R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

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Sima Tuna
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Sima Tuna »

xxx1993 wrote:But what if a PS5 is too expensive?
I think that was the idea.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Sly Cherry Chunks »

Lander wrote:are you sure you didn't misread "R-Type Final 2, new stages" as "R-Type Final, 2 new stages"?
oh shit, you're right.
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xxx1993

Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by xxx1993 »

Then so be it, I'll make getting a PS5 be one of my primary goals for 2023. There goes one of my New Year's Resolutions. Besides, Cygni: All Guns Blazing is also being made for that console, so...
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Samildanach »

Currently there are 13 levels in the base game, so if they are touting 20 in the Final 3 then they must be planning 7 more. Everything is a bit vague though so who knows?
xxx1993

Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by xxx1993 »

What if one of those new stages is an alternate final stage and boss?
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Samildanach »

xxx1993 wrote:What if one of those new stages is an alternate final stage and boss?

Hmm, I would hope they would conclude all the new levels with a final send off level. In some of the brief ending scenes, as the ship drifts forward you can see an utterly black planet that could be the setting of the final sortie. Here's hoping it ends with a suitable bang.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by To Far Away Times »

I have to say taking a level pack from a mulitplatform game like this and moving it away from it's core audience just absolutely sucks. Remember Soul Calibur II with the console exclusive characters, and how Link was on the Gamecube version and despite the GameCube having a relatively small user base, it was the best selling version? Namco followed that up by not putting the sequel where it's audience was which killed it's sales momentum. The end result was that Namco now treats Soul Calibur like shit and they put all their resources and effort into Tekken instead while Soul Calibur gets the scraps and there's a really good chance Soul Calibur 6 was the last game in the series.

The switch has cultivated the vast majority of the Japanese, indie, and shmup audiences that are not available anywhere else. I really don't get the logic in moving the game away from that audience and trying to sell it to an audience interested in playing AAA summer blockbuster games. There's no audience for R-Type Final 3 there, and this isn't the type of game that is going to get people to buy PS5's in any real significant quantity.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Zach Keene »

So given that "R-Type Final 3" was announced as a free update for all platforms ages ago, I see three possibilities here:

1) This has changed and it's now PS5 exclusive.
EDIT: 1a) This has sort of changed and it's now PS5 exclusive for some period of time.
2) This has not changed, but this PS5 thingy includes an extra seven stages on top of whatever Final 3 will be.
3) This has not changed, this PS5 version is just a new native PS5 version with some extra VR silliness and whatever other minor bells and whistles, and the source for this news is just confused.

We'll see I guess, but in the meantime I'm putting my Rpts on 3.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Sima Tuna »

To Far Away Times wrote:I have to say taking a level pack from a mulitplatform game like this and moving it away from it's core audience just absolutely sucks.
Yeah, that happens a lot and it sucks pretty much whenever it does. I remember when Bayonetta went from a $20 budget xbox 360 game to a Nintendies $60 marquee exclusive franchise. The result? I never played Bayo 2. I wasn't willing to buy a wii u and then when the switch version came along, I was unwilling to spend $60 at that time for such an old title.

A similar thing happened with Monster Hunter, although it was kind of understandable. Monster Hunter Freedom Unite was a mega huge hit on the PSP. Well, after that, Monster Hunter received games on the Wii, Ps3 (only in Japan), Wii U and eventually settled on 3ds. None of those system switches made sense except for 3ds. 3ds made sense because it was the next big handheld in the market. So going from PSP to 3ds targeted the same market. But there was a stretch of a few years where Monhun games were coming out on everything except the systems that PSP owners were likely to have.

Of course, nowadays those woes are forgotten and MonHun has been consistently on Nintendo handhelds for ages + is receiving more games on other consoles too. But if you were a monhun player back in the Gen 2 era, if you wanted to jump to Gen 3, you had to buy a new console to do so.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by CMcK »

https://www.siliconera.com/r-type-final ... announced/

Some clarification. The existing Final 2 game will receive an update to become Final 3. Final 3 Evolved is only for PS5 and features additional stages and the VR support.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by PerishedFraud ឵឵ »

Disgusting. I'll make sure to emulate it in 20 years.
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xxx1993

Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by xxx1993 »

Samildanach wrote:
xxx1993 wrote:What if one of those new stages is an alternate final stage and boss?

Hmm, I would hope they would conclude all the new levels with a final send off level. In some of the brief ending scenes, as the ship drifts forward you can see an utterly black planet that could be the setting of the final sortie. Here's hoping it ends with a suitable bang.
If that's the case, then I really do have no choice but to get a PS5.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Astro City II »

That's a really stupid decision to split the userbase they've spent the last three years fostering.

With the Tactics games missing Xbox I really regret supporting Granzella now.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Samildanach »

Hold your horses everyone. Let's see what Granzella actually say themselves, as they are doing a live stream in 14hrs time (as of this message).
I suspect the websites reporting on it are just as fallible as us given the ambiguous information released so far.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Sima Tuna »

It's still really weird to me that they're updating R-Type Final 2 to be "R-Type Final 3" because of some new levels or whatever. Like, I guess Streets of Rage 4 should have been rebranded to Streets of Rage 5 when the Shiva DLC came out? Borderlands 2 should have been called Borderlands 3 around the time Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep hit, which would make the current Borderlands 3 actually Borderlands 4, although you could then update THAT game to Borderlands 5, based on the state of its dlc...
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Lander »

Samildanach wrote:Hold your horses everyone. Let's see what Granzella actually say themselves, as they are doing a live stream in 14hrs time (as of this message).
I suspect the websites reporting on it are just as fallible as us given the ambiguous information released so far.
I'm inclined to echo this. The Siliconera article quotes no new first-hand information, so it's fairly safe to assume that they've seen the tweet and announcement site, seen other bloggers' articles, then done the usual games press thing and tried to one-up them by putting out the same information in different terms plus some extra padding. If there's a stream so soon, it's better to wait for real clarifications to trickle down.

That being said, I do have a knife hidden behind my back just in case.
To Far Away Times wrote:I have to say taking a level pack from a mulitplatform game like this and moving it away from it's core audience just absolutely sucks. Remember Soul Calibur II with the console exclusive characters, and how Link was on the Gamecube version and despite the GameCube having a relatively small user base, it was the best selling version? Namco followed that up by not putting the sequel where it's audience was which killed it's sales momentum. The end result was that Namco now treats Soul Calibur like shit and they put all their resources and effort into Tekken instead while Soul Calibur gets the scraps and there's a really good chance Soul Calibur 6 was the last game in the series.

The switch has cultivated the vast majority of the Japanese, indie, and shmup audiences that are not available anywhere else. I really don't get the logic in moving the game away from that audience and trying to sell it to an audience interested in playing AAA summer blockbuster games. There's no audience for R-Type Final 3 there, and this isn't the type of game that is going to get people to buy PS5's in any real significant quantity.
Broadly speaking, the frustrating yet realist answer is always "money talks".

Take the Epic Games Store situation on PC as an example - in that first big wave of paid exclusives, a significant proportion of studios that took the payout were indies small enough for their reputation to still be on the line. Further to that that, some of those projects came up on crowdfunding money with no stipulation of being platform-locked, thus making the PR position even worse. In the very worst cases, you had studios circling the wagons around their newfound prize and actively telling disgruntled customers to shove their Philip J. Fry money and bugger off.

The unfortunate reality is that when presented with business-changing amounts of cash - a proverbial drop in the ocean for your common or garden multimillion-buck platform holder - smaller studios (and even bigger ones, acknowledging the case of Soul Calibur) will get cartoon dollar signs in their eyes and throw their existing rep, long tail, and customer base to the wayside.

What's worse is that despite a gradually increasing awareness in the gaming noosphere that these practices are bad, they're not considered to be bad business. Perhaps a franchise or studio has to die, but the people behind it get paid and go on to start some other new project - the field is so saturated with content that the long-term customer and art itself have ultimately become disposable in favour of ephemeral publisher farming.

Blegh, what a depressing few paragraphs. Remind me not to do that again :P time to go play Pac Man CE and remember that videogames do still have some life in them.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by To Far Away Times »

One other thing that irks me about this is the preservation aspect. This is a shmup after all, and there's a huge overlap in this community with retro gamers. I like the R-Type series quite a bit, and once I had a few R-Type franchise 1CC's under my belt I thought it'd be a fun challenge to go through all the games. Eventually R-Type Final 2 will not exist, making that impossible to do going forward, unless you can find an un patched Final 2 version.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by pablumatic »

To Far Away Times wrote:One other thing that irks me about this is the preservation aspect. This is a shmup after all, and there's a huge overlap in this community with retro gamers. I like the R-Type series quite a bit, and once I had a few R-Type franchise 1CC's under my belt I thought it'd be a fun challenge to go through all the games. Eventually R-Type Final 2 will not exist, making that impossible to do going forward, unless you can find an un patched Final 2 version.
I do find this idea of Final 3 overwriting Final 2 very strange. The only legit way to play Final 2 would then be unpatched physical copies, or some non-updated digital version that you've managed to keep (good luck trying that).

There of course will be illegitimate ways to play the game, but no fan should have to resort to that.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Samildanach »

pablumatic wrote:
To Far Away Times wrote:One other thing that irks me about this is the preservation aspect. This is a shmup after all, and there's a huge overlap in this community with retro gamers. I like the R-Type series quite a bit, and once I had a few R-Type franchise 1CC's under my belt I thought it'd be a fun challenge to go through all the games. Eventually R-Type Final 2 will not exist, making that impossible to do going forward, unless you can find an un patched Final 2 version.
I do find this idea of Final 3 overwriting Final 2 very strange. The only legit way to play Final 2 would then be unpatched physical copies, or some non-updated digital version that you've managed to keep (good luck trying that).

There of course will be illegitimate ways to play the game, but no fan should have to resort to that.
The original levels will remain available and you can also change the name of the game that appears on the title screen to whatever you want, so I don't think the original version is being overwritten.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Lander »

I think the 'service game' aspect of becoming a platform for ongoing post-release content kind of puts paid to the absolute preservation angle unless someone's been obsessive enough to catalogue an archivable version with each individual update. There's a whole sphere of concern related to more obviously service-gamey free-to-play stuff, but it can be felt in any game that gets major content updates over its long tail.

Though with the granularity of modern game patches, it does start to beg the question of how viable that's going to be once the platforms it was released on have their backend servers taken offline. I imagine best-case, a final patched up version would be made available so customers don't lose their library, but that's never a guarantee.

The only exception I can think of off the top of my head would be PS3, since Sony were big brain enough to host the entirety of its PSN content - games, individual patches, the lot - on freely-accessible public FTP servers for the internet to archive en masse :o
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Redfox »

m.sniffles.esq wrote:
Let me know when there's a PC release, especially since I don't have a PS5.
Spoiler
no one does
Uh, I own one? So does my neighbor, so does 3 coworkers.... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

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To Far Away Times wrote:
The switch has cultivated the vast majority of the Japanese, indie, and shmup audiences that are not available anywhere else. I really don't get the logic in moving the game away from that audience and trying to sell it to an audience interested in playing AAA summer blockbuster games. There's no audience for R-Type Final 3 there, and this isn't the type of game that is going to get people to buy PS5's in any real significant quantity.
Same thing happened with Street Fighter V being PS4 exclusive, despite it having a larger user base on Xbox INCLUDING tournament play that lasted for years with SF 4....

Maybe Sony threw money at Granzella for this? It smells like something they would do specifically to get some of that Audience that abandoned Playstation back?

And on that SF V thing that was a MUCH larger game than Rtype..............that pissed off half the freaking fanbase...
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Steven »

To Far Away Times wrote:One other thing that irks me about this is the preservation aspect. This is a shmup after all, and there's a huge overlap in this community with retro gamers. I like the R-Type series quite a bit, and once I had a few R-Type franchise 1CC's under my belt I thought it'd be a fun challenge to go through all the games. Eventually R-Type Final 2 will not exist, making that impossible to do going forward, unless you can find an un patched Final 2 version.
Just go get it on GOG, as you can download the older versions of games, so you can freely revert from Final 3 to any version of Final 2, but I don't think this is an issue at all if Final 3 has everything Final 2 has and at exactly the same level of quality.

Or maybe GOG actually doesn't let you do this anymore, but in that case, just go get a console copy and unplug your ethernet cable or whatever and play it that way so it won't/can't update.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Zach Keene »

https://store.nisamerica.com/r-type-ser ... dition-ps5
NISA wrote:R-Type® Final 3 Evolved includes PS5™ exclusive stages created by Kazuma Kujo
Welp, so much for my option 3.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by SPM »

They sure are milking this. I'm glad I was waiting until we have a true final version (Final 4? 5? 27? xD). Then I'll get it, probably... Not so interested anymore.

(not sure if I'll buy it at that point though, this thing is ridiculous. Certainly not the business model I want to support for this genre)
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Rastan78 »

Console exclusive stages for a shmup? That's very sad.

I notice there hasn't been a single high score submission in the Final 2 thread here. Just empty tables. When you have a confusing mess of DLC and unlockables and now lack of content parity between versions how can you have any good competition?
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

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So according to the stream, non-PS5 consoles will still get the promised Final 3 update which includes future updates and new stages. The PS5 Evolved version will have further new stages exclusive to that, so I guess we are not being denied what they had previously promised. To be fair, what we have had so far is pretty generous and above and beyond what was initially laid out (e.g. the 100 ships stretch goal had not been reached).

The stream: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FDk4QknYk9c

I intend to buy a PS5 one day, so I just hope they offer an upgrade path (for a fee would be fine) for Final 3 Evolved, rather than have to buy the whole game again. Also the dlc for Final 2 better work for Final 3 as having to buy all them again would definitely be taking the piss.

On a more universally positive note the dlc set 9 looks awesome:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JYhisV7h2TU

R-Type Stage 4 looking pretty snazzy, Delta Stage 6 being suitably nightmarish and Image Fight's Stage 7 AND 8 being a very well chosen send off.
Also, for those who have bought set 8, you get a fourth Stage in the form of Final's Stage 7.1. It acts as an alternative 7th stage for the Z set of levels (the latest dlc 3 sets). Very pleased with that!
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Untitled1 »

Image

Image

https://store.nisamerica.com/r-type-fin ... dition-ps5

NiS is publishing in the west again, with a collector's edition. The keychain light is neat, but i'll just get the standard edition.
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Warp_Rattler »

SPM wrote:They sure are milking this. I'm glad I was waiting until we have a true final version (Final 4? 5? 27? xD). Then I'll get it, probably... Not so interested anymore.
I bought the physical game on release and enjoyed it long enough to credit-feed through a clear and a significant number of unlocks, but my enthusiasm dropped off hard at the unending trickle of DLC (which currently costs as much as the base game, if you want all the current stage passes) and the relative inaccessibility of a clear, consistent, and easily-available roadmap for the future of the game.
(not sure if I'll buy it at that point though, this thing is ridiculous. Certainly not the business model I want to support for this genre)
I think what's so frustrating about this is that, at least from the discussion in the other Final 2 thread, the DLC stages really seem to be an integral part of the overall game experience. I stopped keeping track but at this point it seems like there is almost as much content from the DLC as in the base game, and that both makes the DLC feel more essential to whatever R-Type Final 2/2.5/3/XX Slash Plus Alpha' was ultimately supposed to be, and makes the game's initial release feel more compromised and incomplete. Criticism of the "nickel-and-diming through DLC that arguably should have been part of the base game" model is nothing remotely new in the AAA sphere but it's really disappointing to see here--especially given the sense that the devs themselves are maybe just flying by the seat of their pants with a lot of the long-term planning.
Samildanach wrote:So according to the stream, non-PS5 consoles will still get the promised Final 3 update which includes future updates and new stages.
Did they mention whether this will have a package release? Does Final 3 Evolved include the existing stage pass DLC, or will that remain separate (and separate from the Final 3 update for existing platforms)?
pablumatic wrote:
To Far Away Times wrote:One other thing that irks me about this is the preservation aspect. This is a shmup after all, and there's a huge overlap in this community with retro gamers. I like the R-Type series quite a bit, and once I had a few R-Type franchise 1CC's under my belt I thought it'd be a fun challenge to go through all the games. Eventually R-Type Final 2 will not exist, making that impossible to do going forward, unless you can find an un patched Final 2 version.
I do find this idea of Final 3 overwriting Final 2 very strange. The only legit way to play Final 2 would then be unpatched physical copies, or some non-updated digital version that you've managed to keep (good luck trying that).
I do buy my share of physical releases to future-proof games that I enjoy (I won't go as far as to say it's any sort of formal attempt at "preservation"), but I'm genuinely curious in this case: what would the advantage be of having an unpatched Final 2 version, anyway? There were some massive updates early on in the game's life that really fixed a lot of performance issues, and my overwhelming impression is that the updates and such constitute the most desirable version of the game. Is there anything I've missed that's been removed or otherwise negatively changed by the updates? I don't get the impression that it's like some of those updates that remove or break interesting scoring mechanics or whatever (I thought there was one Cave title that was infamous for its later "fixed" revisions being less desirable than the initial release, but I may be mis-remembering that), and my boxed copy on the shelf just feels like an incomplete early version. I get (in theory) the argument for preservation of various versions, from an archival perspective, but honestly and sincerely: what is worth preserving in the original, unpatched Final 2?
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Re: R-Type Final 3 Evolved announced for PS5.

Post by Lander »

The NIS site has a couple more tidbits:

Experience the return of the legendary side-scroller series, now on PS5™! R-Type Final 3 Evolved brings the explosive R-Type Final 2 action onto the PS5™ in Unreal Engine 5, and includes all the DLC stages from Stage Pass 1, along with unreleased bonus stages, making this a must-have title for new and veteran shoot-'em-up fans alike.

The UE5 part seems to have flown under the radar so far, and seems like a fairly significant bulletpoint. Though for my money, GZ need better technical art, not a better renderer to draw it with.

But on the confirmed exclusivity for the new stages... Great. Nothing says "we love our fans" quite like twisting their collective arms into rebuying the same game on a new system to get the full experience.
It was bullshit when Square pulled it with FF7 Intergrade, and it's bullshit here; possibly moreso given that we've already been milked for a year, but FF7 has the "legendary nostalgia game" thing going on so it's swings and roundabouts.

It's also stingy for Evolved to only include DLC set 1 as a pack-in. It would have been a much better value proposition to take the traditional next-gen-rerelease approach and include all existing content, then make Evolved a proper paid expansion.
Warp_Rattler wrote:I think what's so frustrating about this is that, at least from the discussion in the other Final 2 thread, the DLC stages really seem to be an integral part of the overall game experience.
Somewhat, yes. The main course was always a bit rough in places (Stage 3: Untextured AI Factory, Stage 6.1: Unknown Low-Res Ruins, Stage 7.1: Get Shot By The Skybox...), and has started feeling quite ancilliary since the DLC ramped up.

For instance, the route-switching pod on stage 5 always dropped 4 pickups, but only ever branched 3 ways. They then patched another 4-way pod into stage 5 that only branches 2 ways. So instead of having 1 mysterious stage-unaccounted-for - in a master stroke of putting the cart before the horse - we now have 3 :)

Or the way the DLC stages can be used to mitigate the awful grind they added by opting for the R-Type Tactics resource-based upgrade system instead of the flight time-based one from Final 1 - the DLC packs each add one-time resource injections to the shop, and have a flat reward multiplier on every stage so you can switch things up without knowingly capping your R-Museum progress.

Unfortunately even with those tweaks it still sucks, because optimal unlockage means grinding the shortest stage (R-Type 1 Battleship) over and over again and missing a run's worth of resources if you screw up. You do at least have the option of playing something else to break the monotony without knowingly hobbling yourself, but it's a band-aid rather than a solution.
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