ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project [KS]

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jehu
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by jehu »

Backers just received an email to vote on which game we'd like to have creator commentary for:

1. Kyuukyoku Tiger
2. Tatsujin
3. Zero Wing

What game would you all vote for?

A hard choice between #1 and #2 for me, but I think my vote leans towards Tatsujin. Though really, I'd like to hear all three with commentary.

K. Tiger's the most classic of the three, and it would be nice to hear about the design philosophy that made it all happen. But the K. Tiger's design is much more straightforward, intuitive and readable than the other games', so something tells me it might be less interesting. Plus, there's a lot already out there - only so many times I need to hear about the ramen bowl anecdote.

I'd be really interested to hear an elaboration on Tatsujin's design philosophy - which, as I've learned from spending a little time here on the farm, is still a rather polarizing topic. As good a time for force Yuge to explain yourself as we'll ever have.

Given its development history and all-hands-on-deck collaborative style, Zero Wing might be the most interesting of all. Though, as one of my lower-tier Toaplan games, this one just doesn't personally do much for me.
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bcass
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by bcass »

I want to know if any of them were able to 1CC Tatsujin Oh.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Steven »

I voted for Kyuukyoku Tiger without hesitation. It is by far my favourite of those choices, but also because it's probably a more influential title for the genre than Tatsujin and especially Zero Wing, and also because I want to see both Yuge-san and Uemura-san talking about a game they made together. Uemura-san had nothing to do with Tatsujin and Yuge-san's only contribution to Zero Wing was the stage 4 music as far as I understand, so yeah. Yuge-san will be discussing his design philosophy (although likely in general instead of focusing solely on one game) in his personal segment in the bonus features anyway.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by EmperorIng »

No question, Kyuukyoku Tiger.

If Zero Wing wins it will be a giant waste of time in which all they talk about are the memes, awkwardly, for maybe 10 minutes. As it is the biggest waste of time and pointless, it is likely that this will actually be what wins because shmup fans and sick-grabbers are typically lacking in good taste.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Sumez »

K.Tiger seems like the most obvious choice, but I figure more interesting points and anecdotes could potentially be brought up for Tatsujin. It's a game I'm much more familiar with myself as well, but that's really my own fault. :)

Please don't vote Zero Wing.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Kyuukyoku Tiger is unquestionably the correct choice because it maximizes the chances they'll also talk about the greatest Toaplan game ever, Get Star, because it recently had that M2 release which had both games. 8)
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jehu
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by jehu »

EmperorIng wrote:If Zero Wing wins it will be a giant waste of time in which all they talk about are the memes, awkwardly, for maybe 10 minutes. As it is the biggest waste of time and pointless, it is likely that this will actually be what wins because shmup fans and sick-grabbers are typically lacking in good taste.
Hope you're wrong, but we'll see. I thought, perhaps naively, that the majority of contributors to the campaign would pony up for the project not for the meme value, but for a longer personal history playing the games. No doubt Zero Wing will draw the memers. But I expect Tatsujin to have a strong following because, as I understand, Junkie is the biggest ride-or-die for the game - and I'm sure that will influence things. Happily, there are plenty of Japanese contributors that will be immune to the Zero Wing meme-factor, and I expect their demographic will lean towards K. Tiger.

I think I also might lean K. Tiger - Steven's point about the Yuge / Uemura collaborative commentary is rather persuasive in the face of a Tatsujin commentary that would likely be dominated by Yuge alone.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Steven »

Iwabuchi Koetsu, the rarely-interviewed artist who worked on Kyuukyoku Tiger, Get Star, Slap Fight, both shark games, and a few other games, is involved in the documentary, as well. He did not work on Tatsujin or Zero Wing. It would be really cool if he's in the commentary for Kyuukyoku Tiger as well, as until now he's said absolutely nothing about his involvement in the game other than that he worked on it.

I wouldn't worry too much about Zero Wing commentary; Iwabuchi-san isn't the only rarely-interviewed person in the documentary; Nakaoka Shintaro, who I think has never been interviewed before, is here, and he worked on Zero Wing. Tomizawa Toshiaki is also here, and I don't think he's said much about his involvement with Zero Wing, either. Yuge-san didn't do much for Zero Wing from what I remember, but Uemura-san knows pretty much everything about everything he's ever worked on. How the hell he can remember stuff that he did that long ago is completely beyond me, but he does. I have no doubt that he'll share some cool stuff about Zero Wing if Zero Wing is selected.

Also remembered another staff member that was announced as being part of the documentary after the Kickstarter ended: Hayashi Miho. I don't think she has ever been interviewed at all before, either, and she worked on Zero Wing. Uemura-san called her one of the 2 best artists that ever worked at Toaplan, as well. If she joins in the Zero Wing commentary, that would be awesome. Putting the memes aside, Zero Wing might actually be a very interesting choice, as we'll get detailed accounts of Zero Wing from people that have literally never been heard from before.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by XtraSmiley »

All great points, and I don't have a dog in the fight, so I'll vote for whatever the majority here lean towards.

I'm really excited to see this thing and learn a lot of cool history.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Sengoku Strider »

EmperorIng wrote:No question, Kyuukyoku Tiger.

If Zero Wing wins it will be a giant waste of time in which all they talk about are the memes, awkwardly, for maybe 10 minutes. As it is the biggest waste of time and pointless, it is likely that this will actually be what wins because shmup fans and sick-grabbers are typically lacking in good taste.
I'm quite sure the memes will be well-covered in the film proper, given it's in the title. Shmup Junkie's involved in the project and he did a 32 minute video just breaking down the differences between the PC Engine & Mega Drive versions of Zero Wing, I don't think you've got much to worry about in that department.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by hamfighterx »

jehu wrote:K. Tiger's design is much more straightforward, intuitive and readable than the other games', so something tells me it might be less interesting. Plus, there's a lot already out there - only so many times I need to hear about the ramen bowl anecdote.

I'd be really interested to hear an elaboration on Tatsujin's design philosophy - which, as I've learned from spending a little time here on the farm, is still a rather polarizing topic. As good a time for force Yuge to explain yourself as we'll ever have.
I voted for Tatsujin based on the exact same logic. But Steven's point about K Tiger having both Yuge and Uemura talking about a game they made together is a good one. Either of those two games is OK as long as it isn't Zero Wing. But at least the crowd here seems pretty unanimous in that regard!
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Joseph Pierce »

Hello, I am the director of this film and I wanted to clear up a few things.
First of all, thank you all for your support and interest in the project! It makes me really happy to see discussions like this and talk of Toaplan in general.

As for the film itself, we don't really plan on talking about the zero wing meme that much at all.
Frankly, I wanted to use something that kind of teases Toaplan and turn it on its head for the title,
using that meme's fame in order to hopefully bring more attention to the company itself. Most people just know that stupid meme
and have no idea about Toaplan. It's bait to catch more fish, get people to watch that otherwise aren't interested in Shmups, that's the idea.

And the words themselves have the nuance or atmosphere of "Toaplan kicks everyone's ass, Toaplan's the greatest." I am a huge fan of everything they created and love the former staff, so my main focus will be on the people and the games, and not on poor translations.

As for the Zero Wing commentary, we have six people that worked on the game being interviewed for the documentary (plus one more person we haven't announced) versus one person that worked on Tatsujin (Yuge-san) and three people that worked on Kyuukyoku Tiger (Iwabuchi Koetsu, Uemura Tatsuya, Yuge Masahiro) Either way you vote, I am certain the commentary will be a lot of fun. We definitely will not be talking about "all your base" for the commentary of zero wing, as in fact, most of the people that worked on the game only have just recently even heard about the meme.

The only reason I put Zero Wing as one of the potential choices is because I love the hell out of the game, and a lot of really entertaining people worked on it.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Steven »

Well, I have a few things to say.

First, I'm kind of surprised that nobody's really talking to Joe in this thread since he is here now, and that it's gone seemingly unnoticed, or at least without any commentary, for like a month and a half now. I didn't notice it myself, though, although I am not really sure how I missed it.

Second is that there really isn't much of a point in hiding it at this point since Joe is here and literally the post directly above me; I am friends with Joe IRL, so believe me when I say that he absolutely knows what he's doing and we talk about Toaplan ALL THE TIME, so yeah, trust me, there's probably nobody in the world who could do a better job. No, I can't talk about the documentary myself other than that, but any concerns about a potential Zero Wing commentary are completely needless. This does lead to my third point.

Currently, Tatsujin is winning the poll by a large margin as of right now anyway, and with Zero Wing in last place. The poll deadline been extended to the 16th, so if you didn't vote yet, you should probably do that.

Finally,
Joseph Pierce wrote:"Toaplan kicks everyone's ass, Toaplan's the greatest."
Damn right.
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bcass
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by bcass »

As a backer of this project, I would like to see some discussion on Tatsujin Oh. I want to know what they think of the unfair design elements that make it so difficult - things like the lives icons obscuring the ship, explosions obscuring bullets, etc. I know that there was mounting pressure to make games harder to take more credits, but maybe there is more to it. I also want to know how they play-tested it, and if any of them were able to complete it on a single credit. I'm currently playing this game a lot at the moment so these are pertinent questions.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Steven »

bcass wrote:if any of them were able to complete it on a single credit
Here you go.

https://www.gamengai.com/#/cmnt-info?id=2332&p=4
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bcass
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by bcass »

Haha, yep, I suspected as much. Thanks for the link though, some interesting bits of info in there.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Angry Hina »

Is something of this project buyable till now?
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Steven »

Not yet. Still in production.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Skyknight »

Zero Wing's interesting in that it originally wasn't planned to be published! It was originally a way for Toaplan newcomers to cut their teeth, but it somehow came up for public consideration anyway. (Uemura isn't terribly fond of the finished product.)
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Steven »

Director Joe came back from fucking Malaysia just now on business, and here he is in my house, playing my fucking Out Zone at 0200!

Image
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Bar81 »

Steven wrote:Director Joe came back from fucking Malaysia just now on business, and here he is in my house, playing my fucking Out Zone at 0200!

Image
Nice. Important question: Which version is he playing?

Image
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project

Post by Steven »

My PCB is the one MAME calls Out Zone. There are a bunch of variants that MAME calls (old), (older), (oldest), and (harder), and there is also the legendary Zero Wing -> Out Zone conversion PCB that seems to use the (harder) version, but mine is none of these, just the regular version with none of the descriptors.

Anyway, yeah, I can't really talk about the documentary at all, but production is proceeding. It's going to be fucking awesome!
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project [KS]

Post by Steven »

So what did you guys think of the IKD interview?
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project [KS]

Post by MJR »

Steven wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:30 am So what did you guys think of the IKD interview?
Didn't have a chance to watch it yet, as the links were still offline last night here (according to Joe, "The pages weren't available until 08/31 10 am Japan time"). Will watch tonight.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project [KS]

Post by _rm_ »

Is there a new IKD interview? Can you please inform where?

Thanks
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project [KS]

Post by MJR »

_rm_ wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:38 am Is there a new IKD interview? Can you please inform where?

Thanks
Only for backers who bid 7,5000 yen or more. Those have received the email already.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project [KS]

Post by Steven »

MJR wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:17 am
Steven wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:30 am So what did you guys think of the IKD interview?
Didn't have a chance to watch it yet, as the links were still offline last night here (according to Joe, "The pages weren't available until 08/31 10 am Japan time"). Will watch tonight.
That's weird. I was able to download and watch mine at about 0930 this morning. If you got everything in the end, I guess it worked out okay.

As for the interview itself, it's almost like a mini documentary on the making of V-V. It's awesome. It also gave us the weirdest description of a shooting game in history:

"It was like inflation or something!" - IKD on Tatsujin

I also wonder if people will FINALLY actually go play Slap Fight now that IKD is officially on record for all eternity saying that Slap Fight is really awesome. For those of you seeing this in the future, just remember that I loved Slap Fight before it was cool to do so~ Actually, it was always cool to love Slap Fight, but you know what I mean.

There is so much information in here that has never been revealed before, even in just the credits, as we now finally have complete credits for Tiger-Heli, Slap Fight, Hishouzame, Wardner, Dash Yarou, Kyuukyoku Tiger, V-V, Batsugun, and more.

Speaking of the credits, you'll see Ogiwara Naoki credited as Ogihara instead of Ogiwara. Ogihara is actually his real name, and that is how he is credited in DonPachi. Due to how Japanese pronunciation works, Ogiwara is considered easier to say than Ogihara, so everyone calls him that. There is also how 原 can be read in several ways, including both wara and hara.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project [KS]

Post by MJR »

Steven wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:43 am
MJR wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:17 am
Steven wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:30 am So what did you guys think of the IKD interview?
Didn't have a chance to watch it yet, as the links were still offline last night here (according to Joe, "The pages weren't available until 08/31 10 am Japan time"). Will watch tonight.
That's weird. I was able to download and watch mine at about 0930 this morning. If you got everything in the end, I guess it worked out in the end.
There was nothing weird about it, just a time zone difference. Link works now, but I got other things I need to do, so I'll watch it later in the evening.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project [KS]

Post by Steven »

MJR wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 8:04 am
Steven wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:43 am
MJR wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:17 am

Didn't have a chance to watch it yet, as the links were still offline last night here (according to Joe, "The pages weren't available until 08/31 10 am Japan time"). Will watch tonight.
That's weird. I was able to download and watch mine at about 0930 this morning. If you got everything in the end, I guess it worked out in the end.
There was nothing weird about it, just a time zone difference. Link works now, but I got other things I need to do, so I'll watch it later in the evening.
I mean it was weird that I was able to get mine early somehow but you weren't. I'm not really sure how Vimeo works, though.
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Re: ATTN: All Toaplan-heads - Developer Documentary Project [KS]

Post by MJR »

Steven wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 8:11 am
MJR wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 8:04 am
Steven wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:43 am
That's weird. I was able to download and watch mine at about 0930 this morning. If you got everything in the end, I guess it worked out in the end.
There was nothing weird about it, just a time zone difference. Link works now, but I got other things I need to do, so I'll watch it later in the evening.
I mean it was weird that I was able to get mine early somehow but you weren't. I'm not really sure how Vimeo works, though.
How it can be weird, if you are in Tokyo and I am in Finland? I am six hours behind you :roll:
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