Andro Dunos 2

[BIL]

The Picorinne guys don't know how to code, so they make their STGs with a tool, although I forget which one it is.

Aw, that's adorable. Brings to mind great musicians who don't read notation. I've never played the PC version, but I'm glad it seems to have translated over closely enough, judging by videos and input response. This and Natsuki Chronicles have some of the most pinpoint-accurate handling I've seen in a hori STG.

[kid aphex]

The Picorinne guys don't know how to code, so they make their STGs with a tool, although I forget which one it is. This is why they don't do multiplayer, online leaderboards, or video options like forcing integer scaling in fullscreen, as the tool doesn't support any of that. Native resolution on Andro Dunos II is 320x240, so if you use a 1080 vertical resolution you will have a distorted image with shimmering due to incorrect scaling.

I think the tool also only supports Windows, so they get someone else (PixelHeart/JoshProd, in this case) to do the console versions for them.

That makes a lot of sense. Some of the flaws that showed up in this game felt like flaws in a ‘wrapper’, not flaws in some foundational code.

[Johnpv]

I pre-ordered 1 and 2 for dreamcast in the same order, so still no copies for me. Though I've tried cancelling my order a few times but the PixelHeart EU people seemingly ignore their customers. They claim its actually going to release soon so maybe it won't be money thrown down a drain.

[To Far Away Times]

As much as I hate to say it, any game made in a wrapper should never be more than a few bucks. If I made my own, in a wrapper, it'd definitely be less than $5.

[To Far Away Times]

The Picorinne guys don't know how to code, so they make their STGs with a tool, although I forget which one it is.

Aw, that's adorable. Brings to mind great musicians who don't read notation.

Sorry for the double post, but one thing that springs to mind is how little reading music means to being a musician. I can read music decently. I would trade this 100 times out of 100 to have Paul McCartney's ear for bass lines and chord leading.

Reading music ain't shit.

You don't even have to be technically brilliant, you just have to find the best pieces that fit which the beatles were world class at.

So Paul is a world class bass player, despite the relative simplicity, because the bass lines are so perfect for the songs.

[Steven]

As much as I hate to say it, any game made in a wrapper should never be more than a few bucks. If I made my own, in a wrapper, it'd definitely be less than $5.

You can blame PixelHeart/JoshProd for that, as all of Picorinne Soft's other games are either free or in the 800~1000 yen range.

I found out what software they are apparently using, too: Shooting Game Builder.

[Creamy Goodness]

Damn hearing this game was built with a tool is a bit disappointing. Makes me regret a bit shelling out for the physical.

[Steven]

This game is good, though...

Of course, it would be a lot better if they actually shipped my Dreamcast copy. I REALLY hope that one turns out okay after the no-effort bad emulator + ROM-on-a-disc Dreamcast Andro Dunos.

Well, I just checked out the 3DS version, and...

"60FPS? Nobody gives a fuck about that! 25~30-ish is fine, so let's do that. Nobody gives a fuck about the game's proper aspect ratio, either, so let's just stretch the game to fill the screen! Shimmering artifacts everywhere, but fuck everyone who cares about this game looking and running the way it's supposed to!" - the devs, apparently

[BIL]

Well, I just checked out the 3DS version, and...

"60FPS? Nobody gives a fuck about that! 25~30-ish is fine, so let's do that. Nobody gives a fuck about the game's proper aspect ratio, either, so let's just stretch the game to fill the screen! Shimmering artifacts everywhere, but fuck everyone who cares about this game looking and running the way it's supposed to!" - the devs, apparently

Fucking hell. Now I'm really happy the PS4 version turned out well. This game's excellent.

Honestly, I'd buy a masterfully-done STG made in friggin Dezaemon over some godawful Sine Mora euroshite any day. Actually, you would need to pay me to play the latter.

[Kollision]

I pre-ordered 1 and 2 for dreamcast in the same order, so still no copies for me. Though I've tried cancelling my order a few times but the PixelHeart EU people seemingly ignore their customers. They claim its actually going to release soon so maybe it won't be money thrown down a drain.

I lost my patience with them a month ago.
I cancelled AD 2 for the Dreamcast from my joint order with the PS4 version with no hassle at all.

[Steven]

Well, I just checked out the 3DS version, and...

"60FPS? Nobody gives a fuck about that! 25~30-ish is fine, so let's do that. Nobody gives a fuck about the game's proper aspect ratio, either, so let's just stretch the game to fill the screen! Shimmering artifacts everywhere, but fuck everyone who cares about this game looking and running the way it's supposed to!" - the devs, apparently

Fucking hell. Now I'm really happy the PS4 version turned out well. This game's excellent.

Honestly, I'd buy a masterfully-done STG made in friggin Dezaemon over some godawful Sine Mora euroshite any day. Actually, you would need to pay me to play the latter.

Yeah, it's really disappointing. Super Smash Bros runs at 60FPS on the same hardware with the 3D slider at max. There are no excuses, just incompetence.

[Johnpv]

I pre-ordered 1 and 2 for dreamcast in the same order, so still no copies for me. Though I've tried cancelling my order a few times but the PixelHeart EU people seemingly ignore their customers. They claim its actually going to release soon so maybe it won't be money thrown down a drain.

I lost my patience with them a month ago.
I cancelled AD 2 for the Dreamcast from my joint order with the PS4 version with no hassle at all.

You're lucky you got a response from them. I seemingly forgot my password for their site, and the recovery email never actually goes out (yeah I've checked my spam filter). I've emailed them, sent dms, and regular tweets on twitter and just get ignored by them constantly. I can tell you I will never buy anything from PixelHeart ever again.

[Steven]

Oh damn, I just realized that the 3DS is probably significantly more powerful than the Dreamcast. I'm worried about the Dreamcast version now. I really hope they don't fuck it up. This is a nice game and it deserves way better than some broken gimmick ports.

[StrzxgvNuvWvfld]

As much as I hate to say it, any game made in a wrapper should never be more than a few bucks. If I made my own, in a wrapper, it'd definitely be less than $5.

I can't find what engine the game is using at the minute, but what do we even mean by a "wrapper"? Keeping the logic code as it is while replacing the input/output for the new taget platform? Isn't that essentially how every multiplatform title works?

I do worry we'll end up with a really sloppy Dreamcast port though, which would be a shame as done right it would be great.

[cfx]

As much as I hate to say it, any game made in a wrapper should never be more than a few bucks. If I made my own, in a wrapper, it'd definitely be less than $5.

I get your point, but how is this functionally different than games running in emulators really?

Do you also think M2 Shot Triggers or Hamster Arcade Archives should only be $5 as well?

[pulsemod]

any game made in Unity or Unreal Engine should be a couple of bucks budget title. absolute lazy devs.

sure, there's downsides to using pre-existing game engines (see UE latency issues, or of course issues that have come up with the ports of this game), but that's such a bizarrely overgeneralizing statement when the overall basis of game development has already changed for most of the world

[cfx]

any game made in Unity or Unreal Engine should be a couple of bucks budget title. absolute lazy devs.

sure, there's downsides to using pre-existing game engines (see UE latency issues, or of course issues that have come up with the ports of this game), but that's such a bizarrely overgeneralizing statement when the overall basis of game development has already changed for most of the world

Indeed.

And in the other extreme, if a multi-platform title was programmed "to the metal" for each platform, then it's likely going to have specific quirks and bugs unique to each version because of no common code base at all. It's also far more work likely leading to more games only being on single platforms.

[bigbadboaz]

The bottom line is, a good game is a good game.

In terms of respecting the type of work a dev has done, maybe the tools utilized make a difference. But this has zero to do with the state of the end product and how much fun you may or may not be having with it.

When you're playing a shmup, are you thinking about how exactly the dev placed each enemy pattern, or are you blasting away and getting in the freakin' zone!?

[To Far Away Times]

As much as I hate to say it, any game made in a wrapper should never be more than a few bucks. If I made my own, in a wrapper, it'd definitely be less than $5.

I get your point, but how is this functionally different than games running in emulators really?

Do you also think M2 Shot Triggers or Hamster Arcade Archives should only be $5 as well?

As much as I hate to say it, any game made in a wrapper should never be more than a few bucks. If I made my own, in a wrapper, it'd definitely be less than $5.

I can't find what engine the game is using at the minute, but what do we even mean by a "wrapper"? Keeping the logic code as it is while replacing the input/output for the new taget platform? Isn't that essentially how every multiplatform title works?

The idea is that if you are making a game with no coding, you're going to be severely limited by what you're allowed to do by the engine. Does every game made in that engine have to have the same type of options, for example? The lack of scan lines is a pretty glaring omission from the game, and likely wasn't included not because the developers didn't want it, but because they didn't know how. That sort of thing. Comes across as a bit amateurish. Worth a few bucks maybe, but it shouldn't be priced near CAVE levels.


The high effort M2 ports have lots of extra features put into them and M2 is seemingly able to take the ports in any direction they want, adding in gadgets, new soundtracks, arrange modes, 3D modes for 3DS games, etc... the way the ports are customized for the games and the features added in are huge selling points. There will very likely never be better ways to play these games than what we have right now. Even the almighty Retroarch will never be this good.

Hamster's "rom in a no frills emulator" packages are ok. They're bare bones, but they play well and are priced pretty cheap.

[BIL]

So I was chilling with my bros enjoying this killer early 90s throwback STG But then, I found it was lovingly assembled not in TRV£ 1337 C0D3, but STG MAKER 9000, and said YUUUCK!

I feel like I've been fucked right in the mouth!

Hamster's "rom in a no frills emulator" packages are ok. They're bare bones, but they play well and are priced pretty cheap.

I wouldn't describe ACA as such, given their quality control. They've been consistently fixing MAME's (and on at least one occasion even M2's) screwups for going on a decade now. Task Force Harrier's ship speed is boned in MAME, Metal Hawk has random crashes, Omega Fighter's zako were boned until shortly after the ACA release, nobody else including M2 bothered to accurately emulate Contra's 3D stages until the ACA release... OG Zero Team has been unplayable forever, and Jigoku Meguri - out today in Japan - is apparently a hacked-together mess. In MAME.

There's also stuff like the LS-30 games (Ikari et al), whose rotary controls are absolutely god-awful in MAME, and broken in shoddy work like SNK 40th and whatever those Super Value Fun Tyme DECO releases are. Plus the custom autofire setups on stuff like ImageFight, X-Multiply, Gun Frontier and Phelios, and underratedly useful QOL tweaks like 1P/2P side-switch in Raiden and Thunder Dragon 2 etc, Gunnail's alarm disable, Libble Rabble letting you divide the controls across two devices for twinstick play... they're also sticklers on input latency, something seemingly every other emulation specialist besides M2 either struggles with, or flat-out doesn't give a shit about.

They're not super-boutique ala M2, hence the fractional price, more esoteric selection, and vastly higher release frequency, but they're every bit as fastidious about giving these games definitive home releases, no matter how obscure they might be. I wish the notion of a developer taking pride in their work wasn't so unusual as to need pointing out, but them's the breaks nowadays.

[Steven]

Finally got the 1CC on this game. Yeah, it sure took a while...

This is a very nice little game, though. Switch version is good, I take it? I might pick it up there for handheld mode since the 3DS version is completely broken and it's cheaper than buying a Steam Deck.

When you're playing a shmup, are you thinking about how exactly the dev placed each enemy pattern, or are you blasting away and getting in the freakin' zone!?

Recently, mostly thinking about how the dev placed each enemy pattern. Spoilers:

Spoiler

Yes, I'm thinking about making my own shooting game. Whether or not it will actually happen is currently unknown, so don't count on it, but I've been thinking about it for a while.

[cfx]

The idea is that if you are making a game with no coding, you're going to be severely limited by what you're allowed to do by the engine. Does every game made in that engine have to have the same type of options, for example? The lack of scan lines is a pretty glaring omission from the game, and likely wasn't included not because the developers didn't want it, but because they didn't know how. That sort of thing. Comes across as a bit amateurish. Worth a few bucks maybe, but it shouldn't be priced near CAVE levels.

I think that blanketly saying "any game made in a wrapper should never be more than a few bucks" is being reductive about it and offensive to those who get good results using such tools.

I've seen images and reviews of a lot of those RPGMaker games. Many of them are low effort and all look the same because they use whatever assets are either part of the tool itself or library type stuff supplied by others. I've also seen games made with the tool that you'd never expect were made with it.

Thunder Force VI is a buggy mess of a game that doesn't deserve the name, but it wasn't made with any kind of tool, as far as I'm aware. The same can be said for many other poorly-regarded games like the PC Engine's Deep Blue.

There are good games made with tools, and bad ones made without. Pre-judging games based on how they were made seems a poor way to judge their quality.

I haven't played Andro Dunos II, and don't know anything about the tool it was made with. If the game doens't have scanline options I'd consider that a turn-off as well. The original statement dismissing all games made with wrappers extends far beyond Andro Dunos II though.

[Despatche]

I feel like nobody in this thread has any idea what Shooting Game Builder actually is, yet they're making all these crazy claims about it. Here, let me shill the website. A lot of people here should be looking at this program.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Picked this up during the sale, 13.2 hours to get the 1CC. Awesome game. Excellently designed, balanced weapon switching is lots of fun to learn, as is getting all 30 items per stage. Lots of positive buzz surrounding this game, great reviews and superplays all over the place. Nobody anywhere noticed the brilliant soundtrack was by Allister Brimble.

[Darkseed_5150]

Finally got this for PS5 on sale. Definitely a step up for Picorrine although I don’t see their name anywhere on the intro splash screens. Love the gameplay and music. I do t care what app they used to develop it. Bring on your next game!

[BulletMagnet]

Currently two thirds off on Steam as well, just picked it up myself.

[To Far Away Times]

As much as I hate to say it, any game made in a wrapper should never be more than a few bucks. If I made my own, in a wrapper, it'd definitely be less than $5.

[Jeneki]

Heck yeah do it! This game is great.

[XoPachi]

The Picorinne guys don't know how to code, so they make their STGs with a tool, although I forget which one it is. This is why they don't do multiplayer, online leaderboards, or video options like forcing integer scaling in fullscreen, as the tool doesn't support any of that. Native resolution on Andro Dunos II is 320x240, so if you use a 1080 vertical resolution you will have a distorted image with shimmering due to incorrect scaling.

I think the tool also only supports Windows, so they get someone else (PixelHeart/JoshProd, in this case) to do the console versions for them.

This is interesting considering they also made Disc Creatures which was a pretty smart and enjoyable RPG based on Pokemon Red. I wonder how that game was handled.

Heck yeah do it! This game is great.

He's right. I'd have paid more myself personally. Great game.

[Nahar]

Go and upload some scores in the thread. This game deserves more love.