shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:13 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:27 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 2406
Location: polar malortex, illinois
Apologies if this has already been posted.

https://github.com/nullobject/Arcade-Cave_MiSTer

Beta core, runs DDP, no sound yet though.
_________________
Image
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:37 pm 



Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 252
Location: St Louis, IL, USA
This is amazing, and I'm SUPER excited.

Having said that, much like software emulation, I think arcade cores on MiSTer are still bound by what the devs can figure out via the outputs of the custom chips, so it's yet still not a 100% re-creation. If it were, it would help develop recreation custom chips that may be failing in many PCBs.

Still. Super stoked to see this and can't wait for sound and more CAVE goodness at a price more people can afford!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:56 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 07 Sep 2013
Posts: 1451
Location: Pennsylvania
If you have a MiSTer and want to get in on this, $5 at Null Object's Patreon page gets you beta access.

Of course keep in mind that it is very much an early beta, the game itself technically runs, but no sound obviously, (allegedly) inaccurate slowdown, graphical anomalies, and occasional crashes. Also scaler features like screen rotation currently don't work, so you'll need a tate monitor, and direct video / the 15 khz to 31khz scandoubler aren't yet implemented so you'll have to use a config override to activate the VGA scaler (which adds latency, negating the benefit of VGA) if you're using a HDMI to VGA dongle.

All that said, this project is very promising, and could very well be the next best thing to a PCB if polished enough.

Also Null Object has a Dangun Feveron PCB and has stated he plans to work on that after Dodonpachi.
_________________
Click here to visit the Church of Yagawa: Long may his medals chain.
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:12 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 2127
Location: Nebraska, USA
I've been following the progress of this as I see updates on Twitter. Very exciting! I wish I could get the I/O board for my MiSTer, but it was apparently back-ordered. That would be reason enough to run dual output, so I could get the signal to a CRT for playing, while having it still output via HDMI for streaming or capture.
_________________
"Playing a shmup with an analog stick is like trying to fill out the New York Times crossword with a can of spray paint." - Topher Cantler
YouTube | Twitter | Tumblr | Shoot the Core-cast Shmup Podcast


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:36 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 2406
Location: polar malortex, illinois
bump — The core is out of beta and was publicly released today. Get shmuppin'!
_________________
Image
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:25 am 



Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 252
Location: St Louis, IL, USA
it290 wrote:
bump — The core is out of beta and was publicly released today. Get shmuppin'!


It plays and looks great to me, but I've only played the PCB one time.

Can some experts weigh in on accuracy?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:09 pm 



Joined: 30 Oct 2016
Posts: 249
Is there any benefit to this compared to emulation?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:04 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2017
Posts: 169
el_rika wrote:
Is there any benefit to this compared to emulation?


No matter how good software emulation is, I believe there is always going to be at least 1 frame of added lag. This being a hardware solution won't have that. It should be the most accurate way to play it outside of the actual PCB. Though it should be noted that the no added lag is for the analog output. For the HDMI side of things if the hdmi equipment (monitor, tv, receiver, switch etc) you're using doesn't like out of spec refresh rates you'll need to use the video mode that can add some lag but makes the refresh 60hz. I don't know how much it would be in this case, some one with more knowledge than me would have to chime in here.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:26 am 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 2406
Location: polar malortex, illinois
Quote:
Is there any benefit to this compared to emulation?


In addition to what Johnpv said, you also get easy, accurate analog output without having to futz around with a lot of crt driver stuff.
_________________
Image
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:35 am 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 303
Guys, check the Groovymame forums (be patient with the search there, though), next-frame response has already been achieved... It's a complex subject (it depends on when the input gets polled originally, for starters) and I'm no expert, but the frame delay feature and powerful enough hardware do the job.

The DDP core was published without slowdowns accuracy, it seems:

https://twitter.com/moftsoft/status/1270654910648823809

So it's likely it's even less accurate than Mame currently. Fortunately, it seems wait states should be easier to fix under FPGA, but I'm worried about the "I don't want perfect to be the enemy of the good" statement - that's been Mame devs' premise since the early days and after all this time we've learnt that it just means "quantity over quality".


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:44 am 



Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 35
Johnpv wrote:
For the HDMI side of things if the hdmi equipment (monitor, tv, receiver, switch etc) you're using doesn't like out of spec refresh rates you'll need to use the video mode that can add some lag but makes the refresh 60hz. I don't know how much it would be in this case, some one with more knowledge than me would have to chime in here.


Quote:
When using HDMI output the image must be scaled up to fit the higher resolutions, which requires additional processing. The MiSTer scaler has options which impact its latency. Using vsync_adjust=2 in the ini file will result in about 4 scanlines of latency, while 0 or 1 will result in up to roughly 2 frames of latency, with the added advantage of being more compatible with displays.

In addition your own television or monitor may introduce more latency, but this varies by device and no definite number can be given on that here.

In summary, if lag is critical to you, it's best to play on a CRT using a recommended and widely-tested USB controller. Some users have tested and ranked USB controllers by performance; you can see their results here.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Lag-Explained

I don't know how it compares to a PC latency. I use MiSTer with CRTs and it's no doubt the best option in this case: lag free and also fuss free when it comes to configuring: you just change a few values and it works. The only problem is game availability: currently it supports only a fraction of roms which MAME offers, which is why I also have a crtemudriver PC setup.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CAVE 68k MiSTer beta core
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:38 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 07 Sep 2013
Posts: 1451
Location: Pennsylvania
Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Guys, check the Groovymame forums (be patient with the search there, though), next-frame response has already been achieved... It's a complex subject (it depends on when the input gets polled originally, for starters) and I'm no expert, but the frame delay feature and powerful enough hardware do the job.

The DDP core was published without slowdowns accuracy, it seems:

https://twitter.com/moftsoft/status/1270654910648823809

So it's likely it's even less accurate than Mame currently. Fortunately, it seems wait states should be easier to fix under FPGA, but I'm worried about the "I don't want perfect to be the enemy of the good" statement - that's been Mame devs' premise since the early days and after all this time we've learnt that it just means "quantity over quality".


Please keep in mind those statements regarding the DDP core were made about 7 months ago, during which time the core has undergone considerable maturation.
_________________
Click here to visit the Church of Yagawa: Long may his medals chain.
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bydo Empire, Google [Bot], Knightmare, Sir Ilpalazzo and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group