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 Post subject: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:54 pm 


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Certain games seem to teach us more than others, or perhaps we learn the most in relation to them - patience can, after all, be taught by all things, given the correct attitude. For me, parsec47 has not only made me a better, more aggressive, player, it also seems to have made is to that my preference for playing has changed with it! I used to enjoy different types of ships in shmups, but these days, after basically a ten year absence from shmupping, having only played the occasional parsec47 and noiz2sa, I seem to have a clear preference for the fast kind of ships that have pointed rather than spread shots, with perhaps the exception being C-S in Dodonpachi because damn it just kills stuff AND chains quite easily AND makes it so I can use shot and still retain some speed. Until I found the "Treason" ship in Jamestown+ I was thinking of giving up the game due to all the ships feeling so, damn... slow, but I played at least until I had unlocked all the ships and finally I found it, the holy grail - the ship bouncing around like crazy, opting for macro dodging and aggressive both destruction of enemy forces, and diverting their attention toward the sides of the screens.

I'm being serious when I say that playing so much parsec47 has moved my "neutral" game up AT LEAST 2 inches/5 centimeters (in the vertical shmup, that is), and often much more than that, and quite often, too much, probably. I guess some of it is just natural progression, but weirdly enough it didn't occur by itself after several years of being heavily into shmupping, rather, what it took was perhaps a combination of three things, 1) parsec47s crazy aggressive style, 2) my having moved my shmupping primarily to PC screen rather than a TATE'd 28 inch CRT lying on the floor, something that has brought me closer to the action and has improved readibility and COMFORT, something I've put more focus on as I've gotten older, and 3) the long break might have something to do with it, and what occured in my life in general during that time (got Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, CFS).

I mean I can definitely see a shift from choosing wizards and such in video games, to going for quick and dirty rogue glass canon builds with immense amount of luck, critical, sniping, takedowns, but dangerously low hp, and I can definitely see how my change in tastes in ships in shmups align with this general emphasis on speed and directness. Going further yet, this shift toward more action oriented characters is a consequence of my general issues that come with my CFS symptoms and have after MANY years finally made me come to terms somewhat with my limitations and to focus on going easy on myself rather than holding on to ideas of my old self, thus making customization in gaming and life in general more of a priority, whether it be to bypass all those spellbooks because brain hurt, or to keep playing on normal difficulty, ignoring crafting completely (because brain hurty and collecting boring), BUT giving my character a couple extra ability points with the use of an external trainer (oh my god, cheating, now I won't be able to say I've cleared the game on normal!), or, in the case of shmupping; switching to easy in Touhou games, turning off music in Danmaku Unlimited 3 and listening to lofi hiphop instead, etc. Disease can definitely be a good teacher.

Can you think of any games, shmup or otherwise, that have changed your relationship to other games? Perhaps a book, like was the case for PPMD in Super Smash Brothers Melee after having read Bruce Lee's book and applied it's teaching to a fighting game? Or perhaps there was just the question of a mindset or subtle shift in perception? An example from The Electric Underground comes to mind, namely to look at the gaps rather than the enemy projectiles - which reminds me, let's see what this yanny/laurel method can do for me.


Last edited by Eyvah_Ehyeh on Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:56 pm 



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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:58 pm 



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Eyvah_Ehyeh wrote:
improved readibility and COMFORT


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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:21 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:15 pm 


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This was definitely Ketsui for me. I started to pay attention to the meticulous detailing of enemy placement and the deeper nuance in specific mechanics after playing that game and actually learning what the numbers mean. It was like a third eye opened. Remember when Prince Zuko met those dragons? It was that for me. Just a moment of "I understand...".


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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 10:17 am 


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Your first 1CC of any good shooter will be your most valuable lesson.

I always liked shooters but didn't really play any modern stuff. Futari opened my eyes. Haven't 1CCed it but it made me realise what was needed and I have 1CCed Gigawing, Darius Gaiden and Raiden III (easy) in my 50s. Working on Layer Section but once I get that I'm going to look at Futari or DFK. Gigawing was my first and it ingrained into me the value of regular focussed practice.

I need to change my 360 setup so I am playing up close - something I realised that is required.


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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 8:17 am 


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davyK wrote:
Your first 1CC of any good shooter will be your most valuable lesson.

Gigawing was my first and it ingrained into me the value of regular focussed practice.

I need to change my 360 setup so I am playing up close - something I realised that is required.


First 1CC will be valuable - IF you use focused practice to get there! ;P This is something I've struggled with, finding focused practice a bit on the boring side, but also knowing that just playing for the high of reacting to stuff becomes frustrating sooner or later as well. It's just like life in general. But yeah setup is actually very important, at least for me as it makes dodging much more easy when I have the optimal distance from my eyes to do it. :)


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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:32 pm 


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Eyvah_Ehyeh wrote:
davyK wrote:
Your first 1CC of any good shooter will be your most valuable lesson.

Gigawing was my first and it ingrained into me the value of regular focussed practice.

I need to change my 360 setup so I am playing up close - something I realised that is required.


First 1CC will be valuable - IF you use focused practice to get there! ;P This is something I've struggled with, finding focused practice a bit on the boring side, but also knowing that just playing for the high of reacting to stuff becomes frustrating sooner or later as well. It's just like life in general. But yeah setup is actually very important, at least for me as it makes dodging much more easy when I have the optimal distance from my eyes to do it. :)



It depends on how talented one is too. :)

Because I love the genre I find it too easy to get distracted and jump from game to game. Doing that means I never really get anywhere with them because I'm not good enough to progress unless I stick with something. I've never liked continuing - I always felt a bit hollow doing it. It has a certain value is getting a glimpse of the next level or two but on the whole I find it easy to avoid continuing without too much effort.

Focussed, regular practice, a correct display setup and an agreeable control method are for me the 3 prime factors in achieving a 1CC. Talent will mean you do get 1CCs quicker without as much focussed practice , especially as you become more experienced, but talented players end up score chasing - and that means the same 3 factors becoming important again.


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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:12 pm 


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R-Type Final 2 taught me that people truly despise this genre and want to see it destroyed. Not the developers of R-Type Final 2, of course. I thought the reaction to Raiden V was bad, but this seems so much worse.
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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:18 pm 


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Despatche wrote:
R-Type Final 2 taught me that people who claim to love this genre truly despise this genre and want to see it destroyed.


Fixed.
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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:24 pm 


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No lies detected.

Speaking of which, Raiden V taught me that you actually can make a great Raiden game.
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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 1:46 pm 


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Cho Ren Sha 68k made me realize and understand almost everything I love about the genre.
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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 2:36 pm 



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You have to die, if you want to live.
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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 4:41 pm 


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neorichieb1971 wrote:
You have to die, if you want to live.


Ah, yes, dying as a way of truly living. Was on, was off. After life, death. After death, life again. After the world, the pale. After the pale, the world again.


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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 4:58 pm 


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(Hi A7A, long time no see!)

I did not grow up with arcades really, but the Saturn port of Twinbee Yahhoo was probably the one that taught me to play on one credit. Iirc you had 5 credits in that game, and first I needed all those five but then I gradually limited myself to play on 4,3,2 and 1 credit.

I think a console stg would benefit from also having 3 or 5 credits as default, but adding something like an animation that highlighted your score resetting for each credit you consume. This I think would invite new players to get quite far in the game before they get game over, but motivate them to play more to see all the "content", and also encourage them to play for score as the scoring counter is highlighted after every credit. New players would need to go to the settings menu to actively change the game to infinite credits if they wanted to see all the content. I think that would be a fair compromise, and it would reduce the risk of confused gamers like in that infamous Mushihimesama review.


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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:53 pm 


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Long time indeed. :) You still in academia?

What about a system where every time you use a credit, your points are halved? Haha then you have to choose when to "tap out", so to speak. Oof that might hurt, if you get too greedy. But yeah how exactly to make people who complain that a shmup is just half an hour or an hour long understand shmups is a difficult one, so might as well go for the low-hanging fruit, meaning the people who already have it in them that they want to strive for either a highscore, or wish to survive the game until the end, which in the best case scenario would lead to a game system where the two (scoring and survivability) reinforce one-another, and on top off that adding some achievements and challenge/practice stages where one is supposed to do very specific things like pick upp all the items during a 20 second challenge stage, do a 100 hit chain, not get hit during a difficult pattern, etc. Basically training mode, but like for real, rather than "here's stage 1-5 - have fun practicing those!" so that one's mind can be opened up to the possibilities of the game - and the fun of limiting credit feeding.


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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 12:18 am 



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I learned very quickly what the difference arcade button types make in playing a game. Playing R-Type at Funspot is a much more painful experience with the American-style buttons than at home with my HRAP.


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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 2:23 pm 


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ESP Ra De & DoDonPachi: Feedback. The car-crash SFX and caustic explosions left in the wake of a good POW wave; the knife-through-butter slice of Laser through carpets of tanks; returning to arcade games after Gradius V, these were the first STGs to really communicate the simple pleasure of mass annihilation. I like to feel like I'm doing damage.

Dangun Feveron & Raiden Fighters Jet: Controlled freneticism. In a genre associated with autoscrolling, the speedkiller ethos challenges the player to move and kill at the limits of their coordination, both to score and simply to survive. I like to always have something to do, whether it's getting in position for the next wave or readying a charge shot.

Zanac Neo & Psyvariar Revision: Burst i-frames / BODY RAM (cf Zach Keene). In all sorts of action games, not just STG, I like it when the player can subvert "no-miss" strictures, turning the tables via autoguard, item flash, what have you. Snatching a P-chip from a nest of turrets, or cresting a wall of flak, then ramming the ship clean through a priority target and making a clean getaway wasn't something I'd associated with STG precision until these games.

Gunbird 2 & Dragon Blaze: Conciseness. Latter-day Psikyo is the definition of "all killer, no filler." Rigorously hard yet effortlessly replayable games. If you're gonna have second loops, this is how to.

Gun.Smoke & Metal Black: Finesse touch. Both of these games demand subtle, grazing use of their shots. Neither attacking point-blank, nor fleeing from danger is advisable; rather, success is in the grey area, landing glancing hits and sidestepping reprisal via the respective strafe/aura mechanics. Even digital action games can convey analogue subtlety.

Elemental Master: Leisure. EM is not a harrowing clear, but it's an unfailingly intense one. The balance of monster firepower to voracious hordes and tight quarters is sublime. I value STGs that marshal this rollicking, good-time ethos easily as much as the classical frighteners.

Kamui: Arcade-calibre scoring for consumer platform. Kamui's both a classily generous survival game, and an elegant, robust scoring challenge. Ala Elemental Master, it taught me early on that STGs' value - immediacy, focus, longterm mastery - aren't at all predicated on sheer difficulty; rather, difficulty was merely one variable among many.
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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 4:23 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Dangun Feveron & Raiden Fighters Jet: Controlled freneticism. In a genre associated with autoscrolling, the speedkiller ethos challenges the player to move and kill at the limits of their coordination, both to score and simply to survive. I like to always have something to do, whether it's getting in position for the next wave or readying a charge shot.


Yo I gotta recommend you give my favorite shmup a shot, PARSEC47, which probably was inspired by Dangun. I always feel there's something to do there, especially on higher difficulties, like I'm at the peak of my ability to move quickly, coordinating picking up the point clouds or getting in position for charge-shooting the next big enemy quickly in order to get more point clouds. It's the only one of kenta chos abstract shooters which I'm on the fence when it comes to having the music off, since I feel the rhythm of the music provides a kind of feedback as to when phases shift and when a new wave of enemies will arrive, but on the other hand it's quite possible to get a feel for it without the music as well, and I do love my chill post rock playlists. ^^ Ramming the ship with a loaded "roll" into a big enemy, or just really going for those point clouds while making a miraculous getaway is also something you might enjoy.

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~cs8k-cyu/windows/p47_e.html


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 Post subject: Re: What games taught you the most?
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:32 pm 


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Thanks bud! Heard many good things about parsec over the years, just never got around to it. I know I'll be gaming until I fall off my chair, so I tend to take my time. :mrgreen: That does sound very Dangunesque, indeed.
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