Capcom Arcade Stadium 2 Announced (GunSmoke, ECO Fighters)

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GFoyle
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by GFoyle »

Some thoughts getting to play a bit more, this time docked with Hori arcade stick.

Huge thumps up for the saves states and rewind features.

I actually like the look of the virtual arcade.

The display options are stupid, I would never use anything but the "Normal". Filters on the other hand are okay, I do like the B one (RGB Pixels) especially for some reason. Screen rotation options are supported which is great.

There aren't many screen size options and the "full" one is just useless. Thumbs down on this one.

Using the normal display option seems to reduce the stuttering/frame skipping or whatever it is, but doesn't take it a way (not sure do the display options affect it, I didn't notice clear difference is I used A or B compared to none) and it's annoying... I guess you can get used it, but I really do hope it get's fixed.

Input lag... I would say it's in the 5-7 frames range depending on game in optimal input lag conditions (so handheld using joycons for example). Meaning it definitely feels to be around the Hamster to Psikyo port territory. Those highly sensitive to input lag issues stay away! For rest, I think these are okay enough. I think the upcoming PS4/XBox/PC releases will be the normal 1-2 frames less than this.

IMO the collection doesn't feel to be cheap money grab at all, even though there are some stupid focus on wrong things. Having the save states, rewind feature already make it miles better than the Psikyo ports, which a lot of people seem to enjoy even with the issues those have.
Firehawke
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Firehawke »

GFoyle wrote: Some thoughts getting to play a bit more, this time docked with Hori arcade stick.
Haven't had time to sit down and try it with my stick. I should. Probably would make some of the games feel better.
GFoyle wrote: Huge thumps up for the saves states and rewind features.
Absolutely. This is one of the things they did do right.
GFoyle wrote: I actually like the look of the virtual arcade.
I like the look, but not the performance. I imagine PS4/XB/PC will be better there.
GFoyle wrote: The display options are stupid, I would never use anything but the "Normal". Filters on the other hand are okay, I do like the B one (RGB Pixels) especially for some reason. Screen rotation options are supported which is great.
There aren't many screen size options and the "full" one is just useless. Thumbs down on this one.
Yeah. They botched the screen layouts a bit. It's the exact same problem Contra/Castlevania have. "Full" is trash and (rare harsh opinion here) anyone using that should feel ashamed; the devs too, for implementing it.
GFoyle wrote: Using the normal display option seems to reduce the stuttering/frame skipping or whatever it is, but doesn't take it a way (not sure do the display options affect it, I didn't notice clear difference is I used A or B compared to none) and it's annoying... I guess you can get used it, but I really do hope it get's fixed.
Yeah, as I said before, I noticed SOME improvement depending on the game. I haven't played with the filters at all. Probably should next time I start it up.
GFoyle wrote: Input lag... I would say it's in the 5-7 frames range depending on game in optimal input lag conditions (so handheld using joycons for example). Meaning it definitely feels to be around the Hamster to Psikyo port territory. Those highly sensitive to input lag issues stay away! For rest, I think these are okay enough. I think the upcoming PS4/XBox/PC releases will be the normal 1-2 frames less than this.
This is probably something that one of the experts on Twitter should be doing testing on. A quick look shows at least one of the games has a chart already. https://twitter.com/pikuri_/status/1362353274049998848
GFoyle wrote: IMO the collection doesn't feel to be cheap money grab at all, even though there are some stupid focus on wrong things. Having the save states, rewind feature already make it miles better than the Psikyo ports, which a lot of people seem to enjoy even with the issues those have.
I'm inclined to agree that it doesn't feel entirely cheap but it does feel rushed and somewhat ill-considered in some areas. I guess the big question ends up being "Will they actually patch this?"

THAT is up in the air, IMO.

Also, if this style of reply is annoying, let me know and I'll stop doing that.
velo
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by velo »

GFoyle wrote: IMO the collection doesn't feel to be cheap money grab at all, even though there are some stupid focus on wrong things.
That almost always seems to be the issue. It's not like e.g. having a proper save state feature requires a big effort that's going affect budgets and timelines, but devs almost always get it wrong anyway. Of course this one gets *that* right but still manages to misdirect the effort in a thousand other ways. How excited is anyone about having a fast forward feature for arcade games? Either I'm very atypical or they just don't seem to get what people actually want.
Rastan78 wrote:I know you really hate the Switch for some reason, but you don't have to look any farther than Capcom's own belt scroll collection to see that it could have been done well.
That one's "ok", I mean at least the games run, but it's still weak on features. Nevertheless you don't exactly need a supercomputer to run e.g. Final Fight properly, it's crazy that we're even talking about emulation quality. Doesn't matter how good the hardware is if the devs throw away all the power on pointless things.
Firehawke wrote:I guess the big question ends up being "Will they actually patch this?"

THAT is up in the air, IMO.
I'd almost be willing to lay money on "no".

I've been playing Ghosts 'n' Goblins on this thing, and once you fix the display options and close all the idiotic tutorial windows it seems... fine? Definitely worth downloading for free. Faint praise but I could name some Switch ports that don't even meet that standard. I'm still annoyed, I thought this would be a day one purchase for me, and now it's more like "maybe when it goes on sale", which by the look of it might not even take long.
Wilsoncqb1911
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Wilsoncqb1911 »

I'm really liking it so far. The games feel responsive and I dont see any issues. I play with all the effects turned off. I'm glad Digital Eclipse wasnt involved because the X Legacy collections are unplayable. I also like all the challenges and neat features in this collection. I mainly got it for Pro Gear and Gigawing so the rest are kind of bonus. I'm happy with it so far.
Firehawke
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Firehawke »

velo wrote:
Firehawke wrote:I guess the big question ends up being "Will they actually patch this?"

THAT is up in the air, IMO.
I'd almost be willing to lay money on "no".

I've been playing Ghosts 'n' Goblins on this thing, and once you fix the display options and close all the idiotic tutorial windows it seems... fine? Definitely worth downloading for free. Faint praise but I could name some Switch ports that don't even meet that standard. I'm still annoyed, I thought this would be a day one purchase for me, and now it's more like "maybe when it goes on sale", which by the look of it might not even take long.
As I said in my first post, depends on the game. Some play better than others with the extra graphics out of the way. I'm definitely a bit disappointed in the quality of the launch.

Since they're talking about this being a "let's try to get everything we can into a compilation" as a long term project, I'm inclined to think patches are entirely possible and expansion packs may continue to happen as well. Note the word 'may'. I'm hoping they'll keep that implicit promise.

I'm going to add that even if they'd announced PS4/XB/PC at the same time, I would have been inclined to go with Switch because of portability plus TV. If I showed you my Switch selection, you'd find about 30 Arcade Archives titles along with other retro compilations. I do buy Switch games (e.g. Mario Odyssey) but I find it to be a really good retro system-- well, where the ports/emulation isn't botched, anyway.
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Rastan78
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Rastan78 »

Ghosts 'n Hoes
Firehawke
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Firehawke »

I'm going to take back one comment right now. I just had the thought that the latency may be the normal pipeline used with RE Engine, which would mean that while the PS4/XB/PC versions may run slightly better, I wouldn't be surprised if they were double-buffering or even using a three or more frame buffer to avoid tearing.

In short, this might be a problem that appears on more powerful platforms too.
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SPM
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by SPM »

velo wrote:How excited is anyone about having a fast forward feature for arcade games? Either I'm very atypical or they just don't seem to get what people actually want.

In some games with autoscroll or too slow paced, I really am. Speeding up the game may fix a bad pacing design, like boring easy sections or dead zones. Thats's one of the features I like in R-Type Dimensions for example. Otherwise R-Type's stages 1-3 are a bit boring after a while (and last stage when done the easy way)
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Wilsoncqb1911
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Wilsoncqb1911 »

Now that I'm playing a game I know well (SF2) I see the frame issues and some audio delay. Input is super responsive imo though. I'll take that but it certainly could be better.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Some-Mist »

yeah the stutter is very apparent in progear, I sank a few runs in today and was getting pretty annoyed.
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velo
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by velo »

Firehawke wrote: Since they're talking about this being a "let's try to get everything we can into a compilation" as a long term project, I'm inclined to think patches are entirely possible and expansion packs may continue to happen as well. Note the word 'may'. I'm hoping they'll keep that implicit promise.
Well, that gives me a tiny shred of hope...
Firehawke wrote: I'm going to add that even if they'd announced PS4/XB/PC at the same time, I would have been inclined to go with Switch because of portability plus TV. If I showed you my Switch selection, you'd find about 30 Arcade Archives titles along with other retro compilations. I do buy Switch games (e.g. Mario Odyssey) but I find it to be a really good retro system-- well, where the ports/emulation isn't botched, anyway.
Same here, sadly retro ports are hit-and-miss. I was so sure Capcom wouldn't go all-out on features only to botch the basics, but here we are.

After playing some more GnG, it looks like it's the hilariously unfair final western revision. iirc other ports (e.g. PS3) used an older one or a translation or the final Japanese revision or something... anyway, unless GnG is too easy for you, might want to switch to the Japanese rom.
GFoyle
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by GFoyle »

SPM wrote:
velo wrote:How excited is anyone about having a fast forward feature for arcade games? Either I'm very atypical or they just don't seem to get what people actually want.

In some games with autoscroll or too slow paced, I really am. Speeding up the game may fix a bad pacing design, like boring easy sections or dead zones. Thats's one of the features I like in R-Type Dimensions for example. Otherwise R-Type's stages 1-3 are a bit boring after a while (and last stage when done the easy way)
I agree, fast forward is one of those nice to have features that can be useful in some cases.

As for tje rewind feature, that's really fun in shmups as it gives very fun way to try out different strats super fast, without need to create tons of save points for every small segment. Yesterday I used it to try to see thru the first loop of Progear without credit feeding, which was also fun alternative way to get familiar with the game. I'm loving it and that's something I hope also M2 would start to include in similar way in future.
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Marc
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Marc »

Ah, who am I kidding, I bought it anyways just like I knew I would.
I can see what they were aiming for with the front-end. With the constant pop-ups for challenges etc, it's quite obviously designed to draw in a bunch of people that may otherwise find a bare-bones compilation too intimidating. That they've done so at the expense of performance is infuriating of course, and hopefully they'll patch - I'd guess that depends on whether they intend to sell any more packs as DLC.

I put a little time in on Giga Wing and GnG. So the scaled 'arcade' option runs Giga Wing full-screen, but relegates GnG to a square window with borders. WTF? At least the filters are all pretty decent, there should be a way to get the game looking like you'd want it to here.

GnG runs absolutely fine as far as I can tell - no deaths that I can attribute to the controls. Giga Wing feels exactly the same as it did on the Capcom Home Arcade box I had - that is to say I'm sure perfectionists will fault it, but for me personally it feels pretty good. I'm not getting the -'ice-skating' feel that I've had on the worst of the Psikyo ports for example. Had a quick game of Final Fight, didn't feel any different than the belt-scroller comp, and the screen options are better.

All in all, it's pretty decent for the price, I can definitely see where high-level players might be pissed depending on the game, but there's nothing here a patch can't sort. Fingers crossed.
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spmbx
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by spmbx »

Marc wrote:That they've done so at the expense of performance is infuriating of course


GnG runs absolutely fine as far as I can tell
...
Giga Wing feels exactly the same as it did on the Capcom Home Arcade box I had - that is to say I'm sure perfectionists will fault it, but for me personally it feels pretty good.
...
Final Fight, didn't feel any different than the belt-scroller comp, and the screen options are better.
You make it sound like the games you tried run perfectly fine, yet your intro talks about that it's infuriating that the performance is bad. I'm not critisizing your post, i just really wonder what performance issues you ran into since you make it sound like you did not have any in the games you tried?
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Marc
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Marc »

spmbx wrote:
Marc wrote:That they've done so at the expense of performance is infuriating of course


GnG runs absolutely fine as far as I can tell
...
Giga Wing feels exactly the same as it did on the Capcom Home Arcade box I had - that is to say I'm sure perfectionists will fault it, but for me personally it feels pretty good.
...
Final Fight, didn't feel any different than the belt-scroller comp, and the screen options are better.
You make it sound like the games you tried run perfectly fine, yet your intro talks about that it's infuriating that the performance is bad. I'm not critisizing your post, i just really wonder what performance issues you ran into since you make it sound like you did not have any in the games you tried?
GnG ran perfectly as far as I can tell. Giga Wing, if you put me on the spot, there's probably lag. Not enough to affect me, but I'm not playing at the sort of level where it matters particularly. I can't say that it wouldn't, for instance, infuriate BKR (I think it was you, right?), during a no-reflect run. Bear in mind, the only titles I've ever experienced lag on are the Psikyo ports. I hear people above talking about lag on the ACA titles, and I'm a bit 'really, WTF?'. At the same time, stutter of any sort is unacceptable. I spotted a very tiny instance on GW last night, only on the one occasion, but that's not good, and others that have played more than me seem to indicate it can be a bit more frequent than that.

It all seems fine from the hour I spent overall, but I'm not about to discount anybody else's experiences with it. I didn't for instance, try ProGear, which appears to be one of the worst affected. I just find it a shame that the problems exist full stop. As someone above pointed out, even the Switch has enough hardware to run these titles without any sort of compromise.

I guess it depends purely on how much of a stickler you are.
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velo
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by velo »

GFoyle wrote:
SPM wrote:
velo wrote:How excited is anyone about having a fast forward feature for arcade games? Either I'm very atypical or they just don't seem to get what people actually want.

In some games with autoscroll or too slow paced, I really am. Speeding up the game may fix a bad pacing design, like boring easy sections or dead zones. Thats's one of the features I like in R-Type Dimensions for example. Otherwise R-Type's stages 1-3 are a bit boring after a while (and last stage when done the easy way)
I agree, fast forward is one of those nice to have features that can be useful in some cases.
At first I didn't realize you could configure a fast forward button, I only saw that you could toggle through various speeds. So you guys are right. Rewind is very cool and I'm happy to see it in more and more releases. And they actually let you *turn if off* entirely, which I don't think e.g. the SNK collection does.
Marc wrote:I didn't for instance, try ProGear, which appears to be one of the worst affected.
The biggest games here for me are the two GnG games and ProGear, and I already got one of those for free. If somebody could tell me that ProGear actually runs great with this or that setting I'd feel much better when I inevitably cave in and drop my money on this. :(

I'm still bitter about the Psikyo ports. I don't think I'd play them on Switch even if I got them for free, and unfortunately, I didn't.
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BIL
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by BIL »

velo wrote:And they actually let you *turn if off* entirely, which I don't think e.g. the SNK collection does.
While I'm not thrilled with the reports so far, I'm happy to hear this.

Indeed, you can't disable rewind in SNK40th. I put it on L3, the button I'm least likely to bump, and frankly I forget about it pretty quickly... but it's irksome that you can't just ditch the thing for competitive runs.

Then again, I'm pretty sure Rewind is meant to make up for the controls randomly freezing across all games. Quality! :lol:
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Marc wrote:I can't say that it wouldn't, for instance, infuriate BKR (I think it was you, right?), during a no-reflect run.
I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED

I like it when a game has minimal input lag for sure, but unless it's like, Guardian Force level input lag, I think it's usually manageable. Giga Wing is a forgiving enough game that unless you're going for world record tier scoring, or unless they're up to something ridiculous like 8 frames of input lag (3 is reasonably manageable, 4-5 is pushing it, 6-8 is bad) which I seriously doubt, then I'm sure Giga Wing plays fine.

Giga Wing's always been a game that MAME emulates very, very well, so if there was a game on this collection I would assume they're also emulating competently it'd be Giga Wing. Haven't played it myself on this collection but it's a safe bet it's probably fine.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by davyK »

It seems the rewind feature is auto-disabled in the score attack mode (which integrates with leaderboards).

Not sure it can be disabled in normal play though? Doesn't matter as long as it is in score attack.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:Giga Wing's always been a game that MAME emulates very, very well
Do you have the PCB?
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I do indeed have a copy of the PCB, a Japanese version CPS-2 from Tops.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by BrianC »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:I do indeed have a copy of the PCB, a Japanese version CPS-2 from Tops.
I didn't know they made trading cards of arcade PCBs. ;)
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by ATTRACTS »

velo wrote: The biggest games here for me are the two GnG games and ProGear, and I already got one of those for free. If somebody could tell me that ProGear actually runs great with this or that setting I'd feel much better when I inevitably cave in and drop my money on this. :(

I'm still bitter about the Psikyo ports. I don't think I'd play them on Switch even if I got them for free, and unfortunately, I didn't.
Progear and GigaWing run like dogshit. Anyone who says otherwise is either really not concerned with playing well or they are attempting to justify the $$ they just threw in the garbage. Laggy, framerate drops everywhere and odd scrolling issues all over both of them. Save your money.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by velo »

BIL wrote: Indeed, you can't disable rewind in SNK40th. I put it on L3, the button I'm least likely to bump, and frankly I forget about it pretty quickly... but it's irksome that you can't just ditch the thing for competitive runs.
I think you can map it to an analog stick button press, pretty hard to do that by accident.
davyK wrote:It seems the rewind feature is auto-disabled in the score attack mode (which integrates with leaderboards).

Not sure it can be disabled in normal play though? Doesn't matter as long as it is in score attack.
You can unmap buttons from the controller by pushing ZL. Actually it warns you if you don't assign any buttons to changing the game speed!
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by BrianC »

I actually found rewind to be a welcome feature in the Turrican collection. There are areas where you can get stuck in the first Turrican and are usually forced to reset.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

Too bad Hyper Dyne Sidearms (circa 1986) wasn't included in this Capcom Arcade Stadium collection as both JPN & USA versions are a bit different in terms of default scores to earn extra lives, etc. Or even Capcom's Area 88 stg title for that matter.

I've noticed the screen orientation choices for 1943 are a bit lacking, especially with the tate option for Normal (which should be at the very least, be the same screen size as that of 19XX in Normal-sized tate mode) but is presented in a smaller tate screen format than usual.

If one does buy all three CAS packs in one shot, he or she'll save $5.00 right off the bat easily.

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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by kid aphex »

So, do these frame skipping/lag issues occur when the games are running without filters/3D arcade cabinet models?
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by ATTRACTS »

kid aphex wrote:So, do these frame skipping/lag issues occur when the games are running without filters/3D arcade cabinet models?
Yes.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by BrianC »

Wilsoncqb1911 wrote:I'm glad Digital Eclipse wasnt involved because the X Legacy collections are unplayable.
Digital Eclipse wasn't involved with those (they were only involved with the first non-X legacy collection). AFAIK, it was done by Capcom with M2 doing the X-Challenge. Oddly enough, the horrible lag in MMX1 is on ALL platforms.
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Re: Capcom Arcade Stadium (NSW eshop): Progear, Giga Wing, 1

Post by Firehawke »

ATTRACTS wrote:
kid aphex wrote:So, do these frame skipping/lag issues occur when the games are running without filters/3D arcade cabinet models?
Yes.
Yes, but in lesser quantity. It definitely seems more stable turning off the effects, but I can't say I'd recommend picking it up in the current state. I'd wait and see if they fix it.
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