Crimzon Clover World Explosion (Switch)

guigui · Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 1751 Location: France

Thanks to Icarus for posting those strats, always helpful.

Now about Boost mode, I finally discovered that your timer gets stopped as long as there is a boss or midboss, or health bar on screen, so there is no need to rush their kills. However, each part of the boss or midboss you destroy adds a fixed amount of time to your timer. Here are the parts I found can be destroyed for more time :
* Stage 1 boss : both cannons on its side
* Stage 2 midboss : both rotating turrets he sends on its second phase
* Stage 2 boss : obviously all the pods on its legs
* Stage 3 midboss : nothing ?
* Stage 3 boss : during the second phase, he is surrounded by rotating pods. Do not release lock on at any time to kill all pods before going to the next phase.
* Stage 4 midbosses : nothing too fancy that I found.
* Stage 4 boss : first 2 phases have a lot of cannons appearing on its side, try to destroy as many as possible without destroying the core. Refrain from releasing lock on helps.
* Stage 5 midboss : it looks like the Cinderella-Amber-like tank has some turrets that can be destroyed on its upper part. Still have to find a way to get them though.
* Stage 5 boss : pretty straightforward. Maybe the third phase with lots of blue lasers can be milked for pods kills ?

Don't hesitate to share more scoring tricks.

Tim James · Joined: 27 Dec 2013 Posts: 115

Jonpachi wrote:

There's a 13 Trillion run of Arrange Original on Youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEgpHDMfZ24

This video was really instructive to me on scoring for Arrange. It's a "rich get richer" mode where the break mode leads to more medals, which leads to more breaks. Like Icarus said, dying wastes too much time trying to power back up, but the insidious thing is how it puts you into a rut that is difficult to escape from.

For example, I played a round of Arrange Unlimited tonight with Type-III using some techniques from the video. I ended stage 3 with over 7 trillion in score, which seemed surprising since my previous high score through 5 stages was roughly 3 trillion (playing for survival). But I ended the game at EX BOSS 2 with only 10 trillion in score. Why? Because I lost so many shields in stage 4 and died so many times in stage 5 that I rarely got a healthy chain going.

It also showed me the challenge with Type III in Arrange. In general I think that ship is easier to play because its default speed lets you catch large medals and the tracking options stay near the ship so they feel safer, especially in Unlimited. The problem is it has the shield before break mode in the power-up bar, so semi-auto always picks the shield first. That makes it hard to get back on the break train because I'm usually not good enough to survive that long without the bullet cancels (which is how I got into the rut in the first place). So I either need to learn to play in manual or stick with Type I.

Icarus · Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 7301 Location: England

Tim James wrote:

Jonpachi wrote:

There's a 13 Trillion run of Arrange Original on Youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEgpHDMfZ24

This video was really instructive to me on scoring for Arrange.

Here's my current PB for Arrange Original (15.53tril). I think only the sixth full credit in the mode so far? I've only really sat down with the game twice since I bought it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsSjeSZ6p1E
Several minor mistakes, 18-19tril potential with these routes. The current overall highest score for Arrange Original is 23tril.

Trevor spencer · Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 955 Location: UK

Hi

Sorry if this has been asked already but would I be able to get this in an Tate Astro City 15khz ?

I was thinking

Super Emotia
Hdmi to VGA adapter
Viletims Jamma
Toodles PS3 Adapter

Do you think this would work if I got some sort of Switch to PS3 controller Adapter?

Thanks

seiatsu · Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 142

Icarus wrote:

guigui wrote:

seiatsu wrote:

1) what is the significance of the "Rate up speed" that appears directly above the break rate text at the start of the game?

2) in the stage detail widget, what is "Flush"?

3) this is more superficial but why don't we have the super plays that were contained in earlier releases (as dlc I believe) and are the planning on offering this. I guess I don't really need it with youtube and all but I do like watching super impressive runs

Also, I've watched some vids (mainly the stellar runs from icarus) and read up on scoring and while I guess I have the basic idea of it all and do ok in that regard, I can't seem to get my break rate as high as I'd like /expected so I'm assuming there is something I'm overlooking. I see scattered info on scoring here and around the internet but nothing comprehensive going into any detail on how to really push the scores / break rate way up. Does anyone know of any good resources in that regard? Given the age and praise of the game I'm kinda surprised at the lack of info. (I'm asking in regards to original mode atm)

I'm definitely interested in some answers for those questions too, especially the part about scoring/optimizing the break bar filling. Maybe asking Icarus directly ? This guy knows how to write a strategy guide

To quickly answer these questions:

1. "Rate-Up Speed" affects the speed that the Break Rate Counter increases - this was an attempt to balance the scoring for the arcade/World Ignition version of the game from the original PC doujin version. In the original PC doujin version, Break Rate increase was linear and constant across all stages, which led to stages 3 and 5 being the highest scoring stages in the game, and stage 4 being worthless in comparison - "Rate Up Speed" tries to equalise the Break Rate increase on all stages per ship so that every stage has the same scoring potential.

2. "Flush", in the new UI widget, refers to points gained from wiping the screen of bullets through bombs, Break Mode activations, and killing specific enemies that trigger a screen clear.

3. Those superplays were DLC for World Ignition - they may appear with World Explosion, but don't count on it.

As for optimal scoring strats:

Arcade:
- Use maximum lockons as much as you can, or close to them, as it adds a decent amount to both Break Rate and Break Gauge - this is doubly important as lockon kills fills both bars, while Shot kills only fills one bar at a time, usually the top bar.
- Pointblank in Break Mode. A lot. Especially with a high multiplier.
- You can extend your multiplier timer greatly by screenwiping with Break Mode activations - the more bullets cancelled, the better.
- If possible, only activate Break Mode if you can go into Double Break quickly or better yet immediately, as a lot of scoring is tied to Double Break.
- Do. Not. Die.

Arrange:
- Maxing out the Rank Bar is paramount as it not only converts the bullet patterns from Novice to Arcade (ergo: more medals = more points, and faster Power Gauge increases), but doubles the value of your lockon multiplier to a potential maximum of 25.6x. The fastest way to max rank is to get a Shield.
- It's faster to go into Break Mode and then power up your Option and Lock-on through kills, pointblanking and large medal collection, than doing it outside of Break Mode. Also better for early-game scoring.
- Having Homing Options is scoring-critical, as they generate pointblank medals which can drive scoring and powering-up speeds greatly, along with speedkills to trigger extra formations in some stages eg stage3 after midboss, stage4 bombers.
- Do. Not. Die. Ever. (Having to re-powerup costs precious scoring time.)

Nice summary here. Thanks for that.

In terms of arcade, most of that is what I've been trying to do but despite having improved since my initial post, I think I'm overlooking something (obvious) as I'm still not managing to push my break rate up or fill my gauges as much as I'd like.

Guess I have to keep at it. Maybe refine my routes and break points

Tim James · Joined: 27 Dec 2013 Posts: 115

Icarus wrote:

Here's my current PB for Arrange Original (15.53tril). I think only the sixth full credit in the mode so far? I've only really sat down with the game twice since I bought it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsSjeSZ6p1E
Several minor mistakes, 18-19tril potential with these routes. The current overall highest score for Arrange Original is 23tril.

Looks like I have lots of room for improvement in stage 5, especially the final section. That part seems challenging for me though.

I noticed one time you toggled between speed up and down a few times. Was that to time the start of break mode to a certain point?

Sengoku Strider · Joined: 05 Aug 2020 Posts: 266

I'm kind of torn on which mode I want to focus on. I prefer the way arcade handles breaks/bombs, but arrange has gigantic medals and more interesting power up options.

Icarus wrote:

The fastest way to max rank is to get a Shield.

Ah. That explains why I get shot almost instantly every time I get one.

guigui · Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 1751 Location: France

So I could finally break the 3 trillions on Novice Boost, with 3 deaths.

In Boost mode, there is an unseen rank which increases with the consecutive time you remain in Break mode. This rank makes all bullets faster, to the point that you get a Psikyo game if you just stay in Break forever.
One way to control this with minimal impact on your score would be to intentionally bomb just before getting a big green E item dropped by a boss. This way you'd break the Break consecutive time, then get back to Break mode imediatly thanks to the E item. Doing this at stage 2 and 4 bosses looks like a good idea to avoid the Psikyo situation.

Rastan78 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 522

As a person who doesn't heavily play bullet hell games, am I missing out by not buying this game? I keep hearing how good it is, but when I look at videos of it I'm completely turned off by how manic it looks and how the screen is completely covered by point counters etc. to the point where the background is barely visible.

When it comes to vertical shmups I like Toaplan, Seibu, Raizing and the like. Games that have a little more sparse patterns with more fast and aimed bullets. No bullet canceling. The pastel slow-moving floral bullet curtain thing of Cave and Touhou never did anything for me. Although I did really like Futari 1.5 Original. And while not an all time favorite I enjoyed the Shikigami series.

So can someone convince me I need to buy this anyway? Is there a mode that would appeal to my tastes? Or is it purely for fans of Dodonpachi?

Icarus · Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 7301 Location: England

Tim James wrote:

Icarus wrote:

Here's my current PB for Arrange Original (15.53tril). I think only the sixth full credit in the mode so far? I've only really sat down with the game twice since I bought it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsSjeSZ6p1E
Several minor mistakes, 18-19tril potential with these routes. The current overall highest score for Arrange Original is 23tril.

Looks like I have lots of room for improvement in stage 5, especially the final section. That part seems challenging for me though.

I noticed one time you toggled between speed up and down a few times. Was that to time the start of break mode to a certain point?

The “Speed” powerup goes up to a max of four, then straight down to one again, like in Gradius V. I prefer to have it at max - I don’t think I’ve ever purposely selected the Speed Down, and usually when I have in runs it’s by accident.

My current Break Mode timings aren’t finalised yet for this mode, since getting into Double Break is crucial. If anything, looking for routes where you can even get a Double Break Extension (eg end of stage 2) is even more important as it prolongs your time in Double Break, greatly increasing your score.

Sengoku Strider · Joined: 05 Aug 2020 Posts: 266

Rastan78 wrote:

As a person who doesn't heavily play bullet hell games, am I missing out by not buying this game? I keep hearing how good it is, but when I look at videos of it I'm completely turned off by how manic it looks and how the screen is completely covered by point counters etc. to the point where the background is barely visible.

When it comes to vertical shmups I like Toaplan, Seibu, Raizing and the like.

There's a fair bit of Sōkyūgurentai in this game, it has both its spherical lock on web and Layer Section's crosshair lock on to choose from. It's also not all that hell-y in the arrange mode. But if the slot machine avalanche of medals is a turnoff, that's all but unavoidable. Personally I think it's a pretty cool spectacle, the scale of which the genre has been missing for a long time.

It very much is Dodonpachi with a bunch of other mechanics grafted onto it, like the aforementioned lock-ons and a Gradius-style power up menu (though no DDP focus laser), but it plays really, really well, with a pretty compelling scoring system that empowers you to obliterate everything the game puts in front of you. It's easily one of the most finely crafted shooters in the past two decades (Mark MSX rated it as the best shmup of the past 10 years, though DDP is his all-time favourite so your mileage may vary). I'd suggest it's worth checking out at the price, but if cash is tight or you really think the design template might not work for you, maybe wait for a sale down the line to do so.

Lethe · Joined: 03 Mar 2020 Posts: 53

Boost mode is very similar to Futari Original, with less spammy patterns which get faster with rank (as guigui is talking about above). Also all modes of this game are much less heavy on the micrododging than your typical Cave game - let's not even mention Touhou - it really wants you to avoid tiny gaps whenever possible. Very much a routing game, at least before the final bosses. Honestly all the modes are so well-made that if even one of them can appeal to you then it's worth it. Having said that, CC is still a flagship excessive game in the same realm as DDPDFK (only a lot better than that one

) and if that absolutely doesn't work for you then it's never going to.

Rastan78 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 522

Sounds like I'll have to pick it up on sale at some point and give it a go. I do have a ton of respect for Cave and that Dodonpachi template btw. There are just other games I'd rather get to. It's more about the inevitable investment of time these days than the price of the game. And I feel bad for shelling out for a game that I just delete even it's not that pricey.

That happened to me with Rolling Gunner. While it seemed like a really well made game, I just couldnt get into it. Maybe deep down I dislike that the whole genre more or less became derivative of a single design formula. If I was more of a Cave fan I probably wouldn't be complaining. The only Cave game I have ever 1cc'd is Ibara, but Ibara is really a Raizing game in disguise. :lol:

Rastan78 · Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 522

Lethe, I like that you say it's more about routing and less about micrododging between tiny gaps.

chempop · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 3423 Location: Western-MA USA

Trevor spencer wrote:

Sorry if this has been asked already but would I be able to get this in an Tate Astro City 15khz ?

I was thinking

Super Emotia
Hdmi to VGA adapter
Viletims Jamma
Toodles PS3 Adapter

Do you think this would work if I got some sort of Switch to PS3 controller Adapter?

I'm running a HDMI>VGA for my 31khz cab monitor, not sure about the whole super emotia>viletim setup for 15khz though. For controls I used a brook PS3/4>switch superconverter and it did work, might add a couple frames of lag on my HRAP-Kai pcb. I decided to swap the controls to a brook ZeroPI, the results are probably a little better and it's a very clean setup now.

Hopefully someone can answer your quesiton on running the video, but I'd guess that it is possible with the Switch in 480P.

Trevor spencer · Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 955 Location: UK

chempop wrote:

Trevor spencer wrote:

Sorry if this has been asked already but would I be able to get this in an Tate Astro City 15khz ?

I was thinking

Super Emotia
Hdmi to VGA adapter
Viletims Jamma
Toodles PS3 Adapter

Do you think this would work if I got some sort of Switch to PS3 controller Adapter?

I'm running a HDMI>VGA for my 31khz cab monitor, not sure about the whole super emotia>viletim setup for 15khz though. For controls I used a brook PS3/4>switch superconverter and it did work, might add a couple frames of lag on my HRAP-Kai pcb. I decided to swap the controls to a brook ZeroPI, the results are probably a little better and it's a very clean setup now.

Hopefully someone can answer your quesiton on running the video, but I'd guess that it is possible with the Switch in 480P.

Ok thanks very much . I might give it a try as it would be nice to play this on my cab

Trevor spencer · Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 955 Location: UK

Btw do you have any pics of it running Tate in the cab ?

Thanks

chempop · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 3423 Location: Western-MA USA

Trevor spencer wrote:

Btw do you have any pics of it running Tate in the cab ?

Thanks

The game works perfectly in 4:3 in a vert cab. I wasn't sure at first because there are a number of UI 'widgets' to fill the top and bottom space, but they are unnecessary to gameplay so you should be able to crop them out my expanding the X/Y axis on both the game's setting and a little extra help with the monitors remote board (hopefully your cab has easy access controls).

I'll get you a clear pic after work today.

Trevor spencer · Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 955 Location: UK

Nice one.

Thanks

chempop · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 3423 Location: Western-MA USA

This shows how much of the UI I crop out and maintain what I think is proper ratio so the ship moves equal speed on the X&Y axis.

Trevor spencer · Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 955 Location: UK

That's excellent, thanks

I'll give it a go eventually when I find time.

Sengoku Strider · Joined: 05 Aug 2020 Posts: 266

That looks lovely.

Enemy · Joined: 10 Nov 2010 Posts: 302

Jonpachi wrote:

HRAP V Hayabusa is a beast of a stick, and feels great even unmodded.

Bought it and already upping my scores so thanks can I use this on other platforms with a converter?

Sengoku Strider · Joined: 05 Aug 2020 Posts: 266

Enemy wrote:

Jonpachi wrote:

HRAP V Hayabusa is a beast of a stick, and feels great even unmodded.

Bought it and already upping my scores so thanks can I use this on other platforms with a converter?

Yep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HGVWSv8A0k

Trevor spencer · Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 955 Location: UK

Sounds like a great stick . I'm after one of those champion edition ones

chempop · Joined: 31 Jul 2005 Posts: 3423 Location: Western-MA USA

After a little break from playing, I revisited Arrange Original and managed the clear without any warm up credits. This game is really something else, I'm starting to think it truly is the epitome of the modern bullet hell.

My only gripe about this game is the lack of an attract mode sequence. For such a perfect package in every other way, it's surprising to me that it's missing this simple feature.

Tim James · Joined: 27 Dec 2013 Posts: 115

This game makes me wish there were more premier shmups on Switch. I really enjoy grabbing a gamepad and playing a casual run in the living room when the mood strikes. I started World Ignition on PC with my arcade stick and quickly got distracted by other things.

I finished my two 0 boost all clears on Arrange Boost. Look for me way down the list of top scores! I'm working on Arrange Original now (playing normally) and cleared my first run with Type III in a while. I love that scope sight for survival, especially against the EX bosses.

xxx1993 · Joined: 05 May 2014 Posts: 1810

The Arrange Mode is certainly harder than the other versions... But I gotta admit it has one killer soundtrack.

BloodHawk · Joined: 30 Jul 2020 Posts: 28

Has anyone heard any news regarding the Steam release/update lately? I know Degica announced "a Steam update sometime thereafter" the Switch release but that was back in October and I haven't heard anything since.

And I know this is a long shot, but a GOG release/update would be amazing too :wink:

DietSoap · Joined: 29 Jul 2010 Posts: 188

BloodHawk wrote:

Has anyone heard any news regarding the Steam release/update lately? I know Degica announced "a Steam update sometime thereafter" the Switch release but that was back in October and I haven't heard anything since.

And I know this is a long shot, but a GOG release/update would be amazing too :wink:

If it's a 6 month exclusivity deal like Panzer Dragoon Remake seemed to be (imo), we're probably looking at a late April or early May release. Just speculation, of course.

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Crimzon Clover World Explosion (Switch)

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