M2 Toaplan collection

This is the main shmups forum. Chat about shmups in here - keep it on-topic please!
User avatar
Sumez
Posts: 8019
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Denmarku
Contact:

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Sumez »

Yes, I would absolutely love that a whole damn lot.
It looks like there's a lot of really interesting information in there
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 18990
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by BIL »

Steven wrote:Take a look at that embedded tweet; that's Uemura-san saying that he's seen everyone worrying about the M2 releases, but that nothing is changing. M2 apparently bought the rights for basically everything except Mahjong Sisters and Enma Daio (Enma Daio requires the use of a special controller that measures your pulse, so it will almost certainly never be rereleased. The game, cabinet, and controller are all stupidly rare, so you will likely never see it in your life) so I don't know if it would be financially viable for them to actually stop the series, as they might end up losing money if they don't continue releasing them if they haven't reached their break-even point yet, and they apparently do not make a lot of money on ShotTriggers.
Excellent to have further confirmation, cheers. :smile: Warms me heart that Uemura-san himself popped in. :mrgreen:
Oh yes, I might as well ask this now before I forget; does anyone want me to go through and translate the books that come with the M2 Toaplan releases? I don't know to what extent I will be able to translate them, or if I will do entire books or just parts that I find interesting, but if anyone wants me to do it, I might as well. I imagine a lot of it will likely be covered in the documentary, but I don't know.
That'd be wonderful! MAHVEROUS even. :cool:
Steven
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 5:24 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Steven »

I'll see what I can do for translations, although I have not decided exactly how I'll do it. I still have not even removed them from the plastic bags they came in...

I am not a professional translator or anything, and I'm basically guaranteed to have to learn some new words, but I have been wanting to improve my rather limited vocabulary of Japanese game development terms for some time anyway. I will figure something out and make a thread eventually. Maybe I'll do it all at once and maybe I'll do it in increments. Not sure yet.

I imagine there will likely be some information overlap with the documentary, of course, but having more Toaplan information in English will be a good thing.
BIL wrote:Excellent to have further confirmation, cheers. :smile: Warms me heart that Uemura-san himself popped in. :mrgreen:
He's a really great dude, and he absolutely loves his games and the fact that people are still playing them. It's great to see that he's still actively talking about them to random people on Twitter. He doesn't have to, but he does. He's seriously a damn treasure. I can't wait to see what he has to say in the documentary.
Steven
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 5:24 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Steven »

Okay, I took a look at the M2 books. There is some interesting information here, especially:

two interviews featuring the very rarely-interviewed Iwabuchi Koetsu (graphic designer: Get Star, Slap Fight, Hishouzame, Kyuukyoku Tiger, Same! Same! Same!, Dogyuun, etc.)
most likely the first ever interview featuring Nakaoka Shintaro (graphic designer: Zero Wing, Same! Same! Same!, most of the Mega Drive ports, etc.)
most likely the first ever interview featuring Wada Etsuhiro (programmer: Get Star, Slap Fight, Wardner no Mori, Out Zone, etc.)
special feature on the very rare Japanese 2P version of Kyuukyoku Tiger
long interview with Koshiro Yuzo on Get Star and 80s arcades (yes, he talks about Space Harrier. You didn't expect him to not talk about Space Harrier, did you?)
interview with crossfish, the creator of the Same! Same! Same! Funwari Kouryaku (this awesome website, in case you've never seen it: https://crossfish.sakura.ne.jp/same/TOP/top.html)

I should have gone to sleep several hours ago since I have to wake up in 7 hours to go to work, but tomorrow I will likely start working on these. Some of these are quite long, and I am not a pro translator or anything, so it might take a while, but I will see what I can do. I will likely do the ones with Nakaoka and Wada first since we have literally never heard from those guys before.
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 18990
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by BIL »

Sounds fascinating, especially Koetsu - Hishouzame, Kyuuykoku Tiger and Same3 are some of my defining military STGs, while Dogyuun's crazy mecha world is seemingly another thing entirely... and yet, seeing them all in the same sentence really highlights the slight near-futuristic / alternate-history machine stylings of even the biplane STGs. Would love to hear from him, might have some wild influences. Take your time and get plenty of sleep, good archaeology should never be rushed. :mrgreen:
Last edited by BIL on Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
EmperorIng
Posts: 5065
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:22 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by EmperorIng »

Sumez wrote:
hamfighterx wrote:In the wake of the Embracer acquiring Tatsujin news, it was nice to see that M2 confirmed the 3rd Toaplan Arcade Garage release is still in the works. https://twitter.com/M2_game/status/1560 ... 8dwsUdb6vw
That's a relief. A little worrying that they worded it like this though, and didn't provide any guarantee that the series would continue beyond that.
They might have to ramp up their release schedule from one every decade to one every five years to keep up with the Jones'.

Just release batsugun and pack it with, i dunno, v-v, ghox and fucking Horror Story for all i care before the Saudis swoop in and milk all the dad-grabbers first.
User avatar
hamfighterx
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:45 pm
Location: Bonus Round

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by hamfighterx »

Steven wrote:Okay, I took a look at the M2 books. There is some interesting information here, especially:

two interviews featuring the very rarely-interviewed Iwabuchi Koetsu (graphic designer: Get Star, Slap Fight, Hishouzame, Kyuukyoku Tiger, Same! Same! Same!, Dogyuun, etc.)
most likely the first ever interview featuring Nakaoka Shintaro (graphic designer: Zero Wing, Same! Same! Same!, most of the Mega Drive ports, etc.)
most likely the first ever interview featuring Wada Etsuhiro (programmer: Get Star, Slap Fight, Wardner no Mori, Out Zone, etc.)
special feature on the very rare Japanese 2P version of Kyuukyoku Tiger
long interview with Koshiro Yuzo on Get Star and 80s arcades (yes, he talks about Space Harrier. You didn't expect him to not talk about Space Harrier, did you?)
interview with crossfish, the creator of the Same! Same! Same! Funwari Kouryaku (this awesome website, in case you've never seen it: https://crossfish.sakura.ne.jp/same/TOP/top.html)

I should have gone to sleep several hours ago since I have to wake up in 7 hours to go to work, but tomorrow I will likely start working on these. Some of these are quite long, and I am not a pro translator or anything, so it might take a while, but I will see what I can do. I will likely do the ones with Nakaoka and Wada first since we have literally never heard from those guys before.
This would be fantastic, really appreciate your willingness to translate any of this stuff. From the ones you listed, I'm most interested in the Wada interview!
User avatar
Sumez
Posts: 8019
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Denmarku
Contact:

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Sumez »

I'm on board on the Wada one as well. I find it more interesting to hear what a programmer has to say about the game than a graphics designer, since they were hands-on on the mechanics and a lot of design decisions.
Steven
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 5:24 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Steven »

Thanks guys. I'll see what I can do. Wada's interview is specifically covering Wardner, so if you like that game, there you go. I'll probably get this one first since there is interest in it and because he's never been interviewed before.

Iwabuchi talks about Hishouzame with Uemura and Yuge, and the other Iwabuchi interview is also the one with Nakaoka, in which they discuss Same! Same! Same! with Yuge. Nakaoka's first ever interview as far as I know + a rare Iwabuchi intervew = this one will probably come next.

I've not read the interviews yet, but I have skimmed through a few of them and I have seen some information that I do not think has ever been published/revealed before. Ever wondered why Hishouzame is called either Sky Shark or Flying Shark overseas, depending on the region? Well, I know why now because it's in part of the Hishouzame interview that I glanced through. It's not a terribly exciting reason, but it's there. I'll probably get this one third. We hear from Uemura and Yuge all the time, but Iwabuchi is here, as well, and I want to prioritize the guys we've never heard from for now since we have like 6 trillion Uemura/Yuge interviews already.

On Iwabuchi: this guy has rarely been interviewed, or even mentioned, as there are only the 2 interviews on shmuplations that I have seen, and he has like 3 lines total in one of them, but when you line up all of his works you realize that he was very important to Toaplan's visual design for almost the entirety of its existence. He wasn't there from the beginning, and he seems to have moved over to planning/PR/marketing after Dogyuun (and there is a picture of Uemura out there from around the same time that identifies Uemura as head of marketing or something like that, which explains why he didn't make any games after Dogyuun), but he is a very important, and very neglected, early staff member. He's in the documentary, fortunately.

There are 2 other interviews, as well:

Yuge on Tiger-Heli, Get Star, and Kyuukyoku Tiger. We've heard from him a lot over the years, so I'll probably do this one later.
interview about the RC Berg Kyuukyoku Tiger helicopter model with its designers (yes, this is the model Martin mentioned over in the Embracer thread recently)

The rest of the books' contents are basically just walkthroughs for the games. I doubt there is anything in there that we don't know already, but I will check just to be safe.

I will make a new thread to make everything easier to find and to reduce clutter in this thread once I've got something to post.
User avatar
DenimDemon
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 6:15 pm

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by DenimDemon »

M2 is doing location test of the latest collection.
Showing off super easy mode :)

https://twitter.com/M2_game/status/1569 ... nECNEzbl-Q
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 18990
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by BIL »

God that's beautiful to see Image Was a long road from the OG board to home and back again. :mrgreen:
User avatar
Sumez
Posts: 8019
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Denmarku
Contact:

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Sumez »

Seems a little late for a location test?
Steven
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 5:24 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Steven »

User avatar
Austin
Posts: 1263
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:32 pm
Location: Fairfax, VA
Contact:

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Austin »

DenimDemon wrote:M2 is doing location test of the latest collection.
Showing off super easy mode :)

https://twitter.com/M2_game/status/1569 ... nECNEzbl-Q
That whole setup seems like a great idea. I dig it.
User avatar
bottino
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:05 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by bottino »

Steven wrote:Best part = creator's approval: https://twitter.com/u_brand_/status/1569967881563275270
:) If Uemura-san is happy, I'm happy.
XtraSmiley
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:22 am
Location: Washigton DC

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by XtraSmiley »

So what's the consensus on why there has been no news in months? The Genesis mini 2? Do we think we'll hear something once that's finally out in a month? How long is it usually between M2 shmups releases?
NuclearPotato
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:53 am

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by NuclearPotato »

I mean, we already know what the next Shottriggers release is going to be: it's the Ray'z collection for Taito early next year. Between that, the Genesis Mini 2, and M2 trying to squeeze out a home release of that Aleste game they made, it's pretty understandable that the Toaplan collections have fallen to the side. Personally I wouldn't expect to hear anything about the next collection until after the Ray'z collection comes out.
XtraSmiley
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:22 am
Location: Washigton DC

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by XtraSmiley »

NuclearPotato wrote:I mean, we already know what the next Shottriggers release is going to be: it's the Ray'z collection for Taito early next year. Between that, the Genesis Mini 2, and M2 trying to squeeze out a home release of that Aleste game they made, it's pretty understandable that the Toaplan collections have fallen to the side. Personally I wouldn't expect to hear anything about the next collection until after the Ray'z collection comes out.
Wait, really? I thought the Ray'z collection was something like October 2023... that's a year away, or did I get the date wrong?

EDIT: Looks like I did, it's March 2023, but yeah, with the physical version likely taking an extra 6 months to get here, that's why I was thinking October.

Ugh, I would normally grab the Japanese version as soon as it comes out, but I do want that DLC that will only be on the western release...
Steven
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 5:24 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Steven »

Went to Akiba today and came home with a beautiful JAMMA Slap Fight PCB, went back to Akiba to meet with a certain friend of mine, and we went over to Taito Hey. They have M2's Wardner out for location test now!

BTW yes, I know. M2 translations. They are coming. I promise. Been busy with work and... something else that I can't talk about yet. You'll see it eventually. Trust me, it's awesome.
XtraSmiley
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:22 am
Location: Washigton DC

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by XtraSmiley »

Steven wrote:They have M2's Wardner out for location test now!
What are they testing with Wardner? Is this just the PS4 version or something else?
Steven
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 5:24 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Steven »

XtraSmiley wrote:
Steven wrote:They have M2's Wardner out for location test now!
What are they testing with Wardner? Is this just the PS4 version or something else?
They are actually location testing all 3 games on the collection, so it's Hishouzame (already over), Same! (already over) and Wardner is on right now. Not sure exactly what version it is.
User avatar
Sumez
Posts: 8019
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Denmarku
Contact:

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Sumez »

Steven wrote:Went to Akiba today and came home with a beautiful JAMMA Slap Fight PCB
If that PCB is actually jamma, someone has been pulling your leg :P
User avatar
Redfox
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:10 am
Location: FL

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Redfox »

It definitely looks like it's just the PS4 release. Going by the Twitter picture(s) in this thread it's like the location took a Viewlix cab, dropped a big old LCD in front of the regular screen (or just popped the top half off) and dropped a PS4 or PS5 inside and called it a day.

Seeing as how good M2's ports are and the fact that an operator could modify the arcade control buttons accordingly, the port could easily be operated for money.

Steven, does this rig take money (it looks like it does in the picture with the card tap thingy on the panel). If it takes money to play is that against Sony regulations regarding licensing and their platform, would they be in compliance?

Any old op out there could do a rig like this (and many do in seedy locations, I've seen it first hand in this country) for under a grand and route these ports...
XtraSmiley
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:22 am
Location: Washigton DC

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by XtraSmiley »

Sumez wrote:
Steven wrote:Went to Akiba today and came home with a beautiful JAMMA Slap Fight PCB
If that PCB is actually jamma, someone has been pulling your leg :P
Even if it wasn't JAMMA it's probably a bootleg. This is one game I've seen more bootlegs for than any other game!
Steven
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 5:24 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Steven »

Redfox wrote:Steven, does this rig take money (it looks like it does in the picture with the card tap thingy on the panel). If it takes money to play is that against Sony regulations regarding licensing and their platform, would they be in compliance?
Yes, it takes money. I didn't give it any since I can just play the exact same thing at home.
Sumez wrote:
Steven wrote:Went to Akiba today and came home with a beautiful JAMMA Slap Fight PCB
If that PCB is actually jamma, someone has been pulling your leg :P
XtraSmiley wrote:
Sumez wrote:
Steven wrote:Went to Akiba today and came home with a beautiful JAMMA Slap Fight PCB
If that PCB is actually jamma, someone has been pulling your leg :P
Even if it wasn't JAMMA it's probably a bootleg. This is one game I've seen more bootlegs for than any other game!
There are 2 versions of the Slap Fight PCB; one is a proprietary Toaplan connector. The other is JAMMA, and yes, there is a JAMMA version of Slap Fight. I got my PCB verified by Joe, the director of the Toaplan documentary, and believe me, he knows everything about Toaplan's boards. It's 100% real.
User avatar
Sumez
Posts: 8019
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Denmarku
Contact:

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Sumez »

Damn, I was originally gonna ask if there's actually a JAMMA version of the game, but it just came across facetious. I really had no idea. Every non-BL PCB I've seen has been a proprietary pre-jamma connector.
Steven
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 5:24 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Steven »

Yeah, from what I understand Slap Fight was made during the time period when the relatively new JAMMA connector was in the process of being adopted, so there are 2 versions, one with the proprietary Toaplan connector and the JAMMA one. Tiger-Heli runs on the same PCB, so I believe there is also a JAMMA Tiger-Heli, but I don't really remember. As to why they didn't just make the JAMMA one and also had the proprietary connector, I don't know. I saw a JAMMA Alcon on ebay recently, and it, like the JAMMA Slap Fight, is on a blue PCB, unlike the green Toaplan one.

Unfortunately the JAMMA harness on my Astro has absolutely no markings that help me identify which direction is up and which is down and seems to lack anything to prevent me from connecting it the wrong way, so I have no idea which way is proper as of right now, so I can't play it until I figure out which orientation is correct.
User avatar
Sumez
Posts: 8019
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Denmarku
Contact:

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Sumez »

Steven wrote: Unfortunately the JAMMA harness on my Astro has absolutely no markings that help me identify which direction is up and which is down and seems to lack anything to prevent me from connecting it the wrong way, so I have no idea which way is proper as of right now, so I can't play it until I figure out which orientation is correct.
You should mark the "key" where the gap on the edge connector is supposed to go. :)
It's pretty easy to see which side is up or down though - or rather, which side is left or right, since only one side has the voltage connections. Also pin 7 won't be connected on the cab connector, but pin 22 definitely will.
Steven
Posts: 2874
Joined: Tue May 11, 2021 5:24 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Steven »

Sumez wrote:
Steven wrote: Unfortunately the JAMMA harness on my Astro has absolutely no markings that help me identify which direction is up and which is down and seems to lack anything to prevent me from connecting it the wrong way, so I have no idea which way is proper as of right now, so I can't play it until I figure out which orientation is correct.
You should mark the "key" where the gap on the edge connector is supposed to go. :)
It's pretty easy to see which side is up or down though - or rather, which side is left or right, since only one side has the voltage connections. Also pin 7 won't be connected on the cab connector, but pin 22 definitely will.
Thanks. Fudoh already got it for me, though! Now I need to flip the screen so I'm not playing Slap Fight upside down, though, and the colors on the monitor are... very green, except in the center, which has the proper color. Now I did have to completely disassemble it to get it inside my house, and it was also in the horizontal position when I got it, so I did have to rotate it. What a pain this whole thing has been, but I could play upside-down green Slap Fight right now if I wanted to.
User avatar
Sumez
Posts: 8019
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Denmarku
Contact:

Re: M2 Toaplan collection

Post by Sumez »

There's a connector on the monitor PCB you can move over a bit to flip the image 180 degrees without needing to rotate the monitor itself. - That said, I'm 90% certain Slap Fight already has a dip-switch setting that flips the screen for you, which is much easier to do. Most older arcade games, vertical ones especially, do.
Post Reply