Better without Autofire

[BrainΦΠΦTemple]

all i see from yOu doing tHat is "i can't mAsh."

Ahem.

gOod. now do it w/ old shmupz

[jehu]

all i see from yOu doing tHat is "i can't mAsh."

Ahem.

Fucking hell, Roo - impressive, but that looks absolutely miserable. Think of your career and family before you go and do something like that again.

all i see from yOu doing tHat is "i can't mAsh."
so, if yOu have nothing to say, please do not be provoking. tHank you

Господин ПФП, it's very cool that you're so adamant about no auto, and I like that some segment of the community still resigns themselves to the mash on occasion. I marvel at no auto clears when I'm in the mood - work like MathU's great Darius Gaiden content, finger-suicide showcases like Roo's, and some of your clear videos, too. But the attempt to issue community-wide edicts and appeal to your own categorical imperatives is a little strange in this context, don't you think?

yet to see a single new "argument" for auto's defense

The reason you don't see 'new arguments' for autofire is because the old arguments suffice. Old arguments don't expire like milk. I don't think I've seen anything from you that would overturn them - a contemptuous tone does not refute an argument!

oH yeah, the argument tHat the japanese use autofire, so it's fine is a dumbsHit argument. tHat's literally just an appeal to authority

To the extent that you're making an argument, it seems to be here. The appeal to "everyone should do hand exercises like me, a musician" as an argumentative magic wand just isn't serious - and I trust that my contempt for it will suffice as a refutation.

Here's why trying to wave away this argument as an 'appeal to authority' is an unsuccessful criticism: Rules in games are established by conventions. Conventions are grounded by authorities. Therefore, it is perfectly appropriate to appeal to authorities when discussing rules that govern games. Without a governing body like in some professional games, the idea of 'authorities' is obviously more diffuse in STG communities. It is communities and their members are the de facto authorities; their decisions are made collectively - informally, and often over time - and become conventions.

So, an appeal to the authority of Japanese players' conventions is perfectly appropriate here. You're attempting to disparage the authority of the conventional rules agreed upon by the vast, vast majority of players (and contemporary developers), both in Japan and everywhere else in the world. We all govern ourselves by own collective rules. Your counterargument is to call this a logical fallacy. But, of course, it's not logically fallacious at all if you understand how communities work. The real source of your argument is the appeal to your own sense of what is and isn't right.

I know you'd like to ground it in developer intentionality, but appealing to intentionality won't be successful either. Rules that govern communities of players are not established at the beginning - once and for all. Rules for communities of game-players are continually and communally negotiated - you can debate them with the ultimate goal of changing them, but, as just one guy, you won't find it that successful to be issuing edicts about how everyone else ought to play.

If you're genuinely trying to be persuasive and win hearts and minds, go ahead and cart out more detailed arguments. I'm always entertained by attempts to elevate the discourse in STGs, even if it's all a bit overbaked, silly, and kind of futile.

Though I'm sure you're sincere in your beliefs, I do think I sense a teeny-tiny taste for a self-stroking ego onanism in your love of heralding your hardcore commitment to no autofire. Admit it, Brain, it's a little obscene! Something ineffable about the way yOu write betrays your weakness for the performatively countercultural gesture!

Masochism isn't a virtue.

[Steven]

Tatsujin Ou no miss no auto counterstop when?

[pulsemod]

not to mention, you know, most people seem to just like playing with autofire. there's no need to even bring up topics like cheating or strange need for justification when it's not necessarily even for any sake of competition (yes, there's plenty of players who simply like playing their shooting games however way they want). if you're going to compete on a leaderboard then the leaderboard's rules are obviously the authority. there are games with no-autofire leaderboards, so I don't see a point in arguing about how other people like to play their games

[BIL]

Brainy has always been fukken hardcore tbh, you have to respect that mighty wrist!

But tbh I just want to hose motherfuckers down real good, their bucking and writhing as my wall of flying lead pulverises their assholes into steaming hot ravioli is 96% of why I am here.

I abhor Final Fight with autofire though, how can you feel every beefy hit of your murderous Tom Selleck cosplayer's fists on the bald dome of a screaming wheelchair cripple at 15hz??? 3;

[Steven]

When I played Twin Cobra with Uemura-san he used autofire. I think that alone says more than enough.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Fucking hell, Roo - impressive, but that looks absolutely miserable.

100% agreed. It's miserable. There's two major gimmick sections in Bayonetta that encourage intense mashing nonstop because the default firing speed's so slow, and a third one that's mercifully short after that. I've beaten the game enough on platforms where I didn't have access to autofire that I normally use autofire via JoyToKey on PC for convenience (which makes this section far less of a chore, visibility's still an issue), but I've deliberately done several Pure Platinum runs of the game and the bonus chapter with my autofire setup turned off to showcase how you can approach it if you're playing with stock controls. You basically have to hold your thumb over X and Y on an Xbox controller and hammer it quickly for this whole section though. :/

There's also several boss QTEs (the later Jeanne fights in Hard / NSIC) that are so demanding that they're nearly impossible to win (anything less than a full meter is failure) due to the single button mashing required, but it turns out they're optional you can just dodge when the prompt appears and retaliate with normal attacks.

I've played so many shmups until my early 20s with the attitude that AUTOFIRE BAD, scoffing at the idea of rapid fire controllers, until I realized it's just a matter of ergonomics, and I was actually avoiding shmups that demanded mashing and sticking to CAVE / Touhou / similarly designed doujins because I was getting sick of mashing. Why miss out on an otherwise great game because of that? I don't play beat 'em ups with it though, I prefer to keep more precision there, and I find you don't have to hammer the button repeatedly without breaks like in a shmup.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

How about this for a new argument: Comparison.

If authentic mashing is so important, why do so many games include inbuilt autofire or otherwise make it unecessary?

You know the line for what's objectively better is at least blurred if not nonexistent when some of the media already defies the "norm" without user intervention.

[Steven]

There is a reason that games eventually started having internal autofire as the only option, which is because mashing sucks.

Then again my right arm is partially disabled and I still play crazy shit like 1P Same! Same! Same! without auto on weird occasions when I feel like torturing myself, or just to tell my partial disability to fuck off. Or maybe I'm just insane. Or probably all of the above. Most of the time I still use auto, though. I still want to clear either that or Tatsujin Ou this year... I should probably start practicing, which I have definitely not done recently.

BTW you absolutely don't need fast auto in any version of Same!; 5~7Hz will do just fine outside of boss fights. Same with Kyuukyoku Tiger, for that matter. I can get just as far in 1P Same! without auto as I can with it (stage 5~6 or so), so at least in my case it doesn't make much of a difference.

[blazinglazers69]

All I can do is roll my eyes at this cat person for what's pretty much blatant contrarianism at this point. I think they like pointless arguments more than shooters.

The only thing that matters, in general, is fun and personal satisfaction.

Now, if there is some kind of official competition for scoring on a leaderboard, that's different. You go right ahead and post your glorious clears to the official MasHErs OnLy leaderboards if you want, buddy. We'll all be sure to go and watch your replays from start to finish.

I will go ahead and shamelessly appeal to the authority of, um, pretty much every single modern game developer for shooters and pretty much the vast majority of everyone here and go ahead with my TeRmINator-HuMAN-DeFYinG-aUToFire button and then proceed to sleep like a baby after doing so.

I was being tongue-in-cheek for the most part with my comment about throwing away quarters on every continue in a shooter, but since I'm in the midst of such a shmup purist, I must ask--where does the line for "cheating" between the modern shmup experience and the pure analog origins of the 80s arcade scene lie for you?

For example, are you sure your lever and button tensions match the exact specifications of all the original cabinets you're using? I mean, since there's clearly no room for arbitrary grey areas here, I am assuming you're not using easier to press sanwa buttons??? You're not being a liar about how HARD you MASH those buttons right? Because there's clearly a significant difference between buttons and how much strength is required in the finger to press different kinds.

Perhaps we'll just have to have leaderboard distinctions for button mashing based on tensions per button. Oh hell, we'll have to throw in more distinct leaderboards for controller button mashing vs arcade stick button mashing too! After all, the posture of the hand is quite different and mashing on a controller just might be *gasp* easier! Heaven forbid!!!

And levers! Oh my god don't even get me STARTED! (Too late, actually.) Folks, we love our levers, do we not? Entire threads--Korean Levers! LS-32 levers! No the stiffer LS-56 levers! Nah don't sleep on the subtleties of the LS-40!!!

Cat person: You're not maybe using a lever that could potentially confer you a slight advantage to what you might have found in a 1989 arcade, right? Troubling indeed.

And what about TVs? Since modern displays can often add input lag, that clearly makes a game harder. So if I use autofire for example but have more input lag due to my monitor, does the added difficulty of that input lag in any way diminish the disgraceful cheating of using autofire? Is cheating for you a spectrum or a black and white, either/or dichotomy of which you and the original game designers are the grand authority of?

What if I clear a game using autofire on like a Brutally Difficult mode but also clear it without autofire on a Novice mode? Is the PURE MASHING Novice clear mode a "better" clear? Or--stay with me here--is mAShInG perhaps only one aspect of skill involved in clearing a shmup along with timing, bombing, macro dodging, micro dodging, general movement, concentration, consistent practice structure, resource management, rank management, etc? If I have all of these aspects down and get an extremely difficult clear using the DREADED autofire, am I still a filthy, casual, weak-fingered cheater?

Maybe, just maybe, there's a little more nuance to this conversation than you're willing to admit and by repeatedly arguing with a board that does not agree with you or get swayed much if at all by your posts, rather than sticking to your guns and fighting the good fight, what you're actually doing is being a bit of a goofball. A little self-awareness goes a lOng way.

[BrainΦΠΦTemple]

all i see from yOu doing tHat is "i can't mAsh."

Ahem.

Fucking hell, Roo - impressive, but that looks absolutely miserable. Think of your career and family before you go and do something like that again.

all i see from yOu doing tHat is "i can't mAsh."
so, if yOu have nothing to say, please do not be provoking. tHank you

Господин ПФП, it's very cool that you're so adamant about no auto, and I like that some segment of the community still resigns themselves to the mash on occasion. I marvel at no auto clears when I'm in the mood - work like MathU's great Darius Gaiden content, finger-suicide showcases like Roo's, and some of your clear videos, too. But the attempt to issue community-wide edicts and appeal to your own categorical imperatives is a little strange in this context, don't you think?

yet to see a single new "argument" for auto's defense

The reason you don't see 'new arguments' for autofire is because the old arguments suffice. Old arguments don't expire like milk. I don't think I've seen anything from you that would overturn them - a contemptuous tone does not refute an argument!

oH yeah, the argument tHat the japanese use autofire, so it's fine is a dumbsHit argument. tHat's literally just an appeal to authority

To the extent that you're making an argument, it seems to be here. The appeal to "everyone should do hand exercises like me, a musician" as an argumentative magic wand just isn't serious - and I trust that my contempt for it will suffice as a refutation.

Here's why trying to wave away this argument as an 'appeal to authority' is an unsuccessful criticism: Rules in games are established by conventions. Conventions are grounded by authorities. Therefore, it is perfectly appropriate to appeal to authorities when discussing rules that govern games. Without a governing body like in some professional games, the idea of 'authorities' is obviously more diffuse in STG communities. It is communities and their members are the de facto authorities; their decisions are made collectively - informally, and often over time - and become conventions.

So, an appeal to the authority of Japanese players' conventions is perfectly appropriate here. You're attempting to disparage the authority of the conventional rules agreed upon by the vast, vast majority of players (and contemporary developers), both in Japan and everywhere else in the world. We all govern ourselves by own collective rules. Your counterargument is to call this a logical fallacy. But, of course, it's not logically fallacious at all if you understand how communities work. The real source of your argument is the appeal to your own sense of what is and isn't right.

I know you'd like to ground it in developer intentionality, but appealing to intentionality won't be successful either. Rules that govern communities of players are not established at the beginning - once and for all. Rules for communities of game-players are continually and communally negotiated - you can debate them with the ultimate goal of changing them, but, as just one guy, you won't find it that successful to be issuing edicts about how everyone else ought to play.

If you're genuinely trying to be persuasive and win hearts and minds, go ahead and cart out more detailed arguments. I'm always entertained by attempts to elevate the discourse in STGs, even if it's all a bit overbaked, silly, and kind of futile.

Though I'm sure you're sincere in your beliefs, I do think I sense a teeny-tiny taste for a self-stroking ego onanism in your love of heralding your hardcore commitment to no autofire. Admit it, Brain, it's a little obscene! Something ineffable about the way yOu write betrays your weakness for the performatively countercultural gesture!

Masochism isn't a virtue.

good lOrd, your post is a mess. holy sHit x.X

Masochism isn't a virtue.

cOndescendingly pussying out isn't a virtue =3

like seriously, wHat a hilariously low resolution little platitude to cope w/ your flagrantly seething insecurities lol
why dOn't you just play every game on easy if masochism isn't a virtue? why dO superplayz? the amount of practice 'n sHit tHat goes into it -- it's masochism. it really just seemz like yOu don't understand the nature of virtue.
hEll, just play on easy like a weenie w/ autofire. hell, why dOn't you just watch a video instead. why play competitive video games at all? why dOn't you just waste your time on animal crossing if there's nOthing virtuous on working your ass off on clearing a game for people tO watch and enjoy? jesus fuCk, man
why dOn't you just credit feed on extra easy since anything more is just masochism? where the fuCk is your passion?

To the extent that you're making an argument, it seems to be here. The appeal to "everyone should do hand exercises like me, a musician" as an argumentative magic wand just isn't serious - and I trust that my contempt for it will suffice as a refutation.
The reason you don't see 'new arguments' for autofire is because the old arguments suffice.

you literally dOn't even attempt to refute it. i like how yOu are using vague condescension as "magic wand" to not even put up a coherent argument. this is lazy and cOndesending "secret knowledge" of manipulation tacticz people do to act against you when they dOn't have a damn thing at all. you are arguing tO keep your limitationz. how can yOu not be expected to do hand exercises? if you play video games at all PERIOD, you should be doing hand exercises regardless of whether you mash or not. you should still be doing them since any repetitive task, regardless of wHat it is, is putting yOurself at risk for a repetitive strain injury. every argument against mashing was already debunked in my first pOst. all i've been getting is bitter and regurgitated nonsense as a response lol

jesus christ, why are hand exercises seen as sOme arcane and incredibly difficult and complicatedly abstract thing? carpal tunnel exercises take yOu like TWO MINUTES, literally -- if tHat. put yOur handz out in front of you and pull your fingerz back into yOur handz for like a minute. tHat'z it! you did yOur hand exercises for the day! good job! the fact tHat people argue up and dOwn all day about carpal tunnel but dOn't know or do the exercises regardless of playing video games for long hours is extremely pathetic.
hand exercises are pArt of the process of the entire performance. yOu have to train yourself outside of the game as well. it is a spOrt. it is nO different than excelling at other thingz.

when the carpal tunnel thing is cOmpletely shot down, there's nO argument over it. how hostile people get over this is also evident tHat there's a great amount of insecurity concerning the issue. why else wOuld it piss people off so much, dude? lmao
there's alwayz an undertOne of sour grapes and insecurity in these pOstz and because of this, it is evidence tHat you are afraid to mash and unable to do it.
gee, it's almost like people are insecure abOut cheating in video games. imagine tHat! =O
for having a different opinion, i've been referred to by bareknuckleroo over discord as a fidget spinning autistic for mashing and also called a tryhard. i hardly see this as gOod sportsmanship.
if anything, the way yOu guyz act over this has built my confidence up to realize just how damn good i am at this sHit xD

[Though I'm sure you're sincere in your beliefs, I do think I sense a teeny-tiny taste for a self-stroking ego onanism in your love of heralding your hardcore commitment to no autofire. Admit it, Brain, it's a little obscene!

i am nOt the authority and never said tHat i am, so w/e ego sHit you're seeing is a projection, as demonstrated in the below quote w/ w/e the fuCk you wrote. the authority here is the rules of the game, and changing any internal element of them w/ external bullsHit is by definition, CHEATING. ^-^

Something ineffable about the way yOu write betrays your weakness for the performatively countercultural gesture!"

wtf is this psuedo-intellectual word salad gibberish? drop the thesaurus and maybe pick up sOme hemingway, dude.
why are you even using the wOrd "ineffable?" tHat meanz "something unable to be spoken or expressed." tHat'z extremely out of place, because it sure as fuck seemz like this is sHit tHat can be verbally expressed, so you're nOt even using the word correctly lmfao

So, an appeal to the authority of Japanese players' conventions is perfectly appropriate here. You're attempting to disparage the authority of the conventional rules agreed upon by the vast, vast majority of players (and contemporary developers), both in Japan and everywhere else in the world. We all govern ourselves by own collective rules. Your counterargument is to call this a logical fallacy. But, of course, it's not logically fallacious at all if you understand how communities work. The real source of your argument is the appeal to your own sense of what is and isn't right.

they're really mOre of an authority? they didn't make the game lmao
this is actually the mOst ridiculous part of your post. the authority is the gAme, not the community.

I know you'd like to ground it in developer intentionality, but appealing to intentionality won't be successful either. Rules that govern communities of players are not established at the beginning - once and for all. Rules for communities of game-players are continually and communally negotiated - you can debate them with the ultimate goal of changing them, but, as just one guy, you won't find it that successful to be issuing edicts about how everyone else ought to play.

like the rest of yOur post, this is a longwinded excuse tO say tHat you wanna cheat. =p

If you're genuinely trying to be persuasive and win hearts and minds, go ahead and cart out more detailed arguments. I'm always entertained by attempts to elevate the discourse in STGs, even if it's all a bit overbaked, silly, and kind of futile.

cOnsidering the pseudo-intellectual word salad reasoning you do all the time, this lOokz like a false attempt at appEaring openminded

But the attempt to issue community-wide editcs and appeal to your own categorical imperatives is a little strange in this context, don't you think?

yeah okAy, kant

[Jeneki]

In other news, I found a nice little browser addon that converts posts to lower case for readability.

[BrainΦΠΦTemple]

In other news, I found a nice little browser addon that converts posts to lower case for readability.

siCk. you can read my fuCked up writing now hEl yea

[BIL]

Wait - Brain do you type like that because you hurt your hands playing shumps D: pls say no (I'm retarded that's why I type like I do 3;)

[Jeneki]

Actually I installed it to read BIL's name. Not sure what other use it has. (Shrug)

My bad writing is because, see sig.

[BIL]

daww :3

[BrainΦΠΦTemple]

There is a reason that games eventually started having internal autofire as the only option, which is because mashing sucks.

Then again my right arm is partially disabled and I still play crazy shit like 1P Same! Same! Same! without auto on weird occasions when I feel like torturing myself, or just to tell my partial disability to fuck off. Or maybe I'm just insane. Or probably all of the above. Most of the time I still use auto, though. I still want to clear either that or Tatsujin Ou this year... I should probably start practicing, which I have definitely not done recently.

BTW you absolutely don't need fast auto in any version of Same!; 5~7Hz will do just fine outside of boss fights. Same with Kyuukyoku Tiger, for that matter. I can get just as far in 1P Same! without auto as I can with it (stage 5~6 or so), so at least in my case it doesn't make much of a difference.

i guess i may have to actually recOnsider same!(x3) auto as an acceptable run then if this is the case. it seemz like auto for any shmup tHat requires mashing is really nOt appropriate at all.
but obviously, if yOu have a hand disability, auto is appropriate in your case, and i can understand why yOu would hate mashing.
but it is kickass tHat you can successfully mash sometimes in same!(x3) despite the hand disability, dude

Wait - Brain do you type like that because you hurt your hands playing shumps D: pls say no (I'm retarded that's why I type like I do 3;)

naw, just dOn't do a touhou LNN from the grOund up like i do. it's prObably some of the hardest possible sHit you can do w/ a shmup, and i guess i lost my mind underestimating the difficulty and just type like a brain damaged fuCk now because tHat LNN sHit starting as a complete touhou novice probably did make me a brain damaged fuCk ^^;;

so i guess we're both retArdz yAy =D

[BIL]

That's a relief（＾w´ ）One time poor emphatic got his stick hand caught in a fuckin contraption at work and like any proud man of the hard gayming his first thought was "welp there goes the microtaps" D: Fortunately he is a viking IRL ie fuckin hardcore and it didn't do shit to him, luckily! Probably destroyed the offending contraption now I think about it.

[BrainΦΠΦTemple]

All I can do is roll my eyes at this cat person for what's pretty much blatant contrarianism at this point. I think they like pointless arguments more than shooters.

The only thing that matters, in general, is fun and personal satisfaction.

Now, if there is some kind of official competition for scoring on a leaderboard, that's different. You go right ahead and post your glorious clears to the official MasHErs OnLy leaderboards if you want, buddy. We'll all be sure to go and watch your replays from start to finish.

I will go ahead and shamelessly appeal to the authority of, um, pretty much every single modern game developer for shooters and pretty much the vast majority of everyone here and go ahead with my TeRmINator-HuMAN-DeFYinG-aUToFire button and then proceed to sleep like a baby after doing so.

I was being tongue-in-cheek for the most part with my comment about throwing away quarters on every continue in a shooter, but since I'm in the midst of such a shmup purist, I must ask--where does the line for "cheating" between the modern shmup experience and the pure analog origins of the 80s arcade scene lie for you?

For example, are you sure your lever and button tensions match the exact specifications of all the original cabinets you're using? I mean, since there's clearly no room for arbitrary grey areas here, I am assuming you're not using easier to press sanwa buttons??? You're not being a liar about how HARD you MASH those buttons right? Because there's clearly a significant difference between buttons and how much strength is required in the finger to press different kinds.

Perhaps we'll just have to have leaderboard distinctions for button mashing based on tensions per button. Oh hell, we'll have to throw in more distinct leaderboards for controller button mashing vs arcade stick button mashing too! After all, the posture of the hand is quite different and mashing on a controller just might be *gasp* easier! Heaven forbid!!!

And levers! Oh my god don't even get me STARTED! (Too late, actually.) Folks, we love our levers, do we not? Entire threads--Korean Levers! LS-32 levers! No the stiffer LS-56 levers! Nah don't sleep on the subtleties of the LS-40!!!

Cat person: You're not maybe using a lever that could potentially confer you a slight advantage to what you might have found in a 1989 arcade, right? Troubling indeed.

And what about TVs? Since modern displays can often add input lag, that clearly makes a game harder. So if I use autofire for example but have more input lag due to my monitor, does the added difficulty of that input lag in any way diminish the disgraceful cheating of using autofire? Is cheating for you a spectrum or a black and white, either/or dichotomy of which you and the original game designers are the grand authority of?

What if I clear a game using autofire on like a Brutally Difficult mode but also clear it without autofire on a Novice mode? Is the PURE MASHING Novice clear mode a "better" clear? Or--stay with me here--is mAShInG perhaps only one aspect of skill involved in clearing a shmup along with timing, bombing, macro dodging, micro dodging, general movement, concentration, consistent practice structure, resource management, rank management, etc? If I have all of these aspects down and get an extremely difficult clear using the DREADED autofire, am I still a filthy, casual, weak-fingered cheater?

Maybe, just maybe, there's a little more nuance to this conversation than you're willing to admit and by repeatedly arguing with a board that does not agree with you or get swayed much if at all by your posts, rather than sticking to your guns and fighting the good fight, what you're actually doing is being a bit of a goofball. A little self-awareness goes a lOng way.

yeah, any1 who differs frOm the majority is a contrarian. yeah okay, dude. a little self-awareness dOes go a long way. stop picking apart arbitrary theoretical strawmen nerd sHit and just play w/ w/e computer, crt w/e setup wOrkz for you. jesus christ lmfao

yOu can't mash and are mad. end of story =3

[Rastan78]

they're really mOre of an authority? they didn't make the game lmao
this is actually the mOst ridiculous part of your post. the authority is the gAme, not the community.

When it comes to credit feeding the community would call that an invalid way to get a clear while most games do nothing to prevent it. So who do we go with as the authority on that one?

[BrainΦΠΦTemple]

they're really mOre of an authority? they didn't make the game lmao
this is actually the mOst ridiculous part of your post. the authority is the gAme, not the community.

When it comes to credit feeding the community would call that an invalid way to get a clear while most games do nothing to prevent it. So who do we go with as the authority on that one?

you call it arbitrary nerd sHit tHat doesn't matter

[Rastan78]

It's not really arbitrary at all. It was always an ingrained part of the arcade culture in Japan that informed how games were designed at a fundamental level. So much so that there are anecdotes of Japanese game devs visiting American arcades and being shocked to find people played with credit feeding and actually enjoyed it.

You could make the argument that 1 coin play was such a part of the culture they didn't account for the fact that games did nothing to communicate that to players and the concept was almost completely lost overseas.

Big Brain, so mashing makes you the big dog and suddenly 1CC is only arbitrary nerd shit when it doesn't suit your argument? Your confidence is faltering a little there.

[BrainΦΠΦTemple]

It's not really arbitrary at all. It was always an ingrained part of the arcade culture in Japan that informed how games were designed at a fundamental level. So much so that there are anecdotes of Japanese game devs visiting American arcades and being shocked to find people played with credit feeding and actually enjoyed it.

You could make the argument that 1 coin play was such a part of the culture they didn't account for the fact that games did nothing to communicate that to players and the concept was almost completely lost overseas.

Big Brain, so mashing makes you the big dog and suddenly 1CC is only arbitrary nerd shit when it doesn't suit your argument? Your confidence is faltering a little there.

nOt reading this crAp because the premise of yOur argument is stupid.
the game is still the authOrity because it isn't a 1cc by the rules of the game itself. end of discussiOn

[Rastan78]

The game or the community being the authority is a false dichotomy.

[BrainΦΠΦTemple]

The game or the community being the authority is a false dichotomy.

dude, this argument suxx. you're starting tO muddy the waterz here w/ subjectivity nonsense. in fact, there's absOlutely no argument at all because you didn't address it. yOu're just making up pseudointellectual bullsHit =D
it might be the wOrst 1, so congratulationz on tHat achievement.

if sOmeone continues in a game 3x, then they gOt a 3cc. if they dOn't continue at all it is a 1cc. those are clearly defined objective rules within the game itself. by the very definition of the game, you did nOt get a 1 credit clear if yOu enter more than 1 credit, completely independent of a cOmmunity.
this should be wHat is defined as "common sense," but it is obviously not very common based on w/e the fuCk nonsense you're trying tO desperately claw at to justify autofire because you can't mash.

as far as i see it, yOu might as well be playing animal crossing because shmupz are not for you if yOu are going to tell me utter nonsense like this and cheese a game w/ autofire tHat is clearly not designed for it in mind.

I GoT A 1CC W/ 75 CREDITZ!!! =DDDDD

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gonna gO practice dangun feveron very hard rank nOw, so if any1 has more silly nonsense to justify their lack of skillz, then i'll come back tO it later.

https://youtu.be/cfh8cLmFW5Q?t=1729
for the recOrd, if yOu use autofire, you completely cheese this bOss like in jaimerz run (i respect his mOre modern shmup playz since those are designed w/ autofire in mind), but if you use autofire on rios in r-type 2, then you're missing out on one of the mOst badass boss fightz ever designed in a shmup, especially on loop 2

[Rastan78]

Main Brain, take a deep breath. Your toxicity is making you look like the insecure one here my friend.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is no absolute authority. How games get played is informed by the original dev, the players, weird shit that gets discovered long after a game's release, the arcade ops that set up dips and control panels, scorekeepers etc.

Your argument around whether the authority is the players or the game is a false dichotomy bc it doesn't allow for any other realistic possibility to enter in. You're in total black and white thinking territory.

One simple question, what makes you so absolutely sure that arcade game devs didn't want players to use autofire even if it wasn't in the game? How can we deduce how they felt about an external device that's not part of the game logic by looking at the game itself?

I posted a quote earlier in the thread that makes it very clear at least one dev didn't care either way. Might as well repost it since it didn't sink in.

From Seibu staff circa 1992:

It is the player who plays the game and decides whether the game is fun or not.
　Therefore, it is the player who decides whether or not the game will be fun with the rapid-fire device, and it is the store that decides whether or not it should be installed.
　As a manufacturer, the most important thing is that the games we make are fun to play, so as long as there are no particular problems, we don't question the pros and cons of rapid-fire devices.

[pulsemod]

seriously, all this talk about insecurities and making up excuses only seems like a reflection of yourself since nobody else in this thread seems to think like that or care about that in the slightest. please try to understand peoples' point of view and look at what you're saying and maybe understand that it seems like you're coming in here just to viciously insult people.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

In this thread:
Edit: Image removed once again! Was a headpat gif of brainy's avatar :>>>>>

Actually I installed it to read BIL's name.

Be careful about following this advice. Once you see it, you can never go back. That shit will haunt your dreams. Janeki and I are already scarred for life.

[BIL]

^ Heed this warning! Otherwise... You Will See The Birth Of New Black_Man.txts (｀w´メ)

Spoiler

[Fingolfin]

Goddamn!
BrainΦΠΦTemple’s awesome eclectic electronica makes me want to “touch my monkey”!



Sieg fucking heil to our great overlord, the massive monster of mash!



“yeah okAy, kant“
You say Kant, I say Kunt!



As Samwise sez “Boil ‘em, mash ‘em, stick ‘em in a stew….”



[Dem belly full but they hungry, evidently.]

What pray tell are these magic “hand exercises”? — feels like this thread won’t be complete until you share your antidote to carpal tunnel syndrome/repetitive strain injuries.



Of course shit can be googled but this seems way better:
nothing like going to THE AUTHORITY.

Do you have nothing to share but EGO, your superplays (which are genuinely impressive but who cares w/ all of this?), weak keys and comps, and thoroughly unpersuasive and meta Übermensch text? (mostly a rhetorical question but given the nature of this site we’re all game ).

Thus Spake Zarathustra or rather BrainΦΠΦTemple.

Got to go cheat my way to another very satisfying 75 quarter 1cc?!?!?