BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PoFV)

This is the main shmups forum. Chat about shmups in here - keep it on-topic please!
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13897
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PoFV)

Post by BulletMagnet »

...you know what, heck with it, I'm doing this.

R= Title & Version & Cleared & Score & Stage & Character R= Embodiment of Scarlet Devil & 1.02h & [color=lime]Yes![/color] & 106,388,540 & ALL & Marisa B R= Perfect Cherry Blossom & 1.00b & [color=lime]Yes![/color] & 456,155,300 & ALL & Reimu B R= Imperishable Night & 1.00d & [color=lime]Yes![/color] & 976,925,460 & ALL-A & Reimu/Yukari R= Phantasmagoria of Flower View & 150a & [color=red]No[/color] & 44,314,070 & 9 & Youmu R= Mountain of Faith & 1.00a & [color=lime]Yes![/color] & 199,567,930 & ALL & Reimu A R= Subterranian Animism & 1.00a & [color=red]No[/color] & 0 & - & - R= Undefined Fantastic Object & 1.00b & [color=red]No[/color] & 0 & - & - R= Ten Desires & 1.00c & [color=red]No[/color] & 0 & - & - R= Double Dealing Character & 1.00b & [color=red]No[/color] & 0 & - & - R= Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom & 1.00b & [color=red]No[/color] & 0 & - & - R= Hidden Star in Four Seasons & 1.00a & [color=red]No[/color] & 0 & - & - R= Wily Beast and Weakest Creature & 1.00b & [color=red]No[/color] & 0 & - & - R= Unconnected Marketeers & 1.00a & [color=red]No[/color] & 0 & - & -


Long story short, after a recent trip to DLSite it came to my attention that I now own, in some form or another, every "main" Windows Touhou title, from 6 to 18. In the wake of said incident, it occurred to me that despite this state of affairs, plus the fact that on defaults these games generally aren't considered overly difficult, I've only got a handful of clears therein under my belt, and even those are from so darn long ago I barely remember them, despite always including a couple of Touhou entries in my Top 25 votes.

This being the case, yeah, I'm going to actually attempt a more-or-less focused effort to add a few hopefully-obtainable 1CCs to my chronically malnourished tally, and post some thoughts and such here along the way as I go, in case anyone else wants to observe, offer input, or simply point and laugh. The "conditions", such as they are, are as follows:

- I'm just going for "standard" 1CCs here, Normal difficulty, default amount of lives and such (that muffled gurgling sound you hear is the Lunatic players choking in disbelief on their drinks); there's always the possibility I could try something on Hard if the mood strikes me, but for the most part I'll just be sticking to the basics.

- Limiting the scope to the thirteen "mainline" entries here, as I don't own most of the "official spinoff" titles, and it's sure to take me long enough just to have a proper go at the stuff I already have. I'll attempt to go in chronological order, starting with Embodiment of Scarlet Devil and ending with Unconnected Marketeers, but I might skip around a little if I really get stuck and/or need a change of pace for a bit.

- Obviously not going to attempt any high-level scoring here, but I do hope to exploit the systems in each game enough to 1) Earn some extends, where applicable, and 2) Just make the trip a bit more interesting and enjoyable. I'll be recording my top scores in the table above for posterity and embarrassment. Not entirely sure what I'll do if my highest score for a game is not the one I actually clear it with.

- Not giving myself any sort of time limit, there's a decent chance the thread will go dormant for awhile if I don't have time or feel like a break from my 1CC pursuits, though I'll try not to slack off too much, just to stay in the proverbial "zone" to some degree.

- According to my ancient, outdated post in this thread I already cleared the first three games way back in the day, but as mentioned above that was ages ago, so I'm starting fresh and going through the whole list regardless.

- Aside from not being the focus of this exercise, I just plain know very little of the series' lore - this will actually be the first time I've bothered to install a translation patch for any of them, and mainly for the purposes of being able to more quickly reference the in-game manuals of entries that have them - so don't expect too much from me on that front, and whatever does pop up from yours truly is in all likelihood incorrect.

- Alongside records of my progress (or lack thereof), I'll share some noobish thoughts on each game as I go, likely including but not necessarily limited to: 1) A quick summary, for any interested parties who might not be familiar with the basics of how each game works, 2) Thoughts on trying each character and picking a favorite or two, 3) Wailing and gnashing of teeth regarding trouble spots, and 4) Just general opinions about each game, and how I personally regard it.

Oh, and scandalously NSFW armpit photos.

That's about all I can think to say about this whole mess, so my next post/chart update should be my first entry, on EoSD. Hopefully at least a few people will find this interesting and/or amusing, and I might even actually be able to claim to have accomplished something, kinda. Thanks much for reading, now let's do this.
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13897
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now: EoSD)

Post by BulletMagnet »

Embodiment of Scarlet Devil


Overview: Sets the stage for the rest of the series, featuring now-legacy mechanics such as blue "point" items which are worth more when collected higher up the screen, and a "point of collection" which automatically vacuums up all onscreen items if you move high enough upwards, though your shot need to be fully powered up to use it. "Grazing" enemy bullets is also rewarded, though mainly via your end-of-stage bonus, in later entries it becomes a lot more involved.

Characters: I find myself generally leaning towards Marisa here, as generally her higher speed and power does me more good than Reimu's more precise micro-dodging and crowd control; I imagine things are somewhat different on higher difficulty levels.

Trouble Spots: None of Sakuya's patterns during the actual boss fight give me as much trouble as the latter one she uses during the "midboss" encounter; I'm tempted to just watch a replay and see how someone who knows what they're doing gets through it, because currently it totally flummoxes me. Most of my deaths up to that point are pretty avoidable, which makes it more frustrating when I die with bombs in stock when something sudenly blindsides me.

General Thoughts: The most basic and workmanlike of the series pretty much by default, I find that fact lends it a certain charm, though the lack of an enemy indicator and other QOL improvements can grate a bit. It also took a bit of extra effort to get it running on my current laptop, originally it ran stupidly fast until I installed a vsync patch.

Misc: I've always been under the impression that Cirno is the subject of a lot of memes/jokes within the fandom, but her facial expression here...yikes! Whenever I see it I hear her whispering in my ear, Hey, BM, have you checked if your windows and doors are locked? I have.
User avatar
Lethe
Posts: 370
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:49 am

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now: EoSD)

Post by Lethe »

BulletMagnet wrote:Obviously not going to attempt any high-level scoring here, but I do hope to exploit the systems in each game enough to 1) Earn some extends, where applicable, and 2) Just make the trip a bit more interesting and enjoyable.
Bananamatic wrote:all you need on lunatic mode to clear it is to press bomb
Giving the mechanics some respect is way more important than raising the difficulty. For instance, in PCB you can fail (almost?) every capture and still clear by abusing your resources, regardless of whether it's Easy or Lunatic. Intentionally neutering a game like that isn't great fun in any case.
BulletMagnet wrote:Trouble Spots: None of Sakuya's patterns during the actual boss fight give me as much trouble as the latter one she uses during the "midboss" encounter; I'm tempted to just watch a replay and see how someone who knows what they're doing gets through it, because currently it totally flummoxes me.
There are a couple of tricks to this:
The mid non is static with random movement, and has a giant blindspot behind it, allowing for a free timeout. If you do that, the fight will end immediately without moving on to Misdirection.
Misdirection is aimed. You can wait for the red kunai to stop and then dart in front of her when she teleports, or tap stream. Both are 100% safe on Normal.
Ending the fight too fast will prolong the post-midboss stage portion, which is definitely harder than the midboss. You can skip the whole rest of the stage by running down the clock on both patterns (but being sure to finish off the non).

When you move on from EoSD, pay attention to the shift in pattern design of later games. EoSD's particular brand of chaos is not the norm, and even other Touhou-influenced games rarely play much like it.
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13897
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now: EoSD)

Post by BulletMagnet »

Thanks for the tips - just to make sure I know what you mean, when you say "non" you're referring to the patterns that aren't "named" spell cards, right?

Hmm, exploiting safe spots and skipping segments is tempting, but I always hesitate to do stuff like that simply because there's no way I'd ever have figured out any of it on my own; who knows though, maybe I'll have to swallow whatever pride I have left when it comes to shmups in the end, heh.
User avatar
Lethe
Posts: 370
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:49 am

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now: EoSD)

Post by Lethe »

BulletMagnet wrote:Thanks for the tips - just to make sure I know what you mean, when you say "non" you're referring to the patterns that aren't "named" spell cards, right?
Yeah, the ones with the regular background.
BulletMagnet wrote:Hmm, exploiting safe spots and skipping segments is tempting, but I always hesitate to do stuff like that simply because there's no way I'd ever have figured out any of it on my own; who knows though, maybe I'll have to swallow whatever pride I have left when it comes to shmups in the end, heh.
I get where you're coming from, but 1. you were basically asking for help and 2. nothing above is difficult to observe - if it were something really bizarre or exacting I wouldn't mention it, because it'd be unwelcome for a 1CC, and because I'm also bad at finding such things. Stuff like this is all about collating knowledge on how to look at the problem. Strategies that seem specific now might be remarkably useful later if you join the dots right. Teach a man to fish and all that.
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13897
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (EoSD Clear!)

Post by BulletMagnet »

Got the first clear! :) Managed to make it through the earlier stages with minimal stupid mistakes (first death on Patchouli, IIRC), and kept the bomb trigger finger itchy to push through to the end. A few ending thoughts:

- I think I'm kinda cursed when it comes to Marisa A, I theoretically should have done even better with her, but every run with her was a parade of dumb deaths and I have no idea why.

- It would appear that "pincer" patterns that come at you from the left and right are a particular Achilles' heel for me, I almost always have trouble with those; even Cirno can sometimes catch me slipping. The technique required usually isn't terribly complicated - pick a direction and stick with it as long as you can - but some mental block or other keeps me from applying it consistently.

- Second to that would probably be "variable speed" patterns, I couldn't count the amount of times I got flattened by either a fast loner out of nowhere or a lingering slowpoke that just wouldn't leave until I managed to crash into it.

- Might have a quick go at Hard before moving on just to see what happens, then on to PCB.
User avatar
To Far Away Times
Posts: 1688
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:42 am

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (EoSD Clear!)

Post by To Far Away Times »

Congrats on saving gensokyo from certain doom.

EoSD is maybe my favorite game in the series. Either that or PCB. EoSD is a little janky, but its got a lot heart. The soundtrack is an all timer, I still listen to it regularly.

Also, the next few games will be a bit easier, if that matters. Sakuya is the strongest in PCB, with her extra bomb and homing weapon, but every character is pretty well equiped in that game.

Also... I recommend coming back for the extra stage in EoSD at some point. It doesn't really matter if you do it now or some time down the road, but the extra stages of EoSD and PCB are real highlight. Extra is about as difficult as a normal difficulty clear, its not at that crazy Lunatic difficulty that its meant to look like.
User avatar
BareKnuckleRoo
Posts: 6167
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 am
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (EoSD Clear!)

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Good luck on your Touhou endeavors! Bit sad to see the best traditional shmups of the PC98 games are conspicuously absent (Lotus Land Story and Mystic Square) though. ;)

PCB's not too rough of a clear if you're able to do EoSD. Its Cherry Border mechanic rewards you with a brief shield every so often when you fill up the meter (and different characters gain meter at different rates). You can press bomb to get a full screen cancel and break the border right before it dissipates without using a bomb, which isn't good for score but handy for 1CCing.

Sakuya is definitely ideal for PCB, with Sakuya A being ideal for clearing due to a very decent bomb and a lock on shot with respectable damage. Sakuya B is stronger and gains cherry faster, but is harder to use and has weaker bombs. The only "downside" to Sakuya is she moves very fast when using the focus button compared to Reimu or Marisa... but I actually like a zippier character like her so it's not really a downside!

Reimu A is best avoided. Her bomb is quite weak despite what it looks like, and her homing is nowhere near as effective as Sakuya A's raw coverage. Reimu B is much stronger and has faster cherry gain.

Marisa's bomb count is a major disadvantage, especially considering her damage isn't that much better. Marisa B in particular has a very thin beam when focused that makes it tricky to deal full damage on bosses (and the piercing is not helpful in this game except on a handful of the final boss's spellcards). Marisa A is far better, especially since she has what I believe is the fastest cherry gain in the game with her unfocused shot, as well as very respectable damage and width. Even though Marisa A's bombs aren't as strong as her laser type, one bomb is usually more than enough to end a spellcard safely.
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13897
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (EoSD Clear!)

Post by BulletMagnet »

To Far Away Times wrote:Congrats on saving gensokyo from certain doom.
But for how long? ;) While we're on the subject, one thing I've always liked about these games is how there's always some sort of world-altering nonsense going on, but nobody ever seems to take it particularly seriously, and most of the battles are the result of either a misunderstanding or someone just being a troll (extra points to Sakuya for her "I've got to at least make you waste a bomb" in stage 6 here). I'm always a sucker for that kind of vibe; even without a translation patch you can tell just from the characters' faces (well, except Cirno) that you're playing the magical girl equivalent of a Looney Tunes cartoon.

Also, thanks for the kind words. :)
Also, the next few games will be a bit easier, if that matters. Sakuya is the strongest in PCB, with her extra bomb and homing weapon, but every character is pretty well equiped in that game.
According to my dust-covered post in Turrican's topic I previously beat the first three Touhou games, so hopefully I can at least reproduce that much here, though I apparently never submitted a score for PCB to the HS thread so I don't remember who I did it with...I do remember using Sakuya a lot though, I wouldn't be surprised if it was with her.
Also... I recommend coming back for the extra stage in EoSD at some point.
I've always been rather afraid of Extra mode, since I've always imagined it as ZUN's "time to come back down to Earth, puny mortal" revenge after you beat one of his games, but on your recommendation I'll have to try it at least once to see what happens...

Additional thanks to Roo and Lethe for the tips! :) Now to get back to work here...
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13897
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PCB)

Post by BulletMagnet »

Perfect Cherry Blossom


Overview: Most of the key features of EoSD remain, with one particularly major addition: point items' value is determined not only by how high up the screen you collect them, but by the "cherry" value, which can be increased in several ways that can significantly affect how you approach the game (and the temporary shield it occasionally awards is nice too). On the flipside, raw score doesn't award extends this time, just the total amount of point items you've nabbed, so you can still keep the focus on survivability while you're still getting used to driving your numbers up.

Characters: So far I seem to have the most clear success with Sakuya B; while not as easy to use as Sakuya A, her higher raw power grants the ability to speedkill boss patterns that are giving me trouble, while still being able to clear out zako pretty effectively as well. Still somehow feel like I ought to give the other characters a bit more time, though...

Trouble Spots: At the moment the Prismriver battle is absolutely wiping the floor with me, a reminder of how far I've backslid since last playing this, since I recall being able to get to Youmu with relative ease back in the day. Is it my imagination, or are the unique patterns they send exclusively at Sakuya the nastiest of the bunch?

General Thoughts: This was the first Touhou game I played and thus a significant factor in pushing me to delve into the genre further, so nostalgia-wise it'll always be a favorite of mine by default, but I also genuinely consider this the game where ZUN truly hit his stride, from the improved presentation and variety to the more in-depth scoring to the quality of life implementations it just feels like this is what he was aiming for with EoSD but hadn't quite gotten there yet, and for me it sets the standard for all to follow.

Misc: Since I never played the game in English before now, I'm used to simply fast-forwarding through all the dialogue, and only hearing the boss music starting when the fight actually begins; now if I actually take a few moments to read the conversation it kicks in "early" and kind of throws me off (at least it's one more convenient excuse for my failures :P).
User avatar
To Far Away Times
Posts: 1688
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:42 am

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PCB)

Post by To Far Away Times »

One tip for PCB if you are playing strictly for survival is that you can bomb while you have a cherry border and it will automatically detonate it. You get more score for letting the cherry borders expire, but for survival purposes, you should always bomb before the cherry border ends for some breathing room. Roo already mentioned this, but it's a really good strategy.

PCB is one of my favorite shmups, and I would agree that it's the first Touhou were everything comes together and it sticks the landing. I like EoSD about as much as PCB, but EoSD is a bit uneven with some really great moments, but some lows as well; whereas PCB has nicer presentation throughout. Also, the final battle in PCB with Yuyuko is really great. It's probably the best ending to a Touhou game.
User avatar
KennyMan666
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:36 pm
Location: Forever, wherever
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PCB)

Post by KennyMan666 »

BulletMagnet wrote:Is it my imagination, or are the unique patterns they send exclusively at Sakuya the nastiest of the bunch?
No, I'm pretty sure Merlin is the worst. Remember that when the three of them group up, the one you'll fight next is the one you deal the most damage to, so you only need to deal with Merlin at the start. Lunasa (in black) is apparently considered the easiest one on Normal, and on higher difficulties it's Lyrica (in red).
My 1CCs so I can find the list easier myself
<Despatche> you've been a thorn in the shmups community since the beginning, you're largely responsible for the horrible face of modern speedrunning
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13897
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PCB)

Post by BulletMagnet »

To Far Away Times wrote:You get more score for letting the cherry borders expire, but for survival purposes, you should always bomb before the cherry border ends for some breathing room.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to swallow (the last vestiges of) my pride and do this, at least once things start getting hairy; as much as I'd like to put up a "well, you can tell he was trying" score, the clear is the priority, and a free bomb is a free bomb.
KennyMan666 wrote:Remember that when the three of them group up, the one you'll fight next is the one you deal the most damage to
Did not know that, thanks for the tip!
User avatar
BrianC
Posts: 8875
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:33 am
Location: MD

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (EoSD Clear!)

Post by BrianC »

BulletMagnet wrote:one thing I've always liked about these games is how there's always some sort of world-altering nonsense going on, but nobody ever seems to take it particularly seriously, and most of the battles are the result of either a misunderstanding or someone just being a troll (extra points to Sakuya for her "I've got to at least make you waste a bomb" in stage 6 here). I'm always a sucker for that kind of vibe; even without a translation patch you can tell just from the characters' faces (well, except Cirno) that you're playing the magical girl equivalent of a Looney Tunes cartoon.
Yeah, the tone took me by surprise when I started playing with translation patches. I like how one character is pretty much a seedy reporter (Aya). Her games are very nice too.
User avatar
BareKnuckleRoo
Posts: 6167
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 am
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PCB)

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

KennyMan666's advice re: Prismriver sisters is spot-on. Merlin's wavy lasers are quite obnoxious.
User avatar
Lethe
Posts: 370
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:49 am

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PCB)

Post by Lethe »

The Merlin opener was really intimidating on my first LNB because I'd never had to deal with something like that before and I had no idea how to start. Seems simple now though. If you pay attention to her movement you can sit between the snakes and take half her health off on the first cycle. Not to say that's necessary for survival of course, there are less scary ways to do it.
User avatar
KennyMan666
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:36 pm
Location: Forever, wherever
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (EoSD Clear!)

Post by KennyMan666 »

BulletMagnet wrote:one thing I've always liked about these games is how there's always some sort of world-altering nonsense going on, but nobody ever seems to take it particularly seriously, and most of the battles are the result of either a misunderstanding or someone just being a troll (extra points to Sakuya for her "I've got to at least make you waste a bomb" in stage 6 here). I'm always a sucker for that kind of vibe; even without a translation patch you can tell just from the characters' faces (well, except Cirno) that you're playing the magical girl equivalent of a Looney Tunes cartoon.
On some occasions in the games Reimu has beaten up people just for being there (and, well, for being youkai, but anyway) when she passes through, without them being hostile to her first. The first boss of Lotus Land Story tries to make an exit when Reimu says she's looking for youkai to murder and then Reimu blows her up anyway.
My 1CCs so I can find the list easier myself
<Despatche> you've been a thorn in the shmups community since the beginning, you're largely responsible for the horrible face of modern speedrunning
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13897
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (EoSD Clear!)

Post by BulletMagnet »

KennyMan666 wrote:On some occasions in the games Reimu has beaten up people just for being there
Truly an inspiration to us all.

Speaking of which, just had a surprisingly good run as Reimu A, made it to Yuyuko and fell to that pattern where she sends that annoying seeking firework thing after you...that said, however, this run made it abundantly clear that Stage 4 is what I most need to focus on tightening up, since I croaked an utterly embarrassing amount of times there while doing comparatively well in 5 and 6, for some bizarre reason. If I can make it past the Prismrivers with most of my resources intact I should have a good shot at smashing through the final brick wall with my face.
User avatar
BrianC
Posts: 8875
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:33 am
Location: MD

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (EoSD Clear!)

Post by BrianC »

KennyMan666 wrote:The first boss of Lotus Land Story tries to make an exit when Reimu says she's looking for youkai to murder and then Reimu blows her up anyway.
I mistook that boss for Meiling when I first saw her. Had to at least be a proto for the character.
User avatar
pulsemod
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:35 am

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PCB)

Post by pulsemod »

glad to see some happy casual normal mode playthroughs here to feel less alone! I used to play reimu A almost exclusively in the past so it was really astonishing just how much easier sakuya was when I tried playing as her (other than the prismriver fight, of course)!
IN will be interesting, that game doesn't have its true ending/alt-last stage unlocked until after clearing once. I don't know if any of the other games in the series have a stage split?
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13897
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PCB Clear!)

Post by BulletMagnet »

Came back after a bit of a break and Reimu B came through with the clear! Still got smooshed a few times in stage 4, which remains my biggest overall bugbear (not to mention one extra-stupid death on Alice's last pattern this time around), but from there managed to muddle through Yuyuko's onslaught enough to finish with a little bit of leeway left over. Weirdly, with an exception or two Youmu's patterns never gave me all that much trouble compared to her bookends, and I'm honestly not sure why, especially since she specializes in the "pincer" patterns I usually have trouble with.

Onward to IN, the last entry I've already played to any significant extent and my other personal favorite; one final thought, when the "2003" appeared in PCB's credits I can only imagine the color my face turned. Good grief, has it really been nearly twenty freakin' years since I first encountered this thing? I kinda wonder if this series of 1CC attempts will end up outlasting me. :P
User avatar
To Far Away Times
Posts: 1688
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:42 am

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PCB Clear!)

Post by To Far Away Times »

Congrats on the clear. PCB was one of the first shmups I really got into. It's a special game for me.

The whole 6-7-8 trilogy is top tier stuff.

Imperishable Night has some really cool flourishes. I love stage four with the border team. (Reimu and Yukari I think? Its been awhile...). That section where you defeat the stage 4 midboss and go on a "chase" and the music and scrolling speed increases in intensity is just perfect. And of course that legendary boss fight. One of my favorite moments in any shmup.

I remember these games weren't that old when I first started playing either... Maybe 2006 or 2007? :shock: . It was definitely before Mountain of Faith came out.
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13897
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - PCB Clear!)

Post by BulletMagnet »

Imperishable Night


Overview: While PCB could reasonably be sized up as an "evolution" of EoSD, there's a LOT more going on here, to the point that it's frankly tough to summarize the essentials, but I'll do my best: 1) Many enemies, major and minor, now deploy "familiars" (basically option helpers); 2) Your main and focused shots/states (technically each controlled by a "team" of two characters) affect said familiars differently; 3) Using your shot types to deal with enemies and familiars in various ways awards you "time", which both boosts your score and is necessary to reach the "true" end of the game. That's honestly pretty cursory, you'll need to spend a bit of time at the Wiki for this one.

Characters: More than a bit torn, truth be told; Team Reimu is tooled even more definitely towards pure survival than usual, which makes her the odds-on favorite, but each of the other teams features some form of raw power (Remilia particularly stands out to me) that the former lacks, which I have a feeling will come in handy when desperately trying to outlast those later bosses...

Trouble Spots: Stage 4 is once again the "things start to go south" point for me, though unfortunately Stage 5 is not much of an improvement; also, loath as I am to actually do it, I also definitely need to memorize enemy appearances a bit more, as I've found myself getting clipped as they whiz in more here than in PCB.

General Thoughts: My second Touhou experience, and what a doozy; significantly more complex than its predecessors (and many of its descendants), it nonetheless stands as the "other" defining game in the series for me, as you can almost feel ZUN's confidence to push and experiment after all of the nuts-and-bolts improvements of PCB, from the various new systems to the even more elaborate bullet patterns. I'm tempted to describe it as a particularly "exotic" entry, or perhaps "pure Touhou concentrate", as the elements that help the series stand out are turned up to eleven, and give it a "feel" all its own.

Misc: One relatively minor thing I appreciate about IN is how it manages to make every stage and character stand out so much better than before; in the earlier games the starting stages and enemies in particular could kind of get overshadowed by the rest, but here I find every background and baddie throughout is memorable, whether via visual design or bullet pattern (or, in Wriggle Nightbug's case, just the name :P).
User avatar
To Far Away Times
Posts: 1688
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:42 am

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - IN)

Post by To Far Away Times »

One thing I found with IN is that it has a lot of "gimmicky" patterns that are designed to trick you. Luckily, this is the first game in the series with the spell practice. Some of the patterns are trivial when you know the secret and absolutely filthy when you don't.

Border Team is my favorite for getting a clear with it's super generous death bomb. However, I still recommend bombing proactively, since death bombing effectively cuts your bombs in half. You can be a hero and not bomb on that final bomb though without much penalty.
User avatar
KennyMan666
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:36 pm
Location: Forever, wherever
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - IN)

Post by KennyMan666 »

Imperishable Night is the Touhou game I consider the easiest along with Ten Desires, in terms of just getting a Normal clear. It was my first Touhou 1CC, and if I recall, my second real shmup 1CC at all. It's really easy to amass a lot of extends, I've gone into stage 4 with 8 lives in stock. If you want raw power, look no further than Magic Team, and the memetic Malice Cannon—keep mashing shift so you get the damage from both Alice's laser and Marisa's missiles. But this isn't something you in any way need to rely on, at least not on Normal.
My 1CCs so I can find the list easier myself
<Despatche> you've been a thorn in the shmups community since the beginning, you're largely responsible for the horrible face of modern speedrunning
User avatar
BareKnuckleRoo
Posts: 6167
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 am
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - IN)

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Congrats on the PCB clear!

I find IN to be a fairly tricky game. Its patterns are more difficult than PCB or EoSD for me, especially on Lunatic. However, it's got some pretty potent shot types for sure!

Magic Team is great for a 1st 1CC if you take advantage of the MAlice Cannon exploit where you can mash the focus shot button to hit with both Alice's laser and Marisa's icicles together. It shreds bosses, and Marisa has the best bomb in the game in terms of damage. The lack of spread isn't a huge issue. Note that Alice has the worst bomb in the game and you'll need to go unfocused before bombing to deal good damage.

My fave "team" lately is actually the Ghost Team (deals high damage unfocused, massive screen coverage and modest damage when focused), or Marisa Solo (who deals plenty of damage without needing Alice, and you don't get stuck with accidentally using Alice's bombs which are the weakest in the game by a huge margin).

Reimu's team is popular for clearing too as Yukari is great for dealing with boss patterns. Their bombs are decent too.

Scarlet Team is tough to use. Remilia's quite powerful, but Sakuya's been nerfed hard since PCB days and is the weakest character in the game by a considerable margin (she's the worst of the unlockable solo characters easily). They both have powerful bombs though, so you can use bombs when focused or unfocused to great effect (you have to hold shot down when using Remilia's bomb to "fire" it, think of it like a hyper with invulnerability).
User avatar
BulletMagnet
Posts: 13897
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:05 am
Location: Wherever.
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - IN)

Post by BulletMagnet »

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement and tips. :) I'll keep the "Malice Cannon" (the name certainly couldn't have worked out better) in my back pocket for now, as I'm always hesitant to use obviously unintended exploits (then again, wouldn't ZUN have patched it out? Unless the fans threatened him if he did), but who knows, I might find myself in need of it if things get desperate...

...because, phew, I JUST barely managed an A-route clear (and the much-coveted "let's underage drinking!" ending :P); the last boss was an absolute nightmare of pincer patterns, I'm not sure I managed to get through a single one of them without bombing or dying. That being the case, I'm going to award myself the first (though likely not last) "Kinda" clear designation of this exercise, and only upgrade it to a straight "Yes" if I can make it through the now-unlocked "B" route and bring down Kaguya (back before the Touhou wiki and translation patch I always figured I must have scored higher or something when the B route appeared, when in reality all I had to do was play again after clearing once).

Off to the side, while every Touhou game has instances of this I find myself particularly annoyed this time around by the occasional "gotcha!" boss pattern which starts up almost immediately after they drop a batch of items from the last one, and thus blast you when you go to collect them unless you already know that just that one pattern is the one where it's not safe to do that. I wish the games were a little more consistent in this regard, it just feels like memorization for its own sake rather than anything that registers as rewarding once you've gotten the hang of it.
User avatar
KennyMan666
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:36 pm
Location: Forever, wherever
Contact:

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - IN)

Post by KennyMan666 »

Kaguya is generally considered an easier final boss than Eirin, so you'll be fine.

Probably.
My 1CCs so I can find the list easier myself
<Despatche> you've been a thorn in the shmups community since the beginning, you're largely responsible for the horrible face of modern speedrunning
User avatar
To Far Away Times
Posts: 1688
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:42 am

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - IN)

Post by To Far Away Times »

Nice clear. IN is a truly excellent game. It was my first 1CC some 15 years ago when I started playing shmups. It's one of those foundational games for me that really got me into the genre.

The touhou games after IN aren't quite up to this level, IMO, but I still enjoy playing them.
User avatar
Lethe
Posts: 370
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:49 am

Re: BM's Filthy Casual Touhou-Palooza (Now - IN)

Post by Lethe »

PCB and IN feature the blunder of drawing the player's hitbox under bullets and other effects. Not a big issue in PCB, but in IN the flood of time orbs while focus grazing can get really distracting. I've no qualms about calling IN the best main game on balance though... actually I didn't like playing it very much at first because the Marisa fight dragged it down for me. Thankfully it's consistently replaceable with a much better boss via never playing a 4B team again. Really the different ways of splitting stages 4 and 6 are just short-sightedness; besides, I've always been annoyed Eirin wasn't a "real" boss. Wouldn't it have been better for each team to have its own unique combination?
Post Reply