19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

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Nifty
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19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Nifty »

Top 25 Shmups of All Time (through 2021)

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##. Game                                               Score  02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
01. Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT/PS4/XB1)                    8.18   +  +  *  +  +  +  =  =  =  =  =  +  =  +  +  +  +  +
02. Ketsui ~Kizuna Jigoku Tachi~ (ARC/360/PS3/PS4)      7.44   .  *  *  *  *  *  +  +  +  +  +  +  =  +  =  -  +  -
03. DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou / Black Label (ARC/360/etc.)  6.28   *  +  +  +  +  =  =  ~  =  +  +  =  +  -  -  =  +  =
04. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (ARC/360)  5.98   .  .  .  .  *  *  +  ~  ~  -  -  -  -  =  +  =  -  =
05. DoDonPachi (ARC/SAT/PSX)                            5.73   -  -  -  -  -  =  -  -  =  +  =  =  +  +  -  +  -  +
06. Armed Police Batrider (ARC)                         5.19   *  *  +  *  -  +  -  -  -  -  =  =  -  -  =  +  +  +
07. Ikaruga (ARC/DC/GC/360/PC/SWI)                      4.68   -  -  -  -  -  -  +  -  +  +  +  =  +  +  +  +  -  -
08. Mushihimesama / 1.5 (ARC/PS2/360/PC)                4.51   .  .  *  +  +  +  -  +  *  +  -  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
09. Darius Gaiden (ARC/SAT/PSX/PS2/etc.)                4.39   *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  +  *  *  +  +  +  *  *  +  +
10. Crimzon Clover / World Ignition / etc. (PC/etc.)    4.23   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  *  *  *  =  -  -  -  -  -  -
11. Batsugun / Batsugun Special (ARC/SAT)               4.19   *  +  +  *  +  +  +  +  +  -  -  +  +  +  +  +  +  *
12. Radiant Silvergun (ARC/SAT/360)                     4.080  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  +  *  +  -  -  +  -  -  =  -  -
13. Gunbird 2 (ARC/DC/SWI/PC)                           4.077  +  =  -  +  +  *  *  +  -  -  +  +  *  +  +  +  *  +
14. ESP Ra.De. / Psi (ARC/PS4/SWI)                      3.80   -  -  +  +  +  +  +  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  =  +
15. R-Type (ARC/PCE/PSX/etc.)                           3.55   -  -  -  -  *  =  +  -  +  +  +  -  -  +  +  -  +  =
16. ZeroRanger (PC)                                     3.51   .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  +  +  -
17. Cho Ren Sha 68K (PC/X68)                            3.46   *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  +
18. G-Darius (ARC/PS2/PSX/etc.)                         3.39   *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  +
19. Dangun Feveron / Fever SOS (ARC/PS4/XB1)            3.25   *  *  *  *  *  *  -  -  *  *  *  *  *  -  -  -  -  -
20. Dragon Blaze (ARC/PS2/SWI/PC)                       3.23   *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  -  -  *  *  +  *  -  *  *  *
21. Gradius V (PS2)                                     3.13   .  .  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  *  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
22. R-Type Delta (PSX)                                  3.10   *  *  +  -  -  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  -  *  *
23. RayForce / Layer Section / etc. (ARC/PS2/SAT/etc.)  2.95   *  -  -  -  -  -  +  *  *  *  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
24. Gradius Gaiden (PSX/PSP)                            2.76   =  -  -  -  -  -  *  -  *  +  *  *  =  -  -  -  -  -
25. Deathsmiles / Mega Black Label (ARC/360/PC)         2.75   .  .  .  .  .  *  *  ~  -  *  -  -  *  *  *  -  -  -
  • = denotes the game holds the same position now as the year indicated.
  • + denotes the game holds an improved standing compared to the year indicated.
  • - denotes the game holds a reduced standing compared to the year indicated.
  • * denotes the game was not on the list for the year indicated.
  • . denotes the game was not released or otherwise eligible for voting for the year indicated.
  • ~ denotes the game vote was classified (significantly) differently for the year indicated.

Honourable Mention

Code: Select all

Game                                                    02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Battle Bakraid (ARC)                                     +  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  -  =  -  =  =  =  +  =  =
Blazing Lazers / Gunhed (PCE)                            -  =  =  =  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
Blazing Star (ARC/NG/etc.)                               =  +  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
Blue Revolver (PC)                                       .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  +  +  +  =  =
DoDonPachi Daifukkatsu / 1.5 / Resurrection (ARC/etc.)   .  .  .  .  .  .  +  +  =  -  =  =  =  =  =  -  -  =
DoDonPachi Saidaioujou / Exa Label (ARC/360)             .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  +  -  -  =  =  =  =  =  =
DonPachi (ARC/SAT/PSX)                                   -  -  -  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  +  =  =  =
Eschatos (360/PC)                                        .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  +  =  =  =  -  =  +  =  -  =
ESPGaluda (ARC/PS2)                                      .  +  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  =  -  -  -  -
ESPGaluda II (ARC/360)                                   .  .  .  +  +  +  =  -  -  -  -  -  =  =  =  +  =  =
Fire Shark / Same! Same! Same! (ARC/GEN)                 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  =  +  +  +  +  +  +  =  +
Flying Shark / Hishouzame / Sky Shark (ARC/NES/etc.)     +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  =  =  +  =  =  =  =  =
GG Aleste 3 (GGM/PS4/SWI)                                .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  +
Giga Wing (ARC/DC)                                       +  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  =  =  =  =  =  +  =  =
Gradius II: Gofer no Yabou (ARC/SAT/FC/etc.)             +  =  =  =  +  =  +  +  =  =  +  =  =  =  =  =  =  =
Gradius / Nemesis (ARC/NES/PCE/etc.)                     =  =  =  +  +  +  +  =  =  +  =  =  +  +  =  =  +  =
Guwange (ARC/360)                                        -  -  =  -  =  -  -  -  -  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =
Ibara (ARC/PS2)                                          .  .  .  =  =  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  =  =  =  =  =
Judgement Silversword (WSC/360/PC)                       .  .  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  =  =  =  =  +
Mahou Daisakusen / Sorcer Striker (ARC/X68/FMT/PS4)      +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  =  =
Mars Matrix (ARC/DC)                                     -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  =  -  -
Muchi Muchi Pork! (ARC/360)                              .  .  .  .  .  +  +  +  -  -  -  =  -  =  -  =  =  =
Progear no Arashi (ARC/PC/etc.)                          +  +  +  =  =  -  -  =  =  =  =  =  =  -  -  =  =  =
Raiden DX (ARC/PSX)                                      +  +  -  -  -  =  -  =  -  =  -  =  =  -  =  =  =  =
Raiden Fighters Jet (ARC/360/PC)                         +  =  =  +  +  =  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  =  =  =  =
Soukyugurentai / Terra Diver (SAT/ARC/PSX)               -  -  -  -  -  -  =  -  =  -  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =
Strikers 1945 II (ARC/SAT/PSX/PS2/SWI/PC)                -  -  -  -  =  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  =  -
Super Aleste / Space Megaforce (SNES)                    =  =  =  =  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
Tatsujin / Truxton (ARC/GEN/PCE)                         +  =  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  =  =
Thunder Dragon 2 (ARC)                                   +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  =  =  -  -  -  =
Thunder Force III (GEN/SAT/etc.)                         -  -  -  -  -  -  =  =  =  =  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
Thunder Force IV / Lightening Force (GEN/SAT/etc.)       -  -  -  -  -  -  =  +  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =
Twin Cobra / Kyukyoku Tiger (ARC/PCE/etc.)               +  =  +  +  =  =  +  +  +  =  +  =  +  =  +  =  =  =
Twinkle Star Sprites (ARC/SAT/DC/etc.)                   +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  =  +  +  =  =  +  +  +
Under Defeat (ARC/DC/360/PS3)                            .  .  .  +  -  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  =  -  -  -  =  =
  • = denotes the game was also on the HM list for the year indicated.
  • + denotes the game was on neither the HM list nor the top 25 for the year indicated.
  • - denotes the game was in the top 25 for the year indicated.
  • . denotes the game was not released or otherwise eligible for voting for the year indicated.


What Dropped from 2020's Top 25:
  • ESPGaluda (ARC/PS2)
  • Mars Matrix (ARC/DC)
  • Strikers 1945 II (ARC/SAT/PSX/PS2/SWI/PC)
What Dropped from 2020's Honourable Mentions:
  • Akai Katana (ARC/360)
  • Darius Burst: AC / EX / Chronicle Saviours (PC/etc.)
  • Dimahoo / Great Mahou Daisakusen (ARC)
  • Flame Zapper Kotsujin (PC-98)
  • Gradius III (SNES)
  • Hellsinker (PC)
  • Imperishable Night [Touhou 8] (PC)
  • Kamui (PC)
  • Neko Navy / Daydream Edition (PC/SWI)
  • Perfect Cherry Blossom [Touhou 7] (PC)
  • Rolling Gunner / OverPower (PC/SWI/ARC/PS4)
  • Salamander 2 (ARC/SAT/PSX)
  • Strikers 1999 / Strikers 1945 III (ARC/PC)


Breakdown by Developer

Code: Select all

                   Top 25         Hon.M.          Overall
Cave                  8               9              17
Raizing               2               3              5
Toaplan               1               4              5
Treasure              3               -              3
Taito                 3               -              3
Psikyo                2               1              3
Konami                1               2              3
Irem                  2               -              2
Compile               -               2              2
Takumi                -               2              2
Technosoft            -               2              2
Qute                  -               2              2
Seibu Kaihatsu        -               2              2
Famibe no Yosshin     1               -              1
Yotsubane             1               -              1
System Erasure        1               -              1
G.rev                 -               1              1
NMK                   -               1              1
Yumekobo              -               1              1
ADK                   -               1              1
Stellar Circle        -               1              1
M2                    -               1              1

Breakdown by Original Platform

Code: Select all

System             Top 25         Hon.M.          Overall
Arcade                19             27              46
PC/Windows             2              1               3
PlayStation            2              -               2
Mega Drive/Genesis     -              2               2
PlayStation 2          1              -               1
X68000                 1              -               1
Xbox 360               -              1               1
SNES/SFC               -              1               1
PC-Engine              -              1               1
WonderSwan Color       -              1               1
Game Gear Micro        -              1               1

Most Personal Honourable Mentions (no. of [0])

Code: Select all

Game                                                No. of appearances
Axelay (SNES)                                             4
Blue Revolver (PC)                                        4
Deathsmiles / Mega Black Label (ARC/360/PC)               4
Einhänder (PSX)                                           4
ESPGaluda (ARC/PS2)                                       4
Gate of Thunder (PCE-CD)                                  4
Gradius III (SNES)                                        4
Ikaruga (ARC/DC/GC/360/PC/SWI)                            4
Musha Aleste / M.U.S.H.A. (GEN)                           4
RayForce / Layer Section / etc. (ARC/PS2/SAT/etc.)        4
Recca [Summer Carnival '92] (NES)                         4
Soldier Blade (PCE)                                       4
Twinkle Star Sprites (ARC/SAT/DC/etc.)                    4

Miscellaneous Stats:
  • Number of Counted Voters: 69
  • Total Vote Weight: 68
  • Number of Games Voted For: 391
  • Number of Honourable Mentions: 35
  • Proportion of Voters who chose to use a Shortlist: 0.06 (4/69)
  • Proportion of Voters who chose to include Personal Honourable Mentions: 0.42 (29/69)
  • Proportion of Personal Honourable Mentions included where eligible: 0.45 (29/65)
  • Number of Games Receiving Only [0]'s: 47
  • Games Supported by at least half of voters (≥34 combined): 2
  • Games Supported by at least 1/4 of voters (≥17 combined): 24
  • Top 25 Score Spread: 2.750 - 8.180
  • Honourable Mention Score Spread: 1.406 - 2.717
  • Total Score Spread: 0.037 - 8.180


Random Comments:
  • Resurgent and with a point to prove, Battle Garegga has made it back to the top, re-breaking its own high score. Someday it might even achieve its rumoured goal of reaching a letter score on the T25. This set the tone for the results this year, where games that gained ground often made big pushes (sometimes bigger than they have in a long time) while others still stayed mostly around where they had been, leading to some very competitive jostling.
  • This year featured the highest number of personal HM lists yet by quite some margin, as well as the lowest appearance rate of short ballots. Despite this abundance of inclusivity, no game broke more than four [0]'s total, which coincidentally is the minimum highest count that's been reached every year since its introduction.
  • As an added bonus, I've got some extra results planned for this exhibition. They'll be posted with the full games list, don't miss them!
  • The discussion thread for this year's poll is here.
  • The votes for this year's poll can be found here.
  • The full results have shown up in this location here.
This event will not be taking place next year, or every odd-numbered year while I still run it alone. Remember to return in January 2024 for the big 20 of the 25!
Last edited by Nifty on Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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donluca
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by donluca »

Thank you so much for doing this, it's always interesting seeing those lists and what changed from previous years.

Glad to see Batsugun up there, I've always felt it's a great game which deserved more recognition.

Sad to see no Progear on the main list... oh well.

One day maybe I'll have enough 1CCs under my belt to partecipate.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Steven »

Yay, Battle Garegga. I sat this one out since I have not played anywhere near enough games to vote, but I have actually played about half of the top 25 and about 2/3 of the honorable mentions. Maybe I'll have enough experience in 2024.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Lethe »

Oof, I can't pretend to be happy about those HM losses. And what's Batsugun doing all the way up there?

Something interesting I noticed though (Nifty might be planning to go into this later): the ratio of total games voted for to the number of total voters alternates up and down per year, so a more diverse pool of games is always followed by a less diverse one and vice versa, while the total diversity trends up over time. Maybe annual voting was always too frequent, or maybe voters are reactionary, or maybe it's meaningless. I don't think going bi-annual is bad, anyway. If it doesn't cause interest to die completely then the space will freshen things up some.

Maybe we could try something different in the interim, like the top 25 soundtracks poll I half-joked about? Less people would be intimidated by that subject, especially if we use a simpler rating system.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Wow, off the top of my head that seems like a lot of change compared to most years. Thanks for doing this, I'd offer to help but math and I don't get along super well. I blame math.

It does my heart good to see Gunbird 2 so high up (yet still lower than it deserves!), especially since 2 years ago the top 25 looked like a list of Cave games guest starring Treasure. Though Cave do still account for a third of the list and 4 of the top 5; I voted for Ketsui, Esp.Ra.De, DDP & Deathsmiles so I guess I'm not one to talk. I didn't vote for Dragon Blaze, but it's cool to see that game has been gaining interest as a score chase in various quarters as well.

I can see the collections lead to a boost in interest for Darius Gaiden. There's been a lot going on around Toaplan the past year, it seems Batsugun drew the major benefit from it as well. Meanwhile, Gradius V dropped like a rock for some reason.

The only thing missing from this list is a good old fashioned Compile entry in the top 25. Come on, who needs Cho Ren Sha when there's Aleste out there to be had?
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by To Far Away Times »

Thanks for doing this again Nifty.

Wow, what a great showing for Batsugun and G-Darius. Seems like those games took huge leaps. I like both of them a lot and included them in my list. G-Darius is sort of seen as a lesser game next to Darius Gaiden, and I'm not really sure why. I played them back to back, both are excellent games, but G-Darius captured my imagination just a little more with its impressive boss intros, capture mechanic, and laser battles.

Glad to see Cho Ren Sha 68K hanging around in the top 25 now. Last year wasn't a fluke. Even with it's limitations with the short looping background, I think its a phenomenal game. The level design, pacing, and game feel is amazing. I love the OST as well, I'll listen to it when I'm doing chores around the house and such. It's a brilliant game.

Also glad to see R-Type Delta back in the Top 25 as well. Delta does a really great job of taking the R-Type gameplay and adapting it to consoles with a longer run time (roughly 45 minutes if I recall correctly), easier recovery, and no damage when touching walls. The game is bursting with creativity and imaginative set pieces. R-Type Delta eases off the gas for the final level, which becomes very cinematic and more of a victory lap than anything. The full game still has plenty of bite though, it's no cakewalk.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by jehu »

Mars Matrix done dirty. Only the second 'miss' of all-time, right? Mobilize the "Go Play Mars Matrix" memes for next year.

And Gradius sadly losing the Hori-King throne to Darius - perhaps attributable to all our peers and colleagues snorting too much Cozmic Coke.

And Blazing Lazzerz taking an HM spot - the magic of the nostalgia thread.

I wonder if an earlier release of Thunder Dragon 2 would have kept that bad boy on the list. Hope it'll be seated in the top 15 one of these years - one can dream. And maybe we'll see Hishouzame in the list proper if M2 can lure enough people into the Toaplan Garage.

I appreciate the hustle, Nifty - fantastic work.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by To Far Away Times »

jehu wrote: And Blazing Lazzerz taking an HM spot - the magic of the nostalgia thread.
Blazing Lazers is really good though. It spawned a whole bunch of imitators and sorta sequels. Soldier Blade was my favorite of the lot, but Blazing Lazers sold very well. It might be one of the best selling shmups of all time. When you've got people like Kanye West going on twitter and talking about Blazing Lazers of all things, I think its shows the game had influence outside of just shmup players, it was a popular game that a lot people in the late 80's/early 90's wanted to play in general.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by jehu »

To Far Away Times wrote:
jehu wrote: And Blazing Lazzerz taking an HM spot - the magic of the nostalgia thread.
Blazing Lazers is really good though. It spawned a whole bunch of imitators and sorta sequels. Soldier Blade was my favorite of the lot, but Blazing Lazers sold very well. It might be one of the best selling shmups of all time. When you've got people like Kanye West going on twitter and talking about Blazing Lazers of all things, I think its shows the game had influence outside of just shmup players, it was a popular game that a lot people in the late 80's/early 90's wanted to play in general.
I've got no giant issues with Blazing Lazers - a great launch title, influential design, and I'm personally partial to Compile's sometimes divisive music. There are just much better games out there - there's Soldier Blade, and really a whole trove of other console shooters with more sophisticated design and without Blazing Lazer's clear flaws - the drawn-out levels and wobbly bullets. It's influential, but that's normally not the criteria that proves decisive for these lists.

It doesn't bother me that it's there. I just don't think it would have taken a spot without the well-timed nostalgia thread (and the rise of Junkie's influence and his nostalgic reveries likely helped quite a bit, too).
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

Progear no Arashi should be (ARC/SWI/PC) and Thunder Dragon 2 should be (ARC/SWI)

Just sayin...
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Nifty »

Looks like TD2 only just came out after voting was already finished so I'll leave it as-is for now (hope it does well)

There are so many releases that it's difficult to keep up with them all these days (not a bad problem or one I thought I'd even have, really), between that and trying to parse out 'actual' digital releases vs direct emulation platforms there's probably always going to be something partially missing
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Despatche »

It's fucking criminal that great games like Espgaluda or Dariusburst get kicked off the lists in favor of garbage like Gunhed or Batsugun. Just shove the list full of Compile garbage and meme games at this point, it might as well be accurate.

God, fuck Compile. How the fuck did the people who made one of the worst shmups of that generation, Musha Aleste, go on to make one of the best shmups of the early '90s, Mahou Daisakusen? It makes no goddamned sense. In fact, the only silver lining is that Mahou is on the lists while Musha isn't, thank fuck, though I'm sure that won't last either.

Stop asking me to vote or to proselytize, my words don't mean shit. This is a community problem, I can't magically fix it by myself, and noone wants to listen to me bitch about Compile for the 192836589724309673049876th time.

But wait, let me try anyway. Go play Thunder Dragon 2. Go play GG Aleste 3, far superior to any Compile game not named Zanac Neo. Go play cool shit like Blue Revolver and HellSinker, which should absolutely be up there with ZeroRanger. Most importantly, go play Gate of Thunder, the best goddamned console exclusive of the entire third and fourth generations of consoles.

And for fuck's sake, go play some Espgaluda. Never let that game be removed from the top 25.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Despatche wrote:God, fuck Compile. How the fuck did the people who made one of the worst shmups of that generation, Musha Aleste
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

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That's the dinosaur that started AIDS! Good kill! :shock:
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by PerishedFraud ឵឵ »

Sengoku Strider wrote:'Spatchy, you seem unsettled. Here, there's nothing like a chill D-Force gif to relax with.
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BIL
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by BIL »

Thanks as always Nifty :smile:

I'd probably have given TD2 top three, had I had more than a week or so with it. Despite its absolute simplicity next to Raiden DX and Garegga, it's every bit the desert island game I consider them to be. Nonstop adrenaline rush, perfectly complementing Dangun. It's also uncannily pitch-perfect on the most basic move/shoot fundamentals. Some games just feel great to control - this one of 'em, and it's got exactly the waveshredder incentive to keep you moving at redline. It even solves the ol' bombspammin/bombfamine dilemma, awarding the capacity bonus at the max bomb, rather than after it - giving you not only a sparing emergency escape, if you get in over your head, but also an iframe-surfing breakneck aggression recalling Psyvariar, of all things. Chuck the bomb, get a bomb, repeat, amazing fun.

I think I might bump Kamui up next year too, it's easily proven itself among its major label inspirations at this point.
m.sniffles.esq wrote:Progear no Arashi should be (ARC/SWI/PC) and Thunder Dragon 2 should be (ARC/SWI)
Both of those are on PS4 too, though I can't endorse that version of Capcom Arcade Stadium sans caveat, as it currently is - tolerable, but noticeable input lag. Patch it up pls Capcom, don't be like Digital Eclipse and leave me with my dick in my hand. 3;

PS4 ACA TD2 meanwhile is perfect, as can now be expected of Hamster, approaching a decade of consistent excellence.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Creamy Goodness »

Can't really speak much on the list as I don't really see anything too controversial, but kind of surprised Ikaruga is so high. That seems to be a very polarizing game so it seems like it would have trouble ranking high on a best if list.
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To Far Away Times
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by To Far Away Times »

Well, the thing with Ikaruga is that it really is a great game on its own merits, it's just not the only game in town like many outside the genre would believe. The polarity system doesn't neccisarily elevate it above all other shmups, even if that mechanic is novel.

Feels like a worthy of the Top 25 game to me, but Ikaruga has an outsized legacy relative to some its peers.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Herr Schatten »

Thanks again, Nifty.

The list needs more Alfa System, but apart from that it seems largely fine. Seeing R-Type Delta re-entering the top 25 makes me happy, even though I didn't vote for it.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

Both of those are on PS4 too,

Whoops

Guess what system I don't have?

There are so many releases that it's difficult to keep up with them all these days (not a bad problem or one I thought I'd even have, really), between that and trying to parse out 'actual' digital releases vs direct emulation platforms there's probably always going to be something partially missing

Yeah, I was just bringing it to your attention is case you did an edit, not being all "well, actually..."
As always, thanks for doing this.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by PerishedFraud ឵឵ »

No Out Zone to be seen anywhere.

A sad day for humanity.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by BIL »

ShotTriggers Ver will bring justice, a veritable PRESENT OF BULLETS FOR THE CROWD you might say (`w´メ)
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Some-Mist »

kinda prefer the honorable mentions list more than the actual list. eschatos, espgaluda II, ibara, mahou daisakusen, mars matrix, muchi muchi pork, progear, thunder dragon 2
poor dimahoo D:

crazy that deathsmiles is #25 and was close to getting knocked off the list. it's not in my personal top 25, but I like it for a reason that's kinda similar to mars matrix... it just feels so good to be able to do so much with so very few inputs (left shot and right shot that you can hold or tap to change the shot type or holding both buttons together for lock-on shot). including bombing you can do everything with 3 buttons instead of binding 6+ (1 button in the case of mars matrix). it just feels very clever while playing it and it's one game I actually prefer tapping when wanting to use the rapid fire

thanks for putting it together again nifty
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Creamy Goodness wrote:Can't really speak much on the list as I don't really see anything too controversial, but kind of surprised Ikaruga is so high. That seems to be a very polarizing game so it seems like it would have trouble ranking high on a best if list.
If anything it's this list which is controversial on that front. It's undeniably an incredibly well made game, as near as I can tell the only major knock against it is that some don't like that it can be seen as having a 'correct' route rather than allowing for more improvisation (the same of which can be said of DDP). But the creativity of the boss patterns, its epic scale, its challenge and responsiveness still stand out.

(I'm speaking generally here, I actually had it a bit lower on my list this year).
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Some-Mist »

I mean that's my biggest knock against it. I keep forcing myself to replay ikaruga to try to get a couple S++ scores (I struggle to get past "A" scores most the time) but it's just not a fun game to play that way. When I'm in the middle of a chain if I miss an enemy, I purposely let some ships fly off the screen so that I can stay within the chain and get the correct color enemy, but doing that kinda hurts my soul/feels horrible, but it also feels horrible to break the chain. you won't find daioujou in my list either (but I did squeeze dodonpachi on there because it's a lot more fun for me to play)

I much prefer bullet cancelling, point blanking, medal chaining etc

and when thinking about scoring in different games it always gets me to second guess where I'm ranking futari because it's one of my favorite games, but the original mode scoring is soooo stupid. it's something that maniac/god does a lot better which is why I still feel okay about having it near the top of my list, but then I think to myself... is maniac/god actually a lot better or does it just feel that way because it's more purposeful than switching shot types at different scoring intervals? :|
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by SPM »

I've said it before but... Ikaruga is only strict when going for those high scores, like most games at high level. Until then you have MANY possible routes and recovery options, unlike many other games. For A ranks, endless possibilities. I think most people that say it's strict don't go as far as getting more than A's, so I assume they watched superplays and reached that conclusion. Superplays are not representative of how most of us are able/want to play.

The other possible problem I see is the "completist" approach. If the game didn't give us ranks we'd be as happy with a high S+ score as with a low S++ score (or even an A score), but that rank is like a 1CC, we want to "complete" it.

Just enjoy the game your way :D

-----

But I'm being a hypocrite, because I share those feelings against Garegga hahaha I guess I'll need to try and enjoy it my way ;) (if only I could see the bullets and didn't have to manipulate the rank system) :P
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by To Far Away Times »

Ikaruga takes a simple concept and pushes it as far as it can go (opposite color = 2x damage and there's no get out of jail bomb are really great design choices), and the production values are incredibly slick too. I do think its a little "stiff" in that the game is pretty upfront that there's going to be an optimal scoring path and scoring well will involve runs that look very similar to eachother. I did actually play Ikaruga for score a bit, trying to get high letter grades in the first few stages atleast before switching to survival oriented play.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by blazinglazers69 »

Sengoku Strider wrote: The only thing missing from this list is a good old fashioned Compile entry in the top 25. Come on, who needs Cho Ren Sha when there's Aleste out there to be had?
Based comfy Compile. Our time will come. Also, regarding Blazing Lazers making a comeback--I'd give a lot of credit to ShmupJunkie for that as he's said multiple times that it's a good starting point to classic shooters, which I wholeheartedly agree with. I understand the sentiment that Compile games are too slow, but to noobs or someone who wants a lesser degree of difficulty, they're great. Yeah, the first few levels are not too exciting for me anymore, but to keep things in perspective, imagine a kid in the 90s who's never played a shooter before. That was the intended audience. It's a gateway drug, and a damn good one (although Soldier Blade is even better, yes.)

Aesthetic and music are also huge to me and I've always loved Compile for that. Everyone wants to flex and beat the hardest games, but ultimately shooters to me are about FUN--not JUST difficulty. And this will always be highly subjective.

Gun-Nac in particular is one of the most impressive and charming games in the entire NES library. Super Aleste's chill soundtrack is really unique and the mode 7, gorgeous backgrounds, tons of weapons/approaches, and all with the zero slowdown they pulled off on the SNES is truly a programming feat. The harder difficulties can challenge even experienced players as well. It's one of those games I play through at least once a year. And MUSHA? Holy hell it's badass. Some of the best aesthetics on the Genesis.

Y'all can stick with your danmakus. I'll take the classic dad-makus.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by Lethe »

It's well established by now that Cave games are also dadmaku, just by dads who want to look hardcore.
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Re: 19th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

Post by EmperorIng »

Thanks for the hard work yet again nifty.

I'm a little conflicted by the results (a natural feeling).
Herr Schatten wrote: The list needs more Alfa System
I mean it's lacking in games people have actually played, lol. Where are all these Battle Garegga players? There's one new post in the score thread for all of 2021. That's about 20 less than Rolling Gunner, which is one of the best-designed new shooters to come out in ages. You all have taken your Battle Garegga copies out of their collector's edition packaging, right? You're not pulling the guru maneuver of just having one "for fun?"

Like was said in the discussion thread, I think ZeroRanger coasts off its great first impression and will for some time because people won't change their votes from year to year. I like the game but the fact that it's risen high while other games have fallen off (or ignored entirely) tells me a bit about the playing habits on the ol' farm.

I mean Blazing fucking Lasers, lmao, are we like those goombahs from the Super Mario Bros movie, being shot with the devolution gun? I've just spent some time the last few weeks playing Kiki Kaikai, Phelios, and Thunder Dragon 2, and those dadmaku -even the simplistic Kiki Kaikai- curbstomp compile so hard it's like watching a soyboy be shredded apart for mansplaining on twitter.
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