Opinons on Dragon Saber?

[KimagureMachibuse]

What are your guys thoughts on the game Dragon Saber? I have played the original Dragon Spirit on Namco Museum vol 5 and thought it was quite difficult mostly due to the size of the hit box you have but liked everything else of it. but never played the sequel i am aware its on the PC Engine and a more arcade accurate version exists on Namco Museum Encore but i have yet to get that collection and i do not have a PC Engine.

[BIL]

Easy recommendation if you like Spirit. Same fast-paced Xeviousesque with bigger guns and even better tunes. Hitbox situation is about the same, but ala Spirit, it's nothing a little macro-dodging and speedkilling won't fix. ;3 The Encore port is excellent, here's hoping for an ACA reprise!

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

edit: aw fuck the image i linked here is gone. aw shit. aw crap.

[GFoyle]

I have only tried the PC-Engine few times and it really feels like I'm playing Dragon Spirit... except that the music is nowhere near the same level (at least in the initial stages), which makes me want to play Dragon Spirit instead.

[BIL]

AC ver includes remixes of Dragon Spirit's OST as a hidden alt soundtrack.

[bigbadboaz]

So is only the arcade version a recommend, or is the PCE rev worthy for what it is?

[Fudoh]

I don't like the PCE version. Either the complete game is 30fps only or the background scrolling is - don't recall exactly, but it feels way worse than Dragon Spirit (which I REALLY like on the PCE).

[bigbadboaz]

Yeah, Spirit is a great port but it always looked to me like Saber had to be cut down much more.

[Aquas]

Arcade default DIP for "health" is 0 for Dragon Saber. Meaning, one hit deaths.

This can be pretty punishing, ontop of its rank system having its harsh moments on a one credit clear attempt.

That being said, love the game still. A classic like Spirit.

[Jeneki]

Sup Aquas, long time no see.

My only experience with Saber is from the PC-Engine port. Sounds like I'm missing out.

[CIT]

Dragon Saber has easily one of the top 3 shmup OSTs of all time, imo!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrIkgo3oyzo


One of the reasons the PCE port kind of disappoints. Should’ve been a CD, but Namco never supported the format.

[BIL]

Yeah, it's outstanding! I get the feeling from Hosoe's interviews, and his recent tweets on the release of ACA Dragon Spirit, he really put everything he had into both games' OSTs. They've an unmistakable fire and passion, as well as sheer attention to detail (both "Volcano" solos are show-stoppingly furied) that annihilates any sense of phone-in. I feel similarly about Naoki Kodaka's classic Sunsoft OSTs like Batman and Raf World, way above and beyond.

Spirit has some very high highs, but I think it ebbs a bit around stages 3 and 5 (jungle/cave). Saber radiates melodic joie de vivre from start to finish, even at stage 3's smouldering interlude (the contemplative flute solo providing an excellent contrast with the spiralling metal of the previous stage). An OST I'll happily listen end-to-end, attract/HS themes and all.

[Vexorg]

The arcade version is one of the PCBs I wanted to get back when I had an arcade cabinet, but never did find one. Played it quite a bit in a local arcade, the difficulty is fairly high but not as high as Dragon Spirit was. I don't know how it is now, but at the time I don't think it had been emulated correctly by MAME.

[BIL]

Woop woop! Arcade Archives ver out tomorrow (14/07/22)

[BEAMLORD]

I couldn't get on with Dragon Spirit. My biggest bugbear was that when you pull right back to the bottom of the screen, you can only move back as far as the tip of your tail. I would much prefer if the tail disappeared off-screen, so that you're dragging your dragon ass along the bottom of the screen. Would have so much more leeway for dodging.

I've not played Sabre. Does it suffer from the same problem? Being a sequel, is it any better overall?

[BIL]

IIRC, it's exactly the same Tail Policy in both games, unfortunately - the player avatar is a big ol' blue heifer 3; They're near enough that I'd suggest a quick MAME testdrive - what may sway your opinion is the Big Honkin' Guns Saber's a lot more generous there, with factory autofire, a beefy charge shot, and some impressively screen-raking powerups that aren't too tricky to get hold of (st2's white dragon and its monstrous cruciform phoenix shot is a perennial favourite of mine).

Saber's also got a bit more aesthetic oomph, some rad setpieces here and there; ruined futurepolises splitting open into a volanic hellscapes, an ocean-skimming naval skirmish with a whole school of godawful Nessie fuckers, and a high-speed Future Canyon full of metal barricades to blast down. As described above, I think the OST is even more spectacular than Spirit's, but it actually packs in both for an astonishingly concentrated hit of Good VGM tonnage.

Also 2P co-op, not usually a decisive factor in this genre, in my experience, but something about the large ships and Death From Above format always made it feel notably compelling. Probably just a fondness for the cool character arts tbh.

[BEAMLORD]

Cheers, BIL. MAME is not an option for me, but the ACA releases are cheap enough, I'll likely pick it up anyway. More firepower goes a long way with me, and a bit more aesthetic polish makes it all the better.

[BIL]

Might be a long shot, but the Namco Museum Encore (NTSCJ only) port is AFAIK perfect, or very near it - just mentioned on the off chance you can do PS1 emulation or burns. But yeah, fortunately not too great a risk with ACA! Particularly as, unlike that PS4 Dragon Blaze I drunkely chanced upon the other day, you don't have to spin the chamber on input lag! (actually not too bad on that account imo, but holy cow! terrifying, dealing with SHITBIRD CONNECTION it ain't the price, it's the spectre of imminent butchery!)

[BEAMLORD]

I've no PS1 capability at the moment, either. Some gamer, right!
No problem, ACA it is.

Dragon Blaze looks great, but yeah, I'll be waiting on an improvement on the current lag issue (Switch player, so forget about it) or another way to play at some point

[BIL]

Fuck me Absolute foot-through-the-floor pacing in this one, I'd forgotten. Bigger guns and bigger targets, bugger or be buggered by avalanches of big n chunky Destructible Bullets. Autofire feels bang-on even when pushed to the most XTREEM of 30hz shot+30hz bomb. The passive charge shot is particularly handy here, no problem having "HOSE EM DOWN REAL GOOD" 30hz and "EAT THIS YOU UGLY MUHFUCKA" charge on the same button

Something the upped fury really hammers home / dynamites up from the depths of forgotten is, both these games demand really aggressive sweeping, of both the staggered and macro variety, and similarly proactive speedkilling; your big rectangular heifer can't squeeze through even obvious gaps, nor handle much of anything to its flanks (air formations in particular love flanking you, right from ST1; sneaking down the sides of the screen, then 90' swerving straight into your sides, if you let them).

That tank nest near the end of Saber ST2 is the first real "DEAD NOW MUHFUCKA" shot across the bow - it's easy to find yourself deluged, if you don't commence total carpet-bombing on sight. Metal Black fans (all two dozen of us ) will instantly recognise that with large, aggressive kamikazes, like st3's green ghosts, you're decidedly better off shooting them down while micro-tapping to maintain distance, than attempting broad evasion; even if you get clear of a head-on collision, you might get a whack on the arse from their big sprite sideswiping yours.

Spirit and Saber won't be everyone's cup of tea, but I will say they absolutely have a consistent ethos; they're no mere jank "fuck you pay me" novelties. You get more than enough speed and firepower to handle business, but it'll go to waste quickly if not observantly deployed. An odd setup, a Flying Winnebago with XTREEM front offense and a turbo afterburner up its tailpipe.

Far less divisive are TEH CHOONZ (;｀w´;) st1 & 2 BGM, hyperarticulated sunny feelgood, st3 rather more morbid but still unmistakably verving with the FUNereal post-punk drumbeat, st4 rockets off again. It's a very up affair reflective of technological wonder world that seemed to open up on both AC and console fronts ca 1990, and an unmistakable labour of love with Hosoe chucking in the entire Spirit soundtrack FO FREE. I am most pleased with how this thread turned out tbh

[BEAMLORD]

Just downloaded Dragon Sabre after work today and had a quick 30 minutes. I like it
First impression, much improved over Spirit in my view, in no short thanks to the increased firepower. You power up very quickly, and can reasonably blaze through stages 1-2 and into 3, which is as far as I got in this first sitting.
What I'm REALLY loving so far, considering that deaths are checkpoint-based, is that the BGM doesn't stop when you die! Praise be to Bahamut. I don't remember if this is also true of Dragon Spirit, but that's a great touch. I can't think of another STG where the music carries on uninterrupted after restarting from a checkpoint

[EmperorIng]

Arcade default DIP for "health" is 0 for Dragon Saber. Meaning, one hit deaths.

This can be pretty punishing, ontop of its rank system having its harsh moments on a one credit clear attempt.

I've heard a number of people complain about this, and how the DIP's default should have been 2 or three hits per life... didn't Spirit have some sort of multiple hit deal?

I have only played the PCE port, which I enjoy. I don't know if the arcade version's improved visuals will be a good trade-off for the probably horrendous increase in difficulty...

[BIL]

Saber could've definitely used at least one hitpoint, yeah. I did my usual "simulation mode" savestate-after-each-stage first run, and the last stage goes full ImageFight Loop 2 (after the sixth stage's ImageFight Loop 1). Wickedly unlovely terrain trap + sniper n' kamikaze mixups. As in IREM's game, you certainly have the POWWA to swat everything down, with some segments being uber-punishing as certain Dragons, a relative breeze with others, in the classic late 80s/early 90s powerup-driven style.

I 1CCd the Encore version, but either due to misleading MAME DIPs or the port itself (it's been like 15 years), I decidedly recall having a couple HP. Aieee! Oh well. As psychotic angeryface Flying Shark bro advised us long ago, Nobody Ever Said It Would Be Easy!

On the plus side, it's a brisk game that really packs its runtime, so the memo burden's not on par with the actual IF 2ALL. That's just the style of STG that leaps to mind.

I quite like the designers' very apparent use of the shot/bomb/charger trifecta - all have plenty of work to do, frequently in concert, with some neat mixups like st4's flytraps and sniper flowers. Individually harmless, but you'd better mow the former down nice with Shot before dispatching with Bomb, or they'll SUCC you real good for their buddies to cheapshot!

Impressively committed work, all-around. Reminds me a bit of the transition from Gradius to Gradius II; you can really tell the staff wanted to give the original a worthy successor, rather than something that'd forever ride on its coattails. Hosoe's OST again has to be mentioned (the uninterrupted play is indeed appreciated!) as surpassingly brilliant - it's been so long, several tracks I'd assumed were ending / hiscore etc BGMs are in fact used to oneiric effect in-game.

Roll on Metal Hawk pls. As legendary as Namco's 80s run is, their turn-of-the-decade works predating the shift to polygons have a fiery pixel-art ambition that remains striking to this day. More love needed. (ah jeez, you could airdrop Konami, Taito, IREM and DECO in there quite happily 3; more early 90s gems in general pls)

[professor ganson]

Saber's also got a bit more aesthetic oomph, some rad setpieces here and there; ruined futurepolises splitting open into a volanic hellscapes, an ocean-skimming naval skirmish with a whole school of godawful Nessie fuckers, and a high-speed Future Canyon full of metal barricades to blast down.

I hear about "set pieces" all the time in movie podcasts over the past year or so, but don't think I've seen the phrase used in connection with shmups before. I like it!

[Restart_Point]

I just wanted to add that for a 1987 arcade machine, Dragon Spirit is extremely impressive. Namco were killing it on a technical level at that time with presentation, graphics and sound, on those factors alone it could pass for an early to mid-'90s game (on that note check out 1989's Valkyrie No Densetsu - also on Namco Museum - a seriously beautiful looking and sounding shooter). A lot of their games don't seem to get as much recognition as the usual Irem / Toaplan shmups etc, I guess their shmup gameplay innovations weren't advancing at such a pace but they are still great games.

The PS1 Namco Museum entries for DSpirit / DSaber are excellent. The PC Engine port of D Saber is better than the D Spirit port in all ways, so aim for that one first.