My Quest to Become an Approved Voter - Please Help

[Buffi]

I was hoping you'd post here. What do you think about the placement of Dimahoo? It's not a common game to see played for survival (and therefore not so often seen cleared at all!).
The SDOJ rank's so high because it's for a Hibachi clear; the JP wiki has a regular 1CC at 21.

Oh, if that's for Hibachi then that sounds correct.

Dimahoo is not very hard if using Birthday and just doing strict survival and bombing all bosses, which is a pretty silly way to play the game.
Espgaluda 2 is also not too hard if using survival strats with Asagi.
Both of them require some routing though, but definitely make the games a whole lot easier.

I would probably have them a few points lower, but I dunno.
It's real hard to compare difficulties.

[ADM]

Still making progress on TF AC - made it to level 7 today without continuing. Really need to work on that level 7 boss and a little on level 8 as well (although his patterns are much simpler). My roughest stages are 5 (those damn moving platforms) and 7 (homing weapon is pretty much mandatory for me).

I also completed the game for the first time, although I only had 2 continues left (out of the 6 they give you, ouch). The rough translation during the ending had me laughing pretty good (I love Jean and Sherry, so cute).

I hope to complete it this weekend, then it's back to Lords of Thunder when I get home.

I'll also update all of the difficulty rankings when I get back, it's a pain to do on my phone. Thanks for all of the great discussion and input!

[Sengoku Strider]

Still making progress on TF AC - made it to level 7 today without continuing. Really need to work on that level 7 boss and a little on level 8 as well (although his patterns are much simpler).

Level 7 box guy is the only tough boss in the whole game, at least until you learn the ways not to let yourself get trapped. The last boss' challenge mainly comes from his tankiness.

The number of lives you have remaining at the end is a huge component of scoring in this game, like almost half if you max them out. It's worth getting collecting score items down to where you can build a hoard of lives.

Also, I must say, stage 7 has some of the most rockin' FM synth a Z-80 ever rocked.

Hunger Made Them Desperate

...and now that I think about it, stage 6 is thoroughly epic too:

His Behavior Inspired Us With Distrust

[ADM]

Are you talking about "normal course" or "advanced course"?

Advanced, because that seems to be what ADM was going for. Normal course would certainly be low.

For the most part, I want to use the difficulty that is selected by default to determine their ranking - launch the game and press "start," then get a 1 loop clear. I am willing to choose the best character though, if one of them makes it easier than the others.

Also, as much as I would love to 1cc 50% of this list, I have to be realistic - it would take me years. And I don't think anybody should have to study shmups for years just to feel like a full member of this community - it's a little extreme.

So, I plan to play each game until I feel like I am not making tangible progress. And if a 1cc doesn't seem possible for me, then I will do my best to learn the scoring system instead.

[To Far Away Times]

I think the ask was just being familiar with 50% of the games. 1CC'ing these games is hard AF. I doubt very many people will 1CC half of them, and if they do, it'll be the easier half. Some games even seem to be there because of their high difficulty.

I basically wanted to 1-ALL just one of the mega hard ones to prove to myself that I could, and settled on DOJ. I ain't putting myself through that again for Garegga or Ketsui or whatever, as good as they are.

[ADM]

I think the ask was just being familiar with 50% of the games. 1CC'ing these games is hard AF. I doubt very many people will 1CC half of them, and if they do, it'll be the easier half. Some games even seem to be there because of their high difficulty.

You're definitely correct, but it also says I should be able to understand why they are so well-regarded. I've quarter-fed through most of the arcade games on the list, but that really didn't give me an appreciation for them. I still think that the easier console games are the best in the genre.

I want to change the way my mind works so that I can also appreciate that difficulty, but I need to undo decades of instant gratification from easier games.

[Sengoku Strider]

I think the ask was just being familiar with 50% of the games. 1CC'ing these games is hard AF. I doubt very many people will 1CC half of them, and if they do, it'll be the easier half. Some games even seem to be there because of their high difficulty.

I basically wanted to 1-ALL just one of the mega hard ones to prove to myself that I could, and settled on DOJ. I ain't putting myself through that again for Garegga or Ketsui or whatever, as good as they are.

I platinumed Battle Garegga today. The 1cc is not a requirement for it. Quite telling, lol.

Ketsui does require you to no-miss super easy mode though

[Lethe]

For the most part, I want to use the difficulty that is selected by default to determine their ranking - launch the game and press "start," then get a 1 loop clear. I am willing to choose the best character though, if one of them makes it easier than the others.

For Batrider (and Bakraid), you absolutely will get a good idea of what's appealing about the game on Normal course. Crimzon Clover, the Mushihimesama games and Eschatos have very different game modes which some consider more valid than the default one. In ZeroRanger you really need to see the whole thing through to the end and whether it's a 1CC or not is secondary. In PoDD you need to play on Lunatic even if clearing is hopeless. Ginga Force doesn't have an arcade format at all!

Appreciation of the mechanics, the game flow/progression, presentation etc are just as, if not more, important than survival progress. The purpose of playing under default settings is to give you a stable context for appreciating these things (and to make you put more money in the machine). If that context is unworkable for you, play on non-defaults. Play for a 2CC, raise the starting lives or something. That way you'll still have a context that isn't as meaningless as credit feeding, but you'll be better equipped to experience more of the game.

[LordHypnos]

Would also recommmend learning about scoring for more modern games. A lot of the time their appeal comes from the complexity/elegance/depth/addictiveness of their scoring systems.

[To Far Away Times]

I think the ask was just being familiar with 50% of the games. 1CC'ing these games is hard AF. I doubt very many people will 1CC half of them, and if they do, it'll be the easier half. Some games even seem to be there because of their high difficulty.

You're definitely correct, but it also says I should be able to understand why they are so well-regarded. I've quarter-fed through most of the arcade games on the list, but that really didn't give me an appreciation for them. I still think that the easier console games are the best in the genre.

I want to change the way my mind works so that I can also appreciate that difficulty, but I need to undo decades of instant gratification from easier games.

I love a lot of console shmups. I like games both on the easier and harder side. I don't like games you can sleepwalk through, but "easier" console games like Thunderforce III can be super memorable and fun. I returned to that one a bunch after clearing it, and even though it doesnt have a notable scoring system, I justed wanted to soak it all in and enjoy it. The sign of a great game right there. Same with a few others like Elemental Master or Spriggan, I just kept going back to them over and over to enjoy the gameplay and production values even if there was nothing left to do. Solider Blade is another one that's rock solid and a rolling good time even if its kinda easy.

One game that surprised me recently was Kingdom Grandprix. Although its an arcade game, the 1CC is basically a freebie with Miyamoto and the homing shot, but add in choosing your stages and the racing mechanic there's alot to enjoy and return to even after a simple 1-ALL.

[ADM]

I DID IT!!! Thunderforce AC 1CC! Final score is 1,380,620. I'm in the car so I've got the game on pause until I get wifi - hopefully it will let me upload to the leaderboards.

I botched stage 5 and lost a couple lives, recovered everything on stage 6, then had a very clean stage 7. I choked on the final mini boss rush though - had to do the last fight without options, but still finished with 3 lives in the bank.

[To Far Away Times]

Nice! Awesome game!

[LordHypnos]

Congrats!

[Sengoku Strider]

I DID IT!!! Thunderforce AC 1CC! Final score is 1,380,620. I'm in the car so I've got the game on pause until I get wifi - hopefully it will let me upload to the leaderboards.

I botched stage 5 and lost a couple lives, recovered everything on stage 6, then had a very clean stage 7. I choked on the final mini boss rush though - had to do the last fight without options, but still finished with 3 lives in the bank.

You should submit it to the high score thread, it qualifies:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27396&hilit=thunder+force+ac

I didn't realize someone just broke the world record a couple of months ago. All this talk about it makes me want to go back & top my score. I know I can do it, but there's sizeable gap between my score & cracking the top 10.

[ADM]

Thanks all!!

You should submit it to the high score thread, it qualifies:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27396&hilit=thunder+force+ac

Done, thank you!

I returned to that one a bunch after clearing it, and even though it doesnt have a notable scoring system, I justed wanted to soak it all in and enjoy it. The sign of a great game right there.

I know exactly what you mean, although the only short, action-oriented game I've ever felt that way about was Contra III on the SNES - I've played it dozens of times, and I'd like to find a shmup that also gives me that same satisfaction. I think it was the variety of gameplay and cinematic nature of the levels/boss fights that kept me coming back.

One game that surprised me recently was Kingdom Grandprix. Although its an arcade game, the 1CC is basically a freebie with Miyamoto and the homing shot, but add in choosing your stages and the racing mechanic there's alot to enjoy and return to even after a simple 1-ALL.

I've seen this one mentioned a few times but haven't looked into it yet - I was worried it was a caravan shooter (which I'm not a fan of), but I guess I was wrong if you can 1CC it.


I'm going to update the rankings now, based on the new input. Again, criticism is always welcome.

[ADM]

Bought a lot of games on Steam last night - Mecha Ritz, Eschatos, Judgement Silversword, Ginga Force, Natsuki Chronicles, Hellsinker, Kamui, ZeroRanger, Blue Revolver, and Graze Counter (not on the list, but it looks fun).

A few of the Touhou games are on sale, but not for great prices, and I'm having a little trouble navigating the labyrinth of names. Didn't get any of them but I'm up for suggestions.

[To Far Away Times]

One game that surprised me recently was Kingdom Grandprix. Although its an arcade game, the 1CC is basically a freebie with Miyamoto and the homing shot, but add in choosing your stages and the racing mechanic there's alot to enjoy and return to even after a simple 1-ALL.

I've seen this one mentioned a few times but haven't looked into it yet - I was worried it was a caravan shooter (which I'm not a fan of), but I guess I was wrong if you can 1CC it.

Its sort of a hybrid racing game and shmup, but it's a full length survival challenge as well. The hybrid nature of it makes the survival component a bit easier as the game also has to be designed around you playing higher up on the screen and trying to get the game to scroll faster. If you don't focus on getting first, the survival aspect is pretty trivial. I think its fun to get the 1CC out of the way and then work towards getting first, which would sorta replace the scoring aspect of most other shmups. Its a weird, but very cool, design.

[ADM]

Its sort of a hybrid racing game and shmup, but it's a full length survival challenge as well. The hybrid nature of it makes the survival component a bit easier as the game also has to be designed around you playing higher up on the screen and trying to get the game to scroll faster. If you don't focus on getting first, the survival aspect is pretty trivial. I think its fun to get the 1CC out of the way and then work towards getting first, which would sorta replace the scoring aspect of most other shmups. Its a weird, but very cool, design.

Sounds more interesting than I thought, I'll check it out!


I got a 1CC on Mecha Ritz my first time playing - I guess this is pretty typical given all the shields they throw at you, and the best players probably play the game on a completely different level, but I'm content with my shoddy clear. Whoever programmed this was very creative with enemy and bullet patterns - it started out with a level reminiscent of DDP stage 1, but evolved into something very different and exciting (despite the low difficulty). This could be a great bullet hell trainer in the future.

My final score was 3,220,740. Clear time 29:31 - Max rank 74

[LordHypnos]

I got a 1CC on Mecha Ritz my first time playing

But did you get the True Final Boss? (it's still not very difficult). It is a pretty fun game for how easy it is (I think a lot of it is the creative boss designs and boss frequency), but I haven't revisited it since I cleared it. Great background music, as well, and very interesting graphics.

[Lethe]

Bought a lot of games on Steam last night - Mecha Ritz, Eschatos, Judgement Silversword, Ginga Force, Natsuki Chronicles, Hellsinker, Kamui, ZeroRanger, Blue Revolver, and Graze Counter (not on the list, but it looks fun).

A few of the Touhou games are on sale, but not for great prices, and I'm having a little trouble navigating the labyrinth of names. Didn't get any of them but I'm up for suggestions.

Great selections, I hope you get around to giving all of them a fair shake.
The Touhou games on sale would be fangames... I don't think official Touhou games go on sale, ever. Not that the distinction should matter to you (it's just another annelid in the ungodly writhing worm can that is that series). Anyway, you already know what my suggestion is on that front.

I got a 1CC on Mecha Ritz my first time playing - I guess this is pretty typical given all the shields they throw at you, and the best players probably play the game on a completely different level, but I'm content with my shoddy clear. Whoever programmed this was very creative with enemy and bullet patterns - it started out with a level reminiscent of DDP stage 1, but evolved into something very different. This would probably be a great bullet hell trainer.

I find it to be an exceedingly charming game; the personality of it all is special. Unfortunately the Steam version has a bug where all the boss intro text is stuck in Chinese. You used to be able to get the unpatched version on Playism but their store has closed now.

[ADM]

I got a 1CC on Mecha Ritz my first time playing

But did you get the True Final Boss? (it's still not very difficult). It is a pretty fun game for how easy it is (I think a lot of it is the creative boss designs and boss frequency), but I haven't revisited it since I cleared it. Great background music, as well, and very interesting graphics.

My final boss was a teddy bear...no idea if this was the TLB.

The Touhou games on sale would be fangames... I don't think official Touhou games go on sale, ever. Not that the distinction should matter to you (it's just another annelid in the ungodly writhing worm can that is that series). Anyway, you already know what my suggestion is on that front.

Ahh, so some of the names are in Japanese on Steam - probably why I can't find any of them.

[LordHypnos]

TFB

I'm fairly certain this one is the TLB (though it was a long time ago that I played this). IIRC the requirement is to No Miss up to that point.

[Lethe]

IIRC the requirement is to No Miss up to that point.

Just have to get to stage 5 without running out of time. Starting at a higher rank can be helpful: you'll get more shot power, the stages will scroll faster, and you'll get more bonus time at the end of each stage. I don't know if no-missing 4B is even possible with some of the ships.

[ADM]

I just finished Space Megaforce using quite a few continues on Stage 8, but none on the others. Shouldn't be too hard to get a 1CC as long as I don't accidentally pick up a terrible weapon during one of the final boss fights. I didn't realize until late game that you could create free lives by destroying the rotating weapon pickups - that's going to be a game changer that makes the whole thing much easier.

Unfortunately, this game is waaay too long, and I don't love it. The player ship design is pretty dorky (looks like a space toy from the 1950s), and the level layouts make absolutely no sense - what are all these goofy walls everywhere? I played through all 3 GG Aleste games in the recent collection and enjoyed those much more.

[ADM]

I just finished Space Megaforce using quite a few continues on Stage 8, but none on the others. Shouldn't be too hard to get a 1CC as long as I don't accidentally pick up a terrible weapon during one of the final boss fights. I didn't realize until late game that you could create free lives by destroying the rotating weapon pickups - that's going to be a game changer that makes the whole thing much easier.

Hmm, I may have been incorrect about that...might have just been hitting free life point thresholds. Made it to level 8 again - have to find a way to deal with the exploding wall debris, that's the number one thing costing me lives.

[Sengoku Strider]

Unfortunately, this game is waaay too long, and I don't love it. The player ship design is pretty dorky (looks like a space toy from the 1950s), and the level layouts make absolutely no sense - what are all these goofy walls everywhere? I played through all 3 GG Aleste games in the recent collection and enjoyed those much more.

This hurts me inside. Preferences I suppose, but Super Aleste/Space Megaforce has always been my platonic ideal of the STG. Obstacle-based level geometry, non-trivial power up system, flashy weapons, cool FX & interesting backgrounds, great music and bosses with unique mechanics.

The length is emblematic of the difference between console & arcade STGs. Back in the day games were way more expensive - a $55 cartridge in 1991 was the equivalent of $112 today. And console piracy was near non-existent in the West, as were games under $20, so game collections were much smaller. If you bought a game instead of just renting you needed that cart to last you a while.

[Rastan78]

Back in the day games were way more expensive - a $55 cartridge in 1991 was the equivalent of $112 today.

No doubt, plus a lot of cartridges were even more expensive. IIRC the NA release of Final Fantasy III was $80. That was a chunk of coin back then.

[ADM]

This hurts me inside.

Oh no! I didn't mean to offend, sorry!

Obstacle-based level geometry, non-trivial power up system, flashy weapons, cool FX & interesting backgrounds, great music and bosses with unique mechanics.

I don't mind obstacle based levels, but I wish they looked like actual walls. So many of them are just weird, abstract shapes. I frequently can't tell what is in the foreground and what is in the background, and the game is inconsistent about which enemies and bullets can pass through things.

I like a few of the weapons, but wish I could decide which one to use instead of playing "dodge the pickup" - this is especially a pain when flying through corridors. I guess all of Compile's games do this but I've never liked it.

The length is emblematic of the difference between console & arcade STGs. Back in the day games were way more expensive - a $55 cartridge in 1991 was the equivalent of $112 today.

Yeah, my family could only afford one or two games a year, but I rented them like crazy. I don't think I ever asked for a shmup, knowing how short they usually were.

[Sengoku Strider]

Oh no! I didn't mean to offend, sorry!

LOL, I'll survive. The point of this exercise is forming your own opinions, right?

[LordHypnos]

I like a few of the weapons, but wish I could decide which one to use instead of playing "dodge the pickup" - this is especially a pain when flying through corridors. I guess all of Compile's games do this but I've never liked it.

Power-up dodging is an important skill for playing old-school shmups. Funnily enough, one of the mini-games in Triangle Service's STG Skills Test is a power-up dodging exercise.