M2 Toaplan collection

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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by XtraSmiley »

Jonpachi wrote:Yeah it seems the GetStar cover is an Amazon exclusive (and possibly other outlets?). I got mine from Play-Asia and didn't get one.
Yeah, Amazon always does alternate covers. I got one this time, but I'm still annoyed I messed up on ESP Ra.De. and didn't get that one, it's my favorite so far!
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pablumatic
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by pablumatic »

I pre-ordered the PS4 version of Kyūkyoku Tiger-Heli from Amazon specifically to get that Get Star cover. Hopefully it won't come to me trashed in shipping.
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BrianC
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by BrianC »

bigbadboaz wrote:Tiger II also runs on far more advanced hardware. Assuming M2 sticks to what they've claimed is emulatable to their standards at this point in time, it isn't realistic until they move to PS5-specific releases. And that would seem to be a LONG way off.
That's true that it runs on more advanced hardware, but they at least have experience with the hardware from emulating Darius Gaiden, which they somehow got running on both PS4 and Switch with minimal input lag, despite early emulation issues.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by bigbadboaz »

You're talking about the Taito collection, right? They seem to relax their standards when contracted by other companies. ShotTriggers is where they still adhere to what we think of as "M2 quality" and if I'm recalling correctly they went so far as to claim the PS4 couldn't even run Batrider to the level they'd insist on to add it to the library. Yes, despite Garegga being an early release. Apparently the cutoff of what the PS4 can handle is right at the slight board boost between those two games.

Things are always evolving but if that's still their thinking the F3 board is a much bigger step.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Koa Zo »

Jonpachi wrote:Yeah it seems the GetStar cover is an Amazon exclusive (and possibly other outlets?).
Just Amazon. It is optional for ¥1360 extra.
It is a cool cover. I'm hoping; as is known to happen, that Amazon puts their exclusive variant on sale after a few weeks, and it ends up being cheaper than the standard edition.
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hamfighterx
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by hamfighterx »

pablumatic wrote:I pre-ordered the PS4 version of Kyūkyoku Tiger-Heli from Amazon specifically to get that Get Star cover. Hopefully it won't come to me trashed in shipping.
Hopefully not much to worry about. They did such a good job packing my Switch version and the additional booklet that I actually took a picture when I opened it and sent to a friend to compare it to the garbage shipping you see from Amazon US (toss it in a box with no protection and hope it gets there OK). Shrink wrapped onto cardboard and well secured, arrived in flawless shape.

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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by XtraSmiley »

hamfighterx wrote:
pablumatic wrote:I pre-ordered the PS4 version of Kyūkyoku Tiger-Heli from Amazon specifically to get that Get Star cover. Hopefully it won't come to me trashed in shipping.
Hopefully not much to worry about. They did such a good job packing my Switch version and the additional booklet that I actually took a picture when I opened it and sent to a friend to compare it to the garbage shipping you see from Amazon US (toss it in a box with no protection and hope it gets there OK). Shrink wrapped onto cardboard and well secured, arrived in flawless shape.

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DHL was a day late bringing mine and completely destroyed the box so bad they had to repackage it, but the double shrink wrap Amazon Japan did resulted in my game and book being completely damage free!

Also, this game rocks! I even like playing the NES and Genesis versions of the games, the PCE version seems like crap though!

GetStar... wow, I've never played it. I hated it at first, now... damn. It's so addicting..

The puzzle game though, hmm, not sure I like it, outside of the sound track...
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Rastan78
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Rastan78 »

bigbadboaz wrote:You're talking about the Taito collection, right? They seem to relax their standards when contracted by other companies. ShotTriggers is where they still adhere to what we think of as "M2 quality" and if I'm recalling correctly they went so far as to claim the PS4 couldn't even run Batrider to the level they'd insist on to add it to the library. Yes, despite Garegga being an early release. Apparently the cutoff of what the PS4 can handle is right at the slight board boost between those two games.

Things are always evolving but if that's still their thinking the F3 board is a much bigger step.
What aspect of the Darius collection isn't M2 quality? I wouldn't mind if they added more replay save slots, but other than that it's about as good as it gets. The original version of the F3 emulation released back when it was Switch exclusive had to be patched, but since then I haven't seen anyone point out issues with it.
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BrianC
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by BrianC »

bigbadboaz wrote:You're talking about the Taito collection, right? They seem to relax their standards when contracted by other companies. ShotTriggers is where they still adhere to what we think of as "M2 quality" and if I'm recalling correctly they went so far as to claim the PS4 couldn't even run Batrider to the level they'd insist on to add it to the library. Yes, despite Garegga being an early release. Apparently the cutoff of what the PS4 can handle is right at the slight board boost between those two games.

Things are always evolving but if that's still their thinking the F3 board is a much bigger step.
They definitely didn't relax their standards with the Darius Cosmic Collection. Under 4 frames input lag (even with Darius Gaiden, which was originally around 5 frames) and the same sort of gadgets and settings that are used in the ShotTriggers games. While that could possibly be said for the Konami collections and definitely said of the first of the recent Mega Man X collections (which had minimal M2 involvment, despite them nailing the emulation for the New 3DS version), most of the SEGA Ages games on Switch were well done, as well, including Virtua Racing. Didn't M2 also do the incredible G-Darius port under Taito?

M2 already dealt with some of the rough edges of F3 and managed to get Darius Gaiden running with 4 frames or less of input lag on switch and PS4. That's a huge step. Tiger II is still unlikely for other reasons, though. It was finished after Toaplan went under and is possibly still in limbo.

I'm still waiting on mine from Play-Asia. I usually have a good experience from Amazon JP, but Cotton Reboot PS4 got stuck in customs. DHL replaced the Amazon packing and took forever to deliver because of a delay, though I suspect it was really because they didn't want me to see that the game was mishandled in customs. While the disc wasn't harmed, the case was badly damaged and the game was loose in the case. I had to replace the case. That wasn't the reason I went with Play-Asia, though. The shipping is slightly higher at Amazon than it was before, though my last experience with them, the PS4 Saturn Cotton collection, was a positive one (even though my experience with the collection itself isn't completely positive).
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by OmegaFlareX »

XtraSmiley wrote:Also, this game rocks! I even like playing the NES and Genesis versions of the games, the PCE version seems like crap though!
How have you never played Kyuukyoku Tiger/Twin Cobra before? It's a timeless classic in the genre. One that codified a lot of modern shmup tropes. Well, Flying Shark did that too, but KT/TC is a more refined version.

Also, hard disagree about the PCE version. That's the best home port of its era, IMO.
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hamfighterx
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by hamfighterx »

I completely agree, PCE version is the highlight of all of the console ports IMO. And this is coming from someone with very little experience with the home ports (I probably rented the NES game back in the 80s or something...). Definitely enjoying playing the console versions on this collection though.

Another comment on this release... M2 did fantastic work with the gadgets on this one, maybe my favorite implementation in any of the ShotTriggers releases. The huge stage map on the right side is fantastic and gives more valuable information than previous map gadgets (hidden bonuses in Tiger Heli, bonus locations, stage breaks, etc.) The power up changing timer is great. The warning/danger directional indicator is great. The shot number/level gauge is useful. Makes me even more excited for the future Toaplan releases, knowing that M2 is being really thoughtful about these great supplemental tools.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Jonpachi »

As someone that only plays vert games on a dedicated Tate display, these gadgets are always lost to me. I would love it if there was some sort of hybrid solution for Tate players.
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hamfighterx
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by hamfighterx »

Yeah, it would be nice to have more window options for TATE. Maybe adjusting to at least be able to put some of the smaller gadgets on the top/bottom of the screen in TATE mode (much like the Cave 360 ports and their window options) - there's some room if you're using something like a rotatable 16:9 monitor.

I'm also typically TATE when possible for games that were originally designed for a vertically oriented monitor, but for these ShotTriggers games I've tended to go to the dark side of playing *gasp* a vert scroller on a normal widescreen TV for the bonuses. Main play screen is still plenty big enough in Yoko to easily see the full screen with original proportions, but you get some perks. For some of them, the gadgets are less vital than others so TATE is totally an option without losing much - for instance, I don't feel the gadgets are hugely important for the ShotTriggers Cave games (Dangun Feveron, Ketsui, Esp Ra.De.), though I still tend to play them mostly in Yoko + gadgets on an HDTV.

But man, for Kyukyoku Tiger I feel like it's actually a significant loss to give up the M2 gadgets. I enjoy the game more with the extra gauges and well done map panel. Feels like maybe the future Toaplan stuff could be similar.

Garegga, and maybe to a lesser extent Mahou Daisakusen, also present a bit of a tough call. Rank meter is VERY nice to have, but I could live without it if I felt like going TATE and making it more of that original arcade feel. Would be best if you could at least stick a few of the smaller gadgets in a vertically letterboxed TATE mode though.

For Aleste Collection I don't care about TATE at all since the original games weren't designed for a vertically oriented cabinet.

This is also particularly relevant for the Switch versions of these games, since playing them handheld with gadgets makes the gameplay screen a little uncomfortably small. Portable TATE mode (with a stand, flip grip, whatever) seems the way to go there - I like that for Esp Ra.De. But you lose out on gadgets that way...
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by CricketyJimit »

I think you can display (some of) the gadgets in tate in all of the shottriggers games, it's just that they're automatically switched off by default when you change your display settings.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Tarma »

Got my copy from Amazon.Jp yesterday, and I'm really pleased with it so far.

I've been a big fan of the PCE port of KT for quite a while, and playing the arcade version on this Toaplan pack has highlighted just how close that PCE version is to the original game for me.

Question - how do you get the in-pack dlc code to work? I redeemed it on the PlayStation store and it's done nothing, so all the "bonus" content is still locked. What am I doing wrong? :?
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Jonpachi »

Tarma wrote:Question - how do you get the in-pack dlc code to work? I redeemed it on the PlayStation store and it's done nothing, so all the "bonus" content is still locked. What am I doing wrong? :?
Did you redeem it on a Japanese account? It won't work otherwise. The DLC should automatically download and be added to the base game, while Teki Paki will show up as a separate download.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by mycophobia »

got a switch copy of ktiger coming in some time next week. guess i have to clear it now
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

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OmegaFlareX wrote:
XtraSmiley wrote:Also, this game rocks! I even like playing the NES and Genesis versions of the games, the PCE version seems like crap though!
How have you never played Kyuukyoku Tiger/Twin Cobra before? It's a timeless classic in the genre. One that codified a lot of modern shmup tropes. Well, Flying Shark did that too, but KT/TC is a more refined version.

Also, hard disagree about the PCE version. That's the best home port of its era, IMO.
I never played many shooters in the arcades sadly. I'm catching up now!

As for the PCE port, I only gave it a few minutes, but graphics seemed pretty bad, I'll give it more time later, but to be honest, I don't see a reason to try a port of a console version when I have a pretty good port of the arcade PCB, but I'll default to anyone here who is knowledgeable about a reason to dig into the console ports.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by mycophobia »

pce version is cheap as hell. enemies point blank the crap out of you
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by drunkninja24 »

CricketyJimit wrote:I think you can display (some of) the gadgets in tate in all of the shottriggers games, it's just that they're automatically switched off by default when you change your display settings.
Yeah I play mostly in TATE and have gadgets turned on for all the M2STG ports I own. Though for this collection you do miss out on some things like the stage maps pointing out stage secrets and when enemies are gonna be coming from various directions which is quite helpful. But there's still helpful info even with the TATE version of the gadgets (things like the yellow item counters and secret car shot indicator in Tiger-Heli for example), it juts isn't able to be as upfront or extensive, which is a bit of a shame but understandable.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by TransatlanticFoe »

mycophobia wrote:pce version is cheap as hell. enemies point blank the crap out of you
Yep I gave it a few plays and found it was just really aggressive both with shots fired at point blank and choppers suiciding into you. I had a checkpoint respawn on stage 1 and as soon as play resumed a blue chopper just flew straight into me. The game has some tough checkpoint recoveries, but that moment from the PCE port was just WTF.

Music is great though. But the MD port is still my favourite, it's intense but it still plays fair.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Tarma »

Jonpachi wrote:
Tarma wrote:Question - how do you get the in-pack dlc code to work? I redeemed it on the PlayStation store and it's done nothing, so all the "bonus" content is still locked. What am I doing wrong? :?
Did you redeem it on a Japanese account? It won't work otherwise. The DLC should automatically download and be added to the base game, while Teki Paki will show up as a separate download.
Sure did - the code isn't valid outside the Jpn store. I'll have another look later, but at first glance it's done nothing. Haven't tried the Teki Paki code yet.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by mycophobia »

TransatlanticFoe wrote:
mycophobia wrote:pce version is cheap as hell. enemies point blank the crap out of you
Yep I gave it a few plays and found it was just really aggressive both with shots fired at point blank and choppers suiciding into you. I had a checkpoint respawn on stage 1 and as soon as play resumed a blue chopper just flew straight into me. The game has some tough checkpoint recoveries, but that moment from the PCE port was just WTF.

Music is great though. But the MD port is still my favourite, it's intense but it still plays fair.
wait i think i was thinking of the MD version
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by scrilla4rella »

I adore the PCE port. Played it heavily in the early 00s when I first got my PCE. I found the Genesis/Mega Drive port super unfair with off screen tank snipers. It's like they didn't adjust the enemy placement when squashing the vertical orientation into a hori. It's a shame because the music on the MD/Genesis port fucking rocks.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by BrianC »

I'm still waiting for the Switch physical, but I bought the digital + DLC on PS4, as well. Was surprised to see a Sega copyright, probably due to the Sammy/Treco published ports.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Jeneki »

Tiger Heli has a fun widget in the bottom left that tracks your progress through each area: First half, middle half, and second half. Because half means three parts right? :lol:
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Jeneki »

After running through the game modes, I'd like to bring up the Easy Mode. I've always felt like this is a failing point in most modern shmup releases; you get a standard arcade mode, and then an easy mode that's so insultingly easy my dead grandmother can clear it, with no middle ground. As an example of something that feels about right, 360 Futari's Novice Ultra.

The easy modes for Kyokyuko and Tiger Heli do a big change: they increase your movement speed. While it doesn't sound like much, this one change makes them feel like all new games. Especially in Tiger Heli where you can swiftly maneuver the limited shot into range, taking out targets that would normally be out of reach. Kyokyuku easy doesn't nerf the bullet speed or quantity, so it still has intense sections and avoids feeling like baby's first shmup. Pretty fun for an easy mode.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Sima Tuna »

Jeneki wrote:After running through the game modes, I'd like to bring up the Easy Mode. I've always felt like this is a failing point in most modern shmup releases; you get a standard arcade mode, and then an easy mode that's so insultingly easy my dead grandmother can clear it, with no middle ground. As an example of something that feels about right, 360 Futari's Novice Ultra.
Do you think standard/maniac Mushi Novice is too easy also? I found that by far the hardest novice mode in the cave ports that I played. Espgaluda II is definitely too easy on novice (both black label and normal were first-time 1cc clears for me iirc, which is insane since I suck at shmups.) But novice Mushi has some teeth.
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Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Jeneki »

Oh yeah, different people succeed or struggle with different things. For example I've heard many times that Formation Armed F is tame for an 80s arcade game, however the third stage pwns me every time even after spending time practicing and memorizing enemy positions.
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