Therein lies the ultimate strength of X-TREEEM arcade hardcore: turn your glacial release rate Kanashimi into white-hot burning IKARI and rack up some badass clears n' scores in stuff that's already out

Would sooner blow my back out attempting to bite my own dong off than fork out for laggy work tbh That Layer Section PS4 ver was surprisingly tolerable, I can only assume because the Saturn disc it's emulating is at event horizon levels of input sharpness, like Saladin's proverbial scimitar leaving a silk scarf which drifted upon fluttering in twain, but then BOOF! Ray'z BBQ nuked it from orbit with THREE big beefy folding chair shots. Same principle yo

[Steven]

Maybe that is why I never see anyone ever playing on the exA machines at Mikado and Taito Hey. Everyone is always playing Fatal Fury Special and stuff instead. I've still not seen exA Batsugun. I've still only ever seen P-47 Aces Kai once, too, and that was at the location test and that makes me kind of sad because P-47 Aces Kai is good and cool.

Nobody really plays the NESiCA machines, either, though.

Do you happen to know if Mikado or Hey (or anywhere else) currently have Aka to Blue exA? I really want to give that a few plays when I'm there in a little over a month. Hope it works...

Will have to see if you're around when I hit the arcades

I think one of them might have it. The only one I specifically remember is that both have exA Saidaioujou.

I'll definitely be around, though I do have a fairly odd work schedule and I do work have work on Saturdays.

[system11]

Maybe that is why I never see anyone ever playing on the exA machines at Mikado and Taito Hey. Everyone is always playing Fatal Fury Special and stuff instead. I've still not seen exA Batsugun. I've still only ever seen P-47 Aces Kai once, too, and that was at the location test and that makes me kind of sad because P-47 Aces Kai is good and cool.

Nobody really plays the NESiCA machines, either, though.

You'd have had to have gone to a location test event since it's not released yet, one place was streaming from the machine for days.

[Steven]

Maybe that is why I never see anyone ever playing on the exA machines at Mikado and Taito Hey. Everyone is always playing Fatal Fury Special and stuff instead. I've still not seen exA Batsugun. I've still only ever seen P-47 Aces Kai once, too, and that was at the location test and that makes me kind of sad because P-47 Aces Kai is good and cool.

Nobody really plays the NESiCA machines, either, though.

You'd have had to have gone to a location test event since it's not released yet, one place was streaming from the machine for days.

It's definitely out; it says 絶賛稼働中 on the Japanese exA website and you can buy it from BEEP right now if you wanted to: https://www.beep-shop.com/ec/products/detail/27818

This place has the release date listed as last September, too: https://kvclab.com/shopdetail/000000000 ... ge1/order/

Edit like 9 hours later: lol you meant Batsugun, didn't you? Oops.

[Steven]

My game shipped and should arrive tomorrow.

Is anyone risking getting this besides me? I am especially curious about the PC version's lag, but I really don't feel like buying a second copy since I don't expect this to perform well.