What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

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Starfighter
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What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Starfighter »

Thread wrote: Akai Katana Shin/Slash
Gradius (PCE)
Gradius 3 (SNES)
Gradius Advance/Galaxies/Generation
Gradius Gaiden
Harmful Park
Metal Black
Natsuki Chronicles
Nemesis (C64/Gameboy)
Parodius Da! (PCE)
R-Type Delta
R-Type Final 2
SideLine
X Multiply
Zed Blade/Operation Ragnarok
I've always preferred vertical shmups. To the point where when hearing about a new shmup, and it turns out it's a horizontal one, I just space out and ignore it. My regular excuses for this behavior are:
  • They often have a lot of irritating walls I have to avoid
  • Bullets going sideways are much harder to read
  • They tend to have a lot of powering up management with a ton of stuff to combine
After giving this some thought I came to the conclusion that these things all are related to me not being any good at them. Walls are (almost) always irritating because I run in to them, bullets going sideways are harder for me to read, and of course I'm going to be struggling with weapon combinations and powering up in different ways if I can't manoeuvre the stages without dying all the time.

The only thing I can think of to remedy this is practice. So, I was wondering if you fellas have any suggestions for me! It doesn't have to be great games with an awesome soundtrack and wow cool yay sweet, I want to slowly but surely practice my skills at the mentioned things. Often even small free games with a lot of other flaws can be great for certain things.

I've 1CC:d the following horizontal shmups but I think the main reason for this is that they don't have a lot of the things I'm bad at: Darius Gaiden, Deathsmiles and Over Horizon.

Actually, any advice at all is welcome as I just want to finally be able to embrace the horizontal part of this genre. :)
Last edited by Starfighter on Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:53 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Steven
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Steven »

R-Type Final 2 doesn't have death upon collision with walls and is super easy if you use Leo II, and Natsuki Chronicles has the optional bullet trajectory display thingy, so try those.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by bobhasashotgun »

Maybe give the snes version of Gradius 3 a try? It will test all the issues you are struggling with, but the difficulty is dialed down compared to the arcade games, so it's rather approachable for new players. And the soundtrack is awesome.
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Starfighter
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Starfighter »

Steven wrote:R-Type Final 2 doesn't have death upon collision with walls and is super easy if you use Leo II, and Natsuki Chronicles has the optional bullet trajectory display thingy, so try those.
Thank you, I've written them down!
bobhasashotgun wrote:Maybe give the snes version of Gradius 3 a try? It will test all the issues you are struggling with, but the difficulty is dialed down compared to the arcade games, so it's rather approachable for new players. And the soundtrack is awesome.
Nice, I've been wanting to give Gradius series a chance but I've been hesitant because of... well... *gestures at the thread start* I'll see what I can do about getting a copy of that one!
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Samildanach »

Starfighter wrote:
Steven wrote:R-Type Final 2 doesn't have death upon collision with walls and is super easy if you use Leo II, and Natsuki Chronicles has the optional bullet trajectory display thingy, so try those.
Thank you, I've written them down!
bobhasashotgun wrote:Maybe give the snes version of Gradius 3 a try? It will test all the issues you are struggling with, but the difficulty is dialed down compared to the arcade games, so it's rather approachable for new players. And the soundtrack is awesome.
Nice, I've been wanting to give Gradius series a chance but I've been hesitant because of... well... *gestures at the thread start* I'll see what I can do about getting a copy of that one!
Those are all excellent choices but I would suggest starting with the original Gradius as it is the easiest, and is a great teacher of the basics of horizontal shmups. The PC Engine is the best version as it is nicely balance and adds an additional level not present in the arcade. Despite being a game originally from 1985, its gameplay still holds up today as a fantastic introduction to this specific genre.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Shatterhand »

I want to add support to the original Gradius.

Gradius 3 on the SNES is a rather easy game indeed, if you have experienced previous games on the series. I remember I got the 1cc on it without much effort in a couple of weeks. Don't try the arcade version though, it will rip your spine off.

But I think the original Gradius not only is easier, but it also has many of the foundations later games would use. It's a game I usually can 1cc without much hassle even if I stay away from it for eons, it's also a lot of fun to play even today, and I think it will give you a good structure for practicing.

The thing with horizontal shmups is that they are usually a lot more about learning level layouts and enemy behaviour than vertical shmups. FOr most of the time, you really should approach them with a different mindset.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Starfighter »

Good advice, I'll try to find PCE-Gradius as well! Thankfully it appears to be a hucard (I only have a CoreGrafx)! :)
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by neorichieb1971 »

Konami games.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Shatterhand »

Starfighter wrote:Good advice, I'll try to find PCE-Gradius as well! Thankfully it appears to be a hucard (I only have a CoreGrafx)! :)
Yes, it is a HuCard. It was the first game I ever played on a real PC-Engine back in ... 98 I think?

Gradius 2 is the one on CD-Rom. I only have a CoreGrafx too :)
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by To Far Away Times »

R-Type Delta.

Walls don't kill you and bullets are slow and easy to read. Threats are well telegraphed. It is a very claustrophobic game in the best way possible. The force pod mechanic doesn't take much thought, and its a player friendly tool.

The presentation is tops too. The game has a nice budget and level of polish to it, it's one of the last hurrah's of big budget shmupping. They don't make 'em like this anymore.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by SavagePencil »

ACA Metal Black?

Setup for auto fire allows you to focus on navigation and positioning. Not a ton of collide-able environment. Very straightforward power-up system.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by jehu »

SavagePencil wrote:ACA Metal Black?

Setup for auto fire allows you to focus on navigation and positioning. Not a ton of collide-able environment. Very straightforward power-up system.
I was actually thinking this, too. It isn't overly complex, the ACA version is new and cheap, the presentation is fantastic and it teaches great hori fundamentals (enemy and space management, dealing with obstacles - but not too many). With practice, it can be made quite manageable - and there are good guides on this site. Especially if you enjoyed your clear of Gaiden, I'd give this one a spin.

I'm a big fan of Operation Ragnarok for the tight NMK pacing. X-Multiply for a well-produced IREM affair. Progear if you want another Cave clear after Deathsmiles.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by To Far Away Times »

^^^

Metal Black is cool. That game has a vibe all its own. It's an interesting "what if" direction the genre could have gone in. Maybe we could have had cinematic hori's instead of bullet hell verts.

X-multiply is awesome. It's a very static, memorization heavy game. On paper it should be easier than R-Type 1 but it took me a surprising amount of effort to clear it. You can't quite rely on the tentacles the same way you can with R-Type's force pod. The second to last stage is a nightmare. Recovery is a lot more doable in X-Multiply, and you can sometimes even wing it a bit and recover back to full strength, but I still approached it as a 1 life clear game.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Steven »

To Far Away Times wrote:Maybe we could have had cinematic hori's instead of bullet hell verts.
You mean Sine Mora? I've heard that game is bad or something.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Starfighter »

To Far Away Times wrote:Metal Black is cool. That game has a vibe all its own. It's an interesting "what if" direction the genre could have gone in. Maybe we could have had cinematic hori's instead of bullet hell verts.
SavagePencil wrote:ACA Metal Black?
I have this one in the Taito collection on PS2, but I've heard that version should be avoided...? Is that true? If so then I'll give the ACA-version a try!
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Herr Schatten »

While we’re discussing the original Gradius, I second the recommendation of the PCE port, but I’d also like to recommend the C64 version (called Nemesis in some regions), done by none other than Konami themselves. Sadly, it lacks music and has very blocky graphics to cram everything into a single load, but it’s a solid port that’s not too difficult and it even features the bonus level from the PCE version.

Speaking of the PC-Engine, don’t forget that it also received a very good port of Parodius Da!. In the arcade version, rank has a tendency to absolutely murder you, but the PCE version has been rebalanced in that regard, thus making it much more approachable and, in my opinion, enjoyable.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Samildanach »

Herr Schatten wrote:While we’re discussing the original Gradius, I second the recommendation of the PCE port, but I’d also like to recommend the C64 version (called Nemesis in some regions), done by none other than Konami themselves. Sadly, it lacks music and has very blocky graphics to cram everything into a single load, but it’s a solid port that’s not too difficult and it even features the bonus level from the PCE version.

Speaking of the PC-Engine, don’t forget that it also received a very good port of Parodius Da!. In the arcade version, rank has a tendency to absolutely murder you, but the PCE version has been rebalanced in that regard, thus making it much more approachable and, in my opinion, enjoyable.

The Gameboy version of Gradius aka Nemesis is a great little game too, with levels and bosses unique to that version. It's where I cut my teeth on the whole shmup genre back in the day. I think the combination of catchy music, tidy visuals, great but not too hard gameplay and a level select for all five levels make it very easy to get into.

Agreed also on Parodius, though hasn't the Super Famicom version also got kinder rank than the arcade too? Oh(!), and it has a superb bathhouse exclusive level as part of the main game, whereas the PC Engine version misses that but has a slightly better separate scoring bonus stage than the Super Famicon's one. The Gameboy version is pretty neat too.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

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Starfighter wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:ACA Metal Black?
I have this one in the Taito collection on PS2, but I've heard that version should be avoided...? Is that true? If so then I'll give the ACA-version a try!
I recently asked the same. Here’s what BIL had to say:
The bomb refocus mechanic doesn't work in TL2. Basically, when you're at MAX power and hit [bomb], you're meant to have the option of condensing the fullscreen blast into a beam, by continuing to hold the button. This is extremely useful, as sometimes you'll want the longer-lived, screen sweeping beam, as opposed to the briefer fullscreen nuke. (sometimes you'll want the opposite, as you cannot begin restoring your shot power until the beam/bomb has run its course; the nuke drains quicker, useful when you're in a hurry to rebuild shot power)

On TL2, this functionality is missing (I guess due to something with how they coded inputs?), so you're limited to just the big bang. It's not what I'd call a fatal flaw, per se... but definitely a major one that you'd need to adapt around, if used to AC.

VING's Saturn version, and ofc ACA, work identically to the PCB.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by To Far Away Times »

Steven wrote:
To Far Away Times wrote:Maybe we could have had cinematic hori's instead of bullet hell verts.
You mean Sine Mora? I've heard that game is bad or something.
No no no, not like that. :)

In my mind there was a small lineage of horizontal shmups that a great cinematic flair.

Metal Black, G-Darius, Einhander, R-Type Delta.

These games are all well regarded and would have little spaces in the levels to show cool background elements or boss closeups, or little presentation elements that made them stand out. R-Type Delta's Stage 5 being my favorite of the lot.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by PerishedFraud ឵឵ »

Lots of mentions of Gradius but no one suggesting Gaiden? It's pretty good and fairly newbie-friendly from what I remember, especially with the right ship.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

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Herr Schatten wrote:Speaking of the PC-Engine, don’t forget that it also received a very good port of Parodius Da!. In the arcade version, rank has a tendency to absolutely murder you, but the PCE version has been rebalanced in that regard, thus making it much more approachable and, in my opinion, enjoyable.
I have that one! If I remember correctly I always make it up to the weird lady and then I start dying, lose my stuff and with that also my interest. I actually thought it was considered a hard game no matter which version. Huh! Perhaps I should give it another chance?
SavagePencil wrote:I recently asked the same. Here’s what BIL had to say:
Thank you SavagePencil and BIL! Sounds like I should absolutely pick up another version. Not having access to all the mechanics of a game is hard for me to accept.
PerishedFraud ឵឵ wrote:Lots of mentions of Gradius but no one suggesting Gaiden? It's pretty good and fairly newbie-friendly from what I remember, especially with the right ship.
Wow, I didn't even know there was a Gradius Gaiden! I'll write that one down!
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Leandro »

Cotton Reboot if you liked Deaths miles.

Satazius is good Gradiua clone

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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Shatterhand »

Starfighter wrote:
PerishedFraud ឵឵ wrote:Lots of mentions of Gradius but no one suggesting Gaiden? It's pretty good and fairly newbie-friendly from what I remember, especially with the right ship.
Wow, I didn't even know there was a Gradius Gaiden! I'll write that one down!
I don't think Gradius Gaiden is an easy one, but its one of the finest games I ever played in my entire life.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by BulletMagnet »

Starfighter wrote:Thank you SavagePencil and BIL! Sounds like I should absolutely pick up another version. Not having access to all the mechanics of a game is hard for me to accept.
Do you have the US version (Taito Legends) or the Japanese one (Taito Memories)? If I recall correctly it's only an issue in the former (someone please set me straight if I got that wrong).

While I'm at it I'll toss another vote in for Gradius Gaiden; it's not a total cake walk, but it was created for home release instead of the arcade (originally the PS1 in Japan, then re-released on the PSP Gradius Collection worldwide), so it's a ways more forgiving on several fronts, most notably in allowing you to rearrange the order of the power-up bar.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by PerishedFraud ឵឵ »

Shatterhand wrote:I don't think Gradius Gaiden is an easy one, but its one of the finest games I ever played in my entire life.
I think it can be pretty easy or a good challenge depending on what you're doing. You can alleviate a lot of the difficulty by giving yourself more utility, like the autoaim weapon or the godmode shield.

And yes, it's so good.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Herr Schatten »

Starfighter wrote:If I remember correctly I always make it up to the weird lady and then I start dying, lose my stuff and with that also my interest. I actually thought it was considered a hard game no matter which version. Huh! Perhaps I should give it another chance?
You definitely should! If you can reach that boss, you’ve already gone 7/9 of the way anyway. Just two more stages to go (since the ice level from the arcade has been cut from the PCE version). As has been mentioned, you could also give the SNES version of the game a spin. It not only has all the stages from the arcade, it also adds an extra bath house stage. I can’t remember offhand how that version compares difficulty-wise, though. At the very least, I’d expect it to have more slowdown.

One important thing to remember about Gradius and Parodius in general is that, unlike in other games, losing all your stuff doesn’t mean you’re screwed, because checkpoints are usually carefully constructed in such a way that recovery is possible. Additionally, dying lowers rank considerably. So if you die and lose all your extras, don’t see it as a punishment, see it as a chance to approach a section where you failed before in a new and different way.

Actually, now that I think about it, I’d like to add Gradius Advance/Galaxies/Generation (whatever it’s called in your region) to the list of beginner friendly games. Its overall difficulty is definitely on the lower end of the series’ scale, plus you can unlock demonstration videos that show for every single checkpoint how to recover from it with minimum resources.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Starfighter »

Shatterhand wrote:I don't think Gradius Gaiden is an easy one, but its one of the finest games I ever played in my entire life.
PerishedFraud ឵឵ wrote:I think it can be pretty easy or a good challenge depending on what you're doing. You can alleviate a lot of the difficulty by giving yourself more utility, like the autoaim weapon or the godmode shield.
So what I can learn from that one is how to prioritize powerups? Suggested games doesn't have to be easy (even if it sure helps), as long as I learn important lessons from them it's all good!
BulletMagnet wrote:Do you have the US version (Taito Legends) or the Japanese one (Taito Memories)? If I recall correctly it's only an issue in the former (someone please set me straight if I got that wrong).

While I'm at it I'll toss another vote in for Gradius Gaiden; it's not a total cake walk, but it was created for home release instead of the arcade (originally the PS1 in Japan, then re-released on the PSP Gradius Collection worldwide), so it's a ways more forgiving on several fronts, most notably in allowing you to rearrange the order of the power-up bar.
That's pretty neat, I feel like that game more and more sounds like the perfect practice game as far as powerup management goes!

I have the PAL version of Taito Legends!
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Shatterhand »

So what I can learn from that one is how to prioritize powerups? Suggested games doesn't have to be easy (even if it sure helps), as long as I learn important lessons from them it's all good!
Dude, if you can play Gradius Gaiden, by all means go for it. I don't think it's easy as the first game, but it is pretty novice-friendly (unlike Gradius 3 or Gradius 4) but, most importantly, it's so damn awesome. And I think it will be great to practice the genre. I remember a friend of mine who never was into shmups at all used to love this game too.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Starfighter wrote:After giving this some thought I came to the conclusion that these things all are related to me not being any good at them. Walls are (almost) always irritating because I run in to them, bullets going sideways are harder for me to read, and of course I'm going to be struggling with weapon combinations and powering up in different ways if I can't manoeuvre the stages without dying all the time.
I've never really understood why people dismiss horizontal games immediately given there's plenty of vertical games with patterns where bullets come at you sideways. There's no real difference in reading the bullets with attacks where the shots come at you horizontally I think, and I don't think the shots in bullet hell horis "read" any differently... I've always thought it's more a case of you're psyching yourself out, but that's just me.

As far as recommendations go, try Harmful Park. Lots of difficulty modes to work up to, weapons are selectable on the fly so you can use whatever you want as the situation demands, no wall collisions (you only die if you somehow get squished on the screen edge which is next to impossible to do by accident), and very fun, generally.

Something like SideLine would be a big step up; it has a lot of floating weapon orbs and powering up requires grabbing the same ones repeatedly to power up. But it also features shields and bombs that provide damage protection against wall collisions so it's much less brutal in terms of wall collisions than the average hori.
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Re: What are some good horizontal shmups for practice?

Post by Rastan78 »

Starfighter wrote:
  • They often have a lot of irritating walls I have to avoid
  • Bullets going sideways are much harder to read
  • They tend to have a lot of powering up management with a ton of stuff to combine
After giving this some thought I came to the conclusion that these things all are related to me not being any good at them. Walls are (almost) always irritating because I run in to them, bullets going sideways are harder for me to read, and of course I'm going to be struggling with weapon combinations and powering up in different ways if I can't manoeuvre the stages without dying all the time.
I think you might want to take another look at your approach here. I don't see the things you listed as major skills you need to focus on. They're sort of abstract and hard to practice specifically. Since you have already 1CC'd a few horis you likely have enough skill in those areas to 1cc many others.

The problem you run into is likely more about routing and memorization. If you have good routes down either by trial and error or watching replays and commit them to muscle memory the other problems you talk about will melt away.

"Reading bullets going sideways"
Here's a really simple example. Take the first boss in Gradius II, the firebird. He has a simple spread shot. Yeah it could be hard to read this pattern and dodge it for a beginner. But an experienced player won't "dodge" it. Just memorize the exact vertical position you need to be in to be safe. IIRC if you think of the nose of the ship as an arrow point it at a spot just below his beak. Now you're camping in the right spot before he even fires every single time. 100% consistency and no effort. Knowledge trumps reflex every time.

Of course this is a very simple example. But try to take that type of approach forward to more complex challenges. Don't focus on building raw skill. Focus on creating routes that are so foolproof they remove any need for skill most of the time. Oddly enough this will create the illusion that you are playing with tons of raw skill lol.

"Power up management"
Again commit this to memory. Stick to the same path every time then you can take worrying about it off the table. Don't think about it on the fly. If you make a change to your routine power up route do so for a specific reason. Lowering rank, need more power by this boss fight etc.

"Walls"
I doubt the main reason you are running into walls is because you lack the input precision to avoid walls. Probably the screen is getting messy with enemies and bullets and that's when it gets hard to focus and an untimely wall splat occurs. Look back at a section and think could I have memorized those enemies and point blanked them before they caused trouble? Should I lurk behind the wall and use it as cover? Should I pass it before or after x, y or z enemy wave? Ask those kinds of questions instead of how do I Git Gud at not smacking walls?

Game choice-
I think the whole good games for beginners thing in shmups is massively overemphasized. For example there aren't fighting games for beginners there are just fighting games. They all have a more or less infinite skill ceiling at the high levels of play.

Most important thing is that you find a game you really like or even love. Then stick with it and set incremental goals within the same game. Really hunkering down with one game at a time and understanding the ins and outs will see you improve. Dabbling in a variety of games and hoping for certain enigmatic shmup skills to majestically blossom forth will only go so far. And trust me I've done both lol
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