I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

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jehu
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by jehu »

Any chance we'll ever see P47 Aces on ACA with the work being done on Aces MK2 the exA version?

I'm still hoping for a few other gems to come out of the NMK vault, but that one especially would be an enormous treat.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Sengoku Strider »

You know, I talked about fond memories of Ghost Pilots previously, but after some time with the ACA version...man this might be the most ruthlessly cheap shooter I've ever played that wasn't just incompetently put together. It's like the game is constantly herding you into enemies which are coming up from behind (I can't think of any shooter that hits you with as many of those, much less one without any sort of rear-firing attack). Or, baiting you out of position for the next squad of power up enemies appearing. Given how slow your plane is, all that stuff might make this is the most routing heavy game I can think of that's not Pulstar.

I still like a lot of its fundamentals, I think it would be hard to like Fire Shark or Twin Hawk and hate this. But it seems like it's not letting you get anywhere without learning every inch of it.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

jehu wrote:Any chance we'll ever see P47 Aces on ACA with the work being done on Aces MK2 the exA version?

I'm still hoping for a few other gems to come out of the NMK vault, but that one especially would be an enormous treat.
Aces uses Jaleco's 32bit hardware, not a chance in many years, I'd say, and Exarcadia buying the license makes it even more unlikely.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by jehu »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:Aces uses Jaleco's 32bit hardware, not a chance in many years, I'd say
Ah okay, didn't know this. I guess I'll hope for Rapid Hero for ACA and keep praying that a philanthropist-STG-enthusiast will invest in exA in NYC.

I'm still surprised exA hasn't made it out to us at all, but - especially with the rise of ACA and Mister - there are so many high-quality options available that the wait has been relatively painless.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Steven »

Sengoku Strider wrote:You know, I talked about fond memories of Ghost Pilots previously, but after some time with the ACA version...man this might be the most ruthlessly cheap shooter I've ever played that wasn't just incompetently put together. It's like the game is constantly herding you into enemies which are coming up from behind (I can't think of any shooter that hits you with as many of those, much less one without any sort of rear-firing attack). Or, baiting you out of position for the next squad of power up enemies appearing. Given how slow your plane is, all that stuff might make this is the most routing heavy game I can think of that's not Pulstar.

I still like a lot of its fundamentals, I think it would be hard to like Fire Shark or Twin Hawk and hate this. But it seems like it's not letting you get anywhere without learning every inch of it.
Yeah, Ghost Pilots is... rough. I played it some time ago on my Neo Geo and wasn't especially fond of it. The game's serviceable, but looking at it now, I'm pretty sure they basically tried to copy Hishouzame without understanding what makes Hishouzame special. Or maybe it was Daisenpuu or something else, I don't know. It works, but there are better things to play on the Neo Geo.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by BIL »

I find Ghost Pilots to have an interesting kinship with Verytex (MD), the latter of which struck me enough to earn its own syndrome. Verytex Syndrome: STGs with likeable, technically sound mechanics (imitators of Toaplan and Compile respectively here), let down by transparently idling stage design. The sense of being stuck in a rolling cylinder, with the same zako patterns and midboss encounters cycling in over and over against nondescript backgrounds. It'd be different if those patterns were more exciting, and/or you had the incentive and means to aggressively annihilate them. Recca, Thunder Dragon 2 and Dangun all make famous use of waveshredding and speedkilling to generate some of the most buzzsaw-furious pace in the genre.

Toaplan themselves tended towards a sense of cartography, with each stage unfolding its own little desert/jungle/urban theatres of war; this is certainly a stylistic trademark of Hishouzame, Same3 and both Tigers. Even minor Toaplan epigones like Fighting Hawk reflect it, never mind more distinguished ones like Raiden and Trigon.

All this said, I like both of these games, Ghost Pilots mostly for its commendably muddy/cloudy scuff (the weathered gunmetal and classic gold medal pickups really pop out of the brutalised landscapes), Verytex for its simple Compilesque joy of homing missile movement and Sakimoto+Iwata's customarily BANGIN CHOONS (I like to think of the MD carts they soundtracked as albums with free games attached to play while you listen :mrgreen:). Just need some caveats when mentioning them in the company of their inspirations.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Sengoku Strider »

BIL wrote:I find Ghost Pilots to have an interesting kinship with Verytex (MD), the latter of which struck me enough to earn its own syndrome. Verytex Syndrome: STGs with likeable, technically sound mechanics (imitators of Toaplan and Compile respectively here), let down by transparently idling stage design. The sense of being stuck in a rolling cylinder, with the same zako patterns and midboss encounters cycling in over and over against nondescript backgrounds. It'd be different if those patterns were more exciting, and/or you had the incentive and means to aggressively annihilate them. Recca, Thunder Dragon 2 and Dangun all make famous use of waveshredding and speedkilling to generate some of the most buzzsaw-furious pace in the genre.

Toaplan themselves tended towards a sense of cartography, with each stage unfolding its own little desert/jungle/urban theatres of war; this is certainly a stylistic trademark of Hishouzame, Same3 and both Tigers. Even minor Toaplan epigones like Fighting Hawk reflect it, never mind more distinguished ones like Raiden and Trigon.

All this said, I like both of these games, Ghost Pilots mostly for its commendably muddy/cloudy scuff (the weathered gunmetal and classic gold medal pickups really pop out of the brutalised landscapes), Verytex for its simple Compilesque joy of homing missile movement and Sakimoto+Iwata's customarily BANGIN CHOONS (I like to think of the MD carts they soundtracked as albums with free games attached to play while you listen :mrgreen:). Just need some caveats when mentioning them in the company of their inspirations.
1. TIL the word 'epigone.' I don't know how I've never heard it before, it's useful.

2. I did not know Sakimoto worked on Verytex, or much of anything else about it because reviews all just seem to say stuff like "Verytex is an average shooter that mediumly exists. It has six levels, one more than five but not quite reaching seven. It contains enemies, and some parts are hard but some parts are not hard. Verytex is a mixed bag. Overall if you like things, Verytex might be for you." Also it's like $200 now so I was happy to not want it but now that might be ruined.

3. It's funny you bring up Sakimoto, because I spent a bunch of time this morning playing Sōkyūgurentai and that third stage just gets me so hype every time. It's like one of the most badass levels in shmups ever, really letting you feel like you're hunting down the enemy instead of the usual overwhelmed flea vs. armada vibe. That moment where you've smashed through all their air cover and drop through the clouds, now you've got their supply caravan in your sights and that booming main fanfare kicks back in again is just the best.

Which made me think of this fantastic 2010 Raizing interview with Toyama Yuichi & Yokoo Kenichi, which is worth a thread all its own:
—Please tell us a bit about Soukyuugurentai’s sound and music design.

Toyama: There are many parts that have Sakimoto’s personal touches. He worked hard to make the stage progression match the music progression, and to make the music sync with what was happening onscreen. I thought it was remarkable, like the music for the part in the third stage, when you can see the “Donryuu” boss through a break in the clouds.
He's talking about a different cool part of that stage than I am, which just further underlines how epic it is.

But I bring this up here because of this part:
Sakimoto also seemed to love science fiction and space stuff. At the time when I went into his room he had posters of space shuttle launches hanging on the wall, and I think he loved NASA as well. When I came to him and asked him to do the sound for Soukyuugurentai, the first thing he said to me was “I’ve been waiting to do science fiction! I’ve been dying to do something like this!”
Did he just forget about Verytex like everyone else did?

Anyway A1 post would read again.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by o.pwuaioc »

Sengoku Strider wrote:1. TIL the word 'epigone.' I don't know how I've never heard it before, it's useful.
You see it used in the context of Greek myth - the generation after Oedipus who fought at Thebes (after ol' Oeddy left because of you know what with his mama) were called the Epigoni. They then joined their elder statesmen at Troy during that other famous war. Back then, though, they were just the descendants, not some "inferior imitator."
2. I did not know Sakimoto worked on Verytex, or much of anything else about it because reviews all just seem to say stuff like "Verytex is an average shooter that mediumly exists. It has six levels, one more than five but not quite reaching seven. It contains enemies, and some parts are hard but some parts are not hard. Verytex is a mixed bag. Overall if you like things, Verytex might be for you." Also it's like $200 now so I was happy to not want it but now that might be ruined.
I will second those Verytex; it's decent, but nothing special, and not worth $200, which is more than Souky! And this is coming from someone who overspent on Shienryu.

On the other hand, Verytex for some reason is a common repro. You can probably find it along with Gleylancer, Eliminate Down, and Musha, by a bunch of knock-off repro makers.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by BIL »

Sengoku Strider wrote:3. It's funny you bring up Sakimoto, because I spent a bunch of time this morning playing Sōkyūgurentai and that third stage just gets me so hype every time. It's like one of the most badass levels in shmups ever, really letting you feel like you're hunting down the enemy instead of the usual overwhelmed flea vs. armada vibe. That moment where you've smashed through all their air cover and drop through the clouds, now you've got their supply caravan in your sights and that booming main fanfare kicks back in again is just the best.

Which made me think of this fantastic 2010 Raizing interview with Toyama Yuichi & Yokoo Kenichi, which is worth a thread all its own:
—Please tell us a bit about Soukyuugurentai’s sound and music design.

Toyama: There are many parts that have Sakimoto’s personal touches. He worked hard to make the stage progression match the music progression, and to make the music sync with what was happening onscreen. I thought it was remarkable, like the music for the part in the third stage, when you can see the “Donryuu” boss through a break in the clouds.
He's talking about a different cool part of that stage than I am, which just further underlines how epic it is.
One of the genre's most beloved setpieces, for good reason. :mrgreen: Such a universal concept - death from above, motherfuckers! - delivered with singular impact, like a bullseye railgun shot.

Sakimoto & Iwata (often partnered with Furukawa - not to be confused with Konami's legendary "Burning Heat" Motoaki - as in Verytex) must have one the strongest overall discographies around... like a lot of Westerners, I got into them via their RPG works, only to find they regularly brought the same fiery intensity and expert timing to STGs. Going way back, their first work REVOLTER (PC-88) plays like a concept album for all the badass STGs and action games they'd soundtrack in the near future.

Of their MD run, I can never choose between their Gauntlet and Bad Omen (aka Devilish) OSTs. Usually comes down to the funky diabolique of Transparent Obstacle versus the latter's opening BGM, which starts out willfully goofy before summoning an uncannily floor-shattering gravity. (Iwata and even moreso Furukawa seem to come and go unpredictably from Sakimoto's works, but they appear frequently enough I'm always comfier listing them than not - and besides both have lots of killer works of their own, heartily recommended)

It's all remarkably good stuff - see also the chest-thumpingly galvanic Midnight Resistance and soaring Vapor Trail, both of which blast the doors off of their arcade OSVs. As trap15 once remarked, perfect for racking up into a big playlist for working to. Image
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Steven »

Soukyuugurentai is a supremely badass game. I really want to put some serious time into learning it soon. I can get to stage 5 no problem, but there it kicks my ass. I haven't played it in a while, though, so right now I'd probably suck miserably if I played it.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by velo »

Koa Zo wrote:
velo wrote:Chack'n Pop on July 21...

Currently 50% off on PSN/Switch:

Arcade Archives KOUTETSU YOUSAI STRAHL
Arcade Archives MAGMAX
Arcade Archives RADICAL RADIAL
Arcade Archives TERRA CRESTA
Arcade Archives TUBE PANIC
ACA NEOGEO AERO FIGHTERS 2
ACA NEOGEO METAL SLUG
ACA NEOGEO SAMURAI SHODOWN IV
ACA NEOGEO STAKES WINNER
ACA NEOGEO THE KING OF FIGHTERS '98
Sweet! Thanks for the heads-up.
I've been wanting to try Tube Panic and Radical Radial.
Curious about Stakes Winner now too. Do I want to risk $4 on that?
Are any of those AA particularly recommended? Only Terra Cresta is sort of familiar for me, and I might have it mixed up with another Cresta...
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by BIL »

Sonic Wings 2, Terra Cresta and Strahl are all solid entries in their respective fields of proto-Psikyo, post-Xevious and early-90s powerup-obsessive hori. There's better examples of all on ACA (a higher-end slate would be Thunder Dragon 2, Xevious itself and XEXEX, respectively), and none have quite that novelty weird factor of something like UPL's earlier Atomic Robokid or Mutant Night (speaking of, get on Omega Fighter Special immediately, if you haven't already - no-nonsense excellence from an endearingly offbeat dev). Or actually MagMax, with its slightly offbeat isometric layout, multi-layered stages and neat SUPER ROBOTO concept. (keeping the bastard in one death-dealing piece is good fun) All fine pickups if you've fondness for aforesaid types of STG, and want to expand a bit.

Metal Slug is about as universally recommendable as arcade games get. It's a bit over-generous with the titular chibi-deathmachine, something its sequels gradually tightened up, but when the running and gunning is this viscerally good and sumptuously-produced, you won't care. Very decent first 1CC arcade title tbh. If you love this one it's almost a dead cert you'll at least like MSX and MS3.

Since we're on the subject of 2P Neo run/gunning, Shock Troopers is utterly essential. Mechanically airtight, tons of personality, and it packs reams of team and route possibilities to tinker with. Bangin' jungle/dnb tunes too.

KOF98's another essential, easily. Picked it up just now despite having it on MVS and DC and PS2, because said consoles are on the other side of the Atlantic and I have company this weekend. ACA Neo is very handy to have around. :cool:
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by o.pwuaioc »

BIL wrote:Sonic Wings 2, Terra Cresta and Strahl are all solid entries in their respective fields of proto-Psikyo, post-Xevious and early-90s powerup-obsessive hori. There's better examples of all on ACA (a higher-end slate would be Thunder Dragon 2, Xevious itself and XEXEX, respectively), and none have quite that novelty weird factor of something like UPL's earlier Atomic Robokid or Mutant Night (speaking of, get on Omega Fighter Special immediately, if you haven't already - no-nonsense excellence from an endearingly offbeat dev). Or actually MagMax, with its slightly offbeat isometric layout, multi-layered stages and neat SUPER ROBOTO concept. (keeping the bastard in one death-dealing piece is good fun) All fine pickups if you've fondness for aforesaid types of STG, and want to expand a bit.
Sonic Wings 2 has a neat remix with the Saturn Sonic Wings Special. I also thought that Terra Cresta was a major improvement over Xevious in every way. I think I'm in the minority here, but I also didn't play Xevious when it first came out, so maybe I just never developed the attachment to it? Xevious clones I enjoy, though, just not the big X itself.

Of course, then we get Terra Cresta II on the PCE for a whole new experience.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Sima Tuna »

KoF '98 is one of the best 2d fighting games around, along with Darkstalkers 3, Samsho II and Third Strike. But I will say that any fighting game loses a lot of its appeal if you don't have someone to play with. So I'd give it a half-recommend. Big recommend if you have somebody local to play against. More of a "maybe" if you'll only be accessing solo content. Solo vs AI in SNK fighting games becomes either tedious or frustrating very quickly. You either stomp the AI flat by abusing shit they can't react to, or get stomped yourself when they read the inputs and cheat (performing charge moves without charging is the classic example.)

Metal Slug 1 is my favorite Metal Slug game by a country mile. I think part of the reason I like it so much is the game is easy. For an arcade game. It's easy, but still provides this incredible tactile feedback, while offering a challenge that's juuuust stiff enough to make you feel good for overcoming it.

I was actually considering bitching on this thread about the hamster version of MS1. But it was a false alarm. I thought maybe the hamster version had some lag in it, because I kept getting these false diagonal inputs and couldn't time my jumps. But then I switched from a shitty off-brand controller in docked mode over to joycons in portable. Night and day difference. I went from dying constantly to no-missing the early stages. As far as I can tell, Hamster's version of MS1 is the definitive one. With the "00" smoothing on (just enough to cut down the jaggies,) it looks beautiful in motion, responds hella fast and doesn't have any of the added loading present in the shitty ps2 compilation.

Of all the games Hamster have preserved, I'd say the Metal Slug series most deserved it. We went years without a decent conversion, making do with the SNK Classics Vol 1 and Metal Slug Anthology.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by BrianC »

Sima Tuna wrote: I was actually considering bitching on this thread about the hamster version of MS1. But it was a false alarm. I thought maybe the hamster version had some lag in it, because I kept getting these false diagonal inputs and couldn't time my jumps. But then I switched from a shitty off-brand controller in docked mode over to joycons in portable. Night and day difference. I went from dying constantly to no-missing the early stages. As far as I can tell, Hamster's version of MS1 is the definitive one. With the "00" smoothing on (just enough to cut down the jaggies,) it looks beautiful in motion, responds hella fast and doesn't have any of the added loading present in the shitty ps2 compilation.
Funny thing is that if you didn't mention off brand, I would assume you were talking about the official pro controller. I bought that gamesir t4 wireless controller on recommendation from another forum member and, if DS4Windows is any indication, it actually has less lag than the official pro controller.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Steven »

It's really too bad the ACA NEOGEO releases won't let you use AES mode, as KOF '98 is one of those games where there is absolutely no point in playing it on the MVS if you can play it on the AES, as the game has a few extra modes on AES that it doesn't have on MVS and the ROM is identical anyway, so Hamster have to go out of their way to reprogram the game to remove the AES stuff. Yes, it is Arcade Archives and not Consolized Arcade Machine Archives, but still...
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

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o.pwuaioc wrote:I also thought that Terra Cresta was a major improvement over Xevious in every way. I think I'm in the minority here, but I also didn't play Xevious when it first came out, so maybe I just never developed the attachment to it? Xevious clones I enjoy, though, just not the big X itself.
I'm more fond of Terra Cresta myself, having a similar lack of history with Xevious. A faster, catchier, and generally more instantly-arresting game. Watching some of the crazy shit JP players pull off in Xevious though, I always defer to it as the early 80s ground-bombing big dog, even with its crummy music. :cool: :lol:
Sima Tuna wrote:Metal Slug 1 is my favorite Metal Slug game by a country mile. I think part of the reason I like it so much is the game is easy. For an arcade game. It's easy, but still provides this incredible tactile feedback, while offering a challenge that's juuuust stiff enough to make you feel good for overcoming it.

I was actually considering bitching on this thread about the hamster version of MS1. But it was a false alarm. I thought maybe the hamster version had some lag in it, because I kept getting these false diagonal inputs and couldn't time my jumps. But then I switched from a shitty off-brand controller in docked mode over to joycons in portable. Night and day difference. I went from dying constantly to no-missing the early stages. As far as I can tell, Hamster's version of MS1 is the definitive one. With the "00" smoothing on (just enough to cut down the jaggies,) it looks beautiful in motion, responds hella fast and doesn't have any of the added loading present in the shitty ps2 compilation.
Incidentally, even the MVS version running on 100% stock hardware has a few notable input drop hazards when slowdown kicks in - mostly during the fifth boss's pincer rockets. You have to tap [left] and [right] more deliberately than elsewhere to get those pivots.

So I'm not surprised dodgy hardware might be especially troublesome here, with the Slugs running the Neo hardware at redline the way they do.

There's also the tiny but potentially deadly turnaround attack drop, which appeared in MS2, and survived into MSX, before finally being expunged in MS3. Basically, if you're turning to attack something behind you, always "security tap" [shot] or [bomb] until the attack is safely out. Here's a great place to get your head blown off otherwise. :mrgreen: (that double Girida speedkill looks and feels great, but the second tank will PWN you for a split-second's delay) Again, this is straight outta the real carts/mobos/sticks.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Steven »

Yeah, Metal Slug kind of runs like shit half of the time. Then there is Metal Slug 2, which runs like shit 95% of the time. Not sure what happened there. They are all absolutely worth buying (but not on AES. Lol $60,000 USD AES Metal Slug 1) and playing the shit out of. Except maybe 2, given the performance issues.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by BIL »

From what I understand of trap's MS2 Turbo notes, they basically screwed up the code, causing it to slow down twice as much as it should've, for that truly God-awful staggering effect.

It always kinda cheeses me off when people say MSX has "no" slowdown... it has shit-tons of it, at times. :lol: But it's the expected sort, very tolerable. MS2 practically becomes an interactive symposium on the bionic reflexes a soldier would need to survive any of this shit for more than five seconds.

Actually, even in decently-performing games, this is something I think about, EG while watching poor scrub Rebels die en masse to MS3's various otherworldly horrors as your team ardently blasts on through. Maybe the third-person FOV and absolute precision - just gotta worry about XY coordinates, then it's headshots and Matrix dodges all day! - is a kind of Peregrine Falcon / Contra-vision. It's not that those poor noobs don't know How2Play, they're just what happens when "normal" soldiers get chucked into the run/gun meatgrinder.

Image Image

Guy in plane "NANIII?!" Zombie #2422 "BAKANAAA"

What in God's name has MS2 done to me. :shock:

Annoyingly, MS2 is perhaps the most gorgeous of Nazca's four Slugs >_< MSX's cartoonier hues kinda let me down, opposite the gorgeous painterly restraint MS2 shares with 1+3. Some neat stage layouts too, generally easier and simpler but not without merit, like st4's closing downhill tank massacre (an instance of the biblical slowdown actually feeling pretty good, with the sky all but blotted out in burning debris) and a much trickier st5 subway.

What in God's name has MS2 done to me Part II: Crying Over Spilt Milk While Stabbing Nazis In The Dick :cool:
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Steven »

Yeah, I figured it's got to be some sort of optimization problem with 2. The programmer has a nap. Hold out! Programmer! Or something like that. X is better, but it still has some noticeable slowdown. Every time I play Metal Slug 1 or X I feel like my poor Neo Geo is dying... I haven't played 3-5 a whole lot, so I can't really say about those, though they are all fun as shit, just like everything else Nazca made. This is of course just an excuse to talk about how incredible Neo Turf Masters/Big Tournament Golf is. There are people that say sports games are shit or whatever and I instantly know they've never played that game.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by BIL »

I was almost gonna say forget Stakes Winner and grab NTM/BTG, but I've never actually played the former, so for all I know it might be good :oops: (I mostly know it from the Neo-Geo.com forum's antics circa early 00s, an entire carnival of the bizarre unto itself... ah, the days of "Bro, I totes found this unopened crate of AES Aero Fighters 3 in my uncle's attic! Just 15k apiece bro!" :lol:)

But regardless, ala Shock Troopers, anyone with the slightest affection for arcade gaming should grab BTG. :cool: Whole lotta IREM golfing expertise culminated in that masterpiece.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Steven »

Yeah, Shock Troopers is fucking awesome as well. Definitely something that should not be missed. lol just don't buy Shock Troopers Second Squad by mistake...

I love Neo Turf Masters so much. I always found it interesting that these guys made R-Type, then they made In the Hunt, and then they made a fucking golf game... but said golf game happens to be the greatest sports game of all time, so yeah, absolutely play the shit out of it! I actually have a Japanese MVS Big Tournament Golf cartridge but no MVS to play it in. Maybe I'll get one eventually... or maybe just an AES converter.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by trap15 »

Steven wrote:Yeah, I figured it's got to be some sort of optimization problem with 2.
The funny part is, while it still does have a good amount of it, the largest factor in why 2's slowdown is so insane is a really simple mistake in their code that locks the game to 30fps. Instead of it slowing down to 20fps, it'll drop to 15, because it's only allowing to drop down to divisions of 30, instead of divisions of 60. As such, instead of dropping to 12fps, it drops to 10fps, etc. (drops to 15 and 10 themselves are correct, but effectively happen with much less load than they are supposed to).
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Steven wrote:I love Neo Turf Masters so much. I always found it interesting that these guys made R-Type, then they made In the Hunt, and then they made a fucking golf game... but said golf game happens to be the greatest sports game of all time, so yeah, absolutely play the shit out of it!
They actually tried twice before, check the Major Title series (it's indeed believed that Big Tournament Golf/Neo Turf Masters was a Major Title 3 project before the Nazca era).
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Sumez
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Sumez »

I can't imagine anyone has ever questioned that the Major Title games were made by the same people. :P

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Steven
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Steven »

trap15 wrote:
Steven wrote:Yeah, I figured it's got to be some sort of optimization problem with 2.
The funny part is, while it still does have a good amount of it, the largest factor in why 2's slowdown is so insane is a really simple mistake in their code that locks the game to 30fps. Instead of it slowing down to 20fps, it'll drop to 15, because it's only allowing to drop down to divisions of 30, instead of divisions of 60. As such, instead of dropping to 12fps, it drops to 10fps, etc. (drops to 15 and 10 themselves are correct, but effectively happen with much less load than they are supposed to).
In that case, I imagine you probably didn't have to do too much work to make Turbo. Still strange that they never caught that in development... unless they did and said "good enough" and/or rushed it out instead of bothering to fix it.
Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Steven wrote:I love Neo Turf Masters so much. I always found it interesting that these guys made R-Type, then they made In the Hunt, and then they made a fucking golf game... but said golf game happens to be the greatest sports game of all time, so yeah, absolutely play the shit out of it!
They actually tried twice before, check the Major Title series (it's indeed believed that Big Tournament Golf/Neo Turf Masters was a Major Title 3 project before the Nazca era).
lol yeah, I always forget that those exist. The first time I saw them I was like "Hey cool, it's Neo Turf Masters! ...I think. Probably...". I'd really like to try them. Definitely the same dev team for sure.
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Marc
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Marc »

Steven wrote:Yeah, Shock Troopers is fucking awesome as well. Definitely something that should not be missed. lol just don't buy Shock Troopers Second Squad by mistake...

I love Neo Turf Masters so much. I always found it interesting that these guys made R-Type, then they made In the Hunt, and then they made a fucking golf game... but said golf game happens to be the greatest sports game of all time, so yeah, absolutely play the shit out of it! I actually have a Japanese MVS Big Tournament Golf cartridge but no MVS to play it in. Maybe I'll get one eventually... or maybe just an AES converter.
I love it, but I do occasionally find it a bit imprecise, it doesn't really give the player a lot of basic info while playing.
Last edited by Marc on Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Sima Tuna »

BIL wrote:From what I understand of trap's MS2 Turbo notes, they basically screwed up the code, causing it to slow down twice as much as it should've, for that truly God-awful staggering effect.

It always kinda cheeses me off when people say MSX has "no" slowdown... it has shit-tons of it, at times. :lol: But it's the expected sort, very tolerable. MS2 practically becomes an interactive symposium on the bionic reflexes a soldier would need to survive any of this shit for more than five seconds.
Yeah, Metal Slug definitely has a lot of slowdown. MS2 has the most, for sure, but I remember slowdown out the ass in MSX. I'd have to go back and play MS3 and MS4 to see if they run ANY better than the others. That's one point I'll give to contra. I didn't notice excessive slowdown or input lag eating inputs when playing Hard Corps, Contra FC or Super C.

I'm aware of turnaround in MS eating inputs. There are certain actions which seem to be eaten by lag if you hit a bad patch of slowdown right as the animations are playing. Turning is one of those. I have heard Mark MSX say you can set emulation to 200% cpu clock speed in retroarch to eliminate a lot of the lag in Metal Slug and Metal Slug 2. Not sure if I said that correctly. It was something like that though.

With a lot of arcade games, "arcade perfect" is an ideal to aspire to. But there are a few games, like Metal Slug 2, where "arcade perfect" still isn't near good enough. :lol: I say that as someone who probably considers MS2 the second-best MS game.... If it ran correctly. I already stated my preference for easy Slug games. I think MS3 is just too grueling for me to enjoy past the first couple of levels.
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by BIL »

MS3 runs the smoothest of Nazca's Slugs - there's only a handful of points where it'll reliably chug (st4's opening desert battle is one), but even there, it's nowhere as slow as say MSX's st5 streets featuring a roughly equivalent number of enemies. It even manages a bit of that Treasure-styled boss explosion overload (try drilling clean through st4's Brain Bugs, super gratifying Image The first time I saw that scene in overclocked emulation it was all but startling, with the resulting screenload of purple shite gushing everywhere at a clean 30fps :lol: It's like one of them thar Japon-ese hen-ties! :shock:

The tradeoff is that MS3 has a lot less destructible scenery than MSX or even MS1; there's nothing like MS1's opening village or occupied town, or X's Chinatown, where multiple screens' worth of scenery gets demolished to the foundations. Or those endless lines of cars and trucks to asplode in MSX's aforementioned street. It's clear they were allocating resources to the front action more conscientiously by then.

MS4 and MS5 pretty much perform like MS3, though the latter is a relative ghost town anyway, with enemy numbers more reminiscent of Rockman than Slug (not a hater or anything, MS5 has flashes of brilliance and acquits itself more than sufficiently - it's just easily noticed, after swimming through an ocean of burning metal and screaming bloody gore in the previous).

MS4 is a personal favourite, and I always maintain anyone who turns their nose up at it outright as some kind of fugazi probably wouldn't know a good Slug if it jumped up and bit them on the dick. :evil: :mrgreen: Noise Factory knew how to achieve and maintain the series' trademark critical mass of easy-operating, monstrously destructive yet perilously technical action. While the aesthetic pastiche is obvious, that's some quality wall-to-wall hardcore killing going on, with impressively minimal slowdown too. Image I'm comfortably certain if it'd received a brand new Nazca-calibre coat of paint, it'd be roundly better-liked.

(players who find MS4 annoyingly designed, OTOH, I get. it spends pretty much the entire runtime, post-st1, in what Nazca always reserved for their 11th-hour mode, making for a much bumpier ride. still eminently shreddable though!)
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Re: I'm so glad that Hamster's Arcade Archives are a thing.

Post by Skyknight »

Thunder Ceptor tomorrow.

Anyone else get the impression that Namco and Taito are besotted with this service?
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