The most challenging or 'the most hard but fair' shmup
The most challenging or 'the most hard but fair' shmup
following the previous post this i would like to concentrate on your personal "Hell Hard but Fair" shooter.
in my opinion its also the favourit shooter because thats what a Great shmup should be hard but keep you playing with the feeling thats your fault not the games.
i start with mine:
Star Soldier GC
Battle Garegga
in my opinion its also the favourit shooter because thats what a Great shmup should be hard but keep you playing with the feeling thats your fault not the games.
i start with mine:
Star Soldier GC
Battle Garegga
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TWITCHDOCTOR
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Shatterhand
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Strychnine
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The main problem with R-Type and similar games is that once you memorize the level (which is largely necessary to beat many of the levels), the game greatly drops in challenge. Many games rely on learned patterns, but R-Type's often soul-crushing difficulty stems primarily from the unexpected and unavoidable if you have not memorized the level to some extent. I'd say Dangun Feveron is the most challenging, yet fair. Gradius, however, is not fair.
The white clouds floating on the great blue sky
And the boiling red blood shed in fierce gaming
Those who give up halfway through
Their battered bodies will never forget!
Segata Sanshiro, Segata Sanshiro! Sega Saturn... shiro!
And the boiling red blood shed in fierce gaming
Those who give up halfway through
Their battered bodies will never forget!
Segata Sanshiro, Segata Sanshiro! Sega Saturn... shiro!
Layer Section/Rayforce, without a doubt.
It's got the most perfectly balanced gameplay I've experienced in a shmup. Maybe that's why it's one of my all time favorites.
It gets pretty intense but I felt it was "fair" all the way through. You never get the feeling that you're in an impossible or no-win situation. There are no "cheap deaths". I'm not sure how this game ranks though in terms of difficulty among the people here. Most people probably don't find it THAT difficult, but it took me about a month of practice to beat the Saturn version.
It's the most satisfying shmup that I've ever beaten.
It's got the most perfectly balanced gameplay I've experienced in a shmup. Maybe that's why it's one of my all time favorites.
It gets pretty intense but I felt it was "fair" all the way through. You never get the feeling that you're in an impossible or no-win situation. There are no "cheap deaths". I'm not sure how this game ranks though in terms of difficulty among the people here. Most people probably don't find it THAT difficult, but it took me about a month of practice to beat the Saturn version.
It's the most satisfying shmup that I've ever beaten.
Salamander, I'd say. I remember the first time I played it, it was total rapage as I struggled with the first level. It was clearly a difficult game, but I was still compelled to play on. I was so pleased with myself the first time I took down the brain boss. I've been completely and instanteously destroyed in that game, but I have never griped.
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freddiebamboo
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I would say most Treasure and Cave shooters, for a start.
Gradius V still suffers from some slippery-slope difficulty, but most of the time even if you lose all options you have a chance- you just go into survival mode. Also, even though I still regularly die on the 5th boss' second form and the stage 7 mid-boss, I beat them without dying the very first time, convincing me it's not all about memorization, even if techniques can be helpful to learn.
One of the reasons Ikaruga always feels so fair is that you have two ways to dodge any attack. One, you can move out of the way. Two, you can press the button to change color. This means it's impossible to truly become cornered by any attack.
Dangun Feveron, for all its speed, still remains incredibly intuitive- except level 4 might have one or two 'cheap shots' that have to be memorized, unfortunately.
And of course DoDonPachi. Never have I felt so close, but yet so far... I love the bomb balance. The game practically spoils you with them, yet you still feel so guilty for using each bomb.
Gradius V still suffers from some slippery-slope difficulty, but most of the time even if you lose all options you have a chance- you just go into survival mode. Also, even though I still regularly die on the 5th boss' second form and the stage 7 mid-boss, I beat them without dying the very first time, convincing me it's not all about memorization, even if techniques can be helpful to learn.
One of the reasons Ikaruga always feels so fair is that you have two ways to dodge any attack. One, you can move out of the way. Two, you can press the button to change color. This means it's impossible to truly become cornered by any attack.
Dangun Feveron, for all its speed, still remains incredibly intuitive- except level 4 might have one or two 'cheap shots' that have to be memorized, unfortunately.
And of course DoDonPachi. Never have I felt so close, but yet so far... I love the bomb balance. The game practically spoils you with them, yet you still feel so guilty for using each bomb.
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captain ahar
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can't say i agree with him there.Strychnine wrote:Gradius, however, is not fair.
I love Gradius, and I never thought I would say that. I have yet to play a Gradius game that strikes me as unfair (still haven't played ARC Gradius 3 though).
Layer Section definitely fits the title (of the Topic). Always seems to be fair, but I must say the ship "re-centering" still kind of pisses me off.
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Then you cannot speak!captain ahar wrote: I love Gradius, and I never thought I would say that. I have yet to play a Gradius game that strikes me as unfair (still haven't played ARC Gradius 3 though).
Seriously, that game is in a league of its own. Try it, you'll see. Go grab the rom and emulate it if you have to. But it's just stupid-hard.
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captain ahar
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BulletMagnet
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I'd probably agree with that: RSG and Ikaruga are both tough but fair in most instances, and Cave's stuff excels at eliminating cheap stuff from their ganeplay systems from the word "go," though some would argue that it homogenizes their stuff a bit too much (please don't follow up on that, I'm not trying to start anything here! ).WarpZone wrote:I would say most Treasure and Cave shooters, for a start.
As for Gradius, I've been playing Gradius Gaiden lately, and while I like a lot about it, I find that I almost always die from one of three things:
1) Being stranded and killed repeatedly in a nasty area after dying once and losing all my powerups.
2) Weapon fire rate is too slow, and some minor enemy or other out of a swarm manages to crash into me during a lengthy gap in my weapon's discharge.
3) I can't see a bullet against the background.
Perhaps I just need to "get used to" the game a bit more, and I AM getting a bit farther as I practice, but I wouldn't put Gradius into the same "league" as the other games I mentioned, at least solely in terms of pure "fairness."
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Strychnine
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"Can't emulate"?? That's like "Can't Pee!"captain ahar wrote:can't emulate. it appears i will have to live without knowing unfair Gradius (until i get that III + IV, when i can spend money again)
what do you mean you can't emulate?
Yeah, I speak primarily of Gradius III arcade when I talk about unfair....Gradius V is certainly very fair.
The white clouds floating on the great blue sky
And the boiling red blood shed in fierce gaming
Those who give up halfway through
Their battered bodies will never forget!
Segata Sanshiro, Segata Sanshiro! Sega Saturn... shiro!
And the boiling red blood shed in fierce gaming
Those who give up halfway through
Their battered bodies will never forget!
Segata Sanshiro, Segata Sanshiro! Sega Saturn... shiro!
Maybe his computer isn't powerful enough for it. Hell, my laptop won't even emulate GBA at full speed unless I disable music.Strychnine wrote:Can't emulate"?? That's like "Can't Pee!"
what do you mean you can't emulate?
No matter how good a game is, somebody will always hate it. No matter how bad a game is, somebody will always love it.
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captain ahar
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i'm sure that i "could." but i have very little desire to (and on top of that, my computer is exploded, temporarily). in the future when I get more involved with arcade games, i am sure i will turn to it to find out what games i want next. as i am just starting with the arcade format, i know of plenty of things i want for sure, and would rather not ruin the first experience with a "preview" (Guwange being the exception, full replay on CD/DVD anyone? ).
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