New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

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Sumez
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Sumez »

Oh wow, that's nuts. How is that even possible? They can only drop on the center of the screen from the blue carrier planes, right?
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by emphatic »

Try it on the train stage. Don't bomb the orbs that appears in the middle of the playfield.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by DMC »

Game looks interesting! I am also interested in it if you take further orders. Nice to see Swedish STGs.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Samuray »

I guess I have to be that guy …… but is there a chance for a proper console port one day? And by that I mean hopefully in physical form (enough limited print pubs out there nowadays) and hopefully for Switch. :)
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by soupbones »

Dang - totally missed this Kickstarter. Please do another run of boards!
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by kebrank »

Isn’t it funny? You created a game, made a kit for around $150-170 and Exa charges $1500 for a tweaked Steam game …
I’ll take one when they are available. Thank you for making this game.
Thanks,
\o/.K.
mice wrote:
spmbx wrote:Personally i’m anxious to see an exa arcadia port for added operator revenue
You'd pay $1500? lol
The ~$150 I'm asking for is mainly because of the HW costs. :)

Maybe exa should introduce some kind of budget-label with way cheaper games and drop the "add something exa specific" for those games.
Then again the lack of devs maybe isn't a problem for them.
Udderdude wrote:I like the sharks on the PCB. :p
Thanks! :)
I was going to make some kind of 3D effect with the daughter boards for it as well, but haven't managed to get something nice out it.
So the final one will probably end up looking exactly like that.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by mice »

Look! It's at Mikado! \o/ I can now die happily. :D

https://twitter.com/babamikado/status/1 ... 6321196037
Image
kebrank wrote:Isn’t it funny? You created a game, made a kit for around $150-170...
It cost me more, though. Can't really compare this hobby project to a real business. :)
Samuray wrote:I guess I have to be that guy …… but is there a chance for a proper console port one day? And by that I mean hopefully in physical form (enough limited print pubs out there nowadays) and hopefully for Switch. :)
I might try to make a proper emulator for it one day. But not in the near future. :)
DMC wrote:Game looks interesting! I am also interested in it if you take further orders. Nice to see Swedish STGs.
soupbones wrote:Dang - totally missed this Kickstarter. Please do another run of boards!
The FPGA will be available in august next year, so unfortunately it won't happen until then. :(
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by OmegaFlareX »

mice wrote:Look! It's at Mikado! \o/ I can now die happily. :D

https://twitter.com/babamikado/status/1 ... 6321196037
Oh man, that's super cool, congrats. Hopefully it is featured on their YT channel at some point.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Sengoku Strider »

This is awesome, you did what M2 should have with their KyūKyoku collection. Everything looks really smooth.
Samuray wrote:I guess I have to be that guy …… but is there a chance for a proper console port one day? And by that I mean hopefully in physical form (enough limited print pubs out there nowadays) and hopefully for Switch. :)
That's going backwards. The real play here is to spin the board out into a new Neo Geo-style platform and build an empire which spans the stars, bringing light to millions of worlds without hope.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by mice »

OmegaFlareX wrote:Oh man, that's super cool, congrats. Hopefully it is featured on their YT channel at some point.
Looks like their streaming it on Thursday! Will be peeled to the screen. :D
https://twitter.com/babamikado/status/1 ... 4665441283
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by trap15 »

Congrats on the release, got mine the other day, it's really well done and great fun, especially on the harder difficulty! I've got notes to share with you in the near future though :wink:
Sengoku Strider wrote:The real play here is to spin the board out into a new Neo Geo-style platform and build an empire which spans the stars, bringing light to millions of worlds without hope.
If only people here actually seemed to want that :?
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by mice »

trap15 wrote:Congrats on the release, got mine the other day, it's really well done and great fun, especially on the harder difficulty! I've got notes to share with you in the near future though :wink:
Thanks, means a lot! Really looking forward to the list! :D
Thought I'd call the upcoming update "loco label", but I think maybe "- more of the SAME!" is a better name?
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Sumez »

mice wrote:
soupbones wrote:Dang - totally missed this Kickstarter. Please do another run of boards!
The FPGA will be available in august next year, so unfortunately it won't happen until then. :(
I'll gladly wait.
I loved what I played of the game, and now I really want the 2-ALL.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Jeneki »

OmegaFlareX wrote:Hopefully it is featured on their YT channel at some point.
Streamed today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goTvD0NIy38
Typos caused by cat on keyboard.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by mice »

Jeneki wrote:
OmegaFlareX wrote:Hopefully it is featured on their YT channel at some point.
Streamed today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goTvD0NIy38
To hear the reactions at the end of 2-5 is the sole reason for doing the game. So worth it. \o/

Players seem to be divided into two groups, those who think it's too hard and those who think it's too easy. There is a harder difficulty setting in the DIP switches, but there was no room for an easy one.
The yoko-dip weren't supposed to be there originally, that should have given me room for 2 more difficulties. Whish now I wouldn't have done the yoko-thing.
But, yeah, the lightning weapon is OP, I guess. :)
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Sengoku Strider »

That was great. It got a very good reception, the chat was into it the whole way, and the announcers had energy throughout as well (not always a given for these broadcasts). They were calling out all the little references, their reaction to stuff like the Twin Hawk-style helpers was fantastic. People in the chat even got the little English jokes ('Not the same,' etc.). It helps that it was the final game of their autumn shooting matsuri, as well as one of the few new titles, but it looks like the stream will do well for it; it's already got more views than Garegga the previous day.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by OmegaFlareX »

Yeah I watched the stream VoD yesterday. They seemed to enjoy it, as did I.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Sengoku Strider »

trap15 wrote:If only people here actually seemed to want that :?
I do not profess to know the economic necessities behind per-game pricing, but If EXA were able to pull off a home console with arcade level base performance that also was more in line with what AES cart retail prices had been, there'd be serious interest in these parts. I'm sure you know far better than I that the market for $2000 games represents a rarified audience.

But I don't just toss that statement out there; I know R&D for a platform like that can run into the millions, let alone manufacturing, distribution & marketing, with limited guarantee on a meaningful return. Especially during a global component shortage.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Ms. Tea »

trap15 wrote: If only people here actually seemed to want that :?
I would *love* something like that. I know it wouldn't be normal home game prices, but it'd definitely be a balancing point between a current "no home ports" policy and most peoples' inability to afford professional-priced new arcade boards. The idea of a modern-day AES isn't really realistic at all but it *is* a fun one.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Sumez »

Exa is probably a poor example, because most people already have computers at home running the same or similar hardware. :)
Its deal is mostly a licensing/branding thing.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

Does the Twin Tiger Shark jamma pcb save both high scores & high score initials to NVRAM or is it not present to begin with?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by To Far Away Times »

Ms. Tea wrote:
trap15 wrote: If only people here actually seemed to want that :?
I would *love* something like that. I know it wouldn't be normal home game prices, but it'd definitely be a balancing point between a current "no home ports" policy and most peoples' inability to afford professional-priced new arcade boards. The idea of a modern-day AES isn't really realistic at all but it *is* a fun one.

I was a kid during that time and I knew about the AES but never saw one in person. The envy of every kid with a gaming magazine. $650 for a console in mid 1990's money is crazy, when the competition was a 1/3 of the price. PS5 and Series X with their bleeding edge technology don't cost that much now, 20+ years later.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Sumez »

PC Engine Fan X! wrote:Does the Twin Tiger Shark jamma pcb save both high scores & high score initials to NVRAM or is it not present to begin with?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
Nothing is saved when you turn off the game
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

Thanks Sumez for the 411 on the Twin Tiger Shark jamma pcb not saving such high scores & high score initials upon powering it down for the night. My Atari Games Klax jamma pcb does save high scores & high score initials to NVRAM without the need for a backup battery whatsoever (which is remarkable considering it was released in February of 1990 to arcades worldwide with Namco of Japan handling sales & distribution of Klax jamma pcb conversion kits in Japan exclusively).

I first learned of the TTS jamma pcb kit being offered on Kickstarter through the digital "Arcade Heroes" newsletter & snagged such a LE pcb kit for my private arcade pcb stash alrighty. From what was mentioned on the TTS Kickstarter page, only 61 TTS full pcb kits were made/sold.

And has TTS been spotted/hosted at a Japanese game center recently (besides Mikado)?

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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Sumez »

I was allowed to borrow my friend's PCB and have been playing it the past couple of days.
Got the 2-ALL rather fast, and as I kinda expected, it was a 1 life clear as well, because the best way to make the game a lot easier is to not die.

And I think this also touches on my biggest issue with the game. While I really love how powerful you get with your weapon upgraded to maximum, especially with the accompanying graphics changes, the blue weapon is simply way too powerful at maximum power. Some of the boss fights are probably fine with it, but regular enemies die so fast there is barely anything to dodge. So once you are powered up, most of the game comes down to not overlooking that occasional stray bullet.

When you do get hit, the game shows its true colors, which involves a lot of really cleverly designed enemy patterns, enforcing plenty of cool clutch dodges, getting especially tight on the second loop. As much as I enjoy getting rewarded for playing well, it's sad that you barely even get to experience the "real" game once you do.
Conversely, I think recoveries can be very tedious. While I don't think they are unfairly hard at any point, it really does take ages to get any sort of power back.

Of course this is just my take and anyone might disagree. But I think it's worth looking at how Flying Shark solves this, since it's quite brilliant.
In that game, the red plane formations that give you shot powerups appear more frequently when you are at low power, while a lot of them will show up as yellow planes instead if you are already above a certain power level defined at that stage location. This means growing to max power will still take quite a while, but recovering above the lowest few levels can be done relatively fast as long as you survive the early onslaught.
A very simple way to do something similar in TTS could be changing the bomb drop from every alternating carrier drone to be a "P" drop while you are still on the first 2 to 3 levels, at least from stage 3 forward.

So, in short, I really love the game - but I wish the game was harder while at max power, but also that regaining power didn't take surviving for ages at very low power. Essentially, put those extra lives to good use. :D
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by emphatic »

When you play for score, it's harder even with max powerups, as the blue weapon is hard to tame when going for the bonus boss battles.

There should be a score condition (7 millions?) to enter the second loop IMHO. This would sorta *fix* the game for operators too. With that in place, you have to take risks to get to the second loop instead of just camping out in the center lower half of the screen with lightning shot.

I'm gonna watch your 2-ALL video now, I have been watching most of your streams as I've stopped playing the game now, hoping for a official rom update to drop before putting more time into it.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Sumez »

Yeah I don't think I really get scoring outside of the basic medal value increase. There are a few things I could have done additionally to pump up the score a bit, but compared to a ~20 mil total, all of those points seem kinda small considering what it takes to do them. But I think I'm also missing some more "obvious" stuff.... A friend of mine showed me the Swedish leaderboard, and there are a couple of scores that beat mine by a few millions.
I know I could sacrifice my remaining lives at the final boss for a few extra points (the run you linked previously scores about ~600k extra by doing so, and I could probably forego some more max powerups early on to max out the medal value earlier than I did (I intentionally skip one in my run, which means the vast majority of medals on st3 were still at max). This is another thing Monouchi does, and seems to be worth about 300k more than my run. I could probably also milk the st3 boss for a few more medals as well, so that's the first additional million accounted for.

Aside from this, there are two other factors I'm somewhat aware of.
1. The secret pickups that open up the hidden bonus rooms in each stage.
These generally don't seem to be "worth" going for, given the risk on certain stages. Of course every point counts, but they seem to be generally worth 30-40k each, which isn't much in the larger scheme where every medal is worth 10k. Either the gems you find here "should" be worth a lot more, or I'm missing something major?
One usage I do get out of the one on the first stage is that it'll allow me to destroy the same powerup carrier twice to pump up the medal value faster, but that doesn't seem to be possible on stage 2. And of course you get a free bomb refill, which can be exchanged into a free 50k (still small change, but if you do it on every stage, it adds up to 500k extra).

2. The red "bombing points" that usually award you 10k, but if a medal or the "?" pickup connects with one, it'll give you a secret 100k bonus.
I feel like this bonus is probably the core to higher scores, but forcing it seems very situational to me, and as far as I can tell it's not possible to get the bonus from a vast majority of them? There are two places where a "?" will usually fall into one on its own, and in one of those instances, you can also get it by letting a large tank live long enough to back on to it before you destroy it. And there's one on stage 5 you'll usually get simply by killing a tank on the right side as soon as it shows up.
I've tried many other places to leave tanks alive to see if they were gonna roll over one of these red spots, but usually they just stop or go in a different direction. This makes me think I'm missing something here, another way to force the 100k bonus out of way more of these spots?
One funny think I noticed is that when your ship goes down, if it crashes into one you get the bonus too. This might be another way to push the final boss for some extra points.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Steven »

I saw this game at Mikado recently. Didn't know that the maker was on this forum, though. They put your game right next to some of the most famous shooters of all time. Immediately to its right is an R-Type/R-Type II combination cabinet. DDP is to its left a few cabinets over. Guardian Force, Salamander 2, Garegga, Gradius II, the Toaplan sponsorship cabinet, and a few more are nearby. They put you in a nice place for sure.

I regret that I ran out of money and didn't get to play this game, but I'll be sure to try it next time I go there. I've been thinking of going recently, so maybe I'll stop by tomorrow. If there's another batch of PCBs, maybe I'll get one.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by emphatic »

Sumez wrote:there are a couple of scores that beat mine by a few millions.
In this game that only has two loops though, "a few millions" is a big difference in score. You really need to work HARD to get the high score in this game. Think about the small increments top CAVE players break records considering their overall scores. It's the same here. Every little thing you do counts in the end, but most important thing is to not die until the final boss. Top priority is leveling up your medals first of all, but bombing all the red eyes is important as well.
Sumez wrote:I know I could sacrifice my remaining lives at the final boss for a few extra points
If you suicide dive onto one of the two red eyes at the last boss fight after bombing the first eye, you can get 110K per life + change from the medals.
Sumez wrote:Aside from this, there are two other factors I'm somewhat aware of.
1. The secret pickups that open up the hidden bonus rooms in each stage.
These generally don't seem to be "worth" going for, given the risk on certain stages. Of course every point counts, but they seem to be generally worth 30-40k each, which isn't much in the larger scheme where every medal is worth 10k. Either the gems you find here "should" be worth a lot more, or I'm missing something major?
One usage I do get out of the one on the first stage is that it'll allow me to destroy the same powerup carrier twice to pump up the medal value faster, but that doesn't seem to be possible on stage 2. And of course you get a free bomb refill, which can be exchanged into a free 50k (still small change, but if you do it on every stage, it adds up to 500k extra).
On the later stages with max medals, you get to go back checkpoint wise, meaning more medals to pickup too, that's 10K a pop.
Sumez wrote:2. The red "bombing points" that usually award you 10k, but if a medal or the "?" pickup connects with one, it'll give you a secret 100k bonus.
I feel like this bonus is probably the core to higher scores, but forcing it seems very situational to me, and as far as I can tell it's not possible to get the bonus from a vast majority of them? There are two places where a "?" will usually fall into one on its own, and in one of those instances, you can also get it by letting a large tank live long enough to back on to it before you destroy it. And there's one on stage 5 you'll usually get simply by killing a tank on the right side as soon as it shows up.
I've tried many other places to leave tanks alive to see if they were gonna roll over one of these red spots, but usually they just stop or go in a different direction. This makes me think I'm missing something here, another way to force the 100k bonus out of way more of these spots?
One funny think I noticed is that when your ship goes down, if it crashes into one you get the bonus too. This might be another way to push the final boss for some extra points.
The question-mark pickup only shows up when you have collected all the "P" pickups. If you plan your route for leveling up your shot while as quickly as possible levelling up your medals, you will get the first question mark after the two pararell trains in stage 3, giving you your first 100K bonus. You can get one on stage 4 as well if you allow the drop plane to come as far to the right as possible before you kill it.

In stage 5 you can get another 100K bonus, it's a bit weird, so I'm not sure how to get it. The 100K bonus thing was a bug, I think. It was only supposed to be given out when you crash onto an eye.

The big submarines on stage 4 are worth 10K each as well, so make sure to kill all of those.
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Re: New Twin Tiger Shark - JAMMA Arcade - Kickstarter

Post by Sumez »

Thanks. Maybe I'll play a bit further going for "maximum" score, even though though I'm not a fan of riding that edge where every tiny mistake means a botched run. :P
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