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 Post subject: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:05 am 



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Hey guys!

Has anyone else here ever tried out the Vasara games, I recently picked up the Vasara collection on my ps vita as I noticed the game I played on the device the most was actually the fast striker port which I actually really enjoy. So I decided to see if there was any other vertical shooters available for the system and I can across the Vasara collection.

First of all I want to say that I think both the games are really awesome and unique and I do enjoy the art and the whole theme of the game quite a bit. Really though, these games just seem so unbelievably difficult and I can't even really understand why, I will say however I am by no means an expert at vertical shooters; usually I would say I am not too bad at them though. With Vasara however I swear on normal difficulty I am still using upwards of three continues on the third stage... Maybe there is something about the game I just don't understand, the melee attack I find difficult to time since it's really slow to charge, the bullet patterns are very fast and sporadic. Not to mention the character sprite is quite large and on the small screen of the vita it can be very challenging to tell where the players hitbox is.

The original games are 20 years old so I suppose it doesn't really matter what I say but I really do wish this game had the typical charge shot which slows down the players movement speed and shows the hitbox (like touhou project games and others) as this would be invaluable in this game.

What do you guys think of Vasara? I know the vita definitely isn't the most ideal place to play the game but I am able to play fast striker on the system with no issues and sometimes I perform better on the system than I do on the PS4!


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:30 pm 


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I've precious little experience with the series via MAME, but I SO find it admirable how such late-to-the-party releases keep getting to see daylight.
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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:53 pm 


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The series is something of a personal favorite, in large part due to the ridiculous theme, but yeah, they're certainly not cake walks; I think part of it is how you're constantly encouraged to move in close and risk getting point-blanked juuust before you can get a melee attack out, though the fact that colliding with the enemies themselves doesn't kill you helps a bit. A "visible hitbox" option and other such accoutrements would be nice (I wouldn't mind the ability to change the bullet color, myself), but I guess we'll have to hope M2 eventually has a go at it for that sort of thing to happen, heh.
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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:50 am 


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I'm quite fond of both games in this series.

For the first game, I usually take the spear guy and go defensive. His extra range is very helpful for dealing damage while deflecting. Once you get a good flow of how to fire them off back-to-back it makes survival more doable. The mid-boss / boss enemies don't vary when they use their instant-death melee attacks, so pay attention and remember when they come out, and move into a corner (I usually go lower right) when you know it's coming.

The staff chick seems to be best for scoring, as you can cover so much of the screen setting up gigantic combos. It feels awesome when it works, but of course it's risky.

It's also worth noting that the original Vasara 1 is a two-button game; the home version adds a third button to activate the vasara attack instead of using it automatically when you melee with a full meter. This has a pretty big impact as you can save it for important sections. The home version defaults to the extra button on, but if you want to compare to people playing on arcade it should probably be turned off (it's in the options).

For the second game, I play it mostly as a survival game. Scoring doesn't click for me at all here, as the full-stage counter feels like such a huge step down from Vasara 1 combos. It removes all of the awesome risk/reward from the first game. But survival alone is quite enjoyable for me.
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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:47 pm 


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Both games are really awesome thanks to how exciting the simple sword slashing feels like. The cycle of tension and release that happens every time we charge the sword to unleash its devastating potential always does a great job at making every swing feel powerful and useful. The absolutely over-the-top sound effect that go alongside said sword swings is beautifully visceral, I love it. And this is something that a lot of games can benefit from : making the basic actions we perform the most very rewarding on an audiovisual level.

The games are both rather tough from my experience because the level-design takes your bullet cancelling abilities into account so even such a powerful tool doesn't look like it breaks the game. You have to use it to survive and even then you have to make sure not to bump into enemies and aim your melee attacks correctly to take out as many enemies and bullets as possible. Bosses also require you to learn the timings for the sword attacks and they are not always easy. In my case I can make it to stage 3 in both games but that's where my runs tend to die for now. But even then I am still enjoying my time wit both games.

If i had to choose my favorite, I'll go with 2. Vasara 1 is good as well but the way the special attack works is more restrictive : you fill the gauge once and then the next charged attack will automatically be a Vasara attack (at least in the arcade settings, that can be changed in the new port as said above). I prefer how 2 lets you stock up 3 special attacks which you can use whenever you want. Also, when playing as the blonde girl in Vasara 1, the first stage is a bit too long, whereas the pacing in 2 feels much better and since the stage order doesn't seem to be influenced by the character choice, I can play as Momochi (the redhead girl) without worrying about a later stage being put first.

The games are really good and I wish I played them more. I am very glad to have discovered them though the port because they are super fun, but the lack of keyboard rebinding in it (+garbage default controls) is really hampering my desire to play the two games on it instead of MAME.
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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:53 pm 


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Vasara is a neat game and gives me a very Giga Wing style vibe with how the flow of the game feels. The more recent port looks cool, but unfortunately does not support in-game control remapping apparently, which is a major annoyance (and one you can remap using Steam's built-in but admittedly clunky interface).
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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:24 am 


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Probably worth mentioning here that the Switch Vasara Colellection is currently on sale in the US eShop for $0.99, until September 28. Lowest price ever on the eshop, and I mean... it's a dollar for both games. No brainer.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:03 pm 


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hamfighterx wrote:
Probably worth mentioning here that the Switch Vasara Colellection is currently on sale in the US eShop for $0.99, until September 28. Lowest price ever on the eshop, and I mean... it's a dollar for both games. No brainer.


Pretty sure I paid about that a couple of months ago, it seems to go on super-sale fairly often. Not a bad tactic, because at least it gets into people's hands to talk about.

I thought the games were okay, but with the similar Sengoku series on the same system they kind of got sidelined. I might get more into them later, though I do wish they'd gone with the flying person genre, rather than the large flying sleds which don't really add much and make you a big target in these pretty tough games.

I will say, having 4 player mode in Infinite is very cool, that mode makes this absolutely worth picking up on its own.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:28 am 


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Looks like you're right and the $0.99 price matches a previous low that they've offered a few other times in 2020, according to the price charts from the very reliable Dekudeals (FWIW, a far better way to search the eShop than through the Switch itself): https://www.dekudeals.com/items/vasara-collection

Point remains though... at 99 cents, should be an instant buy for anyone with a Switch and the slightest interest in this type of game.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:30 pm 


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M.Knight wrote:
Both games are really awesome thanks to how exciting the simple sword slashing feels like. The cycle of tension and release that happens every time we charge the sword to unleash its devastating potential always does a great job at making every swing feel powerful and useful. The absolutely over-the-top sound effect that go alongside said sword swings is beautifully visceral, I love it. And this is something that a lot of games can benefit from : making the basic actions we perform the most very rewarding on an audiovisual level.

I wouldn't realise how brilliant Onimusha series is in that respect 'till I read this review about making Spartan: Total Warrior. Pretty interesting read if you are into PS2-gen console games. S:TW, I think, was a tough sell without presenting just how it all runs on actual hardware of destination. Kind of like Black. I don't know about any later-gen titles that would quite attempt following those two. Vanquish, maybe Split/Second and Blur would count but - 30 fps on consoles (I don't think Black runs at any more, though).
Speaking of Vanquish - that's another example of jolly rewarding basic action... and another tough sell as it turned out.

P.S. Fixed link, it now leads to the part of interview regarding Onimusha.
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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:45 pm 


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hamfighterx wrote:
Looks like you're right and the $0.99 price matches a previous low that they've offered a few other times in 2020, according to the price charts from the very reliable Dekudeals (FWIW, a far better way to search the eShop than through the Switch itself): https://www.dekudeals.com/items/vasara-collection

Point remains though... at 99 cents, should be an instant buy for anyone with a Switch and the slightest interest in this type of game.


Oh sure, I wasn't trying to start a debate or anything. And yes, it's pretty hard not to get 99 cents worth of entertainment out of these games. Heck, just play them 5 times and you're winning.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:44 pm 


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I bought the Vasara Collection for Steam first and really liked it, so double dipped when it went on sale in the eShop the last time it was 99 cents for the portability.

Now I know the Switch gets a lot of flack for the input lag on some of their ports, but I haven't come across too many that were terrible, even the Psikyo games are "playable". However, the Vasara Collection seems to be one of the worst offenders when it comes to this. Meanwhile the PC version has no noticeable input lag at all. The Switch port is still worth 99 cents, but I just wanted to give everyone a heads up that if the portability of the Switch isn't a must for them then I recommend the PC version on Steam, as it goes on sale sometimes as well.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:24 pm 


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BloodHawk wrote:
Meanwhile the PC version has no noticeable input lag at all.

From my times of sampling shmup after shmup on MAME, I remember both Vasare games to be super-nicely emulated indeed. Whatever emulator Steam release puts to use, I'd expect it to be at least competitive at this point.

How's MAME on Switch anyway? I've really been out of touch with such news for years.
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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:18 am 


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BloodHawk wrote:
I bought the Vasara Collection for Steam first and really liked it, so double dipped when it went on sale in the eShop the last time it was 99 cents for the portability.

Now I know the Switch gets a lot of flack for the input lag on some of their ports, but I haven't come across too many that were terrible, even the Psikyo games are "playable". However, the Vasara Collection seems to be one of the worst offenders when it comes to this. Meanwhile the PC version has no noticeable input lag at all. The Switch port is still worth 99 cents, but I just wanted to give everyone a heads up that if the portability of the Switch isn't a must for them then I recommend the PC version on Steam, as it goes on sale sometimes as well.


For what it's worth, Mark MSX, the guy who did those Psikyo Switch lag tests, got 6 frames on Gunbird 2 (Shmup Junkie on Youtube tested it compared to the Dreamcast version & got the exact same results, 6 frames for both DC & Switch). According to Mark's personal rubric that he shared in one of his videos, 4 frames is at the edge of what he finds acceptable, 3 frames is alright, and 2 is about as good as it can get.

So keep in mind when people are getting dramatic about the ports being "unplayable," in this context, they're talking about a margin of 2 frames. Which amounts to 0.03 of a second. Given that pretty much the absolute limit of human visual perception is 0.013, we are talking about a difference that very few humans can even perceive. By all means, there's no reason people shouldn't go for the best version if platform's not a consideration, but the people terming them unplayable are using pretty dubious reasoning.

That being said, I'm actually all for reviewers calling this stuff out. I think holding porting houses to account for attention to detail is performing a great service, and ensuring a respect for the art form.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:11 am 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:
So keep in mind when people are getting dramatic about the ports being "unplayable," in this context, they're talking about a margin of 2 frames. Which amounts to 0.03 of a second. Given that pretty much the absolute limit of human visual perception is 0.013, we are talking about a difference that very few humans can even perceive. By all means, there's no reason people shouldn't go for the best version if platform's not a consideration, but the people terming them unplayable are using pretty dubious reasoning.

That's what makes input lag so devious. It doesn't require you to perceive it to have an effect on your game.
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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:11 am 


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Considering how choppy the 3D intro played on switch, I would not be surprised if the switch version of Vasara was a rush job.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:32 am 


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I like the Vasaras. Bullet-cancellers that know to up the intensity in response to the player's tools. The sheer sense of violence when busting open mechs and tanks with your blade is remarkable in itself. Great sound effects and voice acting, some of those guttural screams and kiais are nuts. Samurai Shodown II feels. I do think the ships could've been a bit nimbler - even the "fast" ones are only average by Raizing/Psikyo standard - but it's no big deal.

The PS4 collection feels acceptably responsive to me, though I've only 1CCd up to the games' respective final stages. I went looking for English/Japanese commentary before picking it up, couldn't seem to find much discussion either way... always handy when accomplished players weigh in, like Trigon's world autofire record holder endorsing its recent ACA version.

Sengoku Strider wrote:
So keep in mind when people are getting dramatic about the ports being "unplayable," in this context, they're talking about a margin of 2 frames. Which amounts to 0.03 of a second. Given that pretty much the absolute limit of human visual perception is 0.013, we are talking about a difference that very few humans can even perceive. By all means, there's no reason people shouldn't go for the best version if platform's not a consideration, but the people terming them unplayable are using pretty dubious reasoning.


The way I've heard it explained, in a Hardware forum post I can't find just now: since input lag is a gap between a button press and the expected onscreen result, the minuscule increments of time are more perceptible than they might be in tests of pure reaction speed.

Personally, with the one noticeably laggy game I've got on my PS4 - Metal Slug XX - it's more of a tactile thing. The characters have an unpleasant weight/drag to them, making the very first midboss's RNG mortars demanding in a way their MVS equivalents aren't. Firing up ACA MS1-5 feels like ditching a weighted training vest. I'm hoping a dedicated gaming monitor will sharpen it up, compared to my grandma's Maury TV, but with a mountain of stuff that handles perfectly as-is, I'm in no rush.

Not disputing your point about even laggy games being theoretically playable, just mentioning WRT frame measuring.

I also have to wonder about some of the numbers reported by amateur frame counters. Capcom Belt Action Collection's Final Fight supposedly has eight frames of input lag, according to one online source. I'm not feeling it, in any of its games. Powered Gear's movement feels exactly like its CPS2 board and ShmupMAME: a little floaty.

OTOH, the Kunio World Classics Collection's Double Dragon II definitely doesn't respond as sharply as my NES/FC carts, or decent PC emulators. Ended up deleting that one. It's a bit of a minefield out there, sadly.
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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:10 am 



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Quote:
The series is something of a personal favorite, in large part due to the ridiculous theme, but yeah, they're certainly not cake walks


Couldn't agree more really, theme is kinda wacky and as much as i find the hitbox frustrating in these games, i think that samurais on jet bikes smacking giant mechs quite awesome.

Not sure if anyone else bought the vita version but playing a vertical shooter in TATE mode on the vita was pretty awesome. not sure if any other games on the system offer this but its a unique experience and makes it a lot easier to see on the small screen.


Quote:
Personally, with the one noticeably laggy game I've got on my PS4 - Metal Slug XX - it's more of a tactile thing. The characters have an unpleasant weight/drag to them, making the very first midboss's RNG mortars demanding in a way their MVS equivalents aren't.


I have actually been playing through MSXX this past week and i did notice it being very tough to dodge many of the attacks, anyone know how many ms of lag there is on ps4 for this game?


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:39 pm 



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RE input lag, try this program for testing your sensitivity. For me, 1 vs 2 frames is 60~80% discernible while 1 vs 3 frames is obvious every time. Clearly 2 extra frames of lag is significant - but then, some shmups have 5-6 frames of lag on native hardware and people get on with them fine (never mind modern mainstream genre stuff which is much worse). It's more a matter of how a port/setup lives up to your expectations than the objective practical effects - there's always going to be something more important to your performance than a reaction window being 2 frames smaller, but it might ruin the feel in the process.
Sengoku Strider wrote:
Given that pretty much the absolute limit of human visual perception is 0.013

This is misleading: IIRC most people can't process distinct images beyond 75hz-ish. Motion perception is an order of magnitude more sensitive. In any case it's not the eye lag that's the problem, it's the brain lag.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:39 am 


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Leewrigley wrote:
I have actually been playing through MSXX this past week and i did notice it being very tough to dodge many of the attacks, anyone know how many ms of lag there is on ps4 for this game?


I wonder if the "PS4 version" is just a (laggy) PSP emulator running an ISO. :/ Even with the Ikari characters' i-framed command moves, the classically scrimmaging gash/blast is AWOL. Can't do split-second derring-do when said split-second is eaten up by input lag. I get depressed and fire up an MVS Slug instead.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:13 pm 


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BIL wrote:
The way I've heard it explained, in a Hardware forum post I can't find just now: since input lag is a gap between a button press and the expected onscreen result, the minuscule increments of time are more perceptible than they might be in tests of pure reaction speed.

Personally, with the one noticeably laggy game I've got on my PS4 - Metal Slug XX - it's more of a tactile thing. The characters have an unpleasant weight/drag to them, making the very first midboss's RNG mortars demanding in a way their MVS equivalents aren't. Firing up ACA MS1-5 feels like ditching a weighted training vest. I'm hoping a dedicated gaming monitor will sharpen it up, compared to my grandma's Maury TV, but with a mountain of stuff that handles perfectly as-is, I'm in no rush.

Not disputing your point about even laggy games being theoretically playable, just mentioning WRT frame measuring.

I also have to wonder about some of the numbers reported by amateur frame counters. Capcom Belt Action Collection's Final Fight supposedly has eight frames of input lag, according to one online source. I'm not feeling it, in any of its games. Powered Gear's movement feels exactly like its CPS2 board and ShmupMAME: a little floaty.

OTOH, the Kunio World Classics Collection's Double Dragon II definitely doesn't respond as sharply as my NES/FC carts, or decent PC emulators. Ended up deleting that one. It's a bit of a minefield out there, sadly.


That's totally believable. And it's interesting the way you described it, I wouldn't consider myself particularly sensitive to lag, but that may be because I misinterpret the feedback as floaty controls or weighty characters.

Lethe wrote:
This is misleading: IIRC most people can't process distinct images beyond 75hz-ish. Motion perception is an order of magnitude more sensitive. In any case it's not the eye lag that's the problem, it's the brain lag.


Take a look at this article, and tell me what you think. It goes into the topic reasonably thoroughly, and gets into how much latency - within the context of online twitch gaming - seems to be perceptible, and where the cutoff for 'unplayable' seems to be:

https://www.pubnub.com/blog/how-fast-is-realtime-human-perception-and-technology/

300ms < game is unplayable
150ms < game play degraded
100ms < player performance affected
50ms > target performance
13ms > lower detectable limit

I believe 1 frame @ 60 fps = 16ms.

They do note that for non-twitch games - strategy & rpg titles - up to 500ms is tolerable.

BIL wrote:
Leewrigley wrote:
I have actually been playing through MSXX this past week and i did notice it being very tough to dodge many of the attacks, anyone know how many ms of lag there is on ps4 for this game?


I wonder if the "PS4 version" is just a (laggy) PSP emulator running an ISO. :/ Even with the Ikari characters' i-framed command moves, the classically scrimmaging gash/blast is AWOL. Can't do split-second derring-do when said split-second is eaten up by input lag. I get depressed and fire up an MVS Slug instead.

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Now that's more like it. You will die when I say you must die!


Dammit, I think that gif just made me buy a Metal Slug. Among the ACA ones, do I want X or 3?


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:05 am 



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Sengoku Strider wrote:
Take a look at this article, and tell me what you think.

I'm not disagreeing with the 13ms/75hz conclusion (plus it fits my experience of 1 extra lag frame being barely perceptible), I'm just saying that phrasing it as "the upper limits of human visual perception" isn't accurate. It's more like the limit of the brain to interpret what it's seeing.
Nothing to do with input lag, but if conscious perception was the only factor we wouldn't have VR developers pushing for 700+ fps devices to combat motion sickness. And then this study suggests that under the right conditions the flicker fusion rate can be at least 200hz for a display that's almost 2 meters away, or as high as 800hz. It's all circumstantial.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:14 am 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:
Dammit, I think that gif just made me buy a Metal Slug. Among the ACA ones, do I want X or 3?


I'd go with MSX first, then if you really like it, pick up MS3, which is the super-indulgent double album of the trilogy - tons of new content and ideas spread across its branching paths, at the cost of a somewhat less concise runtime. :smile: MS1 remains a great action gaming experience, too. While it's easy by arcade standards (you're usually in the titular Super Vehicle), the rollicking carnage and classic black-comedic aesthetic thoroughly make up for it. Pure entertainment.

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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:07 pm 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:
So keep in mind when people are getting dramatic about the ports being "unplayable," in this context, they're talking about a margin of 2 frames. Which amounts to 0.03 of a second. Given that pretty much the absolute limit of human visual perception is 0.013, we are talking about a difference that very few humans can even perceive. By all means, there's no reason people shouldn't go for the best version if platform's not a consideration, but the people terming them unplayable are using pretty dubious reasoning.


Without taking the thread too off-topic, taking into consideration that every single action is being delayed by that small amount of time I have always felt as though 2 frames is pretty noticeable. Although I agree that 1 or 2 additional frames usually doesn't make a game unplayable (depending on the starting baseline of which those frames are being adding to), in my experience with Vasara between PC and Switch I noticed that the difference is more than just 1 or 2 frames.

By playing other games that are on Mark_MSX's list as baselines for responsiveness and feel, the PC port while using G-Sync feels identical to other games listed as 3 frames, where the Switch feels like other games that are listed around 7. Noticeably worse than the post-patched Psikyo games (I think Mark_MSX's measurements for those were pre-patch but I am not sure).

Studio Mudprints for the Bullet Heaven series did a review of the Vasara collection and noticed this difference as well. I forgot the exact words/phrasing they used, but in their opinion this noticeable increase in input lag combined with the original difficulty of the games themselves made it harder to enjoy on the Switch than other platforms, and having tried it myself I see exactly why they said that.

I don't know about labeling the Switch port "unplayable" but it is definitely borderline, which is why I wouldn't recommend it unless you highly weigh the portability of it in your decision.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:02 pm 


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BloodHawk wrote:
Sengoku Strider wrote:
So keep in mind when people are getting dramatic about the ports being "unplayable," in this context, they're talking about a margin of 2 frames. Which amounts to 0.03 of a second. Given that pretty much the absolute limit of human visual perception is 0.013, we are talking about a difference that very few humans can even perceive. By all means, there's no reason people shouldn't go for the best version if platform's not a consideration, but the people terming them unplayable are using pretty dubious reasoning.


Without taking the thread too off-topic, taking into consideration that every single action is being delayed by that small amount of time I have always felt as though 2 frames is pretty noticeable. Although I agree that 1 or 2 additional frames usually doesn't make a game unplayable (depending on the starting baseline of which those frames are being adding to), in my experience with Vasara between PC and Switch I noticed that the difference is more than just 1 or 2 frames.

By playing other games that are on Mark_MSX's list as baselines for responsiveness and feel, the PC port while using G-Sync feels identical to other games listed as 3 frames, where the Switch feels like other games that are listed around 7. Noticeably worse than the post-patched Psikyo games (I think Mark_MSX's measurements for those were pre-patch but I am not sure).

Studio Mudprints for the Bullet Heaven series did a review of the Vasara collection and noticed this difference as well. I forgot the exact words/phrasing they used, but in their opinion this noticeable increase in input lag combined with the original difficulty of the games themselves made it harder to enjoy on the Switch than other platforms, and having tried it myself I see exactly why they said that.

I don't know about labeling the Switch port "unplayable" but it is definitely borderline, which is why I wouldn't recommend it unless you highly weigh the portability of it in your decision.


Sure, I can't disagree with any of that. I can't tell people how something should feel to them, only point out just how small the hairs we're splitting here really are.


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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:04 pm 


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Obiwanshinobi wrote:
I wouldn't realise how brilliant Onimusha series is in that respect 'till I read this review about making Spartan: Total Warrior.

Oh nice, it's a rather refreshing interview! Outside of maybe FPSes and their firing SFX (that usually aren't very cartoony or exaggerated the way Vasara is), I don't really recall devs expressing how important it is to nail the feeling and feedback of the basic player actions. And the guy here really seems to have understood that aspect. It's not about technological prowess, but simply using the right animations and movements to convey the strength of your attacks. Pretty neat. He didn't seem to have mentionned sound but I imagine that was also part of his process.

Well, nowadays there's indie games focusing on all that too ("game juice" they call it) which is really great, but too often it's with cheap tricks like excessive screenshaking.
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 Post subject: Re: My thoughts on Vasara (Vasara collection psn)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:54 am 


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M.Knight wrote:
Obiwanshinobi wrote:
I wouldn't realise how brilliant Onimusha series is in that respect 'till I read this review about making Spartan: Total Warrior.

Oh nice, it's a rather refreshing interview! Outside of maybe FPSes and their firing SFX (that usually aren't very cartoony or exaggerated the way Vasara is), I don't really recall devs expressing how important it is to nail the feeling and feedback of the basic player actions. And the guy here really seems to have understood that aspect. It's not about technological prowess, but simply using the right animations and movements to convey the strength of your attacks. Pretty neat. He didn't seem to have mentionned sound but I imagine that was also part of his process.

Well, nowadays there's indie games focusing on all that too ("game juice" they call it) which is really great, but too often it's with cheap tricks like excessive screenshaking.


Yes!

My copy of ESP.Ra.De finally arrived yesterday. My main game lately has been Gunbird 2, which is just joyful to shoot things in, the auditory feedback on both the shots and hits just feels so good.. Which is why it was jarring to jump into Esp.Ra.De which often sounds like...nothing in that regard. Like shooting bosses has no audible hit registration? It made me put it back in the case pretty quickly to revisit again later down the road when I'm not going to compare it to something masterful in that area.

But my Flip Grip arrived today, which had me running through every game I have that supports tate. I eventually gave Vasara a go and...the game clicked for me like it hadn't before, specifically 2. The shooting sounds & feels fantastic. The game is hard AF but the feel had me credit feeding just because the auditory feedback felt so good I had to keep going.

It's weird to me that an experienced developer would overlook that factor when it's clearly such a core element of design in this genre.


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