shmups.system11.org

Apologies if this has already been posted.

https://github.com/nullobject/Arcade-Cave_MiSTer

Beta core, runs DDP, no sound yet though.

This is amazing, and I'm SUPER excited.

Having said that, much like software emulation, I think arcade cores on MiSTer are still bound by what the devs can figure out via the outputs of the custom chips, so it's yet still not a 100% re-creation. If it were, it would help develop recreation custom chips that may be failing in many PCBs.

Still. Super stoked to see this and can't wait for sound and more CAVE goodness at a price more people can afford!

If you have a MiSTer and want to get in on this, $5 at Null Object's Patreon page gets you beta access.

Of course keep in mind that it is very much an early beta, the game itself technically runs, but no sound obviously, (allegedly) inaccurate slowdown, graphical anomalies, and occasional crashes. Also scaler features like screen rotation currently don't work, so you'll need a tate monitor, and direct video / the 15 khz to 31khz scandoubler aren't yet implemented so you'll have to use a config override to activate the VGA scaler (which adds latency, negating the benefit of VGA) if you're using a HDMI to VGA dongle.

All that said, this project is very promising, and could very well be the next best thing to a PCB if polished enough.

Also Null Object has a Dangun Feveron PCB and has stated he plans to work on that after Dodonpachi.

I've been following the progress of this as I see updates on Twitter. Very exciting! I wish I could get the I/O board for my MiSTer, but it was apparently back-ordered. That would be reason enough to run dual output, so I could get the signal to a CRT for playing, while having it still output via HDMI for streaming or capture.

bump — The core is out of beta and was publicly released today. Get shmuppin'!

It plays and looks great to me, but I've only played the PCB one time.

Can some experts weigh in on accuracy?

Is there any benefit to this compared to emulation?

No matter how good software emulation is, I believe there is always going to be at least 1 frame of added lag. This being a hardware solution won't have that. It should be the most accurate way to play it outside of the actual PCB. Though it should be noted that the no added lag is for the analog output. For the HDMI side of things if the hdmi equipment (monitor, tv, receiver, switch etc) you're using doesn't like out of spec refresh rates you'll need to use the video mode that can add some lag but makes the refresh 60hz. I don't know how much it would be in this case, some one with more knowledge than me would have to chime in here.

In addition to what Johnpv said, you also get easy, accurate analog output without having to futz around with a lot of crt driver stuff.

Guys, check the Groovymame forums (be patient with the search there, though), next-frame response has already been achieved... It's a complex subject (it depends on when the input gets polled originally, for starters) and I'm no expert, but the frame delay feature and powerful enough hardware do the job.

The DDP core was published without slowdowns accuracy, it seems:

https://twitter.com/moftsoft/status/1270654910648823809

So it's likely it's even less accurate than Mame currently. Fortunately, it seems wait states should be easier to fix under FPGA, but I'm worried about the "I don't want perfect to be the enemy of the good" statement - that's been Mame devs' premise since the early days and after all this time we've learnt that it just means "quantity over quality".

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Lag-Explained

I don't know how it compares to a PC latency. I use MiSTer with CRTs and it's no doubt the best option in this case: lag free and also fuss free when it comes to configuring: you just change a few values and it works. The only problem is game availability: currently it supports only a fraction of roms which MAME offers, which is why I also have a crtemudriver PC setup.

Please keep in mind those statements regarding the DDP core were made about 7 months ago, during which time the core has undergone considerable maturation.

I've played several hours of the public DDP core at this point. I don't have a PCB to compare to, but I overall I have to say it compares favorably to both Saturn and PS1 versions, and is far and away the most convenient way to get DoDonPachi on your CRT. The dev has already started to work on the rest of the Cave 68k lineup and Dangun is likely coming next.

The Saturn and Playstation versions of DDP had little to do with the original game in terms of slowdown. Have you ever tried Groovymame's frame delay+CRT?

I'm a noob, so take this with a grain of salt... I have tried DDP on MAME, Saturn and MiSTer, and I think I will stick with the MiSTer version just for the sheer convenience. Being able to play it on a CRT via component (without any additional DAC) is simply magical. Consider me sold for good.

Don't you need a transcoder for the MiSTer? For those without RGB monitors/TVs, then the MiSTer has another selling point over Groovymame I guess, but you don't need a DAC for it either, it's native resolution at 15/24/31khz analog RGB out of the box as well with a compatible graphics card.

The interesting part is whether if MiSTer's code includes more accurate wait states emulation than Mame's code therefore more accurate slowdowns, which has been traditionally the Achilles' heel of emulators, particularly noticeable with DDP's school due to the games' nature.