M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

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Unadan360
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M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Unadan360 »

If you could only have one....

Which performs better? Switch version or PS4 version?
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Jonpachi
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Jonpachi »

PS4 will nearly always have slightly better performance than Switch. Esprade has been reported to have one more frame of lag on Switch vs PS4.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Esprade has been reported to have one more way to play portably on Switch vs PS4.

Really cannot go wrong with either, roll with your preferred platform. M2 have been consistently excellent across both, I've bought ShotTriggers stuff on both systems and come out happy each time.
PC Engine Fan X!
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

Still no sign of M2 ESP.ra.de. on the USA region eShop but it's cool playing it on the NSW platform.

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hamfighterx
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by hamfighterx »

Yeah, I have both and they're very close. PS4 does feel ever so slightly better to me, but I also have better control options there so that may influence me.

It's very solid on Switch though, can't go wrong there if you prefer the option to have portability. If you're playing off TV though, it's pretty hard to see well if not in TATE mode. I prefer to use a Hori stand and a pro controller in TATE. Flip Grip is an option too, but I just can't play this game well with Joycons...

FWIW, the Switch Aleste Collection is also fantastic, and I find that easier to play on Switch (particularly the GG Aleste titles) in horizontal mode due to the dimensions of the original GG screen feeling right with letterboxing.

I assume M2 will continue the good job on Switch ports with Kyukyoku Tiger, another one that feels like it won't be hard to play/see in portable mode in horizontal orientation. Mine's shipped and on the way now from Amazon.jp. But prob gonna get the PSN one tonight too ;)
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gbaplayer
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by gbaplayer »

How can i add more than 3 credits in the Switch Version.
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Creamy Goodness
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Creamy Goodness »

I went with PS4 simply because the Switch version costs nearly twice as much. I usually go Switch for my shmups, but I cannot justify the $110 before shipping price tag.
gbaplayer wrote:How can i add more than 3 credits in the Switch Version.
For the other M2 games you have to play them a few times before being able to add more credits. I assume it is the same for this.

Edit: Scratch last comment about price. I forgot this is 2022 and you can buy games digitally.
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by XtraSmiley »

If you’re worried about price, the MiSTer plays this and a few other CAVE games pretty well right now. I’m not sure about accuracy though.

As for these two, PS4 for me, and Amazon Japan plus shipping to the US was very good, especially since the dollar to yen conversion is so good right now.
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

XtraSmiley wrote:If you’re worried about price, the MiSTer plays this and a few other CAVE games pretty well right now. I’m not sure about accuracy though.
Forgive me, but if it's not accuracy, what are you considering to say that they're played pretty well?

Has Mister's Progear emulation been compared to the real thing after all these months? The guy behind it supposedly cares about accuracy more than any other.
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by XtraSmiley »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:
XtraSmiley wrote:If you’re worried about price, the MiSTer plays this and a few other CAVE games pretty well right now. I’m not sure about accuracy though.
Forgive me, but if it's not accuracy, what are you considering to say that they're played pretty well?

Has Mister's Progear emulation been compared to the real thing after all these months? The guy behind it supposedly cares about accuracy more than any other.
I've played ESPRADE and it seems pretty good with music and all. Being MiSTer I don't think there is lag that might be on a software emulated version, such as the M2 versions. That being said, I'm not even CLOSE to being a pro at this game, so I could not tell you how accurate the game is currently, nor can I beat it yet, so I'm not sure if it has problems in later stages.

That being said, MiSTer's emulation of CAVE games is coming along and will hopefully cover more games with better accuracy. Here is today's release, Dangun Feveron and Puzzle Uo Poko.

https://twitter.com/nullobject/status/1 ... 8700495873
Steven
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Steven »

It's M2 ShotTriggers. I wouldn't be surprised if it is actually faster than the PCB is when you turn the option to reduce input lag on, and if the MiSTer is 100% accurate to the PCB as it should be, M2 release > MiSTer. I haven't lag tested it (or played it), but I'm sure someone has.
Darkseed_5150
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Darkseed_5150 »

Switch cuz with a FlipGrip I can play in handheld TATE. Really wish Sony would do a handheld again.
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BrianC
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by BrianC »

I heard the flipgrip doesn't work with the oled switch? The new built-in stand is excellent for tabletop mode. If they make a flipgrip for the oled, I would be glad to get one. Finally found some decent controllers with a dpad that work with wireless. Nexigo joycons. The d-pad is stiff to start, but it works great after regular use.

I ended up getting both PS4 and Switch versions of esprade. Usually digital on one platform and physical on the other when I get both PS4 and Switch versions of M2 shottriggers.
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Steven »

Flip Grip is also currently unobtainable unless you live in Europe, and no, they don't ship outside of Europe. I tried.
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hamfighterx
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by hamfighterx »

BrianC wrote:I heard the flipgrip doesn't work with the oled switch? The new built-in stand is excellent for tabletop mode. If they make a flipgrip for the oled, I would be glad to get one. Finally found some decent controllers with a dpad that work with wireless. Nexigo joycons. The d-pad is stiff to start, but it works great after regular use.

I ended up getting both PS4 and Switch versions of esprade. Usually digital on one platform and physical on the other when I get both PS4 and Switch versions of M2 shottriggers.
The Flipgrip works fine with OLED Switch, I was just using mine this week without issue. Maybe it's a slightly tighter fit (I'm going by memory as I no longer have an OG Switch), but it certainly doesn't damage anything and the system slides into place just fine. I'm using a flipgrip from the original production run (Kickstarter backer), but I'm not aware they ever made any changes. Unfortunate that it's much harder to get these days though.

For another option, I'll also recommend the Hori PlayStand (Amazon US link) for TATE mode. Works quite well, and isn't limited to Joycons like the flipgrip. I like to use mine with a first party pro controller (which, while not perfect, is a preferable control option to a joycon stick to me). Does need to sit on a flat surface in front of you instead of being an actual handheld, but it has a nice viewing angle.
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BrianC
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by BrianC »

I have a hori playstand and I like it quite a bit.
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Steven »

I forgot about that Hori stand. I've just been laying my Switch on my desk as if it was one of those table arcade machine thingies that you look downwards at and using a Saturn controller.
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

XtraSmiley wrote:
Bassa-Bassa wrote:
XtraSmiley wrote:If you’re worried about price, the MiSTer plays this and a few other CAVE games pretty well right now. I’m not sure about accuracy though.
Forgive me, but if it's not accuracy, what are you considering to say that they're played pretty well?

Has Mister's Progear emulation been compared to the real thing after all these months? The guy behind it supposedly cares about accuracy more than any other.
I've played ESPRADE and it seems pretty good with music and all. Being MiSTer I don't think there is lag that might be on a software emulated version, such as the M2 versions. That being said, I'm not even CLOSE to being a pro at this game, so I could not tell you how accurate the game is currently, nor can I beat it yet, so I'm not sure if it has problems in later stages.

That being said, MiSTer's emulation of CAVE games is coming along and will hopefully cover more games with better accuracy. Here is today's release, Dangun Feveron and Puzzle Uo Poko.

https://twitter.com/nullobject/status/1 ... 8700495873
Steven wrote:It's M2 ShotTriggers. I wouldn't be surprised if it is actually faster than the PCB is when you turn the option to reduce input lag on, and if the MiSTer is 100% accurate to the PCB as it should be, M2 release > MiSTer. I haven't lag tested it (or played it), but I'm sure someone has.
Mister is rarely 100% accurate for any system, there's this misconception that it's different to "software emulators" in this regard just because it uses FPGA, but if the original hardware is not 100% documented, there's nothing they can do other than approximations like software emulators have been doing all these years. It's free of some unneeded crap you usually find with the latter, yeah, but you can even achieve no additional lag (both, input and audio) these days with stuff like Groovymame, or close enough.

Fortunately, some FPGA coders have been putting some effort to fix many bugs and inaccuracies Mame, for example, has been suffering from all these decades, but I'm afraid not all are this dedicated. The guy I linked to is one of those, and Mister's CPS2 emulation is his doing (Progear), but last I heard, Mister's Dodonpachi emulation was not perfect at all (not more than Mame's, at least, though that's considered to be very good these days), and that's the first Cave game to appear on Mister, so I have my reservations to believe that Esprade's "perfect" for now as this other guy's work is so slow. Progear, on the other hand, is a better candidate, and I've always found so odd that a comparison with the real thing was never made here in regards to slowdown accuracy.


EDIT/ Sorry, I hadn't linked to Jotego's as I believed - he's here:

https://twitter.com/topapate
Last edited by Bassa-Bassa on Tue May 17, 2022 9:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
Steven
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Steven »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:Mister is rarely 100% accurate for any system, there's this misconception that it's different to "software emulators" in this regard just because it uses FPGA, but if the original hardware is not 100% documented, there's nothing they can do other than approximations like software emulators have been doing all these years. It's free of some unneeded crap you usually find with the latter, yeah, but you can even achieve no additional lag (both, input and audio) these days with stuff like Groovymame, or close enough.

Fortunately, some FPGA coders have been putting some effort to fix many bugs and inaccuracies Mame, for example, has been suffering from all these decades, but I'm afraid not all are this dedicated. The guy I linked to is one of those, and Mister's CPS2 emulation is his doing (Progear), but last I heard, Mister's Dodonpachi emulation was not perfect at all (not more than Mame's, at least, though that's considered to be very good these days), and that's the first Cave game to appear on Mister, so I have my reservations to believe that Esprade's "perfect" for now as this other guy's work is so slow. Progear, on the other hand, is a better candidate, and I've always find so odd that a comparison with the real thing was never made here in regards to slowdown accuracy.
Yeah, I know. That's also part of why I said M2 STG version > MiSTer. MiSTer also doesn't have training modes, new soundtracks, arranged modes, save states for practice, or any of that. There's basically no reason to play anything on MiSTer if there is an M2 ShotTriggers release of that game.
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Of course there is. You can't use a 15khz CRT and native resolution and vertical frq. with a PS4 or a Switch.
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Steven »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:Of course there is. You can't use a 15khz CRT and native resolution and vertical frq. with a PS4 or a Switch.
Just get a DAC.
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

A DAC won't magically transform a 16:9 picture into a 4:3 one. Nor display the original (PCB) game's resolution and frq. as it's not coded in.
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Steven »

That's why you use a downscaler like the RT5X, which will turn a 720p signal into a 240p signal and use the custom screen options to change the screen to whatever you need to fit your CRT. There's nothing you can do about the refresh rate, but a few extra Hz won't kill you. If you really care about accuracy and refresh rates, and since you don't seem to trust the MiSTer, just get a PCB and there you go.

Here's a PCB for sale, in case you want one: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/au ... 1048132121
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subcons
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by subcons »

BrianC wrote:I heard the flipgrip doesn't work with the oled switch?
Some say it works fine, but it was way too tight for comfort when I tried sliding my OLED into it. I just went ahead and sold it (for a decent profit, it being complete with all the packaging) and bought this one:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1124751598 ... essory-for

Highly recommend it! The only other problem with using something like this or the Flip Grip is the limited options you have when it comes to wireless Joy-Cons with a decent dpad. I researched the hell out of this and even bought a few of the most recommended products, but I returned all of them because none were anywhere near as good as the Hori Joy-Con, which isn’t wireless unfortunately.

I ended up modding a Joy-Con with a Saturn dpad and it’s probably the best solution for playing TATE on the Switch. I’m no modding expert and I was able to do it in an afternoon no problem. Here’s the guide I used if anyone is interested:

https://medium.com/@NanoGameReviews/seg ... 0d2425da90
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by XtraSmiley »

Steven wrote:
Bassa-Bassa wrote:Mister is rarely 100% accurate for any system, there's this misconception that it's different to "software emulators" in this regard just because it uses FPGA, but if the original hardware is not 100% documented, there's nothing they can do other than approximations like software emulators have been doing all these years. It's free of some unneeded crap you usually find with the latter, yeah, but you can even achieve no additional lag (both, input and audio) these days with stuff like Groovymame, or close enough.

Fortunately, some FPGA coders have been putting some effort to fix many bugs and inaccuracies Mame, for example, has been suffering from all these decades, but I'm afraid not all are this dedicated. The guy I linked to is one of those, and Mister's CPS2 emulation is his doing (Progear), but last I heard, Mister's Dodonpachi emulation was not perfect at all (not more than Mame's, at least, though that's considered to be very good these days), and that's the first Cave game to appear on Mister, so I have my reservations to believe that Esprade's "perfect" for now as this other guy's work is so slow. Progear, on the other hand, is a better candidate, and I've always find so odd that a comparison with the real thing was never made here in regards to slowdown accuracy.
Yeah, I know. That's also part of why I said M2 STG version > MiSTer. MiSTer also doesn't have training modes, new soundtracks, arranged modes, save states for practice, or any of that. There's basically no reason to play anything on MiSTer if there is an M2 ShotTriggers release of that game.
Of course there is, cost. If you have a MiSTer playing this game on it is free right now.

Personally I play on my OLED mainly, so the PS4 is my preferred version, but as I stated, I'm not good at the game so lag or no, I wouldn't know on the M2 version. I'll have to look for that menu setting that reduces lag, why would that ever be off?
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Sengoku Strider »

subcons wrote:Some say it works fine, but it was way too tight for comfort when I tried sliding my OLED into it.
That's odd, mine slides in perfectly. It's a snug fit, but then that's exactly what you'd want. I wonder if there was a change of moulds for the Flip Grip at some point?

Image
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subcons
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M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by subcons »

Sengoku Strider wrote:
subcons wrote:Some say it works fine, but it was way too tight for comfort when I tried sliding my OLED into it.
That's odd, mine slides in perfectly. It's a snug fit, but then that's exactly what you'd want. I wonder if there was a change of moulds for the Flip Grip at some point?

Image
Could be. I think I got mine from the last batch before they sold out a while back and never restocked. Assuming you got yours before then?

Edit: I will add that I kind of prefer the weight distribution and the way the controls sit a bit back from the screen with the Etsy one I have. I think I’d still recommend it over the Flip Grip. It’s a no brainer if you don’t already own one though because you can’t even buy a Flip Grip new right now. I think I’ve seen mention of a new version that addresses the OLED from the maker in the past, but nothing ever came of it.
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Steven »

XtraSmiley wrote:Of course there is, cost. If you have a MiSTer playing this game on it is free right now.
Yes, illegally downloading something for free does in fact make it free. You can do the same with the Switch release if you know how, apparently, as I guess that's now possible with Switch games. I don't know about PS4.

Please support M2. This shouldn't even be something to hesitate over. They are the single best developer for STG right now and their ShotTriggers line outperforms everything on the market and I'll buy everything they put out with that label, and I personally promised that I would do so to Horii when I met him last month. They deserve my money and they will get it. I'll play stuff on MiSTer if it doesn't have an M2 release, but the moment a game does get a ShotTriggers release, that's where I'll play those games from that point on.
Nugs
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by Nugs »

subcons wrote:
BrianC wrote:I heard the flipgrip doesn't work with the oled switch?
Some say it works fine, but it was way too tight for comfort when I tried sliding my OLED into it. I just went ahead and sold it (for a decent profit, it being complete with all the packaging) and bought this one:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1124751598 ... essory-for

Highly recommend it! The only other problem with using something like this or the Flip Grip is the limited options you have when it comes to wireless Joy-Cons with a decent dpad. I researched the hell out of this and even bought a few of the most recommended products, but I returned all of them because none were anywhere near as good as the Hori Joy-Con, which isn’t wireless unfortunately.

I ended up modding a Joy-Con with a Saturn dpad and it’s probably the best solution for playing TATE on the Switch. I’m no modding expert and I was able to do it in an afternoon no problem. Here’s the guide I used if anyone is interested:

https://medium.com/@NanoGameReviews/seg ... 0d2425da90
Thanks for the link, that etsy 'flip grip' looks really good so I've ordered one.
I've been using one I got printed off this thingiverse link but the printing quality is pretty janky.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3287040
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Re: M2 ESPRADE - Switch or PS4 Version?

Post by XtraSmiley »

Steven wrote:
XtraSmiley wrote:Of course there is, cost. If you have a MiSTer playing this game on it is free right now.
Yes, illegally downloading something for free does in fact make it free. You can do the same with the Switch release if you know how, apparently, as I guess that's now possible with Switch games. I don't know about PS4.

Please support M2. This shouldn't even be something to hesitate over. They are the single best developer for STG right now and their ShotTriggers line outperforms everything on the market and I'll buy everything they put out with that label, and I personally promised that I would do so to Horii when I met him last month. They deserve my money and they will get it. I'll play stuff on MiSTer if it doesn't have an M2 release, but the moment a game does get a ShotTriggers release, that's where I'll play those games from that point on.
You can steal games on both Switch and PS4, but I prefer to support the devs as well, hence my repeated comments about having the PS4 version.

That being said, downloading a 30+ year old ROM to play is a different matter, one this forum seems to accept (see every high score thread that lists MAME scores).

M2 does great stuff and personally it’s PS4 all day everyday for me, and I even own the PCB!
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