M2 Toaplan collection

DenimDemon · Post by **DenimDemon** » Mon May 02, 2022 7:14 pm

Translated some bits of the magazine…So the title Same!Same!Same! is based on the film Tora!Tora!Tora! lol kinda of obvious but never crossed my mind…:)
Also another code for Teki-Paki? Ok!

jehu · Post by **jehu** » Mon May 02, 2022 8:16 pm

Anyone care to share their sense of Wardner's merits? I could never get into the game, and again didn't manage to really enjoy myself while working through the stages (w/ save states, for full transparency). Is this a game that unveils its design subtleties as you work towards the 1CC, or does the platforming always just feel sluggish and clunky?

Aesthetically, I see the charm. Prancing through forests and castles with a chubby Wizard, while the OST's poorly emulated horn sounds trumpet you onward to victory is quite a funny trip. In everything else, I never quite got it.

Sumez · Post by **Sumez** » Mon May 02, 2022 9:55 pm

Wardner is just your typical old setpiece based arcade platformer where you need to remember how to deal with certain encounters, after which the game becomes quite easy.
I'm not sure there's any hidden "merits" beyond its immediate charm. It's like a less entertaining Karnov basically.

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue May 03, 2022 12:44 am

So nobody else is getting sound glitching in Hishouzame on Switch? I think it's worse in handheld mode than docked, but I've avoided playing it on Switch for the most part because of it. It's really bad sometimes, too.

Skykid wrote:@Steven, thanks for taking the time to explain that. Now I understand why it’s being so elusive. I’ll have to go the two controller way, which I actually tried but couldn’t figure out why using pad 2 to start the game just reverted control to P1’s pad automatically. I’ll go into the options and try making the switch.

Sure, no problem. On PS4 you go to the controller screen in the options menu, press triangle, and it lets you freely choose which side you want to play on. Too bad the Switch won't let you do this. I really don't see a reason why the Switch version won't let you. I think I will try to figure out how to send M2 an email and ask them about this and the sound glitching.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Tue May 03, 2022 4:09 am

Steven wrote:So nobody else is getting sound glitching in Hishouzame on Switch? I think it's worse in handheld mode than docked, but I've avoided playing it on Switch for the most part because of it. It's really bad sometimes, too.

I'll check and see (I haven't noticed it yet, but the PS4 version may make it easier for me to compare). I also double dipped, though I'm still waiting for the PS4 (could arrive as soon as tomorrow since it's nearby) version.

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue May 03, 2022 4:25 am

Hey cool, turns out the flamethrower is actually a viable weapon for the first half of 2P Same!, which makes me happy because it's a really cool weapon. You'll probably want to switch to blue for the big green planes at the beginning of stage 2 and let 2 item carriers pass after you are able to switch back to the flamethrower in the second half of stage 2 so you don't miss a P, but it does actually work pretty well for everything except the green planes and the stage 3 boss.

BrianC wrote:
Steven wrote:So nobody else is getting sound glitching in Hishouzame on Switch? I think it's worse in handheld mode than docked, but I've avoided playing it on Switch for the most part because of it. It's really bad sometimes, too.
I'll check and see. I also double dipped, though I'm still waiting for the PS4 (could arrive as soon as tomorrow since it's nearby) version.

Cool, thanks. Here's a recording of it from a few days ago. This is probably the worst one that I've heard so far, but the audio is clearly having some problems: https://youtu.be/E19tIH_3xDk

jehu · Post by **jehu** » Tue May 03, 2022 4:38 am

I had the same audio issues. Not sure what caused it, but resetting the whole program fixed it.

Sumez · Post by **Sumez** » Tue May 03, 2022 5:17 am

Steven wrote:So nobody else is getting sound glitching in Hishouzame on Switch? I think it's worse in handheld mode than docked, but I've avoided playing it on Switch for the most part because of it. It's really bad sometimes, too.

I didn't have nay sound glitching, but the game occasionally stutters a bit, making the scroll seem a little uneven.
It's only a small amount, and I don't think it should impact gameplay at all. But coming right off the PCB it really stands out, and I'd expected M2's standard to be way beyond those kinds of issues, which is what irks me the most.

Wardner runs fine, amusingly.

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Tue May 03, 2022 5:22 am

I got the Hishozame sound glitching in handheld mode with gadgets on. Much less (if any) with gadgets off. No issues with Same x3 with gadgets on. Noticable slowdown in Hishozame with gadgets on too.

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue May 03, 2022 6:04 am

Sumez wrote:I didn't have nay sound glitching, but the game occasionally stutters a bit, making the scroll seem a little uneven.
It's only a small amount, and I don't think it should impact gameplay at all. But coming right off the PCB it really stands out, and I'd expected M2's standard to be way beyond those kinds of issues, which is what irks me the most.

Wardner runs fine, amusingly.

Yeah, the stuttering is quite odd for M2's typical level of quality. I don't know what the refresh rates on these games' PCBs are, but I imagine it's somewhere in the 55~57Hz range, and it's almost like M2 didn't quite finish optimizing them for a 59.94Hz signal. It's very obvious when you look at your plane's shadow, but still better than playing on MAME, which I don't know how to configure properly. This is somehow the first ShotTriggers release I've gotten on release day. I've always gotten the rest of them after all of the patches are already out, so I'm not sure how long they typically take to fix stuff. It's Golden Week right now, so they probably have the next few days off. Work begins as normal on Friday, so I imagine they'll come back on Friday to a heap of bug reports, so I doubt there will be any fixes until next week unless they are already working on some fixes.

BrianC wrote:I got the Hishozame sound glitching in handheld mode with gadgets on. Much less (if any) with gadgets off. No issues with Same x3 with gadgets on. Noticable slowdown in Hishozame with gadgets on too.

I didn't even think to turn the gadgets off. I normally die when I look at them, but I leave them on because they are kind of cool. I did notice some big slowdown about 2/3 of the way through stage 5 in Hishouzame when a huge amount of planes and tanks attack you as you fly over a beach, but I thought it was just because it was accurately reproducing slowdown from the PCB. I've only seen the first 2 stages on PCB, so I'm not sure how it performs at that part on the PCB.

DenimDemon · Post by **DenimDemon** » Tue May 03, 2022 6:45 am

I didn’t noticed the sound glitching but yeah that segment on stage 4 or so, over the beach, it slows down quite a bit. Have no ideia how it behaves on original hardware. Im sure they’ll patch if there’s some issues.
I’ve been playing docked Tate with No gadgets btw.

Sumez · Post by **Sumez** » Tue May 03, 2022 7:26 am

Steven wrote: Yeah, the stuttering is quite odd for M2's typical level of quality. I don't know what the refresh rates on these games' PCBs are, but I imagine it's somewhere in the 55~57Hz range

IIRC that's quite true. I've had issues making most of my Toaplan PCBs play ball with OSSC because they use refrest rates as low as ~56

DenimDemon wrote:I didn’t noticed the sound glitching but yeah that segment on stage 4 or so, over the beach, it slows down quite a bit. Have no ideia how it behaves on original hardware. Im sure they’ll patch if there’s some issues.

Pretty sure any straight up slowdown is just emulating the slowdown from the actual PCB.

DenimDemon · Post by **DenimDemon** » Tue May 03, 2022 7:56 am

Always find some fun Google translating the text lol

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue May 03, 2022 8:31 am

Sumez wrote:IIRC that's quite true. I've had issues making most of my Toaplan PCBs play ball with OSSC because they use refrest rates as low as ~56

You might just have convinced me to not buy any Toaplan PCBs. I was considering picking up a Slap Fight PCB and possibly a Hishouzame or 2P Same! PCB, but maybe not now! I wonder how they'd do with the RT5X and its triple buffer mode. You'd end up adding 0.25-1.25 frames of lag with the triple buffer engaged, but it would probably work. Fortunately my monitor only has about 5.6ms of lag, so I'd still be under 2 frames, but I also don't know how much lag the PCBs themselves have. I kind of retired my OSSC when I got the RT5X, but I actually do have it connected right now for Dreamcast VGA.

Actually, has anyone tested the M2 ShotTriggers releases and compared them to the PCBs? I know they have that reduce input lag option in the menu. Not sure why you'd ever want to turn that off, but you can if you want to.

DenimDemon wrote:

Always find some fun Google translating the text lol

lol it didn't even bother to translate the details at all and just says that it has many elements.

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue May 03, 2022 10:19 am

Hell yeah, 2P Same! clear get. It was on 2P side, so I still need to do the 1P side as well.

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Tue May 03, 2022 11:29 am

I hope M2 will announce the next collection soon.
Do you think they will?

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Tue May 03, 2022 2:17 pm

Oh shit, the artwork forms a collage. Now my Paint skills are garbage so I wasn't able to get this to line up and not look like trash, but you'll see what I mean once you take a look: https://imgur.com/a/Vm3tbWD

Up to Same! 1P stage 5 now. This feels possible somehow, but I already know it gets a lot harder from this point on.

gbaplayer wrote:I hope M2 will announce the next collection soon.
Do you think they will?

Extremely surprised they didn't do it during the stream on the 28th.

BareKnuckleRoo · Post by **BareKnuckleRoo** » Tue May 03, 2022 3:00 pm

Yeah, the artwork for the release is amazing. Speaking of which, does anyone have a source for a high res copy of the GetStar artwork they did? Or a way of purchasing a poster? I heard someone mention they did official posters as a limited prize for some contest, but that's about it.

TransatlanticFoe · Post by **TransatlanticFoe** » Tue May 03, 2022 5:14 pm

Arrived today, two days earlier than quoted. Picked up the Blaster Master Zero trilogy release as a makeweight to justify paying about £20 for premium postage (because I don't want it to disappear up the Suez Canal). Finally, a proper home port for the title which solidified my love for video games when I was young.

7ish year old me has been over the moon, 40 year old me died early in stage 1 - almost in sympathy for 7ish year old me, who could never clear the first stage.

Annoyingly had a good run going earlier when my stick's button started dropping inputs but no problem after swapping to the top button row, so at least isn't the game at fault. Will have to swap that fucker out. Haven't had any audio issues or anything else weird, playing Switch docked mode. The game does choke and slow down a little towards the end of stage 5 but I figured that was just how the original hardware was because it's when there's much more on screen than usual.

Had a fun little moment early on in stage 1, which I'd never seen before. Took the turret off a tank, then shot a plane down - the plane crashed and took out the rest of the tank

Haven't dipped into Fire Shark much yet (I've had the MD version for a while though), beside a HOLY FUCKING SHIT attempt at arcade mode and a WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS run through super easy mode - where the rank just goes utterly insane the moment you get a few bombs. And bombs you really do get, it seemed to be all the game gave me as power ups - very odd combination of shitting myself at lightning fast bullets fighting against a safe feeling from autobomb. Seriously what's up with the power ups? I got the flamethrower once in the entire game, and not until stage 8. It showed as coming up a few times, but then the queue got shuffled around

NES Sky Shark is awful. Dreadful collision detection and aggressive close-range sniping that'd put Raiden to shame. Paired with the awful soundtrack and shitty graphics, yeah not going back to that one.

Jonpachi · Post by **Jonpachi** » Tue May 03, 2022 11:55 pm

Calling it now, as I think there are some clues in the pattern...

BrianC · Post by **BrianC** » Wed May 04, 2022 12:29 am

I wonder if NES Sky Shark ran out of budget after the first stage. Actual good looking jungle backdrop and detailed water followed by a stage that's mostly a blue screen.

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Wed May 04, 2022 7:19 am

Switch 1P Same! does have slowdown in handheld mode! It's not a little, either; the entire game runs in slow motion! I was at the coin laundry doing laundry just now, so I brought my Switch, and I was like "why the fuck is everything so slow? Oh shit, there's the slowdown!". It's really bad. I didn't turn the gadgets off because my laundry finished, but it's definitely there for sure. I recorded some of it with the internal capture, as well. Not sure how it will look at only 30 FPS, but I do have some footage of it.

...and now that I'm at home and can turn up the volume, the music in 1P Same! is completely broken in handheld mode, as well. What the hell happened, M2?

Okay, without closing the game or anything, I called the menu, switched to 2P Same! and it was fine, so I went back to 1P and now everything is fixed, including the game speed. How strange.

TransatlanticFoe wrote:Had a fun little moment early on in stage 1, which I'd never seen before. Took the turret off a tank, then shot a plane down - the plane crashed and took out the rest of the tank

Yeah, that does happen. I can't think of a whole lot of other games where this happens, but it does here. That's that Toaplan attitude people are always talking about for sure.

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:Yeah, the artwork for the release is amazing. Speaking of which, does anyone have a source for a high res copy of the GetStar artwork they did? Or a way of purchasing a poster? I heard someone mention they did official posters as a limited prize for some contest, but that's about it.

Yeah, the artwork for the Toaplan Arcade Garage is beautiful. I hope we get to see the entire panorama put together eventually. It's going to be massive and amazing.

I still have not opened the Kyuukyoku Manual, but check in there for the Get Star artwork if you have it, as they put the Wardner cover art in Same Flying. If they did put it in there, scan it at a super high PPI and that should be good poster material.

Sumez · Post by **Sumez** » Wed May 04, 2022 7:35 am

K.Tiger-Heli has the K.Tiger art in there instead. Though that one would make a fantastic poster as well. I'd love posters of K.Tiger and Hizhou Same both.
Check out the reverse cover art on the new release if you haven't, it's amazingly badass.

Which reminds me....

jehu wrote:
Sumez wrote:If I were to guess it'll be a rendition of the Hishouzame arcade flyer.
That's a really badass flyer though, so that's cool.

Steven wrote:For the reverse cover, I imagine it's probably going to be this: http://gamelabo.jp/wp-content/uploads/2 ... 3597_o.jpg
Well boys, your bets are down. Anyone who guesses wrong has to 1CC Same! with Green.

Good luck, Steven.

the androgyne · Post by **the androgyne** » Wed May 04, 2022 10:13 am

Steven wrote:I am surprised that they didn't announce anything at all. No updates for Senjin Aleste, nothing on Aleste Branch, no Toaplan... nothing at all. I was basically watching it specifically for the announcements they typically do at the end, so when it just kind of ended I was kind of disappointed, especially since all they really did was introduce the super easy modes.

Their streams are almost always uneventful, going over already announced info and playing same bits of the games. If their stream even works! I hold out til the end as well but I’m not sure why I bother lol.

Horii did tweet that the next title would be “final Aleste” which is presumably Branch as his next tweet seemed to clarify that final doesnt mean final… but that’s gtranslate so hard to decipher what he means. https://twitter.com/hor11/status/1519346621649424384

If i was to guess I’d say Branch in July, next Toaplan in October. At a hobby show where the ship model from Branch was shown, that had a Summer release date which I’d expect to coincide with the game. Having said that it all seems a bit quick for M2 lol. Can’t believe how long I’ve been waiting for Branch. The optimist in me is hoping it’s bundled in an Aleste Collection 2 as well, but I’m trying not to get my hopes up for that to happen!

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Wed May 04, 2022 11:32 am

Sumez wrote:Good luck, Steven.

Done: https://youtu.be/zd5bj3l8_p0

lol good thing nobody ever specified that I can't do custom mode! Yes, the player hurtbox is apparently super fucking tiny in Super Easy because I never would have been able to pull off the incredibly flying I did in stage 6 otherwise. I checked frame by frame and there are a few times when bullets went right through my wings.

the androgyne wrote:Their streams are almost always uneventful, going over already announced info and playing same bits of the games. If their stream even works! I hold out til the end as well but I’m not sure why I bother lol.

Yeah, the previous stream was unwatchable. It was really bad. When Horii showed up late this time with his 復刻TIGER shirt for a moment I thought it was 遅刻TIGER. That would have been perfect.

Tarma · Post by **Tarma** » Wed May 04, 2022 2:37 pm

Got my copy yesterday and had a quick play through last night.

Lol, 1ccd Flying Shark on super easy (no lives lost) and then 1ccd Same! (one life lost).... good times. Great ports, so grateful for M2s work : )

I've mainly only played Same! through the Mega Drive port, and while it's impressive to see how close that port was to the original game, I was surprised out how much quicker the arcade plays. And the bullet speed when you start bomb hoarding... wow

Anyhoo, definitely a must buy for any Toaplan fan. Looking forward to the third installment now.

apatheticTurd · Post by **apatheticTurd** » Wed May 04, 2022 7:05 pm

Do the menu descriptions mention any differences for Flying Shark and Sky Shark?

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed May 04, 2022 7:08 pm

Do we know how these are selling? Are we likely to get the full line up?

TransatlanticFoe · Post by **TransatlanticFoe** » Wed May 04, 2022 9:03 pm

Steven wrote:Switch 1P Same! does have slowdown in handheld mode! It's not a little, either; the entire game runs in slow motion! I was at the coin laundry doing laundry just now, so I brought my Switch, and I was like "why the fuck is everything so slow? Oh shit, there's the slowdown!". It's really bad. I didn't turn the gadgets off because my laundry finished, but it's definitely there for sure. I recorded some of it with the internal capture, as well. Not sure how it will look at only 30 FPS, but I do have some footage of it.

...and now that I'm at home and can turn up the volume, the music in 1P Same! is completely broken in handheld mode, as well. What the hell happened, M2?

Okay, without closing the game or anything, I called the menu, switched to 2P Same! and it was fine, so I went back to 1P and now everything is fixed, including the game speed. How strange.

A couple of things:

1. Have you updated your Switch recently? Generally it's been good but one of the big updates recently caused my Switch to occasionally not read cards unless I restarted it. It's not been an issue since the most recent update, so perhaps worth checking you're up to date?

2. Do you do a full shutdown or use sleep mode, and close software after exiting it? I never trust sleep modes to work properly and 90% of the time "when did you last reboot your laptop?" leads to very sheepish end users at work, whose software issues always disappear after they've been told not to leave it in sleep mode for weeks

I've not had anything like this with the game, which doesn't rule out software bugs but it's either very specific to trigger or environmental. Sleep modes and/or other open software using resources sounds possible... I guess the other thing is handheld mode, how long were you playing for? Wonder if it's overheated and throttled CPU to compensate.

Some-Mist · Post by **Some-Mist** » Wed May 04, 2022 9:26 pm

not having spent hugely significant time on any of these toaplan releases, I'm struggling. significantly harder than something like tatsujin oh, but I'm also using the switch joycons instead of my stick and playing it on my big screen tv instead of a good monitor.
I'm still in love with them and with a week trip/some upcoming flights I'll be getting some practice runs/much needed mileage in, but yeeeesh

seems I'll have to touch on the stgweeklys too

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