Toaplan games coming to PC (Steam, GOG)

[reckon luck]

I rebought the collection because the devs have shown signs of sincerity. The critical problems aren't fixed yet but I'm choosing to trust them.

[Leandro]

They are really polite also. Some people seem angry at them on Steam forums and they just replied gracefully, but without ignoring the issue, their releases are closer to ports than emulation. They also prefer to release patch often, that's why the big fixes aren't out yet.

[EmperorIng]

I thought that the Astro Shitty 2 thread was one of the modern classics of shmupsfarm but this thread has successfully challenged that for dominance.

[MJR]

I thought that the Astro Shitty 2 thread was one of the modern classics of shmupsfarm but this thread has successfully challenged that for dominance.

?

[Leandro]

I thought that the Astro Shitty 2 thread was one of the modern classics of shmupsfarm but this thread has successfully challenged that for dominance.

Uh?

Enviado de meu 2201116SG usando o Tapatalk

[apatheticTurd]

New patch out. Claims to have WIP improvements for sound but can't verify yet.

Out Zone

Choose your framerate: 60 Hz or original for authentic feeling
Insert coin option: Enable or disable the classic arcade start screen
COIN button added to controllers
Settings bug fixed: Full screen display / resolution and refresh rate saved correctly
Border art fix: Enabling border tutorial will no longer enable border art
Scanline save settings fix: Scanline settings are now saved correctly and a restore default option has been added
Practice Mode bug fixed: The game doesn't get stuck in Practice Mode after resetting
Raw Input Button Icons: Additional button icons added for common game controllers
Sound quality fix: Improvement by better frame rate control
Practice Mode improvement: Speed Pickup Option added
Sound quality improvements (Work in Progress)
Added an option to restore game defaults (zero all DIP switches)
Truxton

Choose your framerate: 60 Hz or original for authentic feeling
Insert coin option: Enable or disable the classic arcade start screen
COIN button added to controllers
Settings bug fixed: Full screen display / resolution and refresh rate saved correctly
Border art fix: Enabling border tutorial will no longer enable border art
Scanline save settings fix: Scanline settings are now saved correctly and a restore default option has been added
Raw Input Button Icons: Additional button icons added for common game controllers
Sound quality fix: Improvement by better frame rate control
Practice Mode improvement: Speed Pickup Option added
Sound quality improvements (Work in Progress)
Added an option to restore game defaults (zero all DIP switches)
Zero Wing

Choose your framerate: 60 Hz or original for authentic feeling
Insert coin option: Enable or disable the classic arcade start screen
COIN button added to controllers
Settings bug fixed: Full screen display / resolution and refresh rate saved correctly
Border art fix: Enabling border tutorial will no longer enable border art
Scanline save settings fix: Scanline settings are now saved correctly and a restore default option has been added
HUD issues fixed
Raw Input Button Icons: Additional button icons added for common game controllers
Sound quality fix: Improvement by better frame rate control
Practice Mode improvement: Speed Pickup Option added
Sound quality improvements (Work in Progress)
Added an option to restore game defaults (zero all DIP switches)
Twin Cobra

Choose your framerate: 60 Hz or original for authentic feeling
Insert coin option: Enable or disable the classic arcade start screen
COIN button added to controllers
Settings bug fixed: Full screen display / resolution and refresh rate saved correctly
Border art fix: Enabling border tutorial will no longer enable border art
Scanline save settings fix: Scanline settings are now saved correctly and a restore default option has been added
High score fix: Correct score shown on screen at start
Auto Fire bug fix: The feature is no longer disabled while invulnerable after losing a life
Extra Life Setting fix: Now correctly set based on the game version
Raw Input Button Icons: Additional button icons added for common game controllers
Sound quality fix: Improvement by better frame rate control
Sound quality improvements (Work in Progress)
Added an option to restore game defaults (zero all DIP switches

[Steven]

Damn, I was typing this and you ninja'd me! Oh well. Looks like they added some more stuff that I sent to them like the PCB refresh rates, DIP switch reset, and the speed items in practice mode. Seems they are listening after all. Hopefully the normal ROM for Out Zone will get added soon.

I was going to play Ray'z and Kamui, but it looks like I will go test Toaplan stuff once again instead.

Alright, I still can't get Out Zone to sync with the PCB; even using the "original" speed option it still runs too fast. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I'll see if I can figure it out. My FPS counter still says 60FPS even in original speed. Maybe I have some sort of vsync set up in the Nvidia control panel or something. Edit: nope, I do not.

I don't know. I don't get it. It's still too fast and I don't know why. The music stays in sync with the PCB but the game itself still runs too fast.

[mrsmr2]

I had a quick play with Outzone and choosing original speed makes the scrolling a little jerky compared to 60 (as expected).

Time to death after pressing start to skip the opening movie:
52 seconds with original speed
48 seconds with 60

So there is some difference. This is with the GoG version.

[Steven]

You are right. I tested the two refresh rates against each other just now and it is slower at original. Still oddly does not match the PCB, though. No matter how many times I try it I still run out of energy about a second or two earlier on PC than on the PCB. The difference is no longer as great, but they still diverge.

[RVY]

Unfortunately, still doesn't work safe spot stages 5 and 10 boss. (Kyūkyoku Tiger)
Stages 5 boss safe spot video / Stages 10 boss safe spot video
also, numbers in practice mode should start at 1...
However, the developers are trying their best. They seem to be motivated to do even more. I'm looking forward to future updates.

[DietSoap]

You are right. I tested the two refresh rates against each other just now and it is slower at original. Still oddly does not match the PCB, though. No matter how many times I try it I still run out of energy about a second or two earlier on PC than on the PCB. The difference is no longer as great, but they still diverge.

Since mrsmr2 is logging a 4 second difference, which is approximately the same difference Jaimers was logging between it and MAME (0:47 vs 0:51 in the link below), I'm wondering if this means there's a noticeable difference in runspeed between MAME and the PCB. Is that something you can test? Alternatively, could the remaining difference simply be down to this beta version of Outzone used by Bitwave vs the complete version on your PCB? Or is time until death the same between both versions of the game?

https://twitter.com/JaimersSTG/status/1 ... 30086?s=20

[Steven]

Well, I tested on MAME and I got some super weird results. I don't know how to configure MAME properly, so maybe that is the reason, but I don't know.

I used the regular ROM on MAME, the one just labelled Out Zone. At first MAME seemed to run slightly faster than the PCB. Then I took a shower. Once I got out of the shower, the PCB was ahead of MAME by about 4 or 5 seconds. MAME might not be handling the slowdown in the attract mode properly; if you've ever played Out Zone in multiplayer on PCB, you know that the game is basically in a constant state of slowdown due to both players shooting so much. Since the attract mode shows multiplayer, maybe MAME doesn't do the slowdown correctly, causing it to fall behind. I don't know. I can try again, but I will likely get the same results.

I am now testing again. This time I intentionally pressed start on MAME about a second before I pressed it on the Astro. I will let it sit for ~20 minutes or so and see if the PCB catches up to MAME.

Oh shit that didn't take long at all! The PCB passed MAME within about a minute of me typing that! Yeah, MAME doesn't run Out Zone at the proper speed, or at the least this specific ROM doesn't run at the proper speed.

Here are the contents of my .ini, in case it matters.

Spoiler

#
# CORE CONFIGURATION OPTIONS
#
readconfig 1
writeconfig 0

#
# CORE SEARCH PATH OPTIONS
#
homepath .
rompath roms
hashpath hash
samplepath samples
artpath artwork
ctrlrpath ctrlr
inipath .;ini;ini/presets
fontpath .
cheatpath cheat
crosshairpath crosshair
pluginspath plugins
languagepath language
swpath software

#
# CORE OUTPUT DIRECTORY OPTIONS
#
cfg_directory cfg
nvram_directory nvram
input_directory inp
state_directory sta
snapshot_directory snap
diff_directory diff
comment_directory comments
share_directory share

#
# CORE STATE/PLAYBACK OPTIONS
#
state
autosave 0
rewind 0
rewind_capacity 100
playback
record
exit_after_playback 0
mngwrite
aviwrite
wavwrite
snapname %g/%i
snapsize auto
snapview auto
snapbilinear 1
statename %g
burnin 0

#
# CORE PERFORMANCE OPTIONS
#
autoframeskip 0
frameskip 0
seconds_to_run 0
throttle 1
sleep 1
speed 1.0
refreshspeed 0
lowlatency 1

#
# CORE RENDER OPTIONS
#
keepaspect 1
unevenstretch 0
unevenstretchx 0
unevenstretchy 0
autostretchxy 0
intoverscan 0
intscalex 0
intscaley 0

#
# CORE ROTATION OPTIONS
#
rotate 1
ror 0
rol 0
autoror 0
autorol 0
flipx 0
flipy 0

#
# CORE ARTWORK OPTIONS
#
artwork_crop 0
fallback_artwork
override_artwork

#
# CORE SCREEN OPTIONS
#
brightness 1.0
contrast 1.0
gamma 1.0
pause_brightness 0.65
effect none

#
# CORE VECTOR OPTIONS
#
beam_width_min 1.0
beam_width_max 1.0
beam_dot_size 1.0
beam_intensity_weight 0
flicker 0

#
# CORE SOUND OPTIONS
#
samplerate 48000
samples 1
volume 0
compressor 1
speaker_report 0

#
# CORE INPUT OPTIONS
#
coin_lockout 1
ctrlr
mouse 0
joystick 1
lightgun 0
multikeyboard 0
multimouse 0
steadykey 0
ui_active 0
offscreen_reload 0
joystick_map auto
joystick_deadzone 0.3
joystick_saturation 0.85
natural 0
joystick_contradictory 0
coin_impulse 0

#
# CORE INPUT AUTOMATIC ENABLE OPTIONS
#
paddle_device keyboard
adstick_device keyboard
pedal_device keyboard
dial_device keyboard
trackball_device keyboard
lightgun_device keyboard
positional_device keyboard
mouse_device mouse

#
# CORE DEBUGGING OPTIONS
#
verbose 0
log 0
oslog 0
debug 0
update_in_pause 0
debugscript
debuglog 0

#
# CORE COMM OPTIONS
#
comm_localhost 0.0.0.0
comm_localport 15112
comm_remotehost 127.0.0.1
comm_remoteport 15112
comm_framesync 0

#
# CORE MISC OPTIONS
#
drc 1
drc_use_c 0
drc_log_uml 0
drc_log_native 0
bios
cheat 0
skip_gameinfo 0
uifont default
ui cabinet
ramsize
confirm_quit 0
ui_mouse 1
language
nvram_save 1

#
# SCRIPTING OPTIONS
#
autoboot_command
autoboot_delay 0
autoboot_script
console 0
plugins 1
plugin
noplugin

#
# HTTP SERVER OPTIONS
#
http 0
http_port 8080
http_root web

#
# OSD KEYBOARD MAPPING OPTIONS
#
uimodekey auto

#
# OSD FONT OPTIONS
#
uifontprovider auto

#
# OSD OUTPUT OPTIONS
#
output auto

#
# OSD INPUT OPTIONS
#
keyboardprovider auto
mouseprovider auto
lightgunprovider auto
joystickprovider auto

#
# OSD DEBUGGING OPTIONS
#
debugger auto
debugger_port 23946
debugger_font auto
debugger_font_size 0
watchdog 0

#
# OSD PERFORMANCE OPTIONS
#
numprocessors auto
bench 0

#
# OSD VIDEO OPTIONS
#
video gdi
numscreens 1
window 0
maximize 1
waitvsync 0
syncrefresh 0
monitorprovider auto

#
# OSD PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS
#
screen auto
aspect auto
resolution auto
view auto
screen0 auto
aspect0 auto
resolution0 auto
view0 auto
screen1 auto
aspect1 auto
resolution1 auto
view1 auto
screen2 auto
aspect2 auto
resolution2 auto
view2 auto
screen3 auto
aspect3 auto
resolution3 auto
view3 auto

#
# OSD FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
#
switchres 0

#
# OSD ACCELERATED VIDEO OPTIONS
#
filter 0
prescale 1

#
# OpenGL-SPECIFIC OPTIONS
#
gl_forcepow2texture 0
gl_notexturerect 0
gl_vbo 1
gl_pbo 1
gl_glsl 0
gl_glsl_filter 1
glsl_shader_mame0 none
glsl_shader_mame1 none
glsl_shader_mame2 none
glsl_shader_mame3 none
glsl_shader_mame4 none
glsl_shader_mame5 none
glsl_shader_mame6 none
glsl_shader_mame7 none
glsl_shader_mame8 none
glsl_shader_mame9 none
glsl_shader_screen0 none
glsl_shader_screen1 none
glsl_shader_screen2 none
glsl_shader_screen3 none
glsl_shader_screen4 none
glsl_shader_screen5 none
glsl_shader_screen6 none
glsl_shader_screen7 none
glsl_shader_screen8 none
glsl_shader_screen9 none

#
# OSD SOUND OPTIONS
#
sound auto
audio_latency 2

#
# PORTAUDIO OPTIONS
#
pa_api none
pa_device none
pa_latency 0

#
# BGFX POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
bgfx_path bgfx
bgfx_backend auto
bgfx_debug 0
bgfx_screen_chains default
bgfx_shadow_mask slot-mask.png
bgfx_lut lut-default.png
bgfx_avi_name auto

#
# WINDOWS PERFORMANCE OPTIONS
#
priority 0
profile 0

#
# WINDOWS VIDEO OPTIONS
#
menu 0
attach_window

#
# DIRECT3D POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
hlslpath hlsl
hlsl_enable 0
hlsl_oversampling 0
hlsl_write auto
hlsl_snap_width 2048
hlsl_snap_height 1536
shadow_mask_tile_mode 0
shadow_mask_alpha 0.0
shadow_mask_texture shadow-mask.png
shadow_mask_x_count 6
shadow_mask_y_count 4
shadow_mask_usize 0.1875
shadow_mask_vsize 0.25
shadow_mask_uoffset 0.0
shadow_mask_voffset 0.0
distortion 0.0
cubic_distortion 0.0
distort_corner 0.0
round_corner 0.0
smooth_border 0.0
reflection 0.0
vignetting 0.0
scanline_alpha 0.0
scanline_size 1.0
scanline_height 1.0
scanline_variation 1.0
scanline_bright_scale 1.0
scanline_bright_offset 0.0
scanline_jitter 0.0
hum_bar_alpha 0.0
defocus 0.0,0.0
converge_x 0.0,0.0,0.0
converge_y 0.0,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_x 0.0,0.0,0.0
radial_converge_y 0.0,0.0,0.0
red_ratio 1.0,0.0,0.0
grn_ratio 0.0,1.0,0.0
blu_ratio 0.0,0.0,1.0
saturation 1.0
offset 0.0,0.0,0.0
scale 1.0,1.0,1.0
power 1.0,1.0,1.0
floor 0.0,0.0,0.0
phosphor_life 0.0,0.0,0.0
chroma_mode 3
chroma_conversion_gain 0.299,0.587,0.114
chroma_a 0.64,0.33
chroma_b 0.30,0.60
chroma_c 0.15,0.06
chroma_y_gain 0.2126,0.7152,0.0722

#
# NTSC POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
yiq_enable 0
yiq_jitter 0.0
yiq_cc 3.57954545
yiq_a 0.5
yiq_b 0.5
yiq_o 0.0
yiq_p 1.0
yiq_n 1.0
yiq_y 6.0
yiq_i 1.2
yiq_q 0.6
yiq_scan_time 52.6
yiq_phase_count 2

#
# VECTOR POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
vector_beam_smooth 0.0
vector_length_scale 0.5
vector_length_ratio 0.5

#
# BLOOM POST-PROCESSING OPTIONS
#
bloom_blend_mode 0
bloom_scale 0.0
bloom_overdrive 1.0,1.0,1.0
bloom_lvl0_weight 1.0
bloom_lvl1_weight 0.64
bloom_lvl2_weight 0.32
bloom_lvl3_weight 0.16
bloom_lvl4_weight 0.08
bloom_lvl5_weight 0.06
bloom_lvl6_weight 0.04
bloom_lvl7_weight 0.02
bloom_lvl8_weight 0.01
lut_texture lut-default.png
lut_enable 0
ui_lut_texture lut-default.png
ui_lut_enable 0

#
# FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
#
triplebuffer 0
full_screen_brightness 1.0
full_screen_contrast 1.0
full_screen_gamma 1.0

#
# INPUT DEVICE OPTIONS
#
global_inputs 0
dual_lightgun 0

[MJR]

Most of the emulation I've played hardly matches my original PCB's 100%. That should hardly be surprising. I would also argue that none of the ports or emulation has ever given me as satisfying experience as playing on original hardware. So I'm not sure if there is much point on measuring seconds of difference.

I'll wait for them to reconstruct their Out Zone port to match the normal rom on Mame, as that's what they at least seem to be doing, then I'll consider repurchasing. I'm glad that they keep at it.

[Steven]

Yeah, that is why I don't like or trust most emulators at all and prefer the real thing or nothing, or M2 because I know they'll do a good job with their emulation, like they did with Ray'z this week. Same with Hamster, as those guys are great too.

[spmbx]

I'll wait for them to reconstruct their Out Zone port to match the normal rom on Mame, as that's what they at least seem to be doing, then I'll consider repurchasing. I'm glad that they keep at it.

Given the price, sales numbers for a nice genre, and costs involved in having people work at it, i do wonder if the numbers add up if it's as much work as they claim it is. I'd be surprised if it gets fixed up but we'll see i guess.

[MJR]

I'll wait for them to reconstruct their Out Zone port to match the normal rom on Mame, as that's what they at least seem to be doing, then I'll consider repurchasing. I'm glad that they keep at it.

Given the price, sales numbers for a nice genre, and costs involved in having people work at it, i do wonder if the numbers add up if it's as much work as they claim it is. I'd be surprised if it gets fixed up but we'll see i guess.

If it's more of a port as they say, I must assume that they have disassembled the code. I am not a programmer, but I've understood for some time it is possible now to turn machine code back into programming language by using pattern recognition, but the caveat is you still may not be able to get any useful information, like function names or commenting. And lot of old 80's / 90's code can be essentially esoteric spaghetti where things are not always organized in the way you would expect, not to mention any crazy hacks or optimization which even the original programmer may not be able to recall any more.

So I would have to guess that they must do the same disassembling to the original rom, and then go through the same procedures to compile it so that it will run through their hardware emulator. I can't imagine any other viable way to do it. Port-from-scratch is clearly not an option, even Irem struggled to port their R-type faithfully to PS1 (they stated this in Edge magazine interview).

[Steven]

Reminds me of an interview with Joker Jun that I found from around the time of ESP Ra.De. (or was it Progear? I forgot...) where he said that it was likely that there was still some leftover code from Out Zone still being used at CAVE. I wonder what percentage of any given post-Out Zone Toaplan or CAVE game consists of Out Zone code.

Pretty sure that interview was on Gamengai, so it's going to be hard to find now without looking through archives.

Edit: found it, and it was actually post-Daioujou: https://web.archive.org/web/20191122014 ... =1301&p=13

"-It seems conversely that developing vertical STGs is fun, but much is appropriated from old programming.

Inoue: It seems there's a lot of modifying of old things and adding things here and there. Only partially, but they say parts of Outzone's code are still used."

[Steven]

Out Zone good ROM is here! Edit: maybe not...

Cool, Kyuukyoku Tiger/Twin Cobra widescreen mode is apparently improved and all games got audio fixes. Time to check out the fixes.

Well shit, this still seems to be a strange version of Out Zone, as the door on the ship still doesn't open and it looks like at least one item box is missing on stage 2. This is labeled as the "common" ROM instead of being the "normal" ROM... if it's the most common, that would make it the normal version of the game, but since it's still different from the ROM on my PCB, I don't know what to say. I'm too lazy to go through all of the ROMs on MAME to see which one this is right now, but maybe I will do it later. For now I am going to check stage 2 on my PCB and see if I am going insane or if there is actually a missing item box.

edit: yep, it's missing.

The audio is better in some ways but worse in others; the tempo generally seems to be better, but Kyuukyoku Tiger's music is now the wrong pitch somehow. Edit: or maybe not... weird. I tried it again and it's fine now. Not sure what's up with that.

I don't even know anymore. I switched to Twin Cobra and the pitch was off again, then I closed it and now everything seems to be fine. Someone else please test this to make sure I'm not going crazy...

Most sound effects in Out Zone still seem broken, too.

Kyuukyoku Tiger stage 10 boss safespot is still broken, but at least the training mode actually put me in the proper stage at the proper location on the first attempt this time.

Have not tested the other games yet, but I'll get around to it eventually.

lol oh no, enemy spawn locations in Twin Cobra are now fucked. Um... yeah.

Good news: Zero Wing 1P HUD glitch is fixed! Yay! That wasn't in the patch notes, so I wonder what else there is that isn't in there.

[MJR]

I repurchased and tested Out Zone, I set it on 'common' and 'europe' and played to fourth level. Everything seemed to be in order for me, it was pretty close to my Mame experience so I was almost satisfied.

Almost, because the difficulty settings were WAY above to what I have been use to have on Mame. I lowered the difficulty to 'B', and the enemy projectiles were still much faster and their behaviour felt more aggressive. Also, in the part with moving platforms, the enemy soldiers just keep coming and coming which meant that I was no longer able to wait until they stop appearing. There is something strange going on with the difficulty, but since I don't own the PCB it's hard for me to say what.

I was also able to generate zero wing bonus, which was nice - but it's still a huge shame that achievements are not granted to that or bringing that creature alive to the end in the first level.

Also, some other strange little behaviours: the power ball weapon was strangely absent. Usually I will see it at least once. And I got 1-up bonus two times - it should only appear once in a loop.

On the intro screen when the game starts, you can't see the player character emerging from the ship and the text is still the one that is present in the old rom. So, it seems to me that they just simply transferred bits of code from the 'normal' rom set into this 'common' version, quite a frankenstein procedure.

But the minor niggles aside, if the difficulty settings get patched, I could see myself playing this now.

[Steven]

I actually saw the 1UP twice on one loop on my PCB an hour ago. Yeah, I am not sure how, but it happened. The chances of it are probably extremely low, but I got it twice on stage 2, once at the beginning and once near the end. I have never seen it happen before, so I am super confused. I think I should start looking into some way to record from my PCBs at this point.

As for this new Out Zone "common" ROM, I am not sure what version this is. I'd have to do some checking with MAME, but it's an odd version of the game for sure.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

Well, that's better.

But it's still not quite on the mark, lol.

If anything though, it shows that they're willing to put in work to improve things. So that's nice.

[Steven]

Now that I think about it again, maybe the double 1UP item is a glitch. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen Out Zone do something strange, like that time when I suddenly exploded for no reason with nothing else on the screen at all, and a friend who has the PCB as well also said he's seen it do weird stuff. Maybe Out Zone in general has some problems or something.

Anyway, I'm super interested to check out this supposed common ROM and see how common it is, as I have never seen it before as far as I know.

It seems that this new common ROM might be what MAME calls the older set. Uh... okay. I didn't do any super detailed comparisons, but it does have the dropship door not open and it's missing the item box, so it might be this revision. I was really hoping for the actual normal/regular/common version of the game, not an incomplete prototype and this older slightly incomplete version, but this is a start. I guess.

[SavagePencil]

Pretty cool how they’ve got a free QA team.

[BIL]

^ ;-;7

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

The same could be said of all religions

[SavagePencil]

The same could be said of all religions

Touché. And to be fair I haven’t seen any religion patches released in recent history.

[Sengoku Strider]

The same could be said of all religions

Touché. And to be fair I haven’t seen any religion patches released in recent history.

Check your update preferences, you're probably missing a bunch. And some of the DLC has been fucking wild.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

Zardoz was on to something

[SavagePencil]

And I didn’t mean to be glib there. These drips-and-drabs of patches are great, but it ensures the community is going to go chasing after spurious threads. What would be best is if the publisher could communicate a vision of what they WANT to achieve so we can see how they are progressing towards it. This would ensure we’re not trying to crystal ball our way through bullshit like what they mean by the “common” ROM.

[MJR]

And I didn’t mean to be glib there. These drips-and-drabs of patches are great, but it ensures the community is going to go chasing after spurious threads. What would be best is if the publisher could communicate a vision of what they WANT to achieve so we can see how they are progressing towards it. This would ensure we’re not trying to crystal ball our way through bullshit like what they mean by the “common” ROM.

It means: "We implemented what was to us the better version, but then found out that most of the peons had been playing another version, so we implemented stuff from that and called it the 'common' version as that's what most of the people seem to have been playing. But we will stick to our best version as the 'normal' rom, because who cares what Mame says, it's built up by amateurs anyway".

Well, I don't know if they really think like that, but that's how it looks like outside.