TATE Astro mini with Batrider, Batsugun, Outzone and more!

[MintyTheCat]

Might need to check the other Minis now. Neo, Egret etc

The NG Mini is a bit annoying in that when you plug in the HDMI it cuts off the 3.5 audio jack which means that unless you have a display that has audio you have to find another means by which to get audio out. I have heard that the HDMI is not that amazing either. However, I've quite enjoyed the NG Mini for occasional games at the work desk all the same.

The Egret looks very nice but the stock game line-up failed to appeal to me.

[Tarma]

Played some more the titles last night for about an hour, again to the TV in tate mode with the Sega control pad.

Raiden and Tatsujin Oh play fine to me, as does Dogyuun. Same with Sonic Wings and Strikers.

Tried Desert Breaker.....ugh, what a terrible game. Couldn't care less if that suffered with lag, it's a really poor Mercs clone.

The only gripe I have is with Same! Even on "easy" it's hard as fuck. I really enjoy this on the MD and the recent M2 PS4 port is awesome... this version though... makes me want to tear my hair out. I'm sure an expert would breeze through it... I can't even get past the first stage at the moment.


Oh, and does anyone know if Sega are planning to release more controllers - especially the stick? I'm not paying the dumb prices offered on eBay, and Amazon doesn't appear to have any stock.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Tried Desert Breaker.....ugh, what a terrible game. Couldn't care less if that suffered with lag, it's a really poor Mercs clone.

Desert Breaker is great, man. Blatant clone, it is, but the only poor thing about it is the distribution it got. Together with Super Contra and the Capcom game it's based on, one the most tense and intense shooting action you'll find from those years. Curious to know if it got the glitches it has with Mame in this version as well, as seems obvious that Mame has been used here once again.

[DenimDemon]

Played some more the titles last night for about an hour, again to the TV in tate mode with the Sega control pad.

Raiden and Tatsujin Oh play fine to me, as does Dogyuun. Same with Sonic Wings and Strikers.

Tried Desert Breaker.....ugh, what a terrible game. Couldn't care less if that suffered with lag, it's a really poor Mercs clone.

The only gripe I have is with Same! Even on "easy" it's hard as fuck. I really enjoy this on the MD and the recent M2 PS4 port is awesome... this version though... makes me want to tear my hair out. I'm sure an expert would breeze through it... I can't even get past the first stage at the moment.


Oh, and does anyone know if Sega are planning to release more controllers - especially the stick? I'm not paying the dumb prices offered on eBay, and Amazon doesn't appear to have any stock.

Auto save the heck out of Same! just a button away on C. Hold C for a second to load.

[Tarma]

Tried Desert Breaker.....ugh, what a terrible game. Couldn't care less if that suffered with lag, it's a really poor Mercs clone.

Desert Breaker is great, man. Blatant clone, it is, but the only poor thing about it is the distribution it got. Together with Super Contra and the Capcom game it's based on, one the most tense and intense shooting action you'll find from those years. Curious to know if it got the glitches it has with Mame in this version as well, as seems obvious that Mame has been used here once again.

Um, well, it's Sega, so I'll give it a second chance.... but first impression was not good. Can't confirm where the ROM came from - what are the MAME glitches to watch out for?

[MintyTheCat]

Finally got back home and have just spent a few hours playing on it.

No issues with latency nor lag that I could detect.
Batrider, tatsujin-ou & raiden I played extensively. I am very accustomed to raiden on many platforms and have played tatsujin-ou exclusively on PCB for years.

I can honestly say that this is completely fine for gaming.

I'm using a quality USB charger rated at 2A as a test and have a 3A charger on order.
The 2A is fine and I see no issues.

I am very, very pleased and may not pass it to the gf for birthday now

Shmup on, brothers.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Tried Desert Breaker.....ugh, what a terrible game. Couldn't care less if that suffered with lag, it's a really poor Mercs clone.

Desert Breaker is great, man. Blatant clone, it is, but the only poor thing about it is the distribution it got. Together with Super Contra and the Capcom game it's based on, one the most tense and intense shooting action you'll find from those years. Curious to know if it got the glitches it has with Mame in this version as well, as seems obvious that Mame has been used here once again.

Um, well, it's Sega, so I'll give it a second chance.... but first impression was not good. Can't confirm where the ROM came from - what are the MAME glitches to watch out for?

It's more complex than Mercs, you'll see.

It's been long now and curiously Mame Testers doesn't mention them, but they were quite evident - basically any scaling sprite was broken stage 2 on wards.

[lovecraft]

Finally got back home and have just spent a few hours playing on it.

No issues with latency nor lag that I could detect.
Batrider, tatsujin-ou & raiden I played extensively. I am very accustomed to raiden on many platforms and have played tatsujin-ou exclusively on PCB for years.

I can honestly say that this is completely fine for gaming.

I'm using a quality USB charger rated at 2A as a test and have a 3A charger on order.
The 2A is fine and I see no issues.

I am very, very pleased and may not pass it to the gf for birthday now

Shmup on, brothers.

Good news

I doubt a more powerful amperage would change something, if the Mini is set to 2A to work, it will only take what it needs.

[MintyTheCat]

Finally got back home and have just spent a few hours playing on it.

No issues with latency nor lag that I could detect.
Batrider, tatsujin-ou & raiden I played extensively. I am very accustomed to raiden on many platforms and have played tatsujin-ou exclusively on PCB for years.

I can honestly say that this is completely fine for gaming.

I'm using a quality USB charger rated at 2A as a test and have a 3A charger on order.
The 2A is fine and I see no issues.

I am very, very pleased and may not pass it to the gf for birthday now

Shmup on, brothers.

Good news

I doubt a more powerful amperage would change something, if the Mini is set to 2A to work, it will only take what it needs.

True, but I would add that the quality and stability of the supply is also a factor - a poorly designed USB device will not guarantee the constant supply of current and DC level. But, I am using a charger device for a smart phone that charges very quickly - which implies that it's a stable supply to permit fast charging.

They really could have avoided all of this by simply supplying a PSU that would be up to the mark but I dare say that thought it was not worth the additional cost.

[SavagePencil]

do you mind posting the specific brand/model of charger you've got? Somebody's gotta be able to do a side-by-side comparison.

[MintyTheCat]

do you mind posting the specific brand/model of charger you've got? Somebody's gotta be able to do a side-by-side comparison.

A good idea: can the OP : moonblood make a table for all the different USB chargers tried and the results, please?

I'll add the USB charger than I'm using once I switch the thing off - having a bit too much fun with it right now

[Tarma]

I'm using Nintendo's own branded USB adaptor plug which can be used with the Switch and SNES mini.

[banjoted]

My Pi3 AD adapter turned up today. Can't really notice any discernable difference - by that meaning that things still largely feel snappy. Having scrutinised it a bit more closely (against my better judgement) I think perhaps Bakraid is a little sluggish, but other than that I have zero complaints. I find the UI moaning particularly odd - it's nowt special, sure, but it gets the job done with zero hassle.

[Rastan78]

The person who posted those original numbers has gone so far to test with a bench PSU and couldn't reduce the lag.

He's asked if anyone can provide definitive proof that different PSUs can reduce the lag. So that twitter acct might be a good place to watch for new info if anything surfaces.

https://twitter.com/moftsoft/status/155 ... QREpQ&s=19

[Jonpachi]

I think we can pretty concretely put away the notion that certain PSUs are suddenly going to make this run like we wish it did.

I'm on a 5V 2.4A strip, and I've been spending hours every day playing it, with Battle Bakraid as my main. While I've settled in a bit to the "flow" of how these games run, I never really feel comfortable or "forget" that I'm playing a very hampered version.

I don't mean to throw skill-shade on others, but playing through the first two opening levels of a game is not really giving much indication of where the real hiccups are. It's when you're deep into practicing a game, and find yourself basically required to predict movement through hardcore rote memorization that it really starts to fall apart. I've been able to push up into the final stage of Normal Course in Bakraid on a credit, but that's only due to save-state practice to get my predictive routing down. Simple back-and-forth patterns that should be basic become stressful, luck-based moves where I'm no longer reacting to what I'm being given but rather queueing up moves a few frames ahead so I'm in the correct position when I need to be. Bakraid is a very forgiving game in this regard (at least on Normal Course) but I can't imagine the pain that trying to clear a loop on one of the Psikyo games would entail.

That said, I still think this has value as a casino buffet of arcade classics. You get to sample a LOT of amazing stuff, and there's a lot of play value here. Just know that the macaroni is stale, and you should avoid the fish.

[DenimDemon]

Let me throw another theory then. Games feel more responsive when played on a control pad rather than on the V stick.

[Jonpachi]

Oh let me clarify then. Playing on an ultra-low-lag Asus G-Sync monitor with the Sega Megadrive Mini pad.

Nobody seriously tries to "play" games ON the mini though right? Even if it was perfect, why would you hurt yourself like that?

[MintyTheCat]

Arguably all games when emulated or when converted and passed through different hardware such as displays are not equal to the original.

A little akin to an act of magic: do we notice it enough such that we aren't convinced - does it serve the illusion of 'being the real thing' sufficiently enough?

We've had this debate going on now for years and years. If a player learns to play the original on a PCB, they will see things that others do not in other versions.
I do not think that it was the intention of the companies that made this machine and the titles that it includes to offer expert level gaming. I'd argue more-over that their target was to make these titles available in an attractive form to people who played them in the past or who fancy having a go.

How many world class DDP players would practice of the PS1 or Saturn DDP port of even a version of MAME? When all is said and done it will never be exact and real like the PCB, and it will not really affect the vast majority of gamers in any case.

And one more point: Pro-Gamers...are a tiny, tiny fraction in the Shmup world of actual players. There will always be far more casual players to Pros and most casual players will not be attuned to such a degree that they notice these things in any case.

If they wished to then they could commission a top-end reproduction of the originals but the price incurred would immediately put the price of purchase up and that would in-turn have a different market group entirely and would not be commercially successful.

It's all about the market and the profit against the budget really.

[DenimDemon]

Lol!
Same set up here just different monitor, using AOC.

Having said that…I’m really enjoying Raiden on the unit.

[DenimDemon]

Does this make any sense?
https://twitter.com/STGshmups/status/15 ... tXkNi7kjHg

[Nugs]

do you mind posting the specific brand/model of charger you've got? Somebody's gotta be able to do a side-by-side comparison.

I've actually been using a 2.1A powerbank so that it is actually portable.
Some games do feel a little laggy but I'm still happy with it.

[MintyTheCat]

Does this make any sense?
https://twitter.com/STGshmups/status/15 ... tXkNi7kjHg

It does indeed: usually, a raw voltage is passed into a circuit and is then regulated. The raw input voltage may vary a bit, but the task of the regulator is to ensure that it delivers a solid, stable output level.

It may require a raw input level of +5V DC, but then requlate it to +3.3V DC or lower and there many be different voltage level requirements on a given PCB depending on what the design requires.

But yes: it needs a stable, solid 5V DC and enough current in order to supply the components and to ensure normal operation.
A poorly designed USB device may not be able to provide a stable signal and may source less current than it states it can.

Something like this:



The only way to really know is to connect the USB device to test equipment, give it a load and then observe how it performs.

Just buy a decent USB charger that can source at least 2A, 5V DC and try it.

Edit: one replier on the Twitter entry claims that the ACM-V only draws around 700mA or 0.7A - which would be closer to what I'd expect - 2A does seem really a large figure. For example: the MegaCD PSU can source 1.2A but that includes a mechanical CD drive which would require more current as a general rule. Until we get a schematic of the ASM-V it's really just speculation. I would imagine that the actual hardware design itself will be close enough to the standard example circuit in any case, so if someone knows which chip set the thing is based on then get the datasheets and start there to work it out. 2A is a mystery for now.

[lovecraft]

Mine arrived this morning.
Well, honestly it's better than I thought. I have played with the official pad and the response is good.
It's true that the ship may seem a little bit heavier to move in some games. Well, if you are a hardcore shmupper, do not expect to feel the exact same experience as on your cab, but it plays well enough.
The little screen has a nice quality, and the display on an external tv works fine. The "no filter" is the best choice in my opinion.
And it looks quite good, beautiful miniaturized cab and some good fun. I'm happy with it.

[lovecraft]

The AC adapter I use:
5.0V==2000mA
50/60Hz 0.5A

[m.sniffles.esq]

This thread is wild...

Just in the interest of thoroughness, it seems that Batrider was the inclusion people were most excited about, and was also the one that people were saying got crushed the hardest by the lag elephant. So I gave it a spin.

And... maybe? I really don't know. Batrider was imho a "How much crap can we cram on the screen?? THIS MUCH CRAP!!" shooter. I mean, I liked the concept of a 'street level' shooter, but always felt the execution was really fucking busy for the sake of being really fucking busy. And that's on a normal sized screen. On that tiny screen it's absolute chaos (I knew it would be, which is why I avoided it up until now). So really, the control could be razor sharp and it would still be pretty much unplayable.

Eventually, I'll move the Astro City into the room with my swing-barred monitor, and I'll be able to gave that game a proper look. But right now, I'm having fun with it on the coffee table, playing games that are actually--y'know--playable.

[Buffi]

So I'm sortof confused why power adapter would change anything in terms of input latency, but I tried this with a 1.5A and a 2.5A adapter, and maybe it does?

Don't get me wrong, this is still an unplayable mess at 2.5A too BUT, it seems a bit better?

Also, I don't really trust this myself cause like... why would the lower amp limit cause input latency when the game appears to run fullspeed? Makes no sense.

That said

This was tested with an iphone using slowmo mode in 240fps.
Raw data here: http://img.buffis.com/astromini/

I was getting aprox 30 240fps frames on 2.5A and 40 240fps frames on 3A.
That implies about 10 frames if input lag on 1.5A and 7.5 frames on 2.5A.
Tried it a few times. Timing is between stick fully reaches gate and sprite moves.

Very weird.

Would be good for someone else to run tests as well, since I don't really trust my data gathering here.

[Ghegs]

So I'm sortof confused why power adapter would change anything in terms of input latency

This was actually a thing with the Egret II Mini as well, and similar discussion took place there as well.

Re the input lag, it looks like the CPU clocks itself down if the power supply isn't supplying enough wattage; might be worth making sure youre not getting more input lag than you need to. https://twitter.com/gosokkyu/status/1499935078717476866

[Buffi]

So I'm sortof confused why power adapter would change anything in terms of input latency

This was actually a thing with the Egret II Mini as well, and similar discussion took place there as well.

Re the input lag, it looks like the CPU clocks itself down if the power supply isn't supplying enough wattage; might be worth making sure youre not getting more input lag than you need to. https://twitter.com/gosokkyu/status/1499935078717476866

But if the cpu clocked down, why would that only impact input latency and not gameplay?
If its clocked down, id expect everything to be slow, not just inputs.

[BillyKane]

So I'm sortof confused why power adapter would change anything in terms of input latency, but I tried this with a 1.5A and a 2.5A adapter, and maybe it does?

Don't get me wrong, this is still an unplayable mess at 2.5A too BUT, it seems a bit better?

Also, I don't really trust this myself cause like... why would the lower amp limit cause input latency when the game appears to run fullspeed? Makes no sense.

That said

This was tested with an iphone using slowmo mode in 240fps.
Raw data here: http://img.buffis.com/astromini/

I was getting aprox 30 240fps frames on 2.5A and 40 240fps frames on 3A.
That implies about 10 frames if input lag on 1.5A and 7.5 frames on 2.5A.
Tried it a few times. Timing is between stick fully reaches gate and sprite moves.

Very weird.

Would be good for someone else to run tests as well, since I don't really trust my data gathering here.

This seems to reflect my experience as well. Playing on my 5V 2A power adapter (which again, is within the recommended specs) most games feel completely unplayable to me. Using a 3A adapter that I received today seems to feel better, to the point where games like Batsugun or V-V actually feel almost fine.

There is still lag and Bakraid / Batrider are still unplayable IMO but it doesn't feel as bad overall. However I don't have the means to properly measure this and can't guarantee this is not just a placebo effect. It would be great if someone could test it using a scientific method.

[drunkninja24]

So one thing I'm curious about on this thing is mostly: is there any kind of list of controllers that are known to work? I was hoping either my Genesis Mini or my retrobit genesis/saturn 6 button pads would work on it but all those seem a no go. I've seen a couple videos where people have successfully used an 8bitdo M30 genesis-style pad to play on the non-V model (which I'm assuming this one uses the same basic hardware) but curious if there's anywhere such a listing exists (would also be nice to have a similar one for Egret II mini while we're at it).