Capcom Arcade Stadium 2 Announced (GunSmoke, ECO Fighters)

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Creamy Goodness
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Creamy Goodness »

For someone really familiar with Progear does it seem like the default difficulty for the Arcade Stadium is set kind of high? Was playing it on Final Burn where I was doing alright then moved over to Arcade Stadium and got absolutely mauled. Both instances I was playing the US version with everything being default.
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m.sniffles.esq
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by m.sniffles.esq »


For someone really familiar with Progear does it seem like the default difficulty for the Arcade Stadium is set kind of high? Was playing it on Final Burn where I was doing alright then moved over to Arcade Stadium and got absolutely mauled. Both instances I was playing the US version with everything being default.


Suddenly I feel better...
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Jeneki
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Jeneki »

This release of Progear uses different difficulty settings than most people are used to. For example, the US version defaults to 4 instead of 2.
Typos caused by cat on keyboard.
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Yoshinoya
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Yoshinoya »

Difficulty 4 is standard on Japanese Arcades, 2 for US/EU (^ w ^ )/
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by velo »

SPM wrote:I need to share this!! hahahaha (I love the game, go buy it! The leaderboards need you. Only 3 people looped the game on Switch, and no one on Steam I think)

Image
Is there a reliable strat for that part? I try to hang in the middle like that then go to the bottom but it feels like luck's a big factor.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Jeneki wrote:This release of Progear uses different difficulty settings than most people are used to. For example, the US version defaults to 4 instead of 2.
Yoshinoya wrote:Difficulty 4 is standard on Japanese Arcades, 2 for US/EU (^ w ^ )/
If the US version is set to 4, it sounds like it's an oversight with how the defaults are configured on this release. As mentioned earlier in this thread, on CPS-2 arcade games, the Japanese version is generally set at 4 and the US version set at 2. For Giga Wing, the difficulty slider doesn't appear to do much if anything, but in Progear, the difficulty slider has a tremendous impact on bullet speeds.

In both Giga Wing and Progear, it appears the difficulty is configured so that the 2 in the US version is close or fairly equivalent to the 4 in the Japanese version (especially if you're scoring well and the game rank cranks up, I can't tell much of a difference if there is one). I suspect it's so that the US version can be cranked up higher overall (+6 compared to +4 in the JP ver). If this release defaults the US version to difficulty 4, then it's actually +2 harder than the JP ver! No wonder it's harder on the "defaults" on this compilation.
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SPM
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by SPM »

velo wrote:
SPM wrote:I need to share this!! hahahaha (I love the game, go buy it! The leaderboards need you. Only 3 people looped the game on Switch, and no one on Steam I think)

Image
Is there a reliable strat for that part? I try to hang in the middle like that then go to the bottom but it feels like luck's a big factor.
Yeah, go to the middle ASAP and try to dodge any ball in that area or get to the bottom/top if it gets too dangerous in the middle (reaching this point with extra speed helps, I usually prefer staying at level 1 though). Then go for the secret passage (through the wall haha). It's really consistent once you get the hang of it. I rarely die there anymore, but RNG and glitches are watching, don't get too comfortable XD.

Here's a 2-loops run I recorded if it helps. (I got a copyright claim from Capcom for that video LOL, hopefully it gets sorted out)

And a top spot! :mrgreen: Even though the only reason for it is that almost nobody's playing hahaha
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Leandro
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Leandro »

SPM wrote: And a top spot! :mrgreen: Even though the only reason for it is that almost nobody's playing hahaha
Congrats man! Don't play down your achievement... The top 10 scores on the Steam version are much lower than on yours.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Sima Tuna »

I like that your dude can teabag the ground at will.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by BulletMagnet »

Sima Tuna wrote:I like that your dude can teabag the ground at will.
Truly a game decades ahead of its time.
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jehu
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by jehu »

Any chance anyone's done an input lag test on the Switch version of Giga Wing since the updates? I know before it was laggy as all hell, but it doesn't feel so bad now. I think it might be right around Dreamcast levels of lag, if not even a bit better. Anyone know?
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by bigbadboaz »

People already commented about Switch improvements earlier in the thread. I'm still waiting on any confirmation of something similar on PS4, but it doesn't seem like they're bothering to patch what ought to be the sharpest platform.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Jonpachi »

bigbadboaz wrote:People already commented about Switch improvements earlier in the thread. I'm still waiting on any confirmation of something similar on PS4, but it doesn't seem like they're bothering to patch what ought to be the sharpest platform.
Again, just catering to the Japanese market. Nobody gaf about PS4 anymore.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by bigbadboaz »

Well, they did go ahead and release the entire thing. Doesn't seem like standard support is too much to ask for.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Sima Tuna »

Does anyone know what the input lag for the beat em ups in this collection is like? Because I was playing Final Fight. Maybe I should say, trying to play. I was trying to play Final Fight on switch, and it seemed to me that the desperation move just wouldn't come out. I'd be on the ground, fucking hammering the desperation move, and unless I had my finger flying as fast as possible on the button, I wouldn't get a desperation move in time to preempt being combo'd for a touch of death by the enemies waiting for me to wake up. But I seem to recall being able to interrupt with desperation moves fairly reliably in other versions of this game that I played, both while waking up and during enemy combos. I can't tell if it's me or a game issue.

Final Fight is a hard enough game without the desperation move being 50/50 on coming out in time or not.
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Rastan78
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Rastan78 »

I haven't played Final Fight on CAS. But I can say it feels great on the Beat em Up Bundle. It's responsive. The autofire setting works well and if IIRC you can map A+B desperation move to a single button. If you're going to play a lot of Final Fight on Switch I might recommend that version, especially if you can get it on sale. Also the menus are quick and intuitive to get through without all the extra fluff, visual noise and on screen button prompts of the Arcade Stadium GUI.
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BIL
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by BIL »

Yeah, I don't know of any reliable input data, but I'm pretty happy with FF on the Belt Action Collection (PS4 in my case). It can keep up with ShmupMAME (1f) during infinites, good enough for me.

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I remember hearing that, even on PCB, it's more reliable to hold [jump] and feather [attack], rather than the other way around, while going for emergency bombs in FF. I think it was in one of the more recent OT beater threads. But yeah, I just map 'em to a button, Extra Joy-style.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

But yeah, I just map 'em to a button, Extra Joy-style.
This is the way to do it.

There's some games where the desperation move mapped to Button 1 + 2 has strict timing and can't be done by holding one then pressing the other, which makes it really, really helpful to simply map a third button to do it (lookin' at you Konami >:( ).
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:There's some games where the desperation move mapped to Button 1 + 2 has strict timing
That'd be part of the game's own difficulty though? Nobody uses macros in 3rd Strike and says he's not cheating.
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Rastan78
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Rastan78 »

BTW wasn't it way back in April that they said more games were coming? I guess the paid invincibility DLC was a bigger priority than adding new games.

It seems kind of slimy that they made this announcement just before the game dropped on Steam, PS4 and XBox. As if they wanted to drum up more hype and create the impression that you were buying into a package that would soon receive new games and support, then just dropped it.

Man, I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but I just can't get past it. Paid fucking invincibility God damn DLC. That just sits squarely in the I don't want to support this product on principle category. Even if the games are cheap AF.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

If Streets of Rage can map its specials to a third button, I'm not going to waste a second feeling guilty about doing the same for a 2 button arcade beat 'em up, or worse, a platformer with a dash function where a misread input results in a high jump.

This is the exact same reason rapid fire is an expectation in a modern shmup. Indeed, modern Japanese game centers offer rapid fire buttons on games so as to experience them in the best manner, without the obtuseness of mashing constantly. Suffering with an archaic control scheme vs experiencing the game in the best possible light hardly seems a difficult choice to make.
Nobody uses macros in 3rd Strike and says he's not cheating.
You realize the console ports of 3rd Strike and other fighting games let you map specific buttons that press two buttons at the same time automatically, right?
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Rastan78
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Rastan78 »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:
BareKnuckleRoo wrote:There's some games where the desperation move mapped to Button 1 + 2 has strict timing
That'd be part of the game's own difficulty though? Nobody uses macros in 3rd Strike and says he's not cheating.
I think these types of buttons combos which are easily wired up on a cab, were allowed for scoring competition in Gamest and Arcadia along with autofire in a game like Final Fight. Same with vs fighting games if they were played single player for score. (An often overlooked category of score based play that can be pretty interesting actually.) Not to mention they're often part of the default control scheme. Like left shoulder and trigger being PPP and KKK.

For vs fighting its pretty common for mapping multiple button presses to one button to be ok in tournaments etc, but autofire or input macros are clearly cheating. Of course different tournaments and formats are gonna have their own rule sets.

Edit: Another one that comes to mind is Ikaruga. Pretty sure the Naomi version, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't have a third button. So it would be common to wire up this button on an arcade cab to reduce missed inputs when hitting A+B to release the lasers. Doesn't exactly take an electrical engineer to rig up the third button. Of course all the console versions include that option, and there's no shame in taking advantage of it on any format.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Yeah, it's very easy on an arcade cab to take the wires for button 1 and button 2, splice them together, and wire them to a third button that presses both at the same time when pressed. There's no reason to regard something that's a basic quality of life improvement like this as akin to cheating.

By comparison, places like MARP actively view both autofire (external and enabling it in games that have it as an option like Dodonpachi) as well as mapping multiple inputs to the same button (creating a third button that pushes button 1 and 2 together) as cheating:
b) Autofire is not permitted.

c) At Marp, it is not permitted to use more than one key or button in MAME for the same arcade machine button simultaneously.
The standard should be set by people who are playing these games in actual arcades, and are doing so at a high level of play. Places like MARP and Twin Galaxies that eschew quality of life improvements in the name of faux-nostalgia whilst pretending to be hardcore are not role models for how to best enjoy these games and keep interest in these games alive.
Rastan78 wrote:Another one that comes to mind is Ikaruga. Pretty sure the Naomi version, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't have a third button.
This sounds right; I think most people's experience with the game is the console ports that have a homing laser dedicated button, and don't realize that originally it was a 2 button game where you had to press both shot + polarity change to use the homing laser. Obviously having a third button for this is a major improvement because an accidental polarity change at a bad time would really suck!
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BIL
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by BIL »

For games that are just asininely strict, like same-frame multi-presses or else, that's a design decision I'm happy to undo. I'd never play FC Double Dragon II with autofire, which guarantees its knee bazooka in a way I find boring. But I'd definitely play with an A+B button, either via software or physical controller mod, if it were overly picky about both buttons registering on the exact same frame. That's just annoying. (DD2 doesn't care, as long as both buttons are hit at some point during the attack's input window)

ImageFight's Pod Shoot input is another I go around every time, either via MAME or Arcade Archives' mapping options. I wouldn't mind if you could hold [fire] and press [speed] for it, but instead you're expected to mash both repeatedly. Whether IREM were sticking to two-button spec or not (I wonder, given the same year's Ninja Spirit sprang for the full three JAMMA buttons), it feels chintzy and unreliable. I'm supposed to be piloting an unfathomably sophisticated fightercraft, not mashing potatoes. And even adding a third button, you're still unable to fire or change speed while executing the Pod Shoot, so it's not like you're breaking anything.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Sima Tuna »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:If Streets of Rage can map its specials to a third button, I'm not going to waste a second feeling guilty about doing the same for a 2 button arcade beat 'em up, or worse, a platformer with a dash function where a misread input results in a high jump.

This is the exact same reason rapid fire is an expectation in a modern shmup. Indeed, modern Japanese game centers offer rapid fire buttons on games so as to experience them in the best manner, without the obtuseness of mashing constantly. Suffering with an archaic control scheme vs experiencing the game in the best possible light hardly seems a difficult choice to make.
Yeah, I think it's completely fair in a PvE game, that the game be medically reasonable to play. I use autofire, I have a button set for superjoy/desperation move, I map the hold fire to its own button in cave games, etc. I'm not going to give myself carpal tunnel to play a video game.

I should clarify that the issue I'm having with Final Fight in the CAS is I'm mashing a dedicated superjoy button while on the ground. And I mean mashing the fuck out of it. But my dude still can't get off a superjoy on wakeup without being stuffed and combo'd to death. So I'm not sure if there's input delay, the timing is extremely strict, or something else is happening. Since there's not really an online community for beat em ups, I figured I'd ask here. It's not as if I can type "help my superjoy isn't coming out in final fight!" into Google and get a billion responses, like you could do with a modern game. :lol:

For contrast, I don't have these issues playing Double Dragon 4, Streets of Rage 4 or Fight 'n' Rage on the same switch system. Of course, DD4 doesn't have superjoy, but it has moves that fulfill the same purpose and they work just fine.
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Rastan78
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Rastan78 »

I'm not sure about this without doing some testing, but it may just be a really tight window. SF2 was done by basically the same dev team and the window for doing a reversal uppercut on wakeup is super tight. Most players do piano inputs where you press and release all 3 punch buttons quickly to effectively give 6 chances to hit the window. But it's still hard to do 100 percent consistently even for pros.

You could try holding normal jump and attack (autofire) at the same time and see if that works consistently. I've heard different things about the autofire on CAS being janky though. Not sure whether it's better after patches.
For contrast, I don't have these issues playing Double Dragon 4, Streets of Rage 4 or Fight 'n' Rage on the same switch system. Of course, DD4 doesn't have superjoy, but it has moves that fulfill the same purpose and they work just fine.
Like in vs fighting games inputs buffer windows became more and more lenient as time went on and its much easier to time inputs as a result. I'd imagine something like SoR4 has a pretty forgiving level of input buffering compared to an old school game like FF.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Rastan78 wrote:Man, I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but I just can't get past it. Paid fucking invincibility God damn DLC.
I missed this earlier... and yeah, I don't know how to feel about selling what feels like a training mode feature, even if it is only a dollar. Paying for this won't appeal to the people who are serious about the games, either, so it feels like they're nickel and diming their casual audience rather than just rolling this out as a free update to the basic offerings.
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Rastan78
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Rastan78 »

Luckily retro games have been kind of sheltered from the more shamelessly predatory kind of stuff you see in mobile gaming and AAA stuff. Maybe because the market is just too small? Or maybe they just haven't figured out how to do it yet?

Either way I tend to get paranoid when I see Capcom sort of dipping their toe into that even a little with paid DLC wallpapers and what not. Not that Capcom would ever throw cheap lipstick on a beloved franchise and send her down to the street corner. I trust them completely. Oh wait remember SF x Tekken gems:
Different retailers (Amazon, GameStop, Best Buy) will offer special packs for gems, some of which take two gem slots to use: GameStop's World Warrior Pack, Amazon's Iron Curtain Pack, and Best Buy's Lightning Legs Pack. The Special Edition comes with the King of Iron Fist Pack, and pre-ordering it will get you the Cross Arts Pack. This might be a point of contention, because it might give some players an advantage over other players only due to paying more money.
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m.sniffles.esq
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

I saw the invincibility DLC, but just sort of shrugged it off. I mean, Capcom Stadium is currently my most played Switch game. Between finally having a home version of Forgotten Worlds with somewhat correct control (and this current run solidifying to me that it isn't just an old personal favorite, but a severely underrated title), Strider (which is pretty much the gold standard of it's era of action platformer), and finally a home port of Progear (which is a great, great, great shooter. Just great), it's been getting a lot of action.

And the whole kit and caboodle cost me what? $18-$20? Deathsmiles 1 and 2 just cost me $50 and half of that package is fucking terrible. So, if Capcom wants to nickel and dime a extra dollar for invincibility, let them. It's a gaming bargain even with the extra buck...
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Rastan78
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW, Steam): Progear, Giga Wing,

Post by Rastan78 »

You can't argue with the quality of the games and the fact that it's affordable. To me it's not about the extra buck, but the principal that they're breaking the seal on introducing paid DLC in a retro collection. I thought it was a big turnoff when they went crazy on that stuff in SFV. In game ads, pricey DLC costumes that take forever to unlock with free in game money etc. Not looking for my games to include built in store fronts full of cosmetic items. The only thing that costs extra in a retro compilation should be more games IMO.
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