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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:12 am 


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qmish wrote:
And music is MIDI :mrgreen:


A minor thing, but MIDI is just an industry standard for connecting electronic instruments & gear together. It's a cable and a protocol for sending pitch values etc., not a kind of sound.

Some time in the 90s, some game journalist got confused (let's just say GameFan) and the term became mixed up with poorly sampled instrument sounds among gamers.


Last edited by Sengoku Strider on Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:13 am 


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More like Garbage-Mode amirite?


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:17 am 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:

A minor thing, but MIDI is just an industry standard for connecting electronic instruments & gear together. It's a cable and a protocol for sending pitch values etc., not a kind of sound.

Some time in the 90s, some game journalist got confused (let's just say GameFan) and the term became mixed up with poorly sampled instrument sounds among gamers.


As musician/synth-nut myself, i know it, right?

However. I really mean THAT.

Quote:
mixed up with poorly sampled instrument sounds among gamers


So yes, when you say "it's midi music" you mean its J2ME Siemens/Nokia polyphonic ringtone, or horrible default windows soundfount you hear when play mid files.

In case with DOJ DX, it's former.
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:45 pm 



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
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Gyaragax on reddit found a video of mobile gameplay. Such a technologically limited port. Why even bother?

https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm28143951


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:09 pm 



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When I first saw this announcement I got super excited. Another version of DDP DOJ for a home console sounded awesome, and then I saw the videos of it. I could see this being like a pre-order bonus or something like that for a release of the OG DDP DOJ, but this as a stand alone just seems silly.


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:50 pm 


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I think the game seems hilarious and I really wanna play it


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:53 pm 



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Oh look fuckin thunder cross 2 hitting the switch, sweet

Prob gonna be a really good fuckin port too based on the publisher

Wow, if only dodonpachi was as popular and respected as fucking thunder cross 2, maybe it would justify a good port like this

Can someone at cave please call hamster and ask them to explain how to run a fucking business please

Edit - NGL, the thunder cross 2 release is more exciting to me than anything announced at shooters fest 2021. It's an actual fucking game that i can buy without jumping through 15 fucking hoops


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:22 pm 


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This kind of reminds me of Mission Craft arcade, where it looks like someone took clipart from DaiOuJou and made a game from that.

But hey, look at how relaxed that chain meter is. I might be able to chain a level in this version, so it's automatically 9001 times better than the original. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:50 pm 


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I read the first few posts and assumed "mobile version" meant "the iOS ports". The 15fps and MIDI sounds crack me up.

This somehow reminds me of that time when Ketsui got ported... to the DS, bosses only.
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:59 pm 


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Quote:
Ketsui got ported... to the DS, bosses only.


Except that boss rush game was pretty good for what it was :idea:
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:52 pm 


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Yeah, I actually really loved that game when it came out. That a vertical bullet hell port on a horizontal portable system worked at all was quite amazing, especially on a system that had barely any shmups at all. I remember that Arika even added some new scoring mechanics.

The actual outrage was more based on the fact that Arika initially planned a full PS2 port that was canceled due to technical problems (iirc the PS2 couldn't handle stage 5?). As a game on it's own it's quite brilliant, and the short boss rush courses were perfect for a mobile game.
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:57 pm 


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endali wrote:
:salt:


Wah, company that ports flip phone games is porting a flip phone game from a company I like, so I'm gonna throw a tantrum. Because obviously there's no way the porting company was the one that initiated this.
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:23 pm 


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This DOJ sfx might indeed be the worst shmup sound effects I've heard outside of the pce aka P-Shriek Engine
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:14 pm 



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Sengoku Strider wrote:
qmish wrote:
And music is MIDI :mrgreen:


A minor thing, but MIDI is just an industry standard for connecting electronic instruments & gear together. It's a cable and a protocol for sending pitch values etc., not a kind of sound.

Some time in the 90s, some game journalist got confused (let's just say GameFan) and the term became mixed up with poorly sampled instrument sounds among gamers.



Actually some time in the 90s General MIDI was invented, using roms of poorly sampled instruments addressable by standardized MIDI CC program numbers. Many PC games utilized this and you could buy little half rack modules from Roland/Korg/Yamaha etc. that would play back MIDI files with the proper patch instrumentation being automatically selected via program change.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI.



endali wrote:
Oh look fuckin thunder cross 2 hitting the switch, sweet

Prob gonna be a really good fuckin port too based on the publisher

Wow, if only dodonpachi was as popular and respected as fucking thunder cross 2, maybe it would justify a good port like this

Can someone at cave please call hamster and ask them to explain how to run a fucking business please

Edit - NGL, the thunder cross 2 release is more exciting to me than anything announced at shooters fest 2021. It's an actual fucking game that i can buy without jumping through 15 fucking hoops



Lol take a deep breath man. I don't think CAVE is trolling anyone, I think they're just trying to survive. The entire game industry in Japan has been mobile based for years now. It's unfortunate they don't treat their legacy with the respect the hardcore fans want them to, but it's probably not that lucrative. I mean making those types of games in the first place wasn't lucrative enough for them to survive on it, so I'd guess that porting 20 year old arcade games is just barely a break-even endeavor. I mean M2 have to charge AAA game prices to do it at the level they're doing it and the owner still has to sink his own money into some of the projects.


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:31 pm 



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trap15 wrote:
endali wrote:
:salt:


Wah, company that ports flip phone games is porting a flip phone game from a company I like, so I'm gonna throw a tantrum. Because obviously there's no way the porting company was the one that initiated this.


I told him that without the sarcasm yesterday, there's no use. Though I'll add - these releases sell at 500 yens and belong to a series: https://gmodecorp.com/gmodearchives/

Maybe announcing it at the Shooters Fest was not the best idea, but again, what does this have to do with Cave.


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:59 pm 


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It's almost remarkable that in half a decade of being in this forum, I still haven't found intelligent discussion outside of the strategy section.

Plasmo wrote:
Kinda surprised there's no thread for Shooters Fes 2021 even though we got numerous new announcements, games etc. This weekend was huge!


The discussion has moved on to Discord but unlike fighting games I haven't found a good server for shmups. Please DM me one if you know of a place that it's not CAVE doom and gloom like we're back in 2014.

trap15 wrote:
Wah, company that ports flip phone games is porting a flip phone game from a company I like, so I'm gonna throw a tantrum. Because obviously there's no way the porting company was the one that initiated this.


Yup, this is a good summary. For preservation purposes this is awesome. CAVE is just licensing their shit and I hope City Connection can deliver just like M2 have with the STG line.
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:06 pm 


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Quote:
The more i think about this, the worse it seems

New players are gonna see DOJ in the top 3 of every top 25 list on this site

Then they're gonna google it, and they are going to play this shitty fucking port because it will be the ONLY FUCKING COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE VERSION OF THE GAME ON ANY MODERN PLATFORM, and they're never gonna play shmups again

This site is going to need to put an asterisk on doj on every top 25 list going back to the start


Try taking some deep breaths. It's all going to be ok.

Quote:
I think a lot of you guys really overestimate the number of people that have 360's and ps2's. No one under the age of 25 has ever or will ever or even wants to see one of these things. I also think you overestimate the number of people that are willing to deal with mame.

"This game is available on 360, ps2, and mame"

Ok then it might as well not even exist, and there's no good reason for it, and that's kinda frustrating

And seeing this mobile port release is just like, wow i really wish a decent publisher would buy the IP's from these fucking people


And in through the nose . . . And exhale through the mouth. In through the nose . .

So no one under 25 has played a 360 before? What's the solution? Every Cave game magically gets a new port every generation. I feel like the situation for Cave fans is pretty good overall. There's always going to be a certain barrier to entry in this genre whether tracking down imports, older consoles etc. Honestly most people who just Google shmups and land on DOJ as a first game are gonna bounce right off it anyway. Even if there was an M2 port this gen it would likely be 50 dollars and import only. Not exactly something that is just gonna fall into people's lap.


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:05 pm 



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Rastan78 wrote:
So no one under 25 has played a 360 before? What's the solution? Every Cave game magically gets a new port every generation.



No, the solution is to magically put them on fucking steam in addition to the console ports

Yeah that requires magic. Jesus christ. Like i'm asking for something unreasonable.

I feel like this entire community is in some bizarro world where everyone is completely oblivious to how buying and selling video games works

Edit also getting kinda sick of hearing about m2. Lots of other good ports coming out from companies. The steam cave ports are awesome and they're not m2

Hey M2 no one has a fucking game gear, we have steam now, can you please catch up with the world and put your fucking games on steam please?


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:30 pm 


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M2 said they couldn't get games working perfectly on win10

And if they can't do it, they don't release. They're perfectionists/maniacs

Ofc it's easier release on console cause same hardware/software for all devices
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:38 pm 



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He's not asking M2, he's asking Cave to do it. A company which left the business like 5 years ago right after trying the Steam venture and finding out it was not profitable for them and that the ports were far from awesome for most fans.

Just saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:55 pm 


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endali wrote:
Edit also getting kinda sick of hearing about m2.


Also kinda getting sick of seeing this thread.

endali wrote:
I feel like this entire community is in some bizarro world where everyone is completely oblivious to how buying and selling video games works


You certainly seem to not be able to understand why Cave hasn't ported the rest of their games to Steam yet. From seeing reviews, player activity and other stats, we can make an educated guess that Steam hasn't been the most profitable platform. And don't give me this Arcade Archives argument. They target a different demographic of a larger arcade culture, and it's also on console where sales don't happen as often. Hamster also owns quite a bunch of the IP's they publish, so no costs there. Arcade Archives is compared to the Steam Cave ports also a lot more stripped down. You get what you pay for in the end. It's almost just a playable ROM.

In the end, Cave has no obligation to keep their old stuff around, and you certainly don't have to buy their new stuff either. If they make more money with the mobile market, thats just the way people buy and sell games nowadays.


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:03 pm 


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Not sure, though. I'm under impression it's more about Degica giving up on shmups in general, not just Cave partnership. Look, all they did since castle shikigami 1 were rpg maker games. So now it's just City Connection and indie/doujin publishers that took the "bring stg to computer" relay race.

Also YIKES when i remember how GOG refused in Cave shmup publishing. Like, legendary games aint good enough for them.
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:08 pm 


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qmish wrote:
all they did since castle shikigami 1 were rpg maker games.

See, this is what we call ending on a high note 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:12 am 


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Quote:
Hey M2 no one has a fucking game gear


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:40 am 


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Hard to have any sympathy for developers and publishers who cripple their games with anti-player DRM. If they hadn't done that I might have bought some of them.
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:33 am 


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qmish wrote:
Not sure, though. I'm under impression it's more about Degica giving up on shmups in general, not just Cave partnership. Look, all they did since castle shikigami 1 were rpg maker games. So now it's just City Connection and indie/doujin publishers that took the "bring stg to computer" relay race.

Also YIKES when i remember how GOG refused in Cave shmup publishing. Like, legendary games aint good enough for them.


Degica did publish Crimzon Clover's switch port. I didn't even realize it was them, before seeing the publisher info on the page for the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:04 am 


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Meriscan wrote:
Arcade Archives is compared to the Steam Cave ports also a lot more stripped down. You get what you pay for in the end. It's almost just a playable ROM.


In fairness, that's not been true of the ACA series for quite some time now. Sure, they lack the M2 gadgets, but many of them offer multiple variants along with extra stability/performance/regional options these day. I'd say they're super packages for the seven quid a throw they cost.
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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:26 am 


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qmish wrote:
davyK wrote:
I could see it being played on a rotated undocked switch with the touchscreen. But. Really?




You don't. I believe those japanese phones were not touchscreen.

I might be wrong though, but still.



Oh dear.

:(


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:42 am 


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Marc wrote:
Meriscan wrote:
Arcade Archives is compared to the Steam Cave ports also a lot more stripped down. You get what you pay for in the end. It's almost just a playable ROM.


In fairness, that's not been true of the ACA series for quite some time now. Sure, they lack the M2 gadgets, but many of them offer multiple variants along with extra stability/performance/regional options these day. I'd say they're super packages for the seven quid a throw they cost.


Ah, it's been a while since I've actually looked at them. Makes me very happy to see it's been improved. M2 gadgets are overboard anyway in almost all cases.


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 Post subject: Re: Cave is just trolling us at this point
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:06 pm 



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Plus M2 have absolutely ballsed up the western releases of their games by not having a clue what regions to release them in (even when people have tried to tell them the biggest markets are US/UK/France/Mexico and Brazil) seeing the releases miss four of those was beyond stupid on their part.

I swear these devs want to keep it as a little niche industry and only make games for Japanese gamers.


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