Ghegs wrote:
Going a bit off-topic, but refunding a game you played through and liked just because you can is indeed horrible behavior. But developers trying to combat it by making their games artificially longer (and quite possibly making the game worse as a result) is not a good solution.
Seems that I hit rather good solution in Crisis Wing - continuing will always put you back to a checkpoint even if the instant respawn (the default option, though) is selected. The game does have infinite continues from the get-go but credit feeding still requires some patience since you need to at least get good enough progress at least one checkpoint before running out of lives.
The game has approx 3% refund rate which is less than the industry average (5 to 8 %)
While it's nice to see a bigger studio like Platinum actually making a shmup, this one looks pretty damn bad to be honest
-Some of the main shots (like the missile weapon) look tiny, basic and unsatisfying. The formation attacks are better though, at least
-Noticeable dead air in between enemy waves
-The waves themselves are very basic with mostly popcorn enemies that don't really challenge the player and barely attack, or even those classic euroshmup enemies that move stricly linearly downards and fire non-aimed bullets underneath them which means you can simply ignore them for more safety or get in the blind angles
-The stage is incredibly long (8 minutes, what the hell) and repetitive, with a rather featureless samey background of blue space and gray structures that repeat over and over
-The midboss does the Kusoplan thing of going at the bottom of the screen to pointblank you urghhhh. Mark of a bad game
This honestly comes off as no surprise to me since the AfterBurner/Space Harrier/Hang On levels in Bayonetta were also pretty horrible and overly long.
And the fact that this is stage 1 shouldn't make it more forgivable, if anything it's actually wayyy worse because this is the stage that you'll be playing the most (if we assume full-game full-runs rather than a by-chapter game structure) so having this incredibly boring-looking first stage right off the bat is a perfect way to not bother with the rest of the levels even if those are more exciting. (which I highly doubt they will)
RegalSin wrote:
I think I have downloaded so much I am bored with downloading. No really I bored with downloading stuff I might consider moving to Canada or the pacific.
I'm not a designer on the game, but seeing that it's a game with a ton of different weapon options/formations, I thought all the dead space and repetitious enemy patterns on the first level was entirely on purpose. It gives the player plenty of opportunity to "play around" with the various weapon options/formations to see exactly what they do, how they're effective, etc
Also see: Gunstar Heroes, another game with a long, repetitious, opening level with a lot of space. It throws a ton of weapon boxes at you, and basically just lets you play around with the different combos.
^ I agree with M.Knight. What you say is okay for the first runs, but at some point it gets tedious imo... Solution: a stand-alone tutorial (or stage 0 you can skip) or interesting optional challenges in that first stage (like scoring).
I'm looking forward to see how the game turns out, it has potential, but this gameplay video left me quite cold, especially the first min or so.
Last edited by SPM on Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There are three possible endings: the good one, the bad one and death" - Locomalito, Super Hydorah
The formation testing is definitely a valid point, but like SPM I also think an optional test room or tutorial level would have been the best place to let the player experiment with the various formations and weapons.
Gunstar Heroes had that a bit but since it's not autoscrolling for the most part, you can also dash trough the stage on subsequent playthroughs and make the levels shorter, which is not possible here.
Perhaps the levels here are really separate though, and you would actually only have to play this stage once before unlocking the next chapter/mission/stage? This could also explain the sheer length of the mission since the game wouldn't expect you to play all of the levels in one single sitting.
RegalSin wrote:
I think I have downloaded so much I am bored with downloading. No really I bored with downloading stuff I might consider moving to Canada or the pacific.
Have to be honest... Doesn't look exciting at all. With a studio with such an eye for candy... This looks uninspiring to say the least. They already mentioned about some DLC written by Kamiya... whatever that means.
xxx1993 wrote:I don't get why you people are shitting on the game like this... It doesn't look that bad... You're just giving yourself into the trolls.
Sorry, who are "the trolls" here? There's some imaginary force out to take down an obscure psuedo-sequel to a lesser-known shmup from 30 years ago? I'm always excited to hear about new shmups, but this looks objectively bad from the footage I've seen so far. It's fine to go for a retro aesthetic, like we saw with M2's amazing GG Aleste 3, but this is no GG Aleste 3.
Formerly known as 8 1/2. I return on my second credit!
How can the level be 8 minutes when the video is only 7 minutes long? Still a bit long for a shmup level, though.
Jonpachi wrote:It's fine to go for a retro aesthetic, like we saw with M2's amazing GG Aleste 3, but this is no GG Aleste 3.
I agree GG Aleste 3 is amazing, but it's an actual GG game that the developers showed working on an actual Game Gear. Not to mention that it's making full use of the hardware with amazing graphics for the system.
Last edited by BrianC on Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
xxx1993 wrote:I don't get why you people are shitting on the game like this... It doesn't look that bad... You're just giving yourself into the trolls.
Sorry, who are "the trolls" here? There's some imaginary force out to take down an obscure psuedo-sequel to a lesser-known shmup from 30 years ago? I'm always excited to hear about new shmups, but this looks objectively bad from the footage I've seen so far. It's fine to go for a retro aesthetic, like we saw with M2's amazing GG Aleste 3, but this is no GG Aleste 3.
Look. If this game has a deep story mode, even if it’s DLC, and Hideki Kamiya is involved, and we got Yuzo Koshiro doing the soundtrack, this game has to be a good one…
I kind of get the idea that this stage was created specifically to show off the formation attacks in a live setting. Long and easy, so there's no worries about getting to the end to fast or dying while formation changing.
xxx1993 wrote:Look. If this game has a deep story mode, even if it’s DLC, and Hideki Kamiya is involved, and we got Yuzo Koshiro doing the soundtrack, this game has to be a good one…
lol, what? Everybody has a miss. A collection of old men with great resumes does not mean they will always form creative Voltron and strike gold.
Formerly known as 8 1/2. I return on my second credit!
xxx1993 wrote:Look. If this game has a deep story mode, even if it’s DLC, and Hideki Kamiya is involved, and we got Yuzo Koshiro doing the soundtrack, this game has to be a good one…
lol, what? Everybody has a miss. A collection of old men with great resumes does not mean they will always form creative Voltron and strike gold.
I'm skeptical too, but funny you mention Voltron in regard to a game series based on formations.
I'm warming up to the gameplay even if 7 minutes for a 1st stage is pretty alarming, but those graphics really are pretty ugly. It's certainly better than aping 8-bit graphics for the millionth time, but damn man. Why couldn't they have just made it pretty?
BrianC wrote:How can the level be 8 minutes when the video is only 7 minutes long? Still a bit long for a shmup level, though.
I based my 8-minute comment on this video linked in previous page, where the stage starts at 0:02 and ends at 8:25. In the seven minute video the player destroys the bosses faster at the very least.
No matter how good a game is, somebody will always hate it. No matter how bad a game is, somebody will always love it.
xxx1993 wrote:
Look. If this game has a deep story mode, even if it’s DLC, and Hideki Kamiya is involved, and we got Yuzo Koshiro doing the soundtrack, this game has to be a good one…
Ah yes. Deep story modes have always been at the core of a great shooter.
It's certainly better than aping 8-bit graphics for the millionth time, but damn man. Why couldn't they have just made it pretty?
This, I agree with 1000%
In 1989, I thought by this point games like these were going to look like playing super-slick anime episodes.
Little did I know that by this point, games like these were going to look like they did in 1989...
m.sniffles.esq wrote:It's certainly better than aping 8-bit graphics for the millionth time, but damn man. Why couldn't they have just made it pretty?
This, I agree with 1000%
In 1989, I thought by this point games like these were going to look like playing super-slick anime episodes.
Little did I know that by this point, games like these were going to look like they did in 1989...
Technology has increased a lot since the 80's, but humans haven't changed at all. Until AI can become employed in creative endeavors to a better degree than it is today, there will always be the bottleneck of the amount of time a small number of human beings can spend making all of the STUFF in a game.
The main thing that has changed in video games is not only better tools, but the amount of staff assigned to commercial games. So, you need one or the other before you can improve the appearance of a game significantly.
I know what you're saying, but I was talking about the act of "antiquing" on purpose in order to look "retro"
Back in the Dreamcast days, Ikaruga, Border Down, and Under Defeat may have been "old school" in the fact they were shooters, but they looked and sounded as modern as anything else on that console.
It seemed that after that era, if you made a "old school" type game, automatically you would run all the assets through the "pixelate" filter in Unity, and do the soundtrack using the "chiptune" soft synth on your DAW. Basically, assigning artificial limitations in the interest of both intention (this game is supposed to be 'old school') and nostalgia, I suppose (doesn't it look like a game on the Genesis? Isn't that great?)
It actually looks like killing all enemy waves to get all the bonuses will be challenging and require a fair bit of memorization even on this first stage. There could be a rank system that increases with each wave bonus. Could be that the higher difficulty is meant as the default for experienced players. Platinum often inserts their name into a nondefault difficulty that offers the full experience.
Rastan78 wrote:Could be that the higher difficulty is meant as the default for experienced players. Platinum often inserts their name into a nondefault difficulty that offers the full experience.
Oh good to know, thanks! New shmups that want to reach a wider audience tend to do this now that I think about it. That first stage looks okay for a casual session though (but that's not something I look for in a shmup)
"There are three possible endings: the good one, the bad one and death" - Locomalito, Super Hydorah
BulletMagnet wrote:Stream incoming, though its title suggests a delay might be in the offing.
It better not be, otherwise I’m going ballistic over this…
There's more stuff hitting right now than I can keep track of, let alone the stuff I'm catching up on. I'm fine with it if it gets pushed back to the winter.
